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 My first run in with police on the water!

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T O P I C    R E V I E W
CurrentSea Posted - Nov 17 2017 : 16:12:11
This will be an interesting story. Love to hear the comments.

On July 30th of this year I was operating my boat in what is known as the North Channel on the south shore of long island. It is a wide channel that runs from the mainland out to what is known as the flats which are not dredged and can run from zero to 6' depending on the area.

I was following a buddy. I saw a police boat cutting across the flats at a high rate of speed with his lights on, he was on my starboard. At first I thought he was pulling over my buddy, but then he turned and headed in my direction. It looked like he would easily clear my path since I was doing about 25 and he was doing like 50. Either way I slowed down, which I do slowly as I don't like water to run back over platform and came to a stop. By this time the police boat has continued to head in my direction and circled me and stopped.

The officer yelled, “what are you doing captain”. I said “I stopped”. He said, “no you are supposed to make an evasive maneuver to show me that you see me and acknowledge that you see me”.
He took my license and registration and left. The reason was because they were transporting a injured person to an awaiting ambulance on the mainland.

Now, I fully know about turning behind another boat and giving right away. I didn’t turn for a couple of reasons. One, it would of taken me out of the channel, thereby putting my vessel in danger of running aground hard. Two, I sort of turn towards him at first but turned back when I saw that when I turned towards him, he turned towards me, so that put us on a true collision course and he was moving very fast. So my decision was to slow down and stop and turn after I stopped.

The officer who was yelling was not driving. The driver of the boat seemed a little novice as he had a hard time pulling next to me with a twin engine outboard boat. So I think the officer thought we were on a collision course but in reality it was because his driver turned towards me, when according the navigation law, if the give-way vessel can’t turn to avoid the stand-on vessel then the stand-on vessel should turn to avoid putting the 2 boats on a collision course.

So eventually they came back and gave me the ticket and book of nav rules.

I then went to court as the summons was for reckless operation which requires court.
First day in court, the DA says bring your abstract, which is a copy of your driver’s license convictions.
I did and had my second day in court today.

On my second day, DA says he doesn’t know Navigation law and asked to have a chance to review.
A hour later I go in front of judge again and he says normally this would result in a suspension of my right to operate a boat but they will let me take a boating safety course (which I took before) but they want one dated after the incident. Now mind you, I have not been proven guilty, I have not faced my accuser. I have not had a chance to even tell my side of the story. I did ask if I could and the judge said no, because I may further incriminate myself and asked if I can take the course and come back

So now I have to take the course and return to court with proof I took the course! Also the cop never showed either time. Talk about a waste of tax dollars!

50   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
WALSHIE Posted - Feb 02 2018 : 10:31:11
I'm with Walter, this is BS
walterv Posted - Feb 01 2018 : 18:39:55
Your entire ordeal just pisses me off. You handled things like a gentleman, and saw this through. Probably the best way to do this. I am a bit of a hot head, and once the cop left, I too would have left. Second, after the dismissal, I would sue the cop, the court and suffolk county for wages lost and your time. Small claims court. It is not about the money, but to slow this prick cop down for the next boater that has to deal with this. Just venting, this crap pisses me off!
River Runner Posted - Jan 31 2018 : 14:05:45
quote:
Originally posted by gcolton

My only experience with police on the water was the day the local Coast Guard pulled me over for an inspection. Coincidentally, that was also the day that I had my 24 year old daughter and 4 of her friends with me on the boat. They found nothing wrong with the boat.

George



I would hope that they found nothing wrong with the boat since they were probably not inspecting IT. I would guess that your daughter and her friends passed the inspection since you got no ticket. I would have told them "Come on boys, let's not make this obvious!"
gcolton Posted - Jan 30 2018 : 10:22:57
quote:
Originally posted by easttnboater

"was issued a ticket for going 8 mph in a 0(yes that is a zero) mph zone"

What is a zero mph zone? Were you driving on the side walk?



I do not know what it was. Neither did the judge or DA.
easttnboater Posted - Jan 30 2018 : 09:15:23
"was issued a ticket for going 8 mph in a 0(yes that is a zero) mph zone"

What is a zero mph zone? Were you driving on the side walk?
gcolton Posted - Jan 29 2018 : 11:35:08
My only experience with police on the water was the day the local Coast Guard pulled me over for an inspection. Coincidentally, that was also the day that I had my 24 year old daughter and 4 of her friends with me on the boat. They found nothing wrong with the boat.

