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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| TimHenn |
Posted - Aug 18 2010 : 20:36:32
I have a whole year to get my facts together but I already feel like I'm under the gun.
- Can anyone point me to the legal verbage that states "under 6 months" in Florida your ok for taxes? Why? See the next question.
- I'm planning on staging the boat around the middle of October in Southern Georgia (if there are tax implications) or Jacksonville, Fl (insurance coverage ends there) until end of Dec.
- End of Dec, move the boat to the West Palm Beach area. I need to be close to an airport for work. How is this area to stay in from Jan - April? (maybe May) I've seen a couple of nice marinas there. I will be visiting the area this winter to scope out a future home marina.
I think moving the boat in the October timeframe is a good idea to avoid a winter weather move. Not sure what the weather is like in northern Florida Jan 1st but it will be nicer than Boston!
I want to do the trip outside all the way down, the boat can safely do 250-300 miles a day at ~22kts (more if the weather and fuel stops line up nice) (50' LOA, 46k lbs, 607 gallons fuel)
I'll need some additional offshore gear (Epirb, sat phone, etc.) and a solid route plan.
I can't imagine I just invented this type of winter itinerary, is this how others limit the amount of insurance and avoid tax penalties? The timing seems right cause I looked into boat transports, they all leave the Newport, RI area middle of October....way too pricey for me but one of them would drop the boat in Freeport only a half day's ride to the Florida coast!
Tim
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| 50 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| TimHenn |
Posted - Oct 21 2010 : 20:53:09
Having never done the trip, i started by asking why I would ever want to go inside if the weather was nice.....skinny water, bridge openings, unmarked shoaling, traffic, speed limits....why would I want to put up with that!!! Since then, I've learned that there are plenty of reasons why the inside track is worth taking in many scenarios. I'm still not clear about speed limits and how difficult the channels can be to navigate but I definately see the reason's to go inside. At this point I'm planning on taking Pamlico bay south to Beaufort and then likely stay outside to Savannah. Haven't even looked at the trip from Savannah to Ft Lauderdale area but less concerned about that.
We sure did have a great summer and fall, hope next year is the same with calm seas in October to boot :)
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| giolic |
Posted - Oct 21 2010 : 20:20:19
Tim,
This year hasn't been that great since just after Labor Day for off shore activities as you know. Maybe that's the price we had to pay for such a great summer up here in the North East !
Last year was much better when we headed south so don't get to discouraged by what your seeing. I would still plan to take the inside once you get past Cape May, Virginia area if the weather isn't perfect then take the outside again at Cape Fear if you get the chance. We had very good weather last year from about Cape Fear to Fla and if you get the same you'll have a nice trip on the outside. There's really no reason to be on the outside around Cape Hatteras unless someone here can educate me on why someone would travel on the outside around that corner in a 45 'er headed south when they can take it easy on the inside regardless of the weather although this years ride through Pamlico bay was no picnic. |
| TimHenn |
Posted - Oct 21 2010 : 19:23:12
Cor,
My dock neighbor goes to West Palm beach every year and keeps his sailboat at a private dock. He said there isn't much inforcement of the tax rules for the most part. He said, if you stay at the larger marina's you run a higher risk of the tax laws as they inquire with the marina's about seasonal transients.
I read the florida law and it's very clear. You cannot stay 90 contiguous days or a cumulative of 183 in a calendar year and not be subject to the tax. My home marina is in RI and there is no tax there.
I wrote a program to record the relevant buoy data from Block Island, RI to Miami Florida. The program has recorded information from middle of September through the current date. When I depict the average wave height for each bouy for this period it is above 4' (average!!) so, yes, I can see how you can get very beat up running offshore. I'm still planning on having inside and outside routes so i can choose based on weather and other factors. I'm also setting expectations, for myself and crew, that we will take more time coming down. Now I got to take care of all the other things that could prevent me from making this trip. |
| folieadeux |
Posted - Oct 20 2010 : 14:03:24
I live in Savannah and we cruise the Jax,FL to Charleston,SC waters all the time. Savannah or Brunswick provides most all the items you need for a 2-3 month dockage deal. Savannah has a much better airport and the city offers more to see & do. The Isle of Hope area and Thunderbolt are both excellent locations in Savannah. IMHO the Brunswick Landings is the best in Brunswick but Golden Isles on St. Simons is nice. From Brunswick the best airport to use is the JAX facility but it is about an hour south so land transport may be an issue. |
| sabrejocky |
Posted - Oct 20 2010 : 13:17:48
As far as the tax thing, I am not sure, didn't you pay sales tax in your own state? I have friends with a 53 Hatteras and they go back and forth between Ft Lauderdale and the north east every year, they come and go as they please and have been doing so for well over 25 years, no tax issues there.
Your idea of running down here in 4 to 5 days needs some work though, like Pascal said running at speed outside is a whole different game than on protected waters. A former employer had a 100' Broward and on a run outside going up north they took a really beating, a forward bulkhead on the superstructure let go and they started taking on water, floading the crew quarters. An other time a friends boss wanted his 36' Intrepit in Costa Rica and had a crew run it down there for him. They got the boat there but it was ready for the scrapheap as it was beat to pieces.
