| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| vided |
Posted - Jul 05 2012 : 03:30:49
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/at_least_two_missing_after_boat_vZ91m0w6XHfkPCFREweIaP |
| 50 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| PascalG |
Posted - Aug 12 2012 : 14:04:31
If authorities cant enforce existing rules, while pass more?
Reckless operation and terminating an unsafe voyage are two existing rules that could have been used in this case... |
| mdoherty |
Posted - Aug 12 2012 : 13:24:14
Once again a politician trying to fix stupidity with a law.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/t/story/questions-linger-capacity-limits-ny-capsize-16989889
http://huntington.patch.com/articles/could-new-laws-make-waterways-safer-1efdc31c |
| stmbtwle |
Posted - Jul 19 2012 : 09:26:28
Maybe not just a lifeboat. There are commercial boats that size that can carry 27 passengers (plus crew) easily, but they're built and certified for the purpose and operate on a restricted route; the average pleasure cruiser is NOT. |
| OUV11112 |
Posted - Jul 19 2012 : 07:49:21
"You have to remember that young kids were included in the total number of people on board the boat in question." - 27 kids on that boat would be way too many people. |
| Veebyes |
Posted - Jul 18 2012 : 22:43:39
The skipper, owner, whoever was in control when they left the dock is out of his mind. 27 people, on a 34' boat, at night???? Nuts!!!
My 32' Chesapeake workboat was designed to carry weight. That weight is carried very near the waterline, cockpit being only inches above the water. It was licensed 20 passengers max. I seldom carried over 14. I felt perfectly safe at that number with that boat.
I also have an Albin 32. A very different design. I also used that boat commercially. It was licensed for 12 passengers max. The only time I carried more than 12 on that boat was when I had a bunch of boat owning friends aboard very familiar with the ways of boats.
The only type of 34' boat suitable for carrying anything near 27 people would be a certified lifeboat.
Again the owner/skipper was crazy & liable IMO 100% for the tragedy. |
| L. Keith |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 19:59:48
Billy, you must not know the right Generals. Take A Chance Airline, I still fly them down to San Pedro Sula! |
| Billylll |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 19:20:26
quote:
Originally posted by L. Keith
"If I ever boarded a plane and saw it was standing room only i wouldnt stay on."
Obviously you never flew on TACA when they had DC-3's.
You would if you were pulled out of the Customs area by their military and questioned for 10 straight hours.
Bill |
| psalzer |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 18:08:57
quote:
Originally posted by L. Keith
"If I ever boarded a plane and saw it was standing room only i wouldnt stay on."
Obviously you never flew on TACA when they had DC-3's.
TACA, now that some I haven't heard in a long time!!! Always ans experience!! |
| walterv |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 17:02:17
If I was ever on a plane and trapped, I would fake a heart attack to get off. I could never be just sitting for hours to take off. If the heart attack thing did not work, I would get arrested and get off the plane.
I have a thing about not controlling my destiny :) |
| L. Keith |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 16:49:42
"If I ever boarded a plane and saw it was standing room only i wouldnt stay on."
Obviously you never flew on TACA when they had DC-3's.
|
| Billylll |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 15:06:02
Bob great post since we both boat in the same area I can attest that we were totally caught off guard when my wife and I went to bring Harlan and Lil in from the ICW to our marina a couple of weeks ago. The WX radio and my MFDs storm alert went off literally the moment after the storm from he*l came out of nowhere. Our biggest fear was getting hit by another boat in the shallow channel through the bay to the Tuckerton Creek or getting struck by the non-stop cloud to water lightning. The flashes and bangs were together and the hair on my arms was standing up in the horizontal rain. I later thought of an old post Pascal made about having to wear a mask and snorkel while he cruised through a storm a few years ago. We could see the lightning's concentric discharges from the direct strikes on the water like ripples across the water.
It's a day as Harlan put it we can live to tell our Grandkids about.
Bill |
| Billylll |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 14:52:18
quote:
Originally posted by zane
Whenever and wherever I go with my child i always look around and think "what could go wrong here?' This is a tragedy and I dont want to monday morning quarterback but at some point during the boarding someone should have said "there are too many of us". I said this in another thread but i dont know squat about flying a plane. If I ever boarded a plane and saw it was standing room only i wouldnt stay on.
Zane so true however when I was in Africa I flew from Cote'd Ivory to Legos Nigeria on a plane that had over 20 people standing I was one of them. There was a reason the State Department wouldn't allow any direct flights from the US to Nigeria we are talking the 1980's.
