| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| nwaring |
Posted - May 21 2012 : 14:21:18
Last year I installed a new Ocean Breeze 12K unit in my V-berth. From the beginning if run it long enough it will freeze up. I understand the 2 main things that causes this is poor ventilation or low Freon. I put a 6X14 grille in the door for it to draw air from. The old Cruiseair unit that was replaced by the new unit was 17 years old and there wasn't any ventilation other than what it sucked out of the space under the V-berth. Marine service for this kind of stuff is about nonexistence in our area and I was wondering if Freon can be added to these units like you do with car or can a refrigerator guy be able to do it?
Thanks
Niles
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| 50 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Billylll |
Posted - Jun 22 2012 : 09:46:19
Niles I think you needed a bit of all 3 suggestions, improve your dockside AC power, increase the air return size and adding the additional ducts.
I am pretty sure you have it now.
Have a nice safe trip.
Bill |
| nwaring |
Posted - Jun 22 2012 : 08:12:51
It has been hot here the last 3 days and the unit is running great. I still haven’t trusted it enough to leave the boat for extended time with it on but we are heading out this afternoon for a 2-week cruise so it will get a good test.
Thanks to everyone for helping me on this, I would have never gone the direction of “not” enough output.
Thanks
Niles
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| Billylll |
Posted - Jun 16 2012 : 17:45:37
Looking good Niles we should be getting some real hot weather mid next week that should be the test.
It seems like anything with a boat with even the best made plans always call for modification.
Well you have the AC power up to standard, return and proper ducts and grills it should work. If not you still didn't waste your efforts you improved the overall quality of the AC power and ability to cool the boat faster. Now if it freezes up which I hope it doesn't it can only be a restriction in the waterflow or low refrigerant.
Bill |
| nwaring |
Posted - Jun 16 2012 : 13:50:20
I installed the 3rd run today. I went through the forward head into the galley cabinets and exited it in the galley. The plenum box I got from Flagship Marine was the wrong size so I called OB and they sent me one overnight. I wanted the exits out the sides and one down but the one I got would have been up\down\left with the way my blower outlet is orientated so I had one of the guys in our machine shop rework it so it was right. I turned the unit on and it brought it down from 79 to 73 without freezing up. There was a little white on the coils but I won’t know for sure until I have a chance to really run it. We have a wedding to attend this afternoon so I turn it off. I’ll give it a good test tomorrow.
Niles
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| Billylll |
Posted - Jun 12 2012 : 06:22:31
They are quiter because the higher voltage allow the compressor to run using less current.
I was hoping it might help some with the 12K BTU OB unit. I know upgrading my AC input on the boat really helped the AC units run better. I found out I had a voltage problem because when I would run the AC units on the 7.3kw generator they always cooled the boat faster and you could barely hear the compressor kick on other then the generator recovery from the sudden load.
Bill |
| nwaring |
Posted - Jun 12 2012 : 05:18:24
The bigger unit seemed quieter but the 12k unit still froze up.
Niles |
| Billylll |
Posted - Jun 11 2012 : 15:28:13
I was hoping when you found the corroded and substandard AC main power feeds this might help solve the AC problem. I guess not, was there any improvement after you got your AC voltage within specifications?
Bill |
| nwaring |
Posted - Jun 11 2012 : 10:19:01
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Mosbacher
Flagship Marine is Ocean Breeze
Well...I kind of wondered about that but in calling I can tell you it is 2 different guys answering the phone.
It doesn’t matter, one guy was going to “send” me the stuff and never did and the other guy took my money and shipped the same day, I’ll go with the money 
Niles
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| Matt Mosbacher |
Posted - Jun 11 2012 : 08:56:09
Flagship Marine is Ocean Breeze |
| Billylll |
Posted - Jun 11 2012 : 05:53:48
I'm sorry to hear OB didn't follow up as promised. Other's should take note hopefully once you add the additional ductwork and resgisters everything will be fine.
Bill |
| nwaring |
Posted - Jun 11 2012 : 05:15:11
Bill, my last conversation with OB was “send me an email of what you need and I will send it to you”. Well, after 2 weeks of no parts and no answers I ordered everything I need from Flagship Marine last Friday and the stuff will arrive Wednesday. My goal is to make the run this Saturday.
Thanks
Niles
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| Billylll |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 16:48:34
Niles any updates? I am really interested.
I am sure many other's are as well.
Bill |
| Billylll |
Posted - May 31 2012 : 08:50:46
quote:
Originally posted by Robski97
No frost is acceptable ! As a test pull the t off and let it run free blowing
Rob
I actually thought Niles was going to try this as part of troubleshooting Rob.