Cor |
| giolic |
Posted - Oct 19 2010 : 22:15:10
Tim,
I just noticed you have a Silverton 45.
Very nice boat that will be fun to criuse the ICW as much as you can while headed south. |
| giolic |
Posted - Oct 13 2010 : 22:03:29
"Was this a delivery or was it your own yacht"
The owner has a full time capt. The boat spends the winter in the south and summers in the north. Some of the smaller boats stay on land in the north for the winter.
I'm a novice when it comes to cruising the east coast but wanted to share my observations.
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| boatbum |
Posted - Oct 09 2010 : 17:52:07
Bruce we met someone who took his lobster boat from Maine to Key West in 5 or 6 days. I think they stopped for fuel once along the way. |
| pdecat |
Posted - Oct 09 2010 : 13:21:39
Wow, all I can say is you guys are tough. 200 mile days in a powerboat and offshore to boot. I think that would kill me unless it was in a 200' boat with big crew. |
| PascalG |
Posted - Oct 09 2010 : 08:59:55
couple more thoughts...
there is a lot more to making good speed than the boat cruise speed and the weather forecast. the third critical item is hull shape and the boat ability to actually run at whatever it's cruise speed is supposed to. Because a boat can cruise at 22kts or 27kts or even over 30kts like some new sporfish, it doesn't mean that you will be able to or will want to.
i know it sounds obvious but it's often overlooked. Some boats will cut thru 6' waves as if they are not even there, others will slam and bang into 4 footers.
Make sure you crew is "qualified"... again it sounds obvious but there is a lot more to watch standing than be able to drive the boat straight or watch the AP. Your crew needs to understand a few things like
- the need to watch the seas ahead for dangers (anything from a log to a partially submerged container...)
- the importance of scanning instruments are set intervals, especially engine instruments to detect problems before they become serious.
- understand that offshore something simple may required investigation.. a small noise, smell, or the boat loosing even jsut a kt of speed for no obvious reason may be a sign of something about to go very wrong.
- if passing near buoys, make sure they are highlighted on charts so your crew is alert at the time (boats have run or had close calls with buoys becasue the crew wasnt paying attention)
in addition to the equipment you mentioned, double check your bilge pumping capacity. most production boats dont' have enough bilge pumps even for inland water operations. If something happens out there, loosing a shaft or whatever, a pair of 2000gph pumps isnt' going to give you time to solve the problem. have at least a back up 3700 rule ready to go on if needed.
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| TimHenn |
Posted - Oct 09 2010 : 08:57:38
Awesome, so you did the WHOLE trip from CT->Miami in 4 1/2 days mixing up outside/inside. I want to do RI->Savannah in 4-5 days and have a similar approach to yours...leave before sunrise, tied up, fueled up before dark if at all possible traveling a little bit slower. I can cruise 24 but that's the high end of the cruise range (WOT is 29).
Now I have to ask, you brought the boat to Ft Laud in Oct. How long will you keep the boat there? Was this a delivery or was it your own yacht? I ask cause of the whole tax thing. The reason I'm stopping in Savannah is to stay away from the 180 day cumulative stay in Florida rule. Someone told me you can go to the bahama's for a weekend and reset the counter...not so for the 180 days. Its 180 days in any year period. We plan to enter Florida Jan 1st and leave end of April, early May for the return trip.
Anyway, thanks for the trip information. Its great to hear other people's path from the north east down to florida.
I'm heading to the Annapolis boat show next week to help a friend shop for a boat and get some prices on equipment I'd like to have, mainly the sat weather gear but that's just a plug-in to my E120 I think.
Gotta figure out how to sweet talk George into crewing with me next year as well if anyone has any tips :) What is it? Cubans, scotch...I'll figure it out :)
Gotta figure out what marinas are going to charge me for 2 1/2 months of dockage in Brunswick or Savannah...I realized the airport thing is really only one drive/taxi ride so distance isn't that big of deal. When I return the wife will be bringing the car (and dog) so I can be dropped off at the boat with crew to finish the trip.
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| giolic |
Posted - Oct 09 2010 : 02:50:57
"You really don't have the range and speed to make it worth while to be on the outside the whole way"
You can make it on the outside. My comment was the time frame you want to do it in and I though you wanted to reach Miami.
Some areas are just better inside like Pascal and George stated
We left CT on Friday at 12:30 pm and only traveled a short distance down LIS to Stamford.
Sat Am we left before sunrise for Virginia Beach, Rudee's inlet. Made it before dark.
Sun AM we left before sunrise and ended up making it to wrightsville beach. entered Oregon inlet and took Pamlico bay and ICW to destination.
Mon Am we left before sunrise and headed south on the ICW and entered the ocean at cape fear and ended up in St Augustine FLA.
Tues Am we left before sunrise and ended up at rocioli yacht center in Fort Laud fla.