The only speeding ticket I have ever been issued was in Sunnyvale, California. I was driving my TR-4 home from work and was issued a ticket for going 8 mph in a 0(yes that is a zero) mph zone. Needless to say, neither the Judge nor the District Attorney was very impressed with the ticket.

George
CurrentSea Posted - Jan 29 2018 : 07:43:43
I don't think the officer who wrote the ticket cares about the outcome.
He never showed once.

Victorias Secret Posted - Jan 28 2018 : 20:37:54
Good news Dave, glad to hear you won in the end. This was sure very long and drawn out..
CurrentSea Posted - Jan 27 2018 : 08:51:33
The judge, Honorable Patrica Flynn has been great thru this. She is very impartial and I enjoyed watching her work.
She is very liberal as she seems to a firm believer in second chances. She also makes the DA make the decisions.
In other words she wants to DA to make a offer for her to affirm, but she feeds the DA ideas.
I would of locked up a few of the people that came in front of me if I was the judge.

Her comment to me after reading the ticket again was, "Is must be hard to see smaller boats with flashing lights on the water in the daytime!"
So she feeds the DA ideas as she works to dismiss cases.

Other cases I saw:

Girl for dog abuse. I would of locked her up. She got off with can't own any pets for 2 years.
Petty larceny for a young kid. Mom asked judge to arrest her. Judge told her mom to get an attorney and come back.
Numerous MV accidents.
Numerous bench warrants. Amazes me how many people don't show for court dates!
I am amazed when they fine someone $200 and the person asks for 6 months to pay. Wow. There was a 66yo well dressed guy, he needed 6 months. His suit looked like it was worth $200.

The attorney's are clearly the slime in the mix.
There is one guy that looks at the cases for the days and right there on the spot, tries to convince them that he can get them a better deal. I guess that is a true ambulance chaser.

The sad one was an attorney showed up and told judge his client OD and died last night, so his client won't be there.
Judge said get me a death certificate. Smart!

j-d Posted - Jan 27 2018 : 08:41:06
I'm glad. Stuff like this can always take a bad bounce at the last minute and it's great this one didn't. Dave, you've been very patient!
boatbum Posted - Jan 27 2018 : 08:08:10
Way to go Dave!
Dani-Lu Posted - Jan 26 2018 : 21:51:09
Congrats.

Robski97 Posted - Jan 26 2018 : 21:34:23
goodnews !!!!!1
CurrentSea Posted - Jan 26 2018 : 13:58:58
Case Dismissed!
Lost 3 more hours sitting there but DA looked at boater safety certificate and dismissed it!

psalzer Posted - Nov 30 2017 : 12:19:23
I have my own experience with law enforcement on th the water. Several years ago my wife, 2 daughters (age 10-6) were on a local lake midweek, there were 2 boats on the lake. Boat #1 was us and boat #2 was the local sheriffs marine patrol. My wife was skiing, daughters were wearing life jackets, we were enjoying the day.. I noticed the Sheriff boat overtaking me with blue lights on, waving me to stop. Hmm, what could he want. He wanted to cite me for not having a qualified observer! I told Home my 10 year old daughter was the observer, he said “she is not old enough, she must be over 12”. News to be as the regulation said “ qualified observer”being she had been skiing since she was 5 years old in my opinion she was more than qualified. The officer disagreed, said she must be over 12 years old, I asked if he could show me that in writing somewhere, he was not sure. I pointed out to hi. ThT we were the only ones on the water ( the reason we use the boat mid week),I also asked how many times on a busy weekend he saw boats with “qualified observers” doing anything but observing. I told him that when I told my daughter to “watch your Mama, that’s what she did. After some thought and a safety check he agreed. All ended up being well, but he was aggressive at first.
CurrentSea Posted - Nov 30 2017 : 08:00:05
quote:
Originally posted by pdecat

With all the crime on LI you have to question the DA's priority spending time on this stuff.



Long Island is not a crime capital. I beg to differ with this comment. We have pockets of bad neighborhoods but very low crime rates. Most of the cases I see in court are related to driving without license, petty larceny, etc.

ALKA2710 Posted - Nov 29 2017 : 11:34:54
I found away to mentally except this situation that Dave is in and all you have to do is look at in a different way. And that way is look at all the dumb stuff I have done that I could have gotten a ticket for and got away with it. I am way ahead of the game.
Al
pdecat Posted - Nov 29 2017 : 10:48:22
With all the crime on LI you have to question the DA's priority spending time on this stuff.
CurrentSea Posted - Nov 29 2017 : 10:18:55
If I thought for a second that my ability to operate a boat or that this could affect my ability to get my Captains's license some day, then I would of hired an attorney. I never thought that was the case, until the last meeting when the smartass DA said it could result in my revocation of my ability to operate a boat. If he would of pursued that, then I would of asked for a postponement so I could get an attorney!

