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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Ocean Spray Posted - Jan 10 2008 : 20:21:10
My cockpit refrigerater goes out.
50   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Ocean Spray Posted - Jan 17 2008 : 19:42:34
To answer your question Pascal, no, I have experimented at all rpms and set the tabs everywhere. The best cruise I get is still at 4,050 rpms, at 18 to 20 knotts. Any slower and she seams to burn more fuel. Someone else asked me about props, they were just changed and it made it much better for top end. My WOT is 4900 to 5000 rpm (screaming!) but the manufacturer is stating that these newer engines run in that rpm range and will get better fuel consumption. All I know is that this is "my" sweat spot and I will run her there everytime. I could go a little slower, but she does not burn much less fuel, maybe around a gallon or two if your lucky, I keep an eye on my fuel flow meter all the time.

walterv Posted - Jan 17 2008 : 18:14:29
quote:
Originally posted by Ocean Spray

I have found my "cruise speed" at around 4050 rpm at 18.5 to 19.7 knotts depending on sea conditions. Burns around 34 to 38 gph.



To give you a comparison:
I have the 8.1 big block Crusader Motors.
Best cruise for the boat is 3500rpm, with a speed of 21 knots, and a fuel burn of 29 to 34GPH.

WOT, is 4300 rpm, 26 to 28 knots and a fuel burn of 66GPH.

With my motors (Crusader) recommended cruise is 80% of max rpm my motors are rated at 4400 rpm WOT.

I had to fine tune my props to achieve "max rpm", you may want to check to see if you are achieving the specs Merc. says your motors are suppose to be.

Walter

Walter
RamSport47 Posted - Jan 17 2008 : 16:56:25
Have you REALLY compared Meridan to others? Look at the floor supporting. Wood supported by palstic...YIKES. There are brands out there that actually use some structural materials to support their flooring, like aluminum framing with stainless steel supports. Also...check out that wiring...tie wrapped and screwed every 6 to 8 inches, all exposed, instead of being cleanly run in a wire trough. And stringers...wood? really? in 2008? Others can make woodless fiberglass only stringers, why can't Meridian? Yes, Cruiser Yachts sold it's plant to Bayliner (not Meridian) Because they were having trouble with the work force available. Cruisers Yachts was building Rampage Sport fishing boats there, and some of it's larger yachts. Cruisers sales are not down, they have been holding steady. They have cut down the number of models they build, which gives them excess capacity at their home location in Wisconsin.
CARVER88 Posted - Jan 17 2008 : 16:17:29
TO Ramsport: Can you tell the world why the Meridians competition still tells customers that the Meridians are Bayliners? maybe because they are reaching for anything to gain sales they have lost to a more aggresive and better built boat. Meridian sales have increased on average 25% every year so far, and have recently purchased a manufacturing plant from the competition that is losing sales. It is a shame that some dealers do that, and i do not agree with it. Be honest about your product and let the customer make a fair and accurate decision on his or boat buying, that is what sales is about in any industry.
PascalG Posted - Jan 17 2008 : 12:15:09
"to similar boats" of that vintage, right ? not current models ? interesting...i dont' have the old brochures for the other boats unfortunately.


of course no flow meter will tell you what to do... duh... but combined with accurate speed info from the GPS you can find the best speed for the conditions and load. from what i remember, keeping between 1/2 and 3/4 tabs down at cruise, yielded about an extra knot. when running at faster speed, reducing tabs would be needed to maximize speed.

to get or keep the boat on plane at the lowest possible speed, i'd use full tabs... i dont' remember the exact speed, but with full tabs and 3200 i coudl keep it on plane (average load) aroudn 16kts. again you need to use all the available data to optimize performance. this is why i mentioned this in this thread in the first place... it can be easy for someone with a new boat to run it at the wrong speed and get lousy economy. look at how many boats you see out there dragging their stern deep in the water, bow high in the sky...

i dont' have the spec sheets from Maxum anymore ... i had to call them to get them faxed over before i decided between the engine options but i remember that the 380hp version had about 20% less range... was it because the cruise speed was faster ? possible... because indeed if you need 500hp to push a boat a 20kts, it doens't really matter if you're producing the 500hp from 620hp total or 760hp. the difference will be that the larger engines will give you a higher cruise speed, using more power, therefore more fuel, reducing range. Now if you're comparing the same boat at the same cruise speed with larger engines, range should be more or less the same.

in any case, the point to this thread is that one needs to find the right speed, tabs, etc... to get the most out of a boat.
SLW Posted - Jan 17 2008 : 11:51:57
I wouldn't be surprised if the label came from the legal department, not the engineering dept.