I flew home Wednesday
27 knts was the average speed in a yacht that can reach 40.
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| TimHenn |
Posted - Oct 08 2010 : 23:06:32
I appreciate all the information, I'm taking it all in (a full year in advance!) so I have the right equipment, information from experienced folks that are participating on this thread and other places. I will have (already have) several options (inside/outside) to make the trip. Even if I was comitted to traveling outside all the way, or most of the way, I wouldn't opt to travel if conditions weren't favorable to go offshore. I've been doing this for a while and have made some runs in nasty weather so I know I don't want to be out there if it's nasty. Though I've never run down the coast, that will be a first.
I picked up an inlets book (I think Pascal referenced it on another thread) so I could read about the particular inlets I want to hit and all the other ones in case I have to hit them.
"You really don't have the range and speed to make it worth while to be on the outside the whole way" I don't understand this. My plan is to average 200nm and even less a day. The boat has a range of 325 miles at cruise (average of 22kts), so, using the 1/3 rule I should be able to make 200nm a day no problem. If conditions aren't right I don't go, or, I take an inside route. I think this boat has good range to do this kind of trip but like nearly any other boat the weather has to cooperate. Factoring in wind, current and waves is something I will have to do each day before I decide to travel. If conditions aren't favorable, I don't go.
I'm interested, you said above you left Connecticut on a Saturday and on the 5th (4 days later) you were at Miami. I'm only planning on going from Rhode Island to Savannah Georgia in 4-5 days. How fast were you traveling? How long was your trip Miami from Connecticut?
I think I will have lay overs on the way down or just a day I don't want to travel. David, with regards to the Nimitz shifts, I'm not doing this solo. I will have a crew of about 4 where 1 or 2 can take the helm for a shift.
As for gear, I'm defintaly going to add the Satelite weather, that makes to much sense. I also want an epirb, life raft (rent one) and any other piece of equipment that makes sense even if it's considered overkill by some. I have to make the trip back 4 months later and *if* all goes well I will be doing this annually or maybe every other year.
I'll post a new trip schedule later, I'm taking the advice of pulling into Ocean City and will likely break that leg into two so I can opt to travel through NYC (stay there a night).
Thanks for all the comments, I love it!
Tim |
| giolic |
Posted - Oct 05 2010 : 14:43:07
Down near fort laud now Tim. You wouldn't have wanted to be on the outside this entire trip so far. Not even for 5 minutes. Think we might pull in at fort laud. Soon and take. Break instead of cont. Further south today.
I hope something I've shared helps you plan your trip |
| KiDa |
Posted - Oct 05 2010 : 13:59:24
That is a mighty aggressive schedule. Even the Nimitz changes watch every 4 hours. IMHO, by day three, you will be completely exhausted. Add to that the NC coast can get real sh!tty real fast. You have to be on your toes for that place.
What about a partial delivery? Pick up in Hampton, VA and take a leisurely cruise inside to Savannah in another 4-5 days and enjoy the trip.
My 2 cents. |
| giolic |
Posted - Oct 05 2010 : 13:36:58
Tim
Pascal , George and others are right on about ICW. Take advantage of their knowledge. Cape may and OC are better inlets as George stated. We went in and out of rudee's inlet George is right again. You don't want that feeling of "what did I get myself into " when you can take it easy like
others have suggested. we entered Oregon inlet but you might not have a choice when you arrive there. Pascal's advice is a better way through that area.
As much as you'd like to run the putside i think you'd be better to tAke the suggestions of these experienced capts and only take the outside as an option You really don't have the range and speed to make it worth while to be on the outside the whole way
Limited visibility because of rough seas entering a nasty inlet going into the sun isn't fun
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| giolic |
Posted - Oct 05 2010 : 11:33:50
Make sure you have small lines and string to tight down things that break or won't close anymore when someone forgets to use a latch properly or leaves a door open in rough seas. |
| giolic |
Posted - Oct 05 2010 : 09:41:47
First. Your very optimistic to think you can make it in 4 days running on the outside in a 22 knt boat with your range headed south that time of yr.
I'm almost at Miami ,
we left Saturday mid day from CT
We went inside at Oregon inlet and cut off the outside thru there which is normal in the conditions we had. We where lucky to make it in actually. Some of these inlets are very dangerous so start to learn the do's and don'ts. If your going to run the outside you have to know where and when you can go inside if the weather turns on you you will have many miles of getting beat up from mother nature if you choose to be outside on the wrong day. Current wind and tide are a big factor going thru some of the inlets and you won't have as many choices as you might think the only capt I would hire is someone who runs the outside frequently , many Captians are just going for a pay day. Screw that. You want the best knowledge at the helm of your boat.
Typing on iPhone and bouncing around gives you a headache fast out here
Btw. If you have extra money get a sat phone is a good idea. Why wouldn't you have every tool in the bag?????? Use the guys who run the inside for inside knowledge If you run from cape fear south on the outside you'll be outside cell range. I turn my phone off at the beging of the day in some areas cause ain't no cell towers out here !