Bill |
| Billylll |
Posted - May 31 2012 : 08:49:25
quote:
Originally posted by Capt. Bill1
quote:
Originally posted by Billylll
[br
Bill
Hey Bill. Is your Email address the same as it's been for a while? Thanks
I'm getting your e-mails forwarded my new e-mail address Bill is b.lentz(at)certifiedrf.com |
| nwaring |
Posted - May 31 2012 : 05:37:46
Temps in the 60's starting today and through the weekend so it will be hard to test. I think I'll start drilling 4" holes in preperation for the 3rd output run.
Thanks
Niles |
| Robski97 |
Posted - May 30 2012 : 21:10:39
No frost is acceptable ! As a test pull the t off and let it run free blowing
Rob |
| Capt. Bill1 |
Posted - May 29 2012 : 12:48:27
quote:
Originally posted by Billylll
[br
Bill
Hey Bill. Is your Email address the same as it's been for a while? Thanks |
| Billylll |
Posted - May 29 2012 : 07:00:13
Hopefully you will get the parts and install them before your next time on the boat Niles.
Bill |
| nwaring |
Posted - May 29 2012 : 05:20:19
It had extended run time yesterday and it froze up. As soon as OB sends me the materials I'll add the 3rd vent and report back.
Thanks
Niles |
| Billylll |
Posted - May 28 2012 : 08:23:35
It sounds like by a little white you mean they are at the initial phase of icing up. I would say it's ok as long as the unit doesn't shut down or fully ice up. I would proceed with adding the extra duct and wait for warmer weather. It was plenty hot here yesterday but very comfortable when inside the boat.
Bill |
| Matt Mosbacher |
Posted - May 28 2012 : 07:32:49
Niles,
Down here in Columbus, it has been plenty warm. |
| nwaring |
Posted - May 28 2012 : 05:57:53
Bill,
I am waiting for Ocean Breeze to send me the parts to add the additional run. In the meantime I wrapped that section with the 90 degree bent with duct instillation. The hot weather we were supposed to have this weekend never happened so the unit has been cycling on and off like normal without icing up. Maybe today it will stay hot and it will get a good test. If the coils turn a little white is that normal?
Thanks
Happy Memorial Day
Niles
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| Billylll |
Posted - May 27 2012 : 09:02:55
Niles any further updates?
Bill |
| Billylll |
Posted - May 26 2012 : 06:44:53
quote:
Originally posted by Billylll
There will not be any problem running 2 additional vents to the locations you show Niles. I think your finally on to the crab as is often said in Deadliest Catch.
The least amount of 90 degree bends possible is the way to go, bends restrict flow and create back pressure. There are 45 degree Y's and bends available.
To bad the ductwork isn't insulated it's not a killer but it helps with condensation and cooling the boat faster.
Bill
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| Billylll |
Posted - May 26 2012 : 06:37:46
There will not be any problem runing 2 additional vents to the locations you show Niles. I think your finally on to the crab as is often said in Deadliest Catch.
The least amount of 90 degree bends possible is the way to go, bends restrict flow and create back pressure. There are 45 degree Y's and bends available.
To bad the ductwork isn't insulated it's not a killer but it helps with condensation and cooling the boat faster.
Bill |
| rduhon |
Posted - May 25 2012 : 19:06:58
If it was cold all the way to the top, it is full of freon.
It seems like air flow may be the problem. |
| nwaring |
Posted - May 25 2012 : 12:45:33
Rob, Bill, rduhon
The coils feel about the same top to bottom. The two current runs length is 6' for the one in the v-berth and the run going to the galley with the 90 bend is 10' long. I can't see where the temp thermistor is. I am going to assume it is on the inside of the drip pan and out od site. The divider in the current T is ok. I'll try and insulate the plastic part of the 5" run somehow. I don't see and packaging material left anywhere.
Niles |
| nwaring |
Posted - May 25 2012 : 12:38:47
First off, thanks everyone your feedback.
When I got to the boat last night I opened up everything, the top cover and the front door. I started the unit, it showed 77 on the stat and I set it to 73. After 25 minutes it started to ice a little on the coils, at 35 minutes it had brought down the temp to 73 and turned off. So it didn’t run long enough to really ice up but this weekend it will get a good test.
