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 Meridian Yachts, the good, bad and ugly.........

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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Ocean Spray Posted - Jun 21 2011 : 19:17:31
Hey All,

50   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Billylll Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 08:17:42
I think it's best we let this thread die. Captain Pat posted a great explanation on his state of mind, the events leading up to his life changing. He seems like a good guy who just fell on hard times.
I will be the 1st to say my initial opinion of him has changed. Go to the Carver section and read his last posts if you have a genuine interest of what transpired.
Bill
mariner36 Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 07:34:56
I would still love to know if these boat loans use straight compounding interest, or are the loans amortized?

Also, how would taking a boat loan help you avoid the AMT?
Audrey II Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 18:07:31
Billylll Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 07:07:58
More Popcorn please............
Bill
rbmitchell Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 05:08:30
Love the thread. Reminds me of my father's frequent admonition to me. I forget the whole thing but it ends "...are soon parted."
alexander38 Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 20:59:44
sell the 12k watch and make some payments....
suwanneered Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 18:21:28
Well I don't know anything about your boating troubles however if the bank loaned you say 10,00.00 to buy the boat and you trashed it and they had to repo it and sold it for 2,000.00 you will be responsible for the difference.They can and will probably sue and get judgement against you for the balance with interest.If you couldn't pay for the boat you should have detailed it and returned it to the lender in as good a condition as you could.I can assure you h one one thing you have not stuck it to the Bank!!
HOGAN Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 17:18:28
quote:
Originally posted by L. Keith

What do you two gain from bringing this post back up?




We got you to post!
alexander38 Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 17:13:07
I don't know but it's a good read.....5k in gas...them's some thirsty big I mean small blocks..
L. Keith Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 14:46:43
What do you two gain from bringing this post back up?
Billylll Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 13:12:28
quote:
Originally posted by HOGAN

quote:

Ocean Spray

RO# 20033

Posted - Nov 14 2009 : 13:53:53
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To make matters worse, National Liquidaters in Ft. Lauderdale took the boat and is bringing the dam boat back to Ft. Lauderdale which is 250 nautical miles from here! What kind of crap is that! Thats gonna cost me about 5 thousand dollars in fuel alone!

Ocean Spray II
Captain Pat





Wait, how did we miss this??? $5000 in fuel to go 250 nautical miles??? Even if fuel was $5/gallon, that would be 1000 gallons! He burns 4 gallons per mile??

Must be using the same pricing as he did for his so-called $12,000 Rolex



Just more BS from the originator of this post Walter. Here is a hink for him my Gold Rolex Presidential cost 50% of the cost of a new one. It works and shines just like the new Rolex.
I like you barely stayed out of AMT in the "good times". One of the reasons was by taking out a loan on my boat when I purchased it. I put 25% down. All of my upgrades were paid for with cash and are to this day. When I saw the housing and financial markets tanking in late 2007 I had a bad feeling so I paid the boat off. I'm glad I did however it took away operating capitol or some of my reserve personal cash so I'm not sure how great an idea it really was? My accountant was livid with me.
Bill
HOGAN Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 08:22:45
quote:

Ocean Spray

RO# 20033

Posted - Nov 14 2009 : 13:53:53
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To make matters worse, National Liquidaters in Ft. Lauderdale took the boat and is bringing the dam boat back to Ft. Lauderdale which is 250 nautical miles from here! What kind of crap is that! Thats gonna cost me about 5 thousand dollars in fuel alone!

Ocean Spray II
Captain Pat





Wait, how did we miss this??? $5000 in fuel to go 250 nautical miles??? Even if fuel was $5/gallon, that would be 1000 gallons! He burns 4 gallons per mile??