Sat weather will be a big help also. We can check real time wave height and direction 24/7 qlong with any other resource weather related. OH, someone said you can use your cell phone My point is it's nice to have all the toys if your going to play out here and cell phone coverage isn't an option often enough
Bring lots of towels.... Your going to get wet. Salt will invade your boat anywhere it can !
Make sure to keep your electronics dry when it gets sloppy.
3 people min would be my advise.
Try to stay at the fuel dock at the end of the day so your not moving around alot Your going to fuel , rinse, eat and crash for the night then be ready to leave at first light. Get the app daylight if you have a smart phone. You can't waste any time in The morning if your tring to break a record getting south
Someone mentioned that your eta will not be accurate because of wave height and wind if you just calculate distance and speed. They're right on. You will burn more fuel also
Make sure you take turns getting some rest during the day , not as important if seas are flat. Good luck on that one however last year it was a pond from cape fear to Miami
If you piss off the cockpit hold onto a rope in bad weather. To many people fall over board with there zipper down according to CC statistics
What manufacture is you boat ?
Keep a good ear to your radio channel.
I'll try to think of some BS tips that might help you
Keep your mind open to being stuck inside more than you would like so you stay safe and don't make a bad call going out when you should be in.
Angles are key on the outside when conditions are less than perfect. That's why you need to know what ports are available to you when you start the day. A few degrees means pounding or better ride for 12 hours. You'll need to weigh those choices and consider the next days weather also or you'll be stuck inside
I can't emphasis how important your choice of the captain ahould be. You don't need a nice guy or a guy who's done the intercoastal year after year. You want OUTSIDE knowledge
Play with you radio alot next year. Us it often and in adverse conditions so you can train your ear to understand what people are saying. It's amaZing how difficult it can be to understand what people are saying. AND you might need it more than you think out there. There's one government agency that talks to fast on the VhF in my opinion
Just passing cape cav. And a welcome turn a few degrees to smooth out the ride. Winds from the north are welcome this time of yr if it's blowing out here
Time to give my eyes a break ! I'm getting to old for a smart phone because the eyes aren't what they used to be. |
| boatbum |
Posted - Sep 29 2010 : 19:51:38
Geo I think next time we meet up I'm not bringing white wine. Probably something stronger if the girls will let us.
Goes good with the outback. |
| caltexfla |
Posted - Sep 29 2010 : 19:17:24
Why Dan? I'd think my redneck anchor polishing technique would be popular there. Or if you want to go deep into the banjo music, there is always Kilkenny Creek. |
| boatbum |
Posted - Sep 29 2010 : 07:01:43
Geo LMAO. I have to admit that in spite of it all, we got a free dinner complete with wine. I'd love to see you bring Incentive to the fuel dock there. Wait, maybe not. Could be quite a bit of carnage. |
| Silver Lining |
Posted - Sep 28 2010 : 22:29:32
Tim, we have made the trip a few times from the Chesapeake to So Fl in a boat with similar speed to yours. If you run on the outside a lot your fuel mileage will likely not be as good as predicted as you will probably hit weather or at least enough swell that may not slow you that much but will affect your mileage. Also, from NC south on the outside my mileage is probably 5 to 10% worse heading south than north due to the gulf stream. Although you wont be directly in the gulf stream for a lot of the trip my experience is that you will be running in a 1 to 1.5 knot head current much of the way.
George makes good recommendations for marinas in So Fl. We have our boat in Ft Lauderdale this winter and have looked around at several marinas. We like Ft Lauderdale and the Hollywood area. For us Ft Lauderdale seems to center around yachting with lots of nice restaurants while Miami is more of a hot spot with lots of night life etc. Fun to visit but a little too fast paced for us.
When we do the trip we usually plan long days and shorter days so we can arrive early some days and enjoy really great cities like Norfolk, Charleston, or St Augustine. Last time we took four days to go from Baltimore to Myrtle Beach and left the boat in Myrtle Beach for three weeks. The kids like Myrtle Beach so we went down a few weekends and then finished the trip south in four days with a short leg the day arriving in St Augustine.
We tend to be in a bit of a rush as we are on our way to or from the Bahamas, so every day spent on the trip is less time in the Bahamas. The thing is that the trip up or down is very enjoyable. Whether you run on the outside a lot and duck into your favorite sea towns or run some of the beautiful sections of the ICW near Jacksonville or in NC and SC, just an extra day or two or breaking the trip in half we have found makes it a very enjoyable journey, something we look forward to and try to balance time spent on the journey versus at the destination.