I have treated this as a joke since day 1 and it is and still is.
Therefore, I am handling it on my own without an attorney.

Hopefully the next meeting is the end and this is done and lesson learned by a bunch of us.

JVM225 Posted - Nov 29 2017 : 09:24:53
quote:
Originally posted by walterv

JVM,
My anger is not with you or your post, but this particular cop. Your posts have always been fair and balanced, as I hope you have seen mine are. This cop was a prick, and to spend money to defend something that you did not do just pisses me off!!! That is the anger!!!




After seeing my handle at the beginning of your post (“JVM, In all due respect”) and reading the line in the middle of it directing “Stop defending a asshole cop” I must have misunderstood. If so, I apologize.
walterv Posted - Nov 28 2017 : 20:39:41
JVM,
My anger is not with you or your post, but this particular cop. Your posts have always been fair and balanced, as I hope you have seen mine are. This cop was a prick, and to spend money to defend something that you did not do just pisses me off!!! That is the anger!!!
GeeBee Posted - Nov 28 2017 : 11:32:54
One of my favorite radio shows is "Handel On The Law" out of Los Angeles. The show's slogan, "Marginal Legal Advice, where I tell you that you have no case"
The situation here is described multiple times on the show. As Bill Handel says, "Hey, you got screwed, you want justice? Pay up". As he said the other day, you can pay or you can just say you got screwed and get on with your life. But, at least in America you can get justice. That is so true.

I've been in places and situations where that is not true. I had to escort one of my passengers, a Guatemalan Indian out of Guatemala City airport one night when the authorities were getting ready to put him down some rat hole, where he would die or be killed, just because he was an Indian. As they were hassling him, I put my arm around him, said "Hey Amigo" and walked him out of there and into a cab where I gave the cab driver 20 bucks and said take him anywhere he wants to go. They did not interfere with me because I am "American El Hefe" and with that, I had all the authority in the world. I've been in Africa where I saw a man dumped out of a wheel chair and a rifle barrel put to his head because he greeted us at the hotel entrance. I've paid 5000 dollars to a Mexican Airport Commandante just to get my airplane back because he claimed there was something wrong with my paper work (there always is something wrong with your paper work in Mexico). I am regularly and without any suspicion breathalyzed before my passengers in Amsterdam. I'v had my cell phone "searched" for no reason (other than to see if I had any porno on it) whatsoever in Dubai.

Point is this. Yeah it sucked, but no one got hurt, justice could be had if you wanted it. As Bill Handel says, suck it up and if you want justice go get it if you think the price is worth it. It can be had in America, other places, not so much.

JVM225 Posted - Nov 28 2017 : 10:13:03
quote:
Originally posted by walterv

JVM, In all due respect, Dave had a cop, that was a prick, asshole, and just a f-ng maroon. The problem here is why the F should he have to hire an attorney to show the court he was right and the cop was wrong?? The system is rigged, the cops know that and hence the working man cannot afford to pay all this money for attorneys and time off. Stop defending a asshole cop. I do agree, most cops are good, but this guy was a total dick!! Dave was very passive in this and the cop took full advantage of that. Now me, I would want records that he was transporting an injured person to get him to an ambulance on shore, I bet that was BS since Dave saw no one and he spent 15 minutes or so jerking Dave's chain. So when the day would be done, I know the cop was full of Sh$t and would sue that prick!