Bill |
| walterv |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 14:32:55
Great post!!! |
| btoran |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 14:27:20
we were watching fireworks from our boat one harbor over (Huntington/Npt) and there was a little wind, but not much. one of the first articles i read said it was a VERY new purchase. if that's true, i would think there may have been another problem as well, which the captain may not have been aware of. looking at the above picture, they should have attached those air bags before they left the dock. |
| freckles |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 13:16:19
ditto, Britanic -- I got chills reading it. |
| robedney |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 12:09:11
Excellent post Britanic -- which all should read! |
| Britanic |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 11:17:36
Here is part of my post in ATC earlier this year when we rolled;
-------
Fast forward to now and here I have my own boat and family. Two daughters aged 2 and 6. My wife grew up around boats and we are blessed to be able to share this lifestyle together. Our current boat is a 34’ Silverton convertible; we have put about 350 hours on Her in the last five years. It’s an older boat but we keep it bristol. It’s not a high end or high quality boat, but for the four of us and our two dogs it serves us well and has really been a great boat. Simple, reliable and safe – for the most part.
Last year we headed out for a typical 2 hour run, it was clear and calm. That day we decided to run up to the Barnegat Light house and have lunch just off the inlet in a well-protected cove. Normally I will run up past the lighthouse just into the mouth of the inlet (bay side) and turn back. This day the ocean was gleaming. I had checked the weather on the radio earlier that morning and swells where 2 to 4 feet, which around here is pretty much every day.
My oldest was in the salon lying on the coach. My wife was in a deck chair, back to the cabin bulkhead, in the cockpit. 2 year old was sleeping in my wife’s arms, wherein’ Her Lil Mustang of course. We have a factory cockpit snap in carpet, nothing really moves around down there. Ocean looked great from where I was, boats where around and I decided to run out to the end of the last marker, a bell buoy and then come back in and go to the cove. Once I got three quarters of the way through, I realized we had about 6 foot rollers and the tide was coming in. Nothing too bad, but decided not to run to the last set of markers. I ran out past the jetty slowed, turned and started coming back in.
We were going about 10 kts, 7 to 8 is hull speed for us. Tabs up. Waves where spaced far apart, and tame, we were enjoying the ride and where just about to enter back in between the jetties. Before I knew what happen I was on the bridge floor and we were healed far over on the starboard side. I heard the galley empty below me and some larger items falling. Then my oldest daughter screamed. Seemed like we stayed that way for 1 to 2 seconds and then she came right back up. Pissed that I had literally been knocked out of the helm chair but managed to keep my grip on the wheel, I pulled myself up, yelled down if everyone was OK – now a bit panic stricken realizing I didn’t hear my wife during the roll – but soon reassured when she yelled up “yeah, get in!” I hit the throttles, rode the backs of the rollers till we were inside far enough and then full bore thru the inlet. Just inside I dropped the anchor and went downstairs.
My six year old was hysterical having been literally thrown off the couch. Much of the galley contents was now opposite in the dinette. My two dogs, one 50lbs and one 80lbs didn’t look happy. My wife was in the same place, the deck chair against the cockpit bulkhead with my still sleeping 2 year old in Her arms. Our large cooler filled with ice normally far aft in the cockpit had slip to starboard and had spilled a lot of ice. I went to pull it back to the center of the boat and could not move it. The boats stern cleats are horizontal inside the cockpit, inboard side of the transom. The cooler slid so hard that the cleat punctured all the way thru it, like a giant nail, and was holding it there. My wife didn’t say a word.
Nobody was hurt and nothing was severely damaged, but I knew right then how lucky we were. I mentioned the boat is a Silverton, it’s not the boats fault. Sure it’s no Hatt or Viking, but that isn’t the point. A confused following sea hit me square in the port quarter and threw us over, BECAUSE I took my eyes off the sea for a couple of seconds, probably two to three seconds.
I KNOW that inlet.
I KNOW my boat.
I had 25 years’ experience running inlets.
I made a couple big mistakes that day, but most importantly I let my guard down.
A few more things I realized.
If she went over, I nor my crew would have been prepared. We have a life raft, EPIRB, kids were wearing vests and we were within feet of other boats, but I fear the worst would of happened.
You have to always be keenly aware of your surroundings, your limitations and your exact situation, all the time.