-Rick
Viking Sport Cruiser 50 FY
"Silver Lining"
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| caltexfla |
Posted - Sep 27 2010 : 21:49:26
It is about an hour to JAX from Brunswick and maybe 90 minutes to SAV. You really have two marina choices: Golden Isles and Brunswick Landing, both very good facilities. Of course you could go a little north and stay at one of Dan's (boatbum) favorite places Two Way Fish Camp. I have heard good things about it but have no direct experience. We anchored out on the South Altahama just down stream from there. Looked pretty good both from the Whaler by water and Highway 17 by land. Probably your cheapest option. BL and GI do a fairly business in the "hurricane" months leading up to the insurance cut off dates, so rates are not discounted,as they are the closest class A marinas north of the state line or as many policies prescribe, north of "the south of Cumberland Island". |
| TimHenn |
Posted - Sep 27 2010 : 20:44:29
Jacksonville is the insurance line but its less about insurance. I don't want to mess with the 180 cumulative day tax law in Florida. We will enter Florida waters in late december and leave around May. I need to keep the boat in Georgia until December....plus Insurance is more, though, I'm going to check into other policy providers cause I understand BoatUS is expensive especially for year round coverage.
I'll have to look up the distance to the Jacksonsville airport from Brunswick -- there is an airport there but I think it's just small, local air. I'll look up marinas in Brunswick and see what there is for inexpensive places to stay. Thanks!
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| boatbum |
Posted - Sep 27 2010 : 06:41:08
I can believe that. I was gambing that Jacksonville might be the insurance company's 'rate line'.
By the way, if you have paid sales tax (oops R.I. does not?) then you don't have to worry. Fl will allow you to stay. |
| caltexfla |
Posted - Sep 26 2010 : 22:27:26
I think he wants to stay out of Florida, Dan. I think Brunswick is ideal, facility wise, and a short drive to Jax or Savannah. The marinas in St. Mary's definitely do not fit the bill. Tim, have a dinner at Cargo Portside Grill in Brunswick sometime and you may revise your valuation of things to do. One year, we skipped Brunswick when bringing the boat north. When we flew back to FL to get the cars, we made sure to stop off there on the way back. |
| boatbum |
Posted - Sep 26 2010 : 17:32:56
St. Mary's isn't all that protected as we recall. If you are going that far why not something in between there and Jacksonville?
Edit:
The Amelia Island Yacht Basin might be what you are looking for. Completely protected, and while you might want tide going in (we did not need it with 3.5 foot draft) it probably has what you are looking for. It's also close to Fernandina Beach which appears to be a neat hang for a while. We've enjoyed a couple of stays there. |
| TimHenn |
Posted - Sep 26 2010 : 17:19:43
SO, it sounds like St Mary's isn't the greatest stop but I'm considering as a place to leave the boat for 2-3 months (Oct-Dec) so I don't care what kind of things there are to do but I DO CARE if it's a safe, responsible place to leave my boat as I won't be able to check up on it until I come back down in late December. I picked it cause it's close to the Jacksonville airport. Savannah works as well but not as far south
George, makes sense on inside/outside. I'll have to look up "Great Brigdge", not sure where that is. Personally, I'd prefer not to deal with bridges, shallow water and other boat traffic if I'm making time. I do think slowing the pace down a little is worthwhile though, you've all talked me into it. That said, I think the trip still needs to be 5-6 days traveling time as this is more a chore than a vacation. Thanks for all the info. I need to get a waterway's guide for the delaware/Jersey area to look closer at those stops.
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| caltexfla |
Posted - Sep 25 2010 : 20:42:43
We anchored off of St. Mary's and had a nice time for a couple of days. Pretty town. But for layover purposes, Brunswick GA is a much better choice. We like Brunswick Landing because it is a nice facility and right in town, which is charming and has some excellent restaurants. Ocean Petroleum right down the creek from there has some of the best fuel prices on the ICW and it is high quality due to being a high turnover commercial dock. Others like Golden Isles, I guess because it is not in town and also a very nice facility and a close car ride to St. Simons.
As for the inside outside issue, it is all about weather. If the seas are bad and the ICW was the right choice I'd turn into Norfolk/Portsmouth, not Rudee Inlet, or even on down to Great Bridge if the timing is right, with some great facilities and some of the very cheapest fuel on the east coast. The ICW is kind of pain from Norfolk through Great Bridge, what with bridge closures and schedules and the locks. From there on to Morehead City it is easy cruising if the Albemarle Sound and the Pamlico River are behaving themselves. A lot of people choose this route because distance wise it is the shortest.
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| boatbum |
Posted - Sep 25 2010 : 13:25:33
St. Mary's? Nope. Keep moving I say. We stopped in to look at the Sub museum when we drove South to check on the boat in Aug.. Not much happening there but it is a pleasant enough place/town. The marinas are quiet enough from what we saw. The up stream most marina had a sign posted regarding live aboards. It's not legal.
There were some derelict boats in the water there as well. Sunk and staying that way.
IMHO, not a worthwhile stop.
There is always a place around Savanna like Isle of Hope. We stopped there and the facilities were pleasant and good staff. We know folks that stayed there quite a while as well. |
| TimHenn |
Posted - Sep 25 2010 : 12:44:35
Hey George,
I'm going to look at stretching out, nice to have options and more fallbacks. How are you suggesting you travel from Rudee Inlet...outside or ICW 0 down through Manteo (versus Hatteras)? Coming in Oregon Inlet and proceeding south Hatteras didn't seem out of the way to me.
