| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| ronp |
Posted - Jun 08 2012 : 15:06:35
I reconnected my water system today. All was well until everything was filled up and pressurized. Then I noticed the pump cycling briefly about every 10 seconds and heard a hiss in the ER. It looks like there is a leak way over in the corner where the copper pipes go under the galley to get to the fixtures.
Here's the weird thing:
- I got vivid pink out of every fixture before I flushed it through. All the fixtures are downstream of where the leak must be, so I don't see how there could have been a pocket of water in this area.
- It's not much of a leak. In fact after about 60 seconds of the pump cycling, the hissing stops and the pump stops. It's as if there's only a leak when the pump gets things to peak pressure, and then things reach an equilibrium where it stops leaking yet the pump doesn't feel it needs to kick on.
- I just see "wet" over there - not a specific stream of water from anywhere. It's not an easy spot to get to. I'll need to slither like the Grinch to get in there.
This does not act like any burst pipe I ever saw. Usually they split lengthwise and would cause a geyser, which would make more noise than this is making. So, can 40 year old copper have corroded to where it kind of has a leak but only when the pressure is high enough? I know I need to get in there, but I won't be doing that today. But I'm wondering what my approach should be - replace that whole section with something other than copper, or just patchwork of some kind. |
| 19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| boatn |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 18:52:26
before i started tearing anything apart I'd make sure that there is actually a leak in that spot of the pipe and not an issue with the water pump. In all my years of boating I've yet to have a broken pipe but I've had several water pump issues. |
| Billylll |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 14:54:55
quote:
Originally posted by rawidman
quote:
Originally posted by Billylll
Ron my house was the same way acidic well water and low grade 1970's copper. Aluminum electrical wire. Finally got sick of coming home to leaks and circuits going bad had everything upgraded about 9 years ago and now have no issues. Well the old septic system has seen better days.
Bill
I did have copper wire. I would have upgraded the plumbing but I moved south instead.
One of my pinhole leaks was between two doubled up floor joists with no way to get in and repair it. I had to cut out a section of joist, repair the pipe, and sister a replacement section of joist to the cut one.
That's what I need to eventually do move South no question about it Ron.
Bill |
| vic33004 |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 14:29:31
Ron to answer your question, yes it can and based on your description that is likly what has happened. |
| rawidman |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 06:21:51
quote:
Originally posted by Billylll
Ron my house was the same way acidic well water and low grade 1970's copper. Aluminum electrical wire. Finally got sick of coming home to leaks and circuits going bad had everything upgraded about 9 years ago and now have no issues. Well the old septic system has seen better days.
Bill
I did have copper wire. I would have upgraded the plumbing but I moved south instead.
One of my pinhole leaks was between two doubled up floor joists with no way to get in and repair it. I had to cut out a section of joist, repair the pipe, and sister a replacement section of joist to the cut one. |
| Billylll |
Posted - Jun 09 2012 : 23:33:23
Ron my house was the same way acidic well water and low grade 1970's copper. Aluminum electrical wire. Finally got sick of coming home to leaks and circuits going bad had everything upgraded about 9 years ago and now have no issues. Well the old septic system has seen better days.
Bill |
| 32carv |
Posted - Jun 09 2012 : 06:55:26
I have the old gray plastic tubing from the 80's. I'm not sure if it the same as the Pex today but I never had trouble with the plastic pipe. The fittings are another story. I used have issues in the spring with any fittings that were opened durring winterization. A hot water heater bypass kit and some creative Lowes shopping got me out of the spring plumbing routine.
I have no issues with copper but agree with replace vs. patch or fix. With the price of copper today do any builders currently use it in new boats?
Jim |
| rawidman |
Posted - Jun 09 2012 : 06:22:49
quote:
It looks like there is a leak way over in the corner where the copper pipes go under the galley to get to the fixtures.
I would start by checking the connections to the galley fixtures. Also, if your piping is connected to the fixtures by flexible connectors, these can develop leaks. The leaking water often runs down the pipe or tubing so the leak may not be where you find the puddle. |
| rawidman |
Posted - Jun 09 2012 : 06:15:50
For 23 years I lived in a house with copper pipe and acid well water. Copper pipe can develop pinhole leaks from the inside out. I suppose I repaired twenty or more in the years I lived there and would have replumbed the house If I hadn't sold it and moved south. A slit length of hose and a hose clamp makes a temporary repair. Replumbing makes a permanent one.