Must be using the same pricing as he did for his so-called $12,000 Rolex
booboo Posted - Jun 29 2011 : 08:39:04
Pay cash for toys only
HOGAN Posted - Jun 29 2011 : 07:38:24
quote:
Originally posted by stmbtwle

[quote]Originally posted by MichaelNJ

The problem with buying on credit is that you are "enabled" even ENCOURAGED to buy more than you can afford,


Not if you are a responsible borrower. I don't buy more than I know I can afford, and I use OPM to pay for most of it.
mariner36 Posted - Jun 29 2011 : 07:02:50
when boats are financed, is the interest compounded normally, or is it amortized, like in a mortgage for a house?

If it is amortized, I don't care how much of a deduction you get, you'll never come out ahead.

Plus, with the AMT, how are you writing anything off anyways?
rnbenton Posted - Jun 26 2011 : 14:49:51
quote:
Originally posted by walterv

but for me I hate debt.


+1 and + another 1.

I am as debt averse as a person can be. Car, boat, house, whatever, if I can't pay cash I don't buy it. I sleep much better that way.

Mind you, I'm not putting anyone down for what they decide to do for themselves or how they decide to do it. Just stating what's right for me.

Bob
walterv Posted - Jun 26 2011 : 14:33:25
The depreciation thing is very valid, and I agree. I am and always been the type of guy that when I want it I want it now!!. I mention that because when I bought my boat (2004) it was the first year (anniversary edition), so there were no used ones.

I also agree that when you are financing a boat, it is a lot easier to justify additional equipment,when your in this deep, what's a few hundred bucks more a month. When I bought my boat, I contracted out the generator and all the electronics, bought and installed mos of the electronics myself. The amount saved there was over 16k for what the dealer wanted to charge, of course, that was paid in cash.

"IMO the interest-rate deduction is fools gold, you pay out say $1000 in interest and you get say $200 off your taxes."

Although in some cases and some deals that might be true, but in my case, my tax bracket, my interest rate, this was not true. As mentioned above, my accountant wanted me to put as little down as possible, which of course I did the opposite. From a fiscal standpoint he was correct for that time, numbers don't lie, but for me I hate debt. Keep in mind that depreciation is only a real number if you want to sell, if you keep your boat for a decent duration, that number IMHO is immaterial. I mention this because when I saw this boat I figured this boat meet my present as well as my future needs (it was my 8th "New Boat"), 8 seasons later, unless I went smaller, I figure this was a smart choice and although I ponder to get bigger (which would be used), that deal gets squashed when I see the additional costs.

Also,
Cash is KING, when I bought my boat, I could have paid all cash, actually that was my plan, that as my accountant put it " would be the stupidest move you ever made"

Just My 2C
Estimator Posted - Jun 26 2011 : 08:51:28
quote:
Originally posted by HOGAN

Never underestimate the stupidity of a bank...


LOL...so true. At 60, no debt and fortunate enough to have a decent job and money in the bank, I always chuckle a bit when any of the banks I use as well as through mail, solicit great rates on a 30 year mortgage....yep, would have it paid off at 90.

That said, if a great, and I have a very well defined definition of “great” deal comes along, strategic bowering is usually desirable over not having a large cushion. Today’s great deal still may be tomorrow’s dud.

The eighties taught me the differences between needs\wants as well as tax deductions are only a good deal as long as one has income to use the deductions against in most cases.

Stan
stmbtwle Posted - Jun 26 2011 : 08:08:21
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelNJ

RWS is right. Unless you have a very old boat, depreciation is by far, the biggest expense. In may case it is more than all the other expenses combined. Many people don't view it as an expense because you aren't writing a check for it.


+1

The problem with buying on credit is that you are "enabled" even ENCOURAGED to buy more than you can afford, and if your situation goes south you can be in real trouble. A lot of folks found this out the hard way recently (I know no-one on here has ever fallen into that category).

IMO the interest-rate deduction is fools gold, you pay out say $1000 in interest and you get say $200 off your taxes. You're STILL out $800. Duh! If I had enough resources to buy the boat outright I MIGHT be tempted to take advantage of the low interest rates, knowing I could pay it off any time, but it's still risky as while investments can go down, the boat payments/insurance/slip rent/maintenance/depreciation won't.