Maybe split the first leg into two ending up at Ocean City via long island, NY might be a good option.
I'm also thinking about going down as far south as I can without getting into Florida. If I found a slip in St Mary's, GA for a couple of months I could find a ride to the Jacksonvile, Fl airport without too much trouble. I kinda like the idea of getting as far south as possible. What do you think of St Mary's?
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| caltexfla |
Posted - Sep 21 2010 : 16:16:51
Don't like that first leg myself. I'd look at cutting those first three days up into four or five. say Cape May the first day with AC as a fall back. Then Rudee Inlet with OC as the fall back. Then Morehead City with Manteo, Hatteras, Ocracoke, or Oriental (most direct) as bailouts. And so on.
Definitely try to do Ocean City instead of Indian River given the choice. Fuel stop somewhere in NJ. The facilities for transients are much better in Manteo than Hatteras, which is also more out of the way. Nicer town too. As others have said, it's a shame you don't have time to stop and smell the roses. |
| sabrejocky |
Posted - Sep 21 2010 : 09:43:14
Here is something to consider. The Gulf Stream runs very close to shore down in the Miami area with causes a big difference in winter temperatures. When I was living in Vero Beach winter temps would be as much as 15 degs colder then at my boat in South Beach. I to really like south Miami for its boating and land based destinations.
I have never made the run down from as far north as you are contemplating but I think it makes more sense to take your time, slow down, enjoy the ride, you are paying BIG bucks for it. Also as you slow down you will cut your fuel bill by more than half.
Cor |
| TimHenn |
Posted - Sep 20 2010 : 18:44:20
I have a plan that I like (so far) but still looking at options. The trip is Portsmouth, RI to Savannah, Ga. I chose Hatteras after entering through Oregon Inlet because of the multiple facilities. I know I won't be going 22kts inside the whole way bu
navigation -------------------------------- day --- miles speed - in/out - dep/arrival - total time
Portsmouth => Delaware Indian River Inlet - day 1 - 250nm - 22 - outside - 4:00 to 3:30 - 11.5hrs
Delaware => Hatteras via oregon inlet ----- day 2 - 210nm - 22 - outside/inside - 7:00 to 4:34 - 9.5hrs
Hatteras => Cape Fear ------------------- day 3 - 179nm - 22 - Inside/outside - 7:00 to 3:10 - 8.1hrs
Cape Fear => Savannah -------------------day 4 - 179nm - 22 - outside - 7:00 to 3:10 - 8.1hrs
Look pretty good? I've heard the recommendations to take more time but that will simply have to wait until the return trip or another time. I will wait for ideal conditions to set out on day 1 and do the same for the rest of the trip. I fully expect that I can do this trip in 4-7 days unless I get hammered by weather.
Tim
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| Capt. Bill1 |
Posted - Aug 27 2010 : 13:43:26
A year from now, I might sign on for that if you could use an extra hand.
By then I may be sick of the green jungle and need a change of scenery for a bit. :-)
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| caltexfla |
Posted - Aug 27 2010 : 12:24:33
My motivation would be simple: Fun! I have only made the trip in small pieces on boats that go as fast as yours. On my boat I can take a month or two to do what you are contemplating in a few days. Of course, we will stay a couple of days extra in an anchorage we like, or a week in towns we want to explore, or heck let's make the side trip up the Hudson again, or hang out with new friends we've made, etc.
I have no way of predicting what we'll be doing in October next year. There is a trade show I attend that is usually the first week of October. Our "plan" is to have the boat back up in Westport Mass next summer, so it is possible we will be attending to bringing our own craft south at that time. But who knows for sure? I don't! |
| TimHenn |
Posted - Aug 27 2010 : 08:50:42
No iPhone for me as I'm a loyal Verizon customer waiting for something... I use Active Captain and really love the information but learned it is far from complete when I did a trip to Long Island this year. Since I need all of my options available to me I think the guide will be useful information. Haven't spent much time on Cruisersnet but can check that out, thanks.
George, the trip will be planned for Oct 2011 not this October. I like your truism as I've learned that first hand (put 11 to sleep overnight on a "day trip", great memory! though those who didn't get home that day were not happy at that time.
I think a one week window is enough but mother nature might want to prove me wrong as you know. Even though the boat is new and under full warranty through this trip I know things go wrong. I already had a minor issue a couple weeks ago traveling from Block Island to West Hampton Beach. Let's see how a virtual trip goes this October. I'm going to gather the right buoy data for the mid-atlantic and south and pretend to move the boat. I'm mostly interested in knowing where I will get weather info and what "normal" conditions are in the various places. This does nothing to simulate dinging a prop or finding a fuel dock closed when it should have been open, etc.
Given your recommendations to take in the sites (which I understand) and knowing that I'm still going to make this more of chore (not entirely) to get the boat from point A to B, what is your motivation to potentially join me on this trip? I know I would be interested in doing the same for someone else but that's because I don't have the experience and would enjoy learning while I help.