Pascal, as to fuel meters, those conditions change and inter-relate. Since no meter I've ever seen has a light that says "lift your tabs and go faster!", the operator still has to experiment. I compared the specs of a 37 Maxum to similar boats, and sure enough, it's flatter than most peers. The Regal is slightly steeper, the Bayliner more still and a 370DA has 5 degrees on it!

Earlier you stated that engine size doesn't relate to economy, but then said the 380HP version reduced range. There's no way that a 37 would return UNDER .5 mpg under standard conditions.
MichaelNJ Posted - Jan 17 2008 : 11:11:01
It raises the center of gravity. I've had more than that with no problems. There is seating for sever which would be way more than 750 pounds. Every label on a boat is CYA. I think you would have to have a lot of weight up there before you saw stability problems. I can't see the boat capsizing.
PascalG Posted - Jan 17 2008 : 10:56:04
750 lbs ? that's not much, only 4 adults... did the bean counters try to save a few yard of glass and a couple of gallons of resin ? i guess more than that and support will start flexing resulting in leaky windows.

4050 seems pretty high for those speeds, what's the WOT rpm on those engines ? have you tried experimenting with tabs ? weight distribution ? too much weight aft maybe ?
RamSport47 Posted - Jan 17 2008 : 09:13:42
I have another thought...Can anyone tell me why the 341 and 391 have weight limits on their flybridges? Of like only 750lbs with gear and people? Sea Ray does this too. Their $425,000 36 foot sedan bridge also has a weight limit of 750lbs...why? Topheavy?
RamSport47 Posted - Jan 17 2008 : 08:57:15
And to think...Marine Max is bashing other brands and dealers at our boat show. Sounds like an inferior dealership if you have to bash others to make yours look good. I hope you're reading this MM corporate office. Poor sales practices.
parkrode360 Posted - Jan 17 2008 : 08:43:11
Ocean Spray, that still seems a higher RPM for those speeds -- I know of one or two other Meridian owners that have had their props changed -- maybe that might help? No sense burning fuel if you don't need to!
Ocean Spray Posted - Jan 16 2008 : 21:26:00
I have found my "cruise speed" at around 4050 rpm at 18.5 to 19.7 knotts depending on sea conditions. Burns around 34 to 38 gph. Anything slower and she does not feel right, not at sweet spot. I can deal with the fuel consumption, I have learned to accept it for what it is, we pick and choose our trips carefully to maximize our enjoyment of the boat.

PascalG Posted - Jan 16 2008 : 19:19:00
top speed with the 310hp 7.4 was was 30kts average load at about 4200 RPM. I usually cruised at 3600 which gave 20kts.

i looked up the specs, it is actually listed as 20700 lbs on the brochure... so heavier than i remembered. Deadrise was 15 deg. from what i recall, the boats of that vintage i looked at where lighter and flatter... Regal 42, Bayliner Avanti, Searay, etc... i dont' have the specs for all these 98 vintage boats.

as to floscan, they do help you find the best cruise under current conditions... load, wind, etc... isn't that the point ? they were dead on, within 1% when filling up.

about the motors, the performance remained the same over the 5 years i kept it, 20kts at 3600 and 30 kts at 4200 wot, and was on target to what the specs i got from maxum when trying to decide if the larger engines were worth it or not. I didn't think it was worth it... even with 6 or 8 adults on board, the boat never felt underpowered, never had issues getting on plane. the big thing was the range.. the larger motors (380hp) had much less range than the 7.4s... 20% less from what i recalled.

Kuredu Posted - Jan 16 2008 : 17:38:45
Amen.
CARVER88 Posted - Jan 16 2008 : 16:27:22
the bottom line is simply, this is one person and one boat with problems. meridian has sold alot of boats since they arrived on the scene. if all boats,cars,planes,motorhomes,trailers and appliances were all perfect we would never see a service department, but alas, nothing is perfect. you can all beat this to death , but the bottom line is, it will be fixed and this issue with 1 boat and 1 customer will be over. this is a fine product for the money and will be for years to come, and yes, there will still be service departments out there, because one just may have a problem.
SLW Posted - Jan 16 2008 : 11:09:38
I know I'm beating a dead horse here, as you sold that boat long ago, but since this is a Maxum forum as well, it's probably worth discussing...