We didn’t have lunch at the cove, we just went back. Not much was said. Once we arrived at the dock, the usual marina life took over and that was that. Only later in the evening when going to bed, my wife said to me “it seemed like slow motion, I swear the sea touched the gunnel and I was thinking of how I was going to swim up from under the boat with our baby in my arms”. My oldest was in the cabin, safe place for Her?
I am much the wiser because of this experience. As of now we simply don’t go into the ocean with the kids on the boat, not until they are older. And you can bet I am on my toes more now than before. There is risk with everything, you have to take it to a degree or life would not be worth living. My point with this is, the ocean for all intensive purposes was navigable. Experience sometimes equals complacency.
Be careful, be safe and have fun, but always be aware.
|
| BornToBoat |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 11:00:12
quote:
Originally posted by walterv
I think no matter what is found to be the cause, there is a lesson here that flybridge owners should learn. One lesson that screams at me is you need to have a big hammer in the boat or something like that to break the glass on the salon door.
Great point, Walter. |
| Britanic |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 10:46:33
We are having the same discussion on SOC, here is a cut and paste from me.
I have esentially the same boat. A few of you may recall a recent post from me earlier this year about an almost tragic incident in an inlet.
These boat do tend to roll fairly easily.
---------------
I have an 88, and there is a light for the AFT pump only, its red.
When i bought the boat, some of the dash power-on indicator lights where orange and red, some where green. (windlass, fume detector...)
Once of the first things i did was replace the power-on indicator lights to all green. Any warning lights remained red.
I wanted to be able to just glance down and see all green = OK, anything red would be a problem.
I am a certified mechanic, naturally i am "in tune" with whatever i am operating and always monitor oil, temp and whatever is avaiable to me, just habbit.
With that many people on board, watching the depth gauge, possible plotter...a warning light might have gone un noticed.
I do not have a high water alarm but want to add one.
I have logged alot of hours on my boat, been in some nasty stuff only on rare occasion. The boat can take a healthy sea HEAD ON, she has a high bow, large flare and is dry. She is stable at cruise speed and at partial plane - but does roll at rest and hull speed easily. She is also light at 12,500lbs dry, small blocks and fuel tanks (which need to be full) are Her only real ballast. She rolls easily to a point and tends to "spring back". Ever been on a Bertram 35 or similiar at rest - deep V will roll violently.
Aside from the main exhuast and generator exhuast, all other thru hulls are pretty far up from the water line. My suspision is not water in the bidlge, it was simply too much weight too high AND if there was a fair amount of people in the cockpit and she rolled far enough to put a gunnel underwater, the rest is over quickly. Cockpit would have been overwelmed and she would not be able to correct herself. Additionally, cabin door was probably open (they lock open) and if she went under stern first after the roll as i suspect, water would have rushed forward while she was on Her side or upside down taking everything with it forward.
Only way out would have been thru a deck hatch (three large enought for an average weight adult to pass thru) but with the boat listing or worse and the chaos, i doubt even one of us experienced adults would have had much chance, let alone a small child.
I may be wrong, but i dont think we are going to see component failure or hull breach. |
| zane |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 09:52:41
Whenever and wherever I go with my child i always look around and think "what could go wrong here?' This is a tragedy and I dont want to monday morning quarterback but at some point during the boarding someone should have said "there are too many of us". I said this in another thread but i dont know squat about flying a plane. If I ever boarded a plane and saw it was standing room only i wouldnt stay on. |
| abalmuth |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 09:39:04
quote:
Originally posted by Audrey II
L x W /15 puts my boat at 44 passengers that's just insane! I don't like this math the must be a better system to calculate. What they did I would like to believe unknowingly it put everyone's lives at risk sadly three kids paid the price with their lives.
Puts my boat at 51 Pass. – No way! I would not do half that.
When the number of total pass. starts getting in the Mid-teens I don’t want to have to deal with the concern and responsibility of many more people.
I’m doing this for fun and not getting paid to be worry the entire trip.
Also if Kids are onboard I think that someone other than me (like their parents) should also be responsible for the kids safety and keep track of them
With that boat sinking in the dark and 25ish people in the water scrambling & maybe yelling for vests or other boats I bet the parents thought that ‘someone else’ was saving their kids.
|
| ronp |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 08:32:50
quote:
Originally posted by stmbtwle
About all it would take is someone to say "hey look at that!" and everyone on board tries to get a better look...