Anyway, plenty of time to plan even if it will be all for nothing, it's in my nature to be ready and have several plans...then roll with the punches.
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| caltexfla |
Posted - Aug 26 2010 : 16:37:40
Are you talking about this October or next October? I am going to be in Calif. first week of October this year, but would love to block out some time for you.
You have to give yourself at least a one week to two week window to do this, even if everything lines up perfectly, things happen. One of the great boating truisms is : "The most dangerous thing you can have on a boat is a schedule". |
| Capt. Bill1 |
Posted - Aug 25 2010 : 13:15:53
I don't know what kind of phone you have but the Waterway Guides are available as an app for the iPhone. There are also some nice charting, tide and weather apps for the iPhone that make a good back up plotter out of it.
Don't forget Active Captain and Cruisersnet (dot) net. |
| TimHenn |
Posted - Aug 25 2010 : 13:02:08
I've got to get back to planning my trip but right now in Baltimore dropping off my youngest for the first year of college. I'm going to build a list of places to check out this winter, should be fun (and warm!) to do. I like the Hollywood area, will definately check out Loggerhead.
As an aside, I was looking at the passage through NY city via long island sound and its much shorter and simpler to pass through than I was thinking. This might be a good alternate route to going outside and then direct to Delaware. I figured out a 3 day trip from Newport to Savannah but all the legs are pushing the 250 NM limit and would require a near perfect weather pattern and fuel pumps that are open late in the day to early evening. I'm going to lock that trip in as one aggressive option and go back and build a plan that is a 4 day trip instead. The stops and site seeing will have to wait till my return trip or another time altogether. I don't ming doing the 3-4 travel day trip because the payoff is I'm in the warm florida sun in January!
Palm Harbor transient rates (when I checked) was 2.25/ft which coming from the North East is a huge bargain for a premium facility. THe monthly rate is 1.25/ft which I think is very reasonable if the facility is as nice as it looks online. Course they have a 50' minimum so this might be expensive for smaller boats.
I need to take all this information and get my hands on a Waterways Guide for the mid atlantic. Then I can make some additional plans and run them by all of you to see what you think.
George, I need someone onboard with experience making this run. My wife will not be with me nor my seasonal cruising crew. So, if this is interesting to you I would love to have someone like yourself join me (us) for the trip.
Gotta go out and find that waterways guide, should be one in downtown Baltimore somewhere....more later,
Tim |
| PascalG |
Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 08:37:56
Palm Harbor is in a great location and has been completly rebuilt last year, it needed it! the old dock where falling apart... I like the location, you're right behind Clematis with many shops, restaurants, etc... not sure what their new rates are, they were cheap before the renovation.
in No Miami, there is also a Loggerhead marina at the waterways, in Aventura, next to Turnberry isle. pretty nice although traffic around Aventura is among the worst in dade Co. near rush hour.
I also like the low country of SC and GA... one nice stretch you shuodl do at least once, it the Waccamaw river, a 25NM stretch between Myrtle beach Georgetown. Osprey Marina, jsut south of MB often has the best fuel prices south of norfolk and very feindly folks. and since you're into golfing, MB should be your kind of place... :)
Casey's fuel barge in Newport does have cheap fuel (prices at marinas are ridiculously high), but they are hard to deal with. hard to get on the phone, hard to set up an appointment... plus they use a diesel powered pump which is extremely loud and you can't hear your vent gurgling. then if you spill a drop they act like you're the Exon Valdez Captain...
a good alternative is Pt Judith Marina. it's close to Newport and prices are usually pretty good. 0.10 higher than Caseys' but a lot easier to deal with.
on the way south, good fuel prices are usually found Norfolk/Portsmouth (tidewater or P. boating center),Jarrett bay (not always though... check first), Osprey as mentioned, and sometimes McClelanville.
from Miami, i usually get to Osprey in Myrtle Beach without refueling. I usually top off at Norfolk since it's cheap, and again in Cape May and/or pt Judith.
Indeed, it's a shame to bypass the Cheasapekae plus there is really not much along the Md coastline if weather picks up or you have a mechanical issue. it's only about 60NM extra to go up the Del. and into the Ches. |
| buzzk |
Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 06:46:33
Palm Harbor does look nice. What do they charge? |
| Capt. Bill1 |
Posted - Aug 20 2010 : 00:32:15
If you want to make some time stay outside and skip Georgia.
I too think you daily mileage figures are optimistic.
Palm Harbor is nice. Stayed there a couple of times.
"Let us know when you get ready to do it. heck, I may crew for free."
I'd take George up on that if I were you. :-)
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| caltexfla |
Posted - Aug 19 2010 : 20:12:25
Oh, I didn't reply to the trip planning part. I'd go down Long island Sound. Many more bail out points and just as fast. Plus you don't want to miss the experience of going through New York City and New York Harbor, there is nothing else like it in the world. Hatteras is a must if for no other reason it is shorter. Getting a transient in Hatteras proper is sometimes difficult. Just inside Oregon Inlet and a bit north is Manteo, a nice place with many options. Or you can go a short ways down to Ocracoke, a lovely harbor to anchor out in or use the National seashore dock or the Anchorage marina.. fun little town too. Just put a little fuel on at these places if you have to because it is much cheaper Jarrett Bay or Morehead City (where I am now).