OB is going to send me the parts to do another run and maybe reconfigure the current a little. I have room to do a 4” through the bottom of the v-berth lockers, into and through the vanity in the head and into the base cabinets in the galley and exit pointing toward the dinette. In the attached picture I have marked where the current 5” exits and the proposed 4” will be.
Is there any problem having 2 vents somewhat in the same area?
Thanks and everyone have a great\safe holiday weekend
Niles
 |
| Billylll |
Posted - May 24 2012 : 17:35:05
That (90 degree bends) and what seems to be uninsulated plastic ductwork will certainly cut down on the AC unit's ability to cool the boat. I know because my AC units were the same 1993 units that came with the boat. The factory used too few vents, the wrong sized ductwork and the air returns were too small. Also the previous owner had either crushed some of the ducts or replaced it with Blower type hose/ducts.
The Salon unit only had (1) 6" duct to cool or heat a large area. I replaced the (2) old 16k btu units with 2 circa 2007-08 new modern 16k BTU reverse air (MarineAirr) units with the digital controls and until I fixed all of the above I couldn't get the Salon temperatures down on a hot day and both units would freeze up every 15 to 30 minutes of running. I also had a power problem(AC)voltage sag on the Salon unit which was eventually traced to a corroded main AC main breaker. With my new units once they freeze the unit goes into heat mode to thaw itself which creates a blast of hot air. This was definately an adventure correcting all the various problems.
Bill |
| Laissez-Faire |
Posted - May 24 2012 : 17:08:11
I pulled some of my old ac manuals, they state that a 90 degree duct turn is equal to addt'l 10 feet of ducting, I agree with others, air flow is the issue |
| rduhon |
Posted - May 24 2012 : 09:25:33
Check your squirrel cage for cardboard shipping brackets. |
| Billylll |
Posted - May 24 2012 : 07:56:03
quote:
Originally posted by Robski97
Niles,
Feel the evaporator for me . LEt me know its cold from top to bottom. Does it ice up only at nite or during day? How long does it take ? Can be a combo of small issues. Did u ever verify the temp thermistor is in the right place. Lil silver bullet attached to drain pan by a clip. From ur pic its on the right side where the filter is .
Rob
+1 Rob,
I agree it is probably a couple of small things causing this. But the cold hand test on the evaporator is a good place to start. After low refrigerent is ruled out it's probably air flow.
Niles let us know what you find.
Bill |
| nwaring |
Posted - May 24 2012 : 05:39:30
rduhon, the old one was 12k or at least it was listed as 12k. The guy from OB tells me the old unit probably only put out 8.6K, he claims his new one puts out 11.9K...whatever that means
Rob, going to the boat tonight to start the weekend. I'll check everything. It starts to ice up right away...maybe 45 minutes and everything in the front is white. Takes a couple hours to get totally iced up. I'll take more pictures and document what happens this weekend plus check out everyone’s ideas.
Thanks everyone
Niles
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| Robski97 |
Posted - May 23 2012 : 18:18:48
Niles,
Feel the evaporator for me . LEt me know its cold from top to bottom. Does it ice up only at nite or during day? How long does it take ? Can be a combo of small issues. Did u ever verify the temp thermistor is in the right place. Lil silver bullet attached to drain pan by a clip. From ur pic its on the right side where the filter is .
Rob |
| rduhon |
Posted - May 23 2012 : 16:07:32
You can use the same size a/c. Most all have the same air flow as an old one.
The newer ones are more efficient, but BTU's are BTU's.
If you had a 12K BTU a/c, another one the same size still puts out 12K BTU.
And air flow should be the same also. If different, your efficiency will change.
Too much air flow will cause a lot of noise. Not enough air flow and you freeze up.
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| nwaring |
Posted - May 23 2012 : 14:58:54
This whole deal may turn out to show that you just can't replace older units with modern ones, use same ducting and expect it to work…even though I did
Niles |
| sabrejocky |
Posted - May 23 2012 : 14:22:11
Not sure if Steve over at marine-ac.com forum is still around but I would bet that he would tell you that your problem is your ducting, you need much larger hoses.
Run the unit with just a short piece of 6" or bigger duct sticking out of its enclosure and see if it still freezes up, my money is on not.
Cor |
| dritter |
Posted - May 23 2012 : 12:23:43
I had one freeze up and it was caused by air flow. Added two 4 inch vents and it stopped the problem!!! |
| nwaring |
Posted - May 23 2012 : 10:03:29
Rob, that T does have divider, I'll check it. I'll also make sure there aren’t any kinks, even in areas that the pictures don't show. The 5" run comes up through a storage area in the dinette; I'll make sure something wasn't put in there and collapsed the hose.