20 kts is better: more like .62 MPG, but spinning 3600, those boys didn't have much more to give you. Still doesn't sound right.

A 37 Maxum actually has LESS deadrise than many of its peers. Floscans are great, but they can only pinpoint "best cruise" under the current conditions. That's to say if the props are mis-matched, or the bottom is dirty, the tabs aren't properly set or the engines have an issue, all bets are off.

The RPMS don't concern me, either does that slow speed, nor the high consumption. It IS a big gas boat after all, but put them all together though, and Houston, we have a problem.
PascalG Posted - Jan 16 2008 : 09:32:36
SLW,

i had floscans and that was the best cruise speed, around 3600rpm. that boat was pretty heavy for a 37 footer, 19k lbs and had more deadrise than average resulting in a great ride but at price. it also had a higher profile than most express that size. All that makes a difference. I knew that going in though, to me the ride was more important worth a couple of knots and gallons.

I said 18 to 20 but i woudl usually get a solid 20kts at 3600 and 35gph. at 18 it was more like 3400 and 32gph.

I think Walter summed it up best. you have a good boat, is it the best out there ? no... but a good boat with a good layout. unfortunately, the dealer is ruining the experience.
RamSport47 Posted - Jan 16 2008 : 08:39:10
Any new gas engine runs best and will get your best economy at 3800RPM...that's just how new engines are engineered. Anything over that RPM, and you're going to be filling up more often than you have to, without a noticable improvement in speed.
wrkalot Posted - Jan 16 2008 : 08:14:57
No one listens to me but I'll say it again anyway, the sweet spot for the 341 w/ 6.2's is in the 3800 RPM range (give or take a few). You will do your wallet well to back off that 4100 by a couple hundred RPMs.
walterv Posted - Jan 15 2008 : 22:51:31
Patrick,
Don't get down on yourself for your purchase, the boat is a nice boat and if you were not having bad dealer problems, you would be happy and posting good things about your boat.

Hogan is right about the big block VS small block gig for a boat this size and weight. When I bought my Silverton in 2004, I posted on this site to ask if it was worth the 12k to upgrade from small to big blocks, almost every post told me it was a no brainier. I never got the "torque" thing until it was explained to me, I am sorry I did not ask about diesel.

Bottom line here is you need to get this fixed and move on, do a full court press and get this resolved, there are many owners of this boat that are satisfied, you should become one of those.

Donít forget why you bought this boat, great layout, nice appointments, great looking boat, very comfortable, and a great value compared to anything else in this class. This boat is a good boat, perfect, No, but what boat is perfect.

Walter
SLW Posted - Jan 15 2008 : 22:46:10
Those numbers don't sound right Pascal. How did you settle on 18-20 and 3/4 tab? By my calculations you were averaging .6 mpg. My long-term average is .72 at 24 knots in a similar (slightly larger) boat.
HOGAN Posted - Jan 15 2008 : 22:28:54
Those small blocks are going to burn out a lot faster than the big blocks. Just think how much harder they have to work to produce the same HP.

Valuable lesson here about being "caught up in the moment at a boat show"

I liked Meridians from the first moment I saw one, reading this thread would cause me to look a lot more closely at other boats that don't, and I certainly would NEVER deal with MM!
PascalG Posted - Jan 15 2008 : 21:46:59
small block or big block doens't make a big difference... you have a tall boat with a lot of windage... if it take 400hp to push it at X kts, the type of motor is not going to make a huge difference. it take X gallons of fuel to generate X hp.

the only thing that will help, is diesel or maybe finding the best speed. do you have flow meters ? that woudl help. make sure you run the boat fully on plane, maybe with trim tabs down. My previous boat was a 37 express with 310hp injected 7.4s. best cruise was around 18 to 20kts, with probably 3/4 trim tabs. i'd burn about 35gph total at that speed. without the windage of flybridge.

and obviously, make sure the bottom anb running gear is clean. a few barnacles on the props will kill you... you can easily loose 20% economy.
Ocean Spray Posted - Jan 15 2008 : 20:11:20
True! I never said it was a smart buy for me.
PascalG Posted - Jan 15 2008 : 14:11:02
no, i disagree. boats dont' have to come with a punch list, at least not a long one and it should be resolved quickly. Cars dont come with a punch list... and dont' tell me it's because boats are complex and hand made, it's because car mnaufacturer and dealers believe in quality checks and controls.