Paying cash makes one stop and think, "Do I really want this that much? Is it worth it?" and very often the answer is "No". It's a good reality check.
MichaelNJ Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 23:19:53
RWS is right. Unless you have a very old boat, depreciation is by far, the biggest expense. In may case it is more than all the other expenses combined. Many people don't view it as an expense because you aren't writing a check for it.
RWS Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 21:29:39
Not fuel, not maintenance/repairs, not insurance.

This addition is probably better in a new thread, but I believe that DEPRECIATION is probably the biggest boating expense.

I'm the second owner on my 28 year old boat. I think she was past the bottom of the depreciation curve when we "met" ten years ago.

'course the original owner having her for 18 years and me for 10 says something.

WE'RE ALL CRAZY !

RWS
Double D Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 21:18:45
Same here Walter......... good rule was to NEVER finance the sales tax.....pay that in cash.....thats a dead horse. I bought one new boat in my boating life..........all the rest where used. I didn't like the big first hit on new boats.......Id rather let someone else take it.
walterv Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 20:11:06
When I had 50k or 100k boats, sure, no note. When I bought my present boat, thinking I paid 245k, I took a 190k loan. I did this for a few reasons.

At that time, I got 3.99% interest, at that time, I was able to get 6% if my money was in a CD. If you count my second home deduction the real interest rate (net to me in my tax bracket) was just shy of 2.9%. I also paid the 21k in sales tax out of my pocket. So I did come up with around 76k out of my pocket.
My accountant told me not to put so much down, and finance the most I could. I did not due this even though at that time the numbers looked right.

Fast forward to today, glad I did what I did because I could give my boat away today and walk away without bringing money to the table.

Second reason I did this was I wanted another interested party involved (the bank), as much as I put down, the bank was on the hook for more than me, I liked that!! and IMHO, well worth the 2.9% VIG. (think insurance claim).

Thirdly,
I carry liabilities, my wife holds assets.

Walter
Riverbed Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 20:02:47
quote:
Originally posted by Double D

My boats where all financed........but......I always lived by my rule ....to have at least 50% of what was owed on the boat in the bank as liquid cash..........in the event my golden goose had a stroke !



Count me in with this game plan as well - and it's always good to have something to write off when the tax man comes.
Double D Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 17:07:57
My boats where all financed........but......I always lived by my rule ....to have at least 50% of what was owed on the boat in the bank as liquid cash..........in the event my golden goose had a stroke !

Same now with our motorhome.......its just my way.
KiDa Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 16:37:44
My boat is my second home. It is mortgaged as is my first. The interest is deducted on both. No golden goose in these homes.
jeffk Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 14:59:55
I borrwed to buy my boat. The payment is affordable. I write off the interest. So my cost of borrowing is less than 5%
There also is a liquidity cost to using your own money.
Factoring all this in.. I have no problem with the loan.
It never dawns on me that the bank can take it away if I miss a payment.
I dont intend on missing one.
I never could have had as nice a boat if I paid cash up front.
There is no right or wrong...just your own particular circumstances.
chriscraft67 Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 14:48:11
sorry... pushed the wrong key.

To me, it's the people I meet in boating that makes it all worthwhile. I don't care what kind of boat they have but I do like meeting people that have similar interests.

No one that I know cares that I have a 30 year old boat with soon-to-be-antique engines. We go places together, raft up, have fun and get to know each others' families. Lots of these folks have boats bigger than mine and I guess some borrowed to own them. That's their business. I'm just glad that my investment in boating has allowed me to get to know them.

Right now, I'm sitting on the bridge of my boat typing (not very well) on found-it-on-sale-at-Target netbook, paid for with cash. Life is mortgage-free and good right now. Soon my cockpit and cabin will be full of people for cocktail hour, not because I have the best boat but because today, I have the ice cubes.