Walter, you are dead wrong here.
I’ve been reading your posts in this forum for a number of years now and generally find them to be well thought out and valuable, but you are way off base here and your anger towards my comments is misguided.
Again, please read my posts in this thread carefully before getting hot under the collar about my perceived defense of the officer and point out where you see that I’ve done so..
In fact, feel free to quote in context anything you find, and if I’m mistaken I’ll be quick to apologize and clarify.
I haven’t defended the cop or his actions with regards to the issuance of the summons at all. In fact, since I wasn’t there, I’ve refrained from making a judgement about the interaction on the water that day completely. If anything, if you read my comments, other than clarifying the legality of the Officer holding on to the driver license until he returned, I’ve gone out of my way to remain neutral with regards to the summons.
You may have mistaken my neutrality as an indictment of Dave because I haven’t taken his side either in the interaction between him and the officer and the issuance of the summons. If so, you are dead wrong.
Again, I wasn’t there.
Completely separate issue: the court process.
I did recommend that Dave hire a Lawyer to protect himself in the court system with regards to the summons. That’s is in no way a defense of the officer or his actions. It’s a separate issue. In fact, I offered that advise solely to see him protect himself. Not to defend the court system. I think that was pretty clear in all of my comments.
Dave chose not to hire a Lawyer, and while I don’t agree with that decision in general and would have rathered pay the $700 myself, I see his point of view and I’m glad that he didn’t lose money from work and seems okay with having to take the course.
I’m especially glad that the penalty wasn’t worse because I still believe it is dangerous to represent yourself in these things regardless of guilt or innocence.
Good Grief Posted - Nov 28 2017 : 07:30:12
Not a 'Dive flag' (red square w/ white diagonal stripe), but an orange triangular pennant - from the NJ Boating Safety Manual, under Waterskiing -

7. All ski boats shall display a signal pennant which shall be orange
in color and triangular in shape and not less than 12 inches in any
dimension.
8. The pennant shall be displayed at least four feet above the highest
structure on the boat during each of the following activities;
A. While pulling or retrieving a skier
B. While a skier is in the water; or
C. While a tow line is in the water.
9. A person shall not display the pennant at any other time other than
while conducting any of the activities described above in #8.

Padraig Posted - Nov 28 2017 : 07:09:53
A dive flag while towing a tube? That seems strange. I was always taught your dive flag should only be used when divers were in the water.

Padraig
Stephen Posted - Nov 27 2017 : 23:00:55
I had a run-in with the police this year too. In South NJ where I was towing a tube with my kids. There were two cops in the boat and I saw them earlier go up river. When they came back some 30 minutes later, they slowed and I knew they were going to say something. I had already mentally checked everything - PFD's, running lights, everyone seated who was not in the tube, lookout facing stern, registration at the ready. Sure enough, he lit up the light and came to my port side. He asked if I had a dive flag and I said "no" (the truth). He then went on to tell me that even though I didn't have divers, I needed a red dive flag hung on the boat to tow a tube. I asked him if he wanted to board me to check my extinguishers and lights and he declined. I asked him if he wanted me to leave and he said "no, just get it for next time". So when I got home I checked. Sure enough, I should have a red flag in NJ. So I blew the $15 or so to get one for next year. So my experience was a good one this time. I had a bad one many years ago where some douchebag cop yelled at me for my wake when I was going with the tide at minimum speed. I even called his superior the next day to complain, but I got nowhere with that. I didn't get a ticket, but it was still was annoying. Wouldn't it be ironic if it was the same cop this year!
walterv Posted - Nov 27 2017 : 21:18:25
JVM, In all due respect, Dave had a cop, that was a prick, asshole, and just a f-ng maroon. The problem here is why the F should he have to hire an attorney to show the court he was right and the cop was wrong?? The system is rigged, the cops know that and hence the working man cannot afford to pay all this money for attorneys and time off. Stop defending a asshole cop. I do agree, most cops are good, but this guy was a total dick!! Dave was very passive in this and the cop took full advantage of that. Now me, I would want records that he was transporting an injured person to get him to an ambulance on shore, I bet that was BS since Dave saw no one and he spent 15 minutes or so jerking Dave's chain. So when the day would be done, I know the cop was full of Sh$t and would sue that prick!

JVM225 Posted - Nov 25 2017 : 08:45:54
quote:
Originally posted by WALSHIE

My point is, you did nothing wrong so you are not "lucky".
It's great that you have a flexible schedule and can be so chill about this.

Anyway, all's well that ends well.