Leaving the dock they probably all WERE in the cabin or cockpit, but of course you can't see much from there.
I recall that during the Mariel boatlift a 33' boat sank because it had 25 or so people on it and at one point they all ran to the stern to see something. It got my attention and stayed with me because it was the same model boat as my Dad owned at the time.
Certainly once the roll started, they all must have fallen to one side and accelerated it. |
| ALKA2710 |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 07:29:10
On the deadliest catch the skippers load thousands of pounds (over load) of crab pots high on there boats to sail out to the crab grounds. When Ice forms or a storm comes in they know they have to clear the ice or set the pots to get the center of gravity lower or there boats could roll. This just seems to me like a tragic overload where a large boat wave or sudden turn or shift in weight caused the boat to roll. Not sure about criminality. Not having common sense is not always criminal and it is going to be hard to prove in court and unless there is a lot more to the story.
Al
Al |
| CurrentSea |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 07:02:17
No matter how you look at this it is a tragedy.
When I look at that boat and try to picture 27 people, remember, it was 17 adults and 10 children.
I also saw some of the adults on tv and they were not small 150lb adults, more like 250 lbs.
In my mind, owner and captain are both negligent of over-loading the boat and the deaths of those poor kids lie directly with them. The poor kids don't know any better.
May the kids rest in peace and may the negligent people forever feel guilty of their crime!
|
| stmbtwle |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 06:13:52
About all it would take is someone to say "hey look at that!" and everyone on board tries to get a better look...
Leaving the dock they probably all WERE in the cabin or cockpit, but of course you can't see much from there. |
| Philyteach |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 21:29:47
24x8.5=204/15=13.6 My Capacity plate says 10 people, so they definitely used a slightly modified formula. And I really did have 10 people on board once. Boat handled okay at hull speed with everyone sitting down. (had to rescue 8 college kids off a sinking skull boat) |
| Audrey II |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 21:23:04
L x W /15 puts my boat at 44 passengers that's just insane! I don't like this math the must be a better system to calculate. What they did I would like to believe unknowingly it put everyone's lives at risk sadly three kids paid the price with their lives. |
| getakey |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 21:20:04
I would bet they had a lot of the people on the bow, but even then, it was surely an overcrowded obat.
Did you watch the youtube clip? The Police boat in the background looked to be about the same size. I thought it had quite a few people onboard. |
| walterv |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 20:23:12
Yup
You may be right Robert |
| robedney |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 19:38:15
Sorry -- looking at the pic above (and the youtube video) plain old common sense would tell anyone who had any that 27 people is a severe, dangerous overload on that boat. No formulas, calcs or static stability testing needed. No keel, no reserve stability to speak of, fly(ing) bridge -- it all adds up. I'm kind of surprised she just didn't roll making the first turn out of the slip. They might have had a fighting chance if they's all been stuffed into the cabin to keep the weight low and centered -- but even then...
The real question -- and I'm talking moral here, not legal -- is when something passes ignorance and becomes negligence. Surely the owner didn't set out to kill anyone -- but the danger seems so overwhelmingly obvious. |
| CurrentSea |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 19:05:56
http://youtu.be/D4KeSYotXPI |
| CurrentSea |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 19:03:08
 |
| walterv |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 18:53:48
I think no matter what is found to be the cause, there is a lesson here that flybridge owners should learn. One lesson that screams at me is you need to have a big hammer in the boat or something like that to break the glass on the salon door. When a boat like this turns over, the stress on the big opening on the salon door can make the door not open, I bet this is how those poor kids died and could not get out.
Food for thought |
| walterv |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 18:47:16
Listen,
I agree with all here that 27 people on this boat is a bit over the top an I certainly would not do this but for different reasons. But with that said, sure, 27 people on this boat (23 adults) is doable. Doable meaning they can all fit and not feel like sardines in a can. Also, keep in mind this was a put put ride not far from the dock to just sit and watch fireworks. This was also in the long island sound and not 10 miles in the ocean.
Something else happened here to contribute to this tragedy and when they pull the boat from the bottom it would not surprise me to see something else happened. Not knowing this year and model, but knowing a bit about Silverton, my concern or observation is that a thru hull fitting that was not meant to be below the waterline was suddenly below the waterline with this excess weight. I have heard of Silverton using plastic thru hull fittings on thru hull that is above the waterline. The problem with that is if the thru hull gets below the water line you can pop the hose from the thru hull. The reason that happens is you can't torque the hose tight enough around a plastic fitting.