Bill
chriscraft67 Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 14:28:01
I'd add another perspective although like others I have never borrowed to buy any of the five boats I've owned. To me it's the people I meet in boating that makes
mrknowitall Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 13:52:17
I didn't mean to imply that others should do it my way... If you want payments on boat, toster or automobile, then have at it. I have a special feeling inside that only comes in play when you know the bank can't take it from you. I think the enjoyment is deeper and more meaning full... or at least that's how i feel. The real cost to this approch is having to work on old boats and the feeling of envy when someone floats by on my dream boat.
mariner36 Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 12:57:25
quote:
Originally posted by HOGAN

quote:
Originally posted by stmbtwle

quote:
Originally posted by mrknowitall

The risk of borrowing money on a depreciating asset is too high for me... if you don't pay cash for it then you can't afford it. IMO


+1



Not necessarily, if you can afford the payments, why would you NOT use someone else's money to pay for it???




Because usually when borrowing money there is interest involved.

Unless you can achieve a rate of return after taxes that is greater than the interest rate question, use your own money.

I haven't borrowed money for a purchase in over a decade.

Reason, I can not guarantee myself a 5+% rate of return after taxes in this market, it made more sense to pay off all the properties, and to pay cash for all the toys.

Not having to consider the amortization of your mortgage is pretty priceless.

If it is interest free, or you have a rooster laying golden eggs at home, then borrow away.
stmbtwle Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 12:56:59
If you want to make the assumption that you'll ALWAYS be able to afford the payments, that's up to you. But IMO it's still really risky.

There are a whole lot of folks who THOUGHT they could "afford the payments" before reality and the economy raised their ugly heads. Now they're sitting on boats/homes/cars that they CAN'T afford and can't sell, either.

Nothing gets your attention like cash!
HOGAN Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 12:47:43
quote:
Originally posted by stmbtwle

quote:
Originally posted by mrknowitall

The risk of borrowing money on a depreciating asset is too high for me... if you don't pay cash for it then you can't afford it. IMO


+1



Not necessarily, if you can afford the payments, why would you NOT use someone else's money to pay for it???
stmbtwle Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 11:36:08
quote:
Originally posted by mrknowitall

The risk of borrowing money on a depreciating asset is too high for me... if you don't pay cash for it then you can't afford it. IMO


+1
KiDa Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 11:05:41
The boat is not under powered, it's over propped. Shy of something Tugboat Kevin or Cap't Harold build it'snever going to be a rocket ship. It wasn't meant to be.
booboo Posted - Jun 25 2011 : 08:20:06
While I can certainly understand the frustration of paying a lot of hard earned money for something and not getting what you expected I feel there are some very serious personality characther traits with OP that have him shooting himself in the foot constantly.

1. Don't get on a public forum and continually bash the people you are CURRENTLY doing business with, its not helping!
2. Don't expect a boat, and take it from someone who has owned 4 brand new boats in the last 7 years, to work flawlessly. Boats, especially new ones without all the kinks worked out break, and they do so frequently and at the most inconvenient of times.
3. I recently worked with silverton to be reimbursed for a bottom job that was done poorly at the factory. While they put up some resistance at first as a "we don't warranty bottom paint" a little kindness and negotiation technique can get you a world of return.
4. Don't come to a public forum and expect everyone here to agree with you just because you are angry.
5. Anyone wishing hurricane devastation on folks has some screws loose, no matter what line of business one is in.

nuff said
mandm1200 Posted - Jun 24 2011 : 21:54:03
quote:
Originally posted by GeeBee

Whoops. Paralegals will be all over it.

Mandm1200, first they get his boat, with punitive they can go after any asset he has including attaching future earnings.