You’d have to read all of my posts in this thread to put my use of the word “lucky” in proper context.
How was he “lucky”?
Because I wasn’t there and don’t know enough about it, I’m not making any sort of judgement call on the initial interaction between him and the officer that issued the summons so my use of the word “lucky” has nothing to do with that.
Nor am I voicing any opinion on whether or not the summons should have been issued.
That horse had left the barn before this thread had started.
I’ve never met Dave but have read his posts over the years. Based on that, I suspect he is a nice guy, and a competent law abiding boater who would never intentionally do anything dangerous or illegal in the water.
I have no opinions about the Officer or his actions during this interaction at all.
IMHO which is based on my experience and strictly limited in this instance to the ongoing court case: Dave was “lucky” in that he went to court without representation and if all goes as he thinks it will he will have only had to take the course and not pay a big fine or suffer any other penalty that may adversely impact his insurance for the next few years. He is “lucky” that he has the time to take to make the appearances without loss of pay.
He was “lucky” because things could have gone a lot worse for him without representation.
GeeBee Posted - Nov 24 2017 : 10:26:57
I think it is like everything and everyone else. There are those who are good and those who are a-holes. Unfortunately in our system to deal with the a-holes requires time and money. Most people like CurrentSea have more valuable things to do with their time so they just swallow the bile and deal with it. What is important is to "grieve it later". Another words, don't get in an argument with the officer. Take your grievance to court and let the court do the rebuking. I had a case about 8 years ago, and while I was convicted in a traffic court, when I took it to Superior Court the officer knew he was cooked and it was all dropped. Message sent.

November Charlie Posted - Nov 22 2017 : 19:08:39
quote:
Originally posted by Joeshoes

Yep you do not have to be an overpaid professional black athlete to be abused by these 3rd rate cops.. Jimmy Breslin said it best 40 years ago "A cop is a third string high school athlete who, after a stint in the Marine Corp, cannot get a job paying more for doing less."

Everyone has an "abuse of power" story and they ain't pretty. ..... From one whose father was a NYC cop.

Let the flames begin...



I disagree. Most LEO’s are decent people that are on the job for the right reason - and most also have little tolerance for those that personalize enforcement decisions. “He/she didn’t bend the knee, so I wrote the V” is an unpopular attitude nowadays. As we see in the OP of this thread, though, it is not yet extinct. I, and every other colleague I respect in a training and/or supervisory position will continue trying to train that out of people, but the antiquated attitudes of enforcement option decision making where personal feelings and ego play even the SLIGHTEST role unfortunately still persist. The only personal feelings that should enter that decision process is “do I feel that compliance will be reasonably attained” with the intended action. Writing a bunch of “add-ons” (those violations that are almost always there but nobody ever writes unless they help paint a bigger picture, like the improper display of state numbers on probably 85% of boats) because somebody is a jerk to an officer is abusing authority. It may be perceived as a minor thing, and some would even call it justified, but it never is, no matter how minor. Now - adding them up because the operator makes it plain he does NOT get the point and gives no indication of intended compliance - absolutely. That is the idea behind penalties - to compel compliance with laws and regulations. Nothing wrong with properly enforcing them. But not to avenge hurt feelings.


(Edited for clarity and to remove an unintended slight)
CurrentSea Posted - Nov 22 2017 : 12:08:01
Yeah, the first date was a concern but that concern went away.
After that, the judge was very nice and let me pick the next 2 dates.

Another thing that is interesting is just sitting there and watching the whole process.
You learn alot about what is wrong with this country and our legal system and people in power and how things work.
If you have never been in a court, I recommend it. Anyone can go. No need to have a case.

WALSHIE Posted - Nov 22 2017 : 12:01:57
My point is, you did nothing wrong so you are not "lucky".
It's great that you have a flexible schedule and can be so chill about this.

Anyway, all's well that ends well.
CurrentSea Posted - Nov 22 2017 : 11:10:08
Walshie,
Don't sweat it. Everyone reacts differently to things. Some people can't afford to miss 3 part days of work, so they would rather pay to make it go away. To me, If this was a ticket and not a summons, I would of just paid it and been done. But there was no way to pay. I had to show up.
Just having gone thru a divorce once where I paid my attorney thru the nose to do so little, I just am not a fan of attorneys. I am not one to pay to make it go away unless I want to fight it and I didn't want to fight it. Just happy to keep my boat to boat another day and nothing wrong with a little extra safety training. I also want my Captain's license someday, so just glad this won't affect that if dismissed!

WALSHIE Posted - Nov 22 2017 : 09:37:37
quote:
Originally posted by JVM225

quote:
Originally posted by CurrentSea

I disagree - Hiring an attorney would of cost me probably about $700
I am out nothing.
How do you figure that?
Lost wages - I think I said, I work more than 40 hours a week and I am salaried, so I lose nothing showing up.





To each his own. That’s why Baskin Robbins offers 31 flavors.
I’d rather pay the $700 then make the minimum 3 appearances and spend the time taking a course I’d already taken, and take the chance of saying something that might sink me in court. Plus, after nearly 4 decades of exposure to the justice system the two things that I consider important are never get involved in it without being represented by a competent attorney who practices that kind of law, and most importantly, you have the right to remain silent and other than basic pedigree information you should always exercise that right if you are, or may be, the subject of any kind of enforcement action. Even just for summonses.
If taking the course is your only penalty, you could take the time to make the three appearances, and don’t mind doing so, then it works out for you and you saved $700. You were very lucky.