I guess we all just need to see what the deal is once the boat is extracted from the bottom. "No alcohol or drugs", mostly family members, Not sure about you guys, but has me thinking this is not the first time this boat was loaded like this.
Just My 2C
Walter |
| robedney |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 17:52:28
I have seen a fly bridge fly -- which I guess made it a flying bride. Huge storm a few years back -- peeled the thing right off a boat and carried it across the harbor. You'd think the steering/engine control cables would have kept it attached, but no. Never underestimate the power of wind.
As for posting load limits, there's a cost benefit analysis that manufacturers consider when looking at this stuff. You might think it has to do with the cost of figuring out the limit, printing and installing the placards. More likely, however, it's the cost in sales potential by telling a potential buyer that she/he can't put a crowd on the boat. |
| stmbtwle |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 17:07:50
Well inasmuch as I've never seen a bridge fly (they do fall down occasionally), I don't think "flying bridge" is any more or less correct than "fly bridge". It is what it is and you can call it whatever you darn well please.
But the general consensus is that the boat was improperly loaded (if not overloaded) for the conditions. Maybe the operator knew this and maybe he didn't; 5000# isn't really that much of a load for a 34' boat. But while builders aren't required to provide capacity plates (much less stability booklets), something of the sort (IF it had been followed) might have saved three lives.
Lacking documentation how was the guy to know? Even the "Boater's Bible" (Chapman's) assuming he had read it has little or no discussion on stability.
It would be simple enough to have plates affixed denoting the max number of persons allowed on the boat AND the max number of persons allowed on the fly bridge/flying bridge/cabin top/coach roof/sundeck/cancer deck/penthouse/roof/whatchamacallit, using the worst case scenario of all tanks say 1/4 full, crossovers if any open, and a certain amount of water in the bilge. At least that should cover the manufacturer's rosy red.
As it is they may be out on a limb and lawyers aren't free. |
| PascalG |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 17:05:06
27 pax averaging 150 lbs = 4000 lbs or 30% of the boat weight
There are a few 53 Hatt like mine that have been USCG inspected for up to 49 pax... That would be about 7500 lbs which is 15% of the boat weight... Going by the "formula" the boat could take 55 pax
This simplistic example alone shows that formula can not be used... |
| zane |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 15:53:51
Anything is possible. I know someone who had same vintage boat that partially sank at the dock. The mufflers from the factory were aluminum . One night the muffler gave out and what was a trickle of water coming in thru the exhaust eventually became a gusher the lower the boat went.
In most boats the pumps are in the center. if these exhausts were under water and something gave out all that water rushing in would primarily stay on the port or starboard side based on the bulkheads . the limber holes are pretty small. be very interesting to see what they find. |
| CurrentSea |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 15:19:30
Answered my own question
She is up!
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/sunken-boat-brought-to-surface-of-oyster-bay-1.3831058?qr=1
http://www.news12.com/articleDetail.jsp?articleId=326507&position=1&news_type=news |
| CurrentSea |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 15:13:38
Did they raise it yet?
I said it on another thread that I wouldn't be suprised if there was something else here affecting this.
Bilge not working.
Weight of boat pushed below thru hull and water coming in.
It does take a lot of force to flip a boat of this size.
The way it went over and sunk so quickly leads me to believe there was more weight in the bilge than just the people up top!
|
| mintregila |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 14:56:02
Not to join the fray but not all 34 ft boats are created equal. A quick search on YW shows that this vintage weighed 12,500 dry. When 27 people boarded, this boat would have been obviously unstable at the dock let alone rocking back and forth in wakes. I don't think anyone on board would have guessed that it could flip over but a reasonable boater would have thought it unsafe for many reasons. |
| psalzer |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 14:22:32
I have a Bayliner 2858 Command Bridge...3 adults on the bridge is the max for me, and that is in calm water. As far as I am concerned 8 passengers is my maximum, any more than that and performance is affected. 27 people on a 34' boat makes no sense tied to the dock, much less underway! |
| L. Keith |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 14:03:45
Wille, I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you on this, but tank levels (which I mention in several of my above, please read) take into account free surface effect. If you sound a tank and the level reflects a less than fully pressed up tank, a properly prepared stability book will take the potential free surface movement of liquids into account on the overall stability of the vessel.