If all that fails I am contacting OB to get a plenum box with 4” collars, plates and a 2’ collar. I think I can get a 2” run into the head. With the box I can probably eliminate the elbow that I have on top.
Niles |
| Robski97 |
Posted - May 23 2012 : 09:23:14
The " T " right off the unit that both ducts connect to has a diverter to divert air into both ducts. See if the diverter collapsed or closed one side. Also make sure the duct at the bottom is kinked as it makes the turn. When u first start the ac unit let it run 5 mins then feel the evaporator coil . ( the cold part ) and see if its cold from the top all the way to the bottom ( uniformly ) . if it is the freon charge is not the issue . If he leaves the bed up and it doesnt ice up im thinking its that diverter T
Rob |
| nwaring |
Posted - May 23 2012 : 08:26:01
quote:
Originally posted by Billylll
Niles I had mentioned earlier about restricted flow on the cooling and heating side I think that is what you may have. The old unit may have worked fine but back when they used Freon that refrigerent gas reacted different then the current gasses used.
Bill
Thanks Bill, It really is starting to look like restricted air flow "out" is the problem
Niles |
| nwaring |
Posted - May 23 2012 : 08:20:15
quote:
Originally posted by stmbtwle
On some units you can unbolt the fan and turn it, so it points up like the old one did.
The first unit I got from them was a top exit and it worked fine until something broke in the compressor. I'll check and see if in fact the fan can be turned.
Thanks
Niles |
| Billylll |
Posted - May 23 2012 : 08:19:04
Niles I had mentioned earlier about restricted flow on the cooling and heating side I think that is what you may have. The old unit may have worked fine but back when they used Freon that refrigerent gas reacted different then the current gasses used.
Bill |
| nwaring |
Posted - May 23 2012 : 08:16:54
quote:
Originally posted by rduhon
I would try removing the outlet vents to give it a lil more air thru the ducts.
That is something I can do without reengineering everything. The vents actually have lovers’ that can be closed. I'll look and see what I can do there.
Thanks
Niles
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| stmbtwle |
Posted - May 23 2012 : 07:49:44
You have what amounts to a 180 deg bend right after the fan, that's gotta hurt the air flow.
I'd be tempted to try some 4" or larger PVC fittings for duct work, they're smooth inside and should give you better flow.
Or make a plenum box to fit on the fan discharge, and run your ducts from that. The bigger the box and the more ducts you can run, the less restriction there'll be. I had to do this with my AC.
On some units you can unbolt the fan and turn it, so it points up like the old one did.
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| rduhon |
Posted - May 23 2012 : 07:40:52
If you leave the door or Vberth off and it still freezes up, it is either the outlet ducts or refrigerant.
I would try removing the outlet vents to give it a lil more air thru the ducts.
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| bobalong |
Posted - May 23 2012 : 07:15:06
quote:
Originally posted by gcolton
quote:
Originally posted by PascalG
i'd have someone check the pressure and refill as needed. it's not as simple as just adding gas, you need to put gauges on it and see what's going on.
You will also need the correct tables to convert the ambient temps, etc to go along with the gauge readings.
----------------------------
High pressure side should be 2 1/2 times the ambient temperature.
Low side is read directly from the face of the gauge.
Not difficult. It is very similar to adding refrigerant to a car.
George
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| gcolton |
Posted - May 23 2012 : 06:54:19
quote:
Originally posted by PascalG
i'd have someone check the pressure and refill as needed. it's not as simple as just adding gas, you need to put gauges on it and see what's going on.
You will also need the correct tables to convert the ambient temps, etc to go along with the gauge readings.
Not difficult. It is very similar to adding refrigerant to a car.
George |
| nwaring |
Posted - May 23 2012 : 05:47:43
The guy from OB keeps telling me I need three 4" outlets or it will freeze up. I really don't have room for another 4", maybe a 2" and run it into the head on the port side of the boat.
Where can you buy different configurations of outlet housing?
Thanks
Niles |
| Starry Night |
Posted - May 23 2012 : 05:46:34
Niles,
Two thing I see that indicate restricted air flow:
1. The 5 inch duct looks like it come over then in front of the air intake on the starboard side as it runs under the v- berth.
2. Air intake is facing the starboard side hull which will reduce air flow. I understand that is probably the only way it will fit in the location.
Keep the vent door open on a warm day to see if it freezes up. If it does not, then you know it is air related. If it does, then refridgerant may be needed. Remember 144 square inches of air to the front of the intake.
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