OK, that gets my goat up! How was he very lucky? Dave did absolutely NOTHING WRONG!

When I had my 5 bogus summons dismissed the police officer asked me "do you have anything else you want to say"? I said yes, I have plenty but if you are expecting me to thank you for exonerating me on trumped up charges, you can hold your breath.

I have the ultimate respect for law enforcement, but there are some overly aggressive jerks. Luckily they are in the super minority.
CurrentSea Posted - Nov 22 2017 : 08:34:22
I think I will invest in Knee Pads.
Everyone is taking a knee these days.
NFL
Actresses
Interns
Politicians

Some take the knew in protest, some to get aHEAD at work and some to pray!
LOL


HappyKamper Posted - Nov 21 2017 : 20:54:44
This whole thread is a good example why the NFL guys are taking a knee.
( However, I don’t agree with how they are protesting)
JVM225 Posted - Nov 21 2017 : 20:51:18
quote:
Originally posted by ALKA2710

Traffic Attorney costs 500 bucks to get rid of a summons. My daughter just got a speeding ticket, going way over the speed limit. We made the call to a traffic attorney and she didn't even have to show up in court. He took care of the whole thing and pled down to a parking violation. This was also in Suffolk County. She did have to pay a hefty fine but too be honest she deserved it.



Money well spent! The increase in insurance alone for the next few years would easily wipe out the $500 and then some.
My daughter is 20 and my son is 17. Insurance is a killer.
A friend of my daughter since pre-school got pulled over a few months after he got his license for a lane change and headlight and wound up with 5 summonses for a variety of things that I can’t remember. Anyway, the parents are friends of ours.
He’s a great kid who swears he was humble when pulled over. Considering the number of summonses he got, that may or may not have been true. I wasn’t there so I don’t know.
They asked me what I thought they should do. I told them to hire a Lawyer. Someone else told them that they shouldn’t waste their money because the judge would see he’s just a kid and that the cop was picking on him and that’s why he got 5 tickets. I guess that made them feel better.
They let the kid go to court by himself. It didn’t go well in court and they won’t even discuss what happened with the insurance.
JVM225 Posted - Nov 21 2017 : 19:18:12
quote:
Originally posted by CurrentSea

I disagree - Hiring an attorney would of cost me probably about $700
I am out nothing.
How do you figure that?
Lost wages - I think I said, I work more than 40 hours a week and I am salaried, so I lose nothing showing up.





To each his own. That’s why Baskin Robbins offers 31 flavors.
I’d rather pay the $700 then make the minimum 3 appearances and spend the time taking a course I’d already taken, and take the chance of saying something that might sink me in court. Plus, after nearly 4 decades of exposure to the justice system the two things that I consider important are never get involved in it without being represented by a competent attorney who practices that kind of law, and most importantly, you have the right to remain silent and other than basic pedigree information you should always exercise that right if you are, or may be, the subject of any kind of enforcement action. Even just for summonses.
If taking the course is your only penalty, you could take the time to make the three appearances, and don’t mind doing so, then it works out for you and you saved $700. You were very lucky.
ALKA2710 Posted - Nov 21 2017 : 17:56:43
Traffic Attorney costs 500 bucks to get rid of a summons. My daughter just got a speeding ticket, going way over the speed limit. We made the call to a traffic attorney and she didn't even have to show up in court. He took care of the whole thing and pled down to a parking violation. This was also in Suffolk County. She did have to pay a hefty fine but too be honest she deserved it.
boatbum Posted - Nov 21 2017 : 17:13:39
I went to fight a missing front license plate in court in Rosendale NY. The judge asked me if I wanted to spend a night in jail. He was a boozer. The whole court smelled of his sorry a$$. At least the fine was reduced to 5 bucks.
Hopefully you are more lucky!
HOGAN Posted - Nov 21 2017 : 16:22:26
quote:
Originally posted by Reel Antsy

quote:
Originally posted by Padraig

If the officer who charged you is not there.....ask the judge to dismiss charges.

Padraig


Absolutely. The cop is the state's witness and if he's not there, I would have moved for dismissal...