I agree with you and say several times in my above post, that stability is based on many variables. On July 5, 2012, in this thread, I posted "There are so many variables involved in determining capacity and a One-Size Fits All capacity plate is misleading and can in some cases be very dangerous."
If Joe Blow boater is sitting on a boat trying to make a decision on how many people to take out to watch the fire works, and he, like many on this site are "Google Geniuses" and Joe Blow does a web search on safe boat capacity, that formula will show up as a guide.
Wille if you put 5,000 pounds of weight on the Flying Bridge of a Silverton, I'm pretty sure the superstructure supporting that Flying Bridge would suffer a sudden and complete structural failure, IE the Flying Bridge would collapse into the lower deckhouse before the boat ever left the dock. Do flies operate boats? Then why do some people have a "Fly Bridge" on their boat? I was taught an open bridge was a Flying Bridge.
|
| stmbtwle |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 13:15:41
L Keith I'm quite familiar with stability booklets, GM, tank free surface, etc. which of course you didn't bother to mention in your post. My guess is if you could put 33 persons (5000# MOL) on the fly bridge of the boat in question you're going to have a problem. They only had 27 (of which 3 were known to be in the cabin), and they had a problem anyway.
I'm just saying there's a WHOLE lot more to it than just L x B / 15. |
| getakey |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 13:00:06
I don't know what formula is used for ferrys, but I remember hearing about how they upped the assumed weight per person fairly recently.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017058922_apwaobesityferries.html
|
| CurrentSea |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 12:55:03
Not sure that formula applies here:
This formula, L X B/15, has been around a long, long, time. I have traced it as far back as the 1940’s. In the boating world, that is ancient. It has shown up in a lot of well respected boating publications, books, and even in the US Coast Guard Boatbuilders Handbook. It is not the formula that boat manufacturers and builders are required to use to determine persons capacity for recreational boats, or for commercial passenger carrying boats. The formula is a rule of thumb. It is only meant to be used as a rough estimate. It is in the handbook only as a way to estimate the number of passengers. It is also only intended for use with small mono-hull boats, usually outboard powered but it has been used for small inboards. It should never be used for boats more than 25 or 26 feet in length. It is simply not applicable to larger boats
Taken from http://newboatbuilders.com/docs/BoatCapacityVSAvailableSeating.pdf |
| L. Keith |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 12:47:01
Wille, I very much understand weight and balance, you also need to account for tank levels, vessel design, vessel construction, vessel service and route of operation plus many more factors. Read my previous two (2) post on this matter. What I am pointing out is there is a mathematical "Formula" for maximum capacity of persons that is published in "Boater Safety Booklets" by many state regulatory agencies charged with enforcement of boating safety and by at least one (1)national boating safety group.
The only true way to determine capacity is to conduct a plan review of the boat, observe and document actual construction of the boat, conduct a incline experiment of each boat after construction and final fitting out and preparing a "Stability Booklet" for each individual boat based on numerous loading arrangements, vessel service and intended route. |
| BoatCrazy |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 12:40:46
Dave, totally not justifying it at all. Just showing, that 27 people on that boat, yes it is over occupied, but its certainly not tight.
|
| stmbtwle |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 12:25:28
There's more to it than just weight, you have to determine where that weight is likely to be.
There's going to be a big difference in results depending on whether those 33 persons are in the cabin, or on the fly bridge..
It's my understanding that the problem with the "Tippy Vickies" was they were a large cabin version of an older, perfectly safe boat. The larger cabin provided a larger roof, which allowed more people (weight) on the fly bridge (oops).
Raise G far enough, and you're going to have a problem. |
| L. Keith |
Posted - Jul 11 2012 : 12:13:53
Does anybody know what EXACT size, year and model Silverton that was involved? There is a very basic formula, used by many state agencies and national boater's groups that can be used to determine "Safe Capacity" of a boat if not fitted with a capacity plate. It is L X W divided by 15= Number of person (150lbs) (L=Length, W=Width). Based on non-technical information a Silverton 34C, early model, is 34' X 12.6' which would give an estimated maximum capacity of persons (150 lbs person) of 28. A newer model 36c with 37'7"(rounded down to 37.5' for easy math) X 13'10' (rounded down to 13.5' for easy math) would have an estimated maximum capacity of person (150 lbs persons) of 33.
I am not saying those are safe numbers or unsafe numbers, that formula is what is set out there for the non-technical public to use as a guide. |
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