Dream on. Punitive damages is tough to prove. After reading all the threads it has not influenced me one bit about buying a Meridian.
Gregory S Posted - Jun 24 2011 : 21:25:46
wow, never thought of that. Hope Ocean Spray doesn't get ccught up in that.Come to think of it, every marine warranty I've rad had some sort of commercial exclusion. But if That's the case, how do marne businesses handle warranties on new purchases?
KiDa Posted - Jun 24 2011 : 12:24:13
quote:
Originally posted by TerribleTom

Just a thought here......As the OP used his boat for commercial purposes (Chartering), I wonder if the extended warranty would even apply......

Tom



I was wondering when someone was going to pick up on that.
TerribleTom Posted - Jun 24 2011 : 10:42:12
Just a thought here......As the OP used his boat for commercial purposes (Chartering), I wonder if the extended warranty would even apply......

Tom
mariner36 Posted - Jun 24 2011 : 10:23:25
How do access the caches version? I missed the unedited, and it appears to be a humorous read.
In the know Posted - Jun 24 2011 : 10:19:08
quote:
Originally posted by GeeBee

Whoops. Paralegals will be all over it.

Mandm1200, first they get his boat, with punitive they can go after any asset he has including attaching future earnings.



And to boot, the cached version shows the thread before he did all his editing.
mrknowitall Posted - Jun 24 2011 : 09:46:06
The risk of borrowing money on a depreciating asset is too high for me... if you don't pay cash for it then you can't afford it. IMO
GeeBee Posted - Jun 24 2011 : 08:29:29
Whoops. Paralegals will be all over it.

Mandm1200, first they get his boat, with punitive they can go after any asset he has including attaching future earnings.
walterv Posted - Jun 24 2011 : 08:20:06
If you Google Meridian Yachts Repos, this thread comes up in the first page
HOGAN Posted - Jun 24 2011 : 06:32:35
quote:
Originally posted by mandm1200

quote:
Originally posted by GeeBee

They would be entitled to punitive damages as well.
What damages? The bank is not going to spend $50k-100k in hopes of a 50-50 chance of getting $1 back.



Never underestimate the stupidity of a bank...
mandm1200 Posted - Jun 23 2011 : 22:01:56
quote:
Originally posted by GeeBee

They would be entitled to punitive damages as well.
What damages? The bank is not going to spend $50k-100k in hopes of a 50-50 chance of getting $1 back.
GeeBee Posted - Jun 23 2011 : 11:28:43
All I can say is if Bank of the West does reposses now or at any time in the future, with this thread in evidence, they are going to sue for more than the deficiency. They would be entitled to punitive damages as well.

circaburns1 Posted - Jun 23 2011 : 11:25:04
Pat:let me get this right.

If there is still one year on the extended warranty to run and the problem is covered (no reason to think not) then that's Ok and they will pay for the removal and reinstall. This part of the problem solved.
If the problem has been because you have ingested a plastic bag, then wouldn't this be covered by your usual boat insurance? Again problem solved.
And I do not see why you can not take the engine out in parts. The sliding door should come off and the glass panels should come out too - or break the glass and get a new fitted. Frames should be good in situ.

And as an aside, I think you must realize that public venting all the issues you have had with MM or Meridian in the past has done you no good. It might feel right when you post but I believe we all see that it isn't. You just make enemies of the wrong people. The last thing I would want to do is put offside the people that I have to rely top come to the party.

I genuinely wish you good luck with your issues and hope they will work themselves out. Never good to see a fellow boater doing it tough. Despite the posts here, I think we all feel for you.



In the know Posted - Jun 23 2011 : 09:59:53
quote:
Originally posted by mandm1200

quote:
Originally posted by HaveADay


If quoting the guy as he melts down is piling on then sure, otherwise I think you're off base.

Kicking a man when he is down on his luck is not needed. Goes to show the character of the people who post.



There is a difference between being down and asking for help and how to approach a situation in which one feels another party is not honoring their obligation, and being down and acting like an arrogant ass.

I ask you - which category does the OP fall into?

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