The cop only has to be there for a trial. If he doesn't show up for trial, the case can be dismissed
CurrentSea Posted - Nov 21 2017 : 16:02:45
I disagree - Hiring an attorney would of cost me probably about $700
I am out nothing.
How do you figure that?
Lost wages - I think I said, I work more than 40 hours a week and I am salaried, so I lose nothing showing up.

JVM225 Posted - Nov 21 2017 : 14:24:13
quote:
Originally posted by WALSHIE

My experience. I received a ticket for not having a valid NY drivers license on Long Island. I had moved to CT, turned in my NY license, had a valid CT license....however, I had a speeding ticket from 10yrs prior that I didn't address (asked for trial, never heard back, etc). So, technically my right to drive in NY was revoked (weird but I get it).

I cleared up the speeding ticket, paid it 10 years later, the original officer wasn't there. But another officer represented him, we plead it down, all good. He did say if I wanted, we can schedule a trial, I chose not to.

Went to LI, the officer didn't show up, I thought I was golden since the officer was not there. NOPE, the DA said this is a pre-trial hearing. I'd have to come back if I want a real trial...considering the distance, I plead it down, paid and left.

Also, I once had a bad dealing with a hot-head officer. He wrote me 5 violations, one I was guilty of (expired registration) and was NASTY. I use a lawyer, requested the deposition, didn't get it. Lawyer sent me alone to the court date to ask for a dismissal. All 5 were dismissed even though the officer was there. HOWEVER, my attorney informed me they will dismiss the tickets but reserve the right to re-issue them...so don't be a jerk.

That's my experiences with this officer no-show business.



Exactly my point! Most of these type violations are adjudicated without a trial.
Personally, as an otherwise law abiding citizen, I would never ask for a trial for a minor violation offense. I think it’s just asking for trouble.
But to each his own.
However, I stand by my original advice in that in matters like these you are much better off paying a Lawyer who specializes in these things for an appearance. They know the system, prosecutors, and judges and have the best idea on how to present it so that you get the best possible outcome as quickly as possible.
Your better off standing by your Lawyers side with your mouth shut and being guided by his advice if a question is directed at you.
WALSHIE Posted - Nov 21 2017 : 12:42:10
My experience. I received a ticket for not having a valid NY drivers license on Long Island. I had moved to CT, turned in my NY license, had a valid CT license....however, I had a speeding ticket from 10yrs prior that I didn't address (asked for trial, never heard back, etc). So, technically my right to drive in NY was revoked (weird but I get it).

I cleared up the speeding ticket, paid it 10 years later, the original officer wasn't there. But another officer represented him, we plead it down, all good. He did say if I wanted, we can schedule a trial, I chose not to.

Went to LI, the officer didn't show up, I thought I was golden since the officer was not there. NOPE, the DA said this is a pre-trial hearing. I'd have to come back if I want a real trial...considering the distance, I plead it down, paid and left.

Also, I once had a bad dealing with a hot-head officer. He wrote me 5 violations, one I was guilty of (expired registration) and was NASTY. I use a lawyer, requested the deposition, didn't get it. Lawyer sent me alone to the court date to ask for a dismissal. All 5 were dismissed even though the officer was there. HOWEVER, my attorney informed me they will dismiss the tickets but reserve the right to re-issue them...so don't be a jerk.

That's my experiences with this officer no-show business.
HOGAN Posted - Nov 21 2017 : 11:20:10
As a lawyer for over 30 years, and a former prosecutor, you cannot be convicted by the court or a jury without the testimony of the accuser.

Yes, you can plea bargain, and plead guilty without the cop appearing, but if you demand a trial and he doesn't show, the case gets dismissed.

Dave has said that it's not worth his time/money to fight it any more. He should ask for a dismissal based on taking the course, or at the least, ask for an Adjournment in Contemplation of Dismissal (ACD) - the court adjourns the case for 6 months, and so long as he doesn't get in any other trouble, the case automatically gets dismissed.
JVM225 Posted - Nov 21 2017 : 11:10:09
quote:
Originally posted by November Charlie

quote:
Originally posted by JVM225



While I have no experience with emergency response on the water, I have a ton of it on land and can say that it is extremely frustrating and dangerous when you have the lights and siren going and someone doesn’t yield properly.






I'm the opposite - I have little experience with the land side, but a ton of experience with maritime L/E. Both individually and as an Instructor. I can tell you that the 1972 International Regulations for the Prevention of Collision at Sea, and the Inland Navigation Rules which largely incorporate them by reference, make absolutely no special provision for a law enforcement vessel aside from stating that a flashing blue light identifies a law enforcement vessel. There is NOTHING within that indicates a vessel must take any particular action when sighting such lights at any range, but there is plenty indicating the proper conduct of vessels in all other situations. It really is a whole different world than 'street' L/E - the very nature of operating a boat is a world apart from operating a M/V.