it's also becasue boat buyers accept to be treated like this. IF you do a sea trial and pre delivery inspection and find a number of issues, why do so many accept to close without the issues to be resolved first ?

i dont' think i can agree with blaming the dealer for not warning you about gas mileage... you shoudl have asked and done some research. it's like going to buy a big house and not wondering how much you air con or heating bill is going to be !
Ocean Spray Posted - Jan 15 2008 : 13:54:15
Tada! You hit the nail on the head Circaburns,
circaburns Posted - Jan 15 2008 : 10:11:55
Patrick; when are you going to be ready to love you boat? Are you still having problems or have they been resolved. I have owned all sorts of boats for about 35 years - all purchased new - and they all have problems. I don't know why but they do. They aren't cars built on robotic assembly lines. They are unfortunately all individual. Boat manufacturers are getting better anbd better. Brunswick is one of the best by virtue of their size. They have some fantastic brands. I think based on price versus quality, the Meridian product is a darn good mix of both. I have friends who have new Cabo's, Hatteras' and USA Bertram's. They ALL have teething issues. The difference is the dealer. Pure and simple. Good dealer you're happy. Bad dealer your not.
DeeVee Posted - Jan 15 2008 : 06:35:24
I have my eyes(and $$$) on this 341 for couple of years, I like the style and the lay out and pretty much going to talk to MM at this Atlantic Boatshow up coming but, after reading this and other posts from Ocean Spray, I'm not sure if I want to spend the money and get into this kinda trouble especially the "blackmail" part.
Ocean Spray Posted - Jan 14 2008 : 22:42:59
Wow, I wasn't expecting that! LOL!
Equanimity Posted - Jan 14 2008 : 16:07:12
I must say that I also found the Merdians at the boat show appealing in looks and layout. But, that was as far as I got, I didn't poke around too deeply as I wasn't seriously looking.

The more I hear the more I lose faith in just about every (affordable to me) brand. Trying to match whatever brand you feel comfortable with to a decent dealer seems pretty near IMPOSSIBLE.

I was hot to buy not all that long ago but that has gone cold (if not frigid). I've experienced the crappy dealers and the nagging few new boat punch list items that never "really" got resolved on my last two boats. I still get excited looking at boats and I love boating but when I think of going through what others have or repeating my past I actually get bummed out.

I guess my post here is more of my own feeling of disappointment with the state of boat buying and service. Way back when, I was one of those surveyed for what became the "Marine Industry Certification Program". I was hopeful that things might be changing for the better, not so sure now. I do see the blue circle logo posted here and there but the stories keep coming.

I want to feel good about my love for boats and boating again!
Captain Buddha Posted - Jan 14 2008 : 14:49:54
I hope this thread makes it way back to MM/Meridian (maybe to someone higher up the chain who will "have a talking to" to the folks who need to have their attitude adjusted)...especially as Meridian is something to consider in a future purchase...I personally like the boats, only have checked them out at at the boat show, have not been on one on the water.
Robyns Nest Posted - Jan 14 2008 : 14:18:07
quote:
Originally posted by Gregory Saracco

So Oceanspray is being blackmailed to keep his mouth shut or he'll have more "problems" with his boat?




That's the way I'm reading this.

MM isn't happy with Oceanspray's posts over MMax's crappy service?????

Get real here.

These guys over at Marine Max better get with the program and understand that their 'customers' have every right to publicly complain if they disagree with the quality of the service or product they receive.

This blows my mind that MM is doing this. Bad enough the service was bad but to tell their customer to cut it out....

They should be sending pastries down to your dock and kissing your a$$.....not the other way around.