At one time, copper pipe was the best water supply plumbing available. Not any longer. PEX and CPVC have taken over. I would use PEX on a boat because of the vibration and ability to withstand a light freeze. |
| Billylll |
Posted - Jun 09 2012 : 05:40:33
An emergency repair can be done with a piece of hose and some clamps.
Just properly size the hose to be a tight fit on the copper.
Bill |
| rapscallion |
Posted - Jun 08 2012 : 20:59:14
You could replace a section of the copper ipex and use Shark Bite fittings to make the connections. I've done this successfully in my house, but in a boat. The fittings just snap on, no tools. Just make sure you have good clean 90-degree cuts and clean them up with emery paper. I have no idea whether or not this solution is recommended for marine applications. Get some advice. |
| ronp |
Posted - Jun 08 2012 : 19:34:51
Sorry Bill, Veg was correct. Pink no-tox AF was what I meant. First usage after the winter, that's the first reason for a leak I would think of. Of course there's nothing to say it wasn't doing this last fall before I put it away and I just didn't notice so it may have nothing to do with winter.
I'm on the boat now and I hear the pump maybe once every 5 minutes now and just for a second or two. So it's still leaking but not much.
It does not seem like I will see any consensus here about what to replace my copper lines with - new copper or something else but I appreciate the various opinions. |
| PascalG |
Posted - Jun 08 2012 : 18:32:04
yeah leave it to hatteras to use the highest grade! but there are hundreds of these old boats around and problems are very very rare. |
| Billylll |
Posted - Jun 08 2012 : 18:30:29
Well there are different grades of copper so Pascal you must have the highest grade. I prefer PEX anyday over copper.
Bill |
| PascalG |
Posted - Jun 08 2012 : 16:00:07
odd... you say the hissing and the pump stop, which would mean the leak stops as the pump has built max pressure.
you need to get to that spot and find the leak, unfortunately that's the only way.
as to copper on boats, i'll take that over plastic lines and fittings... my plumbing is 42 year old and the only leaks i've had are were someone used clamps and hoses along the way! |
| JohnC |
Posted - Jun 08 2012 : 15:31:09
I had a leak in a pipe which carries salt water from my heat exchanger out to the exhaust hose. It's such a slight leak that without the engine running and pressure no water came through. There is no noticable 'hole' in the metal, just a spot that looks slightly corroded but under pressure the water very slowly weeps through. I initially attempted to repair it with plumbers epoxy but the water still got through. Brought it to a marine exhaust place to get them replaced and he said he could fix them. By the end of the second season water was slowly dripping again. Went back this winter and had new ones made up. That's probably the best way to go. You probably have something similar, not a burst pipe from freezing but corrosion that formed over the years. BTW, had 2 copper drain lines in my house go in the past few years also that were around 40 years old. |
| Radioactive |
Posted - Jun 08 2012 : 15:30:02
<< Got it. We do not have the winterization issue, so I failed to make the leap to winterization -> possible burst pipe. >> |
| Billylll |
Posted - Jun 08 2012 : 15:29:51
I'm thinking copper = a pinhole from wearing thin from the inside out.
I hate copper water lines in a house or a boat.
Bill |
| Veg |
Posted - Jun 08 2012 : 15:27:01
I think he meant that he confirmed the system was full of antifreeze, so he doesn't think there was a pocket of water sitting there through the winter, so likely no freezing damage.
|
| Radioactive |
Posted - Jun 08 2012 : 15:22:17
Eons ago, when I was a USNAR, there was a large sign posted at the personnel entrance to the hanger:
"If you can't find the time to do it right the first time, where will you find the time to do it right the second time?"
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The big bugaboo with copper lines on a boat is vibration, rather than corrosion, but both produce leaks...
The leak might be very small. If this is the case it might fairly easily pass air, but nearly stop when passing water ( higher viscosity ). That is what it sounds like to me.
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I do not like to do repairs, so when I need to fix something, I tend to Rip-N-Replace. This is especially true when the problem occurred in a difficult location. Geterdone then you can forgedaboudit.
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Don't understand the "pink" reference. I read it as anti-freeze. |
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