First indication I had the officer in this anecdote is VERY boot and clueless - he was using his blues for a SAR case. I VERY seldom use them (and train the same) because you know what the 99% reaction is when a boater sees them? They come to all stop right in the middle of the damned channel. They completely lose their situational awareness, ignore all other traffic, don't think about the impact or interruption to traffic, their obligations undertake rules, regulations, and customs of mariners. They foul up the world around them in whatever waterway it is, and almost ALWAYS cause the opposite effect. You want people out of your way? Blip the siren, stick an arm out the pilothouse window and wave them away, call them on the VHF, but unless you need to build your narrative for someone refusing to heave to, don't EVER use blue lights if you want someone OUT of your way. Dollar to a dime this guy has ZERO training in MLE and got himself assigned to a boat assuming 'street' L/E and MLE must be same same.

The next is seizing property, detaining the operator, and inducing him to operate in violation of federal regulations for what boils down to perceived contempt of cop. (It does. We can probably all agree on that) And doing so while delaying transport of a patient that was deemed urgent enough to cause this interaction in the first place. Which is it? PT was so urgent you had no time to spare to obey the law while charged with enforcing it, or patient was so unimportant you had time to go off the reservation and do all of the above - in which case, how on EARTH is the violation justified?



You’re questioning the Officer’s tactics and procedure based on a fact pattern as relayed to you by one side and I think that based on your experience you are correct to do so.
I think Dave also has the right to do so, and there are likely avenues for him to pursue that through the Officer’s Department if he chooses.
My extensive experience in investigating not only criminal cases, but a wide spectrum of matters involving Police Officers actions, conduct, and compliance with procedures at a supervisory, and later command, level has taught me to never come to a conclusion without hearing both sides and examining the evidence so I’ll reserve judgement and not second guess the Officer or Dave.
That doesn’t change whether on land, in the air, or out on the water.
JVM225 Posted - Nov 21 2017 : 10:53:32
quote:
Originally posted by GeeBee

Yeah, the officer does not have to be there. This Sixth Amendment is highly over rated IMHO.




Doesn’t apply here yet.
This is why I recommend that people in these situations get a Lawyer rather than taking legal advice from people who think they understand every aspect of the law and court procedure because they read the constitution.
The proceedings he has appeared for are hearings not a trial. The overwhelming majority of violation offenses in this State are resolved at hearings. He has the right to counsel at these hearings, and I strongly suggest that people in these situations avail themselves of that counsel, but most don’t. Relying instead on what they think they know about the law, or advice that laymen have given them. That’s why the overwhelming majority of them are found guilty.
Should he demand a trial by jury he can have it in accordance with the 6th amendment and he’ll absolutely have the right to be represented by counsel, face his accuser, present witnesses, etc..
That might be kind of crazy though.
Should he demand a trial for this incident to make a point it would be a real roll of the dice and will likely not go well for him if he loses.
Again, I’m not a Lawyer, but I have testified in my fair share of criminal and traffic cases over a 25 year career in Law Enforcement, and continued involvement during the next 12 years as a Private Investigator and my overall assessment of Judges is that they are not necessarily sympathetic to people who they feel may be wasting the courts time and resources.
Had he hired a Lawyer who takes care of traffic and other violations from the beginning I suspect that this matter would have been resolved and put behind him after his first appearance and would have been cheaper in the long run.


HOGAN Posted - Nov 21 2017 : 10:34:25
quote:
Originally posted by GeeBee

Yeah, the officer does not have to be there. This Sixth Amendment is highly over rated IMHO.





Not true at all. If the cop doesn't show, demand that the ticket be dismissed. They cannot prosecute the case based on a the ticket, the cop MUST testify and be subject to cross examination.
CurrentSea Posted - Nov 21 2017 : 09:59:29
I was upset when it first happened.
Now its comical. I don't sweat the petty things!

The ticket states they had a injured passenger who was heading to an awaiting ambulance.
No disputing that.
For all I know the cop who is pissed off was the injured patient.
I assume they needed a reason to be racing across the bay with lights on, so they had to write something.


WALSHIE Posted - Nov 21 2017 : 09:35:16
This is all BS and if I were you, I'd be very, very upset!

Maybe he was on the way to get the patient and drop off elsewhere?

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