Captain Buddha Posted - Jan 14 2008 : 12:51:34
Wow - the fact that MM "wants you to tone it down a bit" speaks VOLUMES!! Their response SHOULD be "Hey - we are ON this, we are FIXING this, please also let your internet boat buds KNOW about this - we want long-term customers!" That would be the easy way to make proverbial lemonade out of boat lemons....
TJM Posted - Jan 14 2008 : 09:42:54
Interesting. I was at the NY boat show over New Years and was looking heavy at the Meridians. Maybe I will "look" a little more. They presented very well.
Gregory S Posted - Jan 13 2008 : 09:22:14
So Oceanspray is being blackmailed to keep his mouth shut or he'll have more "problems" with his boat?
RamSport47 Posted - Jan 13 2008 : 08:49:08
I work for a dealer and I definately read these posts. I take what I read back to the dealer principles and, believe me...we don't have and don't want any "Patricks". I feel for Patrick as it should be MMs responsibility to resolve any shortcomings that Meridian may have...that's why they have a service department. If they can't figure a problem out, maybe they should send their techs for some schooling. Now, maybe we deal with exemplary (sp?) manufacturers, but ours are always really helpful if we need them to help solve a problem.
walterv Posted - Jan 12 2008 : 15:20:44
The problem Patrick is having is not just a Brunswick, Meridian, Marine Max problem; it is an industry wide problem. On the SOC (Silverton owners site) one of the members bought a new 38C in 04 or 05, let me just say that your problems Patrick are no where as bad as his. The dealer and Silverton eventually stepped up to the plate, but had to be really pushed and threatened to do so.

We all know that sh-t happens and sometimes manufactures mess up, the key to mess up is how quickly and painlessly they resolve the problem.
Bliss Posted - Jan 12 2008 : 11:25:13
PascalG presents the best argument for buying used boats from caring owners. Yes, there will be problems but, blah, blah blah. You know the rest.
PascalG Posted - Jan 12 2008 : 11:10:29
let me get this straight.

You buy a new boat from the largest builder through the biggest dealer.

They expect you to fork over a check for... 300k, 400k... then expect your to kiss their behinds, accept a boat which has a number of problem they can't solve, and bribe them with pastries so that they address the problems you are having with a brand new boat ?

And to top it off, they want you to be quiet about the problems ?

you're kidding right ?

dont answer that last... we know you're not.

tell you what, I hope builders and dealers read posts on the internet and if you browse other sites you wil find dozens of horror stories like these.

Ocean Spray Posted - Jan 12 2008 : 10:27:46
I have mentioned this before and I wil say it again, Ocean Spray II
KiDa Posted - Jan 11 2008 : 21:15:27
quote:
Originally posted by Bliss

Ocean Spray, "they asked me to tone it down a bit". Which "they"? This is important stuff.Please be specific. Thank you.



See Walters post above.
walterv Posted - Jan 11 2008 : 19:43:01
quote:
Originally posted by Ghost

good point guys, prolly the dealer idiot. Completely mickey mouse stuff though.



What bothers me Ghost is the fact that the dealer jury rigged the fridge to move the boat out the door, now that speaks volumes about the dealer.

Walter
Bliss Posted - Jan 11 2008 : 19:17:22
Ocean Spray, "they asked me to tone it down a bit". Which "they"? This is important stuff.Please be specific. Thank you.
Ghost Posted - Jan 11 2008 : 19:08:47
good point guys, prolly the dealer idiot. Completely mickey mouse stuff though.
walterv Posted - Jan 11 2008 : 16:37:23
If my boat (Silverton) was transported over land, the bridge comes off and put back on at the dealer.
Since Meridian is manufactured in WA, I would assume the bridge was put on at the dealer.

Walter
wrkalot Posted - Jan 11 2008 : 16:25:16
I thought on the 341 that the bridge is assembled at the factory, only the arch is assembled by the yard monkey? I could be wrong though... as usual.

I agree with pascal. Our 2002 Maxum 3500 had to have an engine replaced because of water intrusion. Not the dealers fault or the factory, it's was merc and they paid for it. Now why/how we got 1996 prototype 6.2 engines in a new 2002 Maxum I'll never know.
PascalG Posted - Jan 11 2008 : 15:55:12
in all fairness... If the flybridge was assembled locally, the builder isnt' to blame (except for not ensuring the dealers know what they are doing). it's a dealer issue.

same with an oil leak... it's not meridian, it's mercruiser.

a lot of stuff is done by dealers, predelivery. including fittign props, rudders, batteries, radar arch, electronics, etc... this is why dealers are so critical in the boat buying process.
Ocean Spray Posted - Jan 11 2008 : 15:39:27
Waletrv,
I have read your post regarding a "complaint department" to send off to the dealers.
Ocean Spray Posted - Jan 11 2008 : 15:33:06
Kida.....wishfull thinking! LOL!
walterv Posted - Jan 10 2008 : 23:46:13
Support me here:

http://www.boatered.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=110367

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