I think the North Carolina ICW is the most "skippable" section from a sight seeing standpoint. We happen to love the low country of South Carolina and Georgia, and usually aren't in any hurry, so typically stay inside from Little River to Savannah. Just keep in mind, Mother Nature will force the mightiest craft inside at a moment's notice. We like to go outside from Savannah by going through Thunderbolt and out through Wassaw Sound, then back in at St. Catherine's or Brunswick. But we really love the stretch inside from St. Catherines to Jacksonville and pause to dawdle at many places in between. Below Jacksonville, arguably Fernandina Beach, the ICW has attained "been there, done that" status with us. Services are available fairly close inside at St Augustine, Ponce Inlet, Canaveral (a little bit of a stretch to recreational marinas), and Fort Pierce, then Lake Worth. You can go in St.Lucie but it is a little tricky and a ways to services. In short, even though we are dawdlers and sight seers, we go outside as much as possible in NC and FL.
I'd suggest you get some local knowledge on Indian River, De. That's tricky, and much better facilities are present at Cape May and Ocean City. Seems like a shame to miss the pleasures of the Chesapeake for the sake of picking up one or two days. There is nothing you can rely on as a bail out point between OC and Rudee Inlet, and Rudee inlet can be a white knuckler. I went in there with a charter captain once and it was all that and more.
Once again, I will caution you to take a close look at what your real savings, mileage wise, are inside vs outside for various parts of the trip. Unless it is dead calm outside, there are few segments that don't make much sense if you have to go all the way inside to get fuel. Others, if you have enough crew, can be longer when done overnight outside at slower speed with no loss in days as a result.
Also, take my comments with some grains of salt because I am a 10 knot cruiser, not 22.
Let us know when you get ready to do it. heck, I may crew for free. |
| caltexfla |
Posted - Aug 19 2010 : 19:36:01
Check out the Loggerhead in Hollywood. Ultra secure deep inside a very upscale gated community. Beautiful pool, clubhouse and work out room a short walk away. Plenty of shopping of all sorts within blocks, including the new upscale Shops at Gulfstream. Of course for me, the convenient presence of Gulfstream Park Race course is a major plus. If you have bucks to burn, Turnberry Isle in Aventura is also great: fantastic docks and staff, very secure, pool etc. You can walk to Aventura Mall, the best in South Florida with a great movie theater, if you want a little exercise.
For the money, we prefer Loggerhead. The docks and staff aren't as good, but you get pump out in the slip and it is quieter. You are convenient to both airports too. We find it fun to take the Whaler up to Fort lauderdale and poke around or go to the beach at John Lloyd. The Hollywood Beach is a lot of fun with the Broadwalk of restaurants and shops, free concerts and nice beach. Or go to the more park like setting further north towards Dania.
Man, life is good down there!
George
Hatteras 56MY
Boston Whaler 130 Sport |
| TimHenn |
Posted - Aug 19 2010 : 17:59:21
Ammenities look good, but that "don't walk at night part" will kill an otherwise great marina every time. Since I'm going to be away the wife has too feel comfortable.
Take a look at this marina, this is already on our visit list and frankly at the top of the list short of the boating info I'm getting from you. http://www.palmharbor-marina.com/
I'd like to find a couple of locations and see if she's up for moving once in four months. Like I said we like the Miami Beach Bal Harbor area around SunnyIsles.
After digging around the Rhode Island marinas serving up Diesel I discovered the fuel barge in Newport Harbor. I saved .50 a gallon from my home fuel dock and it's only a 15 minute boat ride to Newport. Had to spend the night on a mooring ball at the very southern tip of Goat island -- don't let them put you on that ball on a summer weekend!!! It's like getting a parking space in the middle of a busy intersection...pilot boats zipping by, just all the traffic coming in and out of the harbor goes by that ball, oh well...I filled up and the diesel was cheap.
I will definately be in touch with all of my stops to make sure they know I'm counting on them for dockage, fuel and potentially a lay over. Shopping for fuel just ahead of traveling is a good idea that definately could save some money. Thanks.
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| PascalG |
Posted - Aug 19 2010 : 17:40:38
Bal Harbor marina is pretty basic but good location. Not too many marinas with pools down here.
one of them is http://www.palmbaymiami.com/miami/marina.html which is pretty nice with pool, tennis, etc.. part of a condo. i dont' know their current rates but they were pretty reasonable. good security being in a gated commuunity. on the down side, once outside the gate, you probably dont' want to go for a walk at night...
Active Captain is pretty reliable but fuel prices maybe outdated. I always call a day or two before to double check. for instance, if prices are on the rise, you need to find a fuel dock which hasn't received a new load... if they're on the way down, you need to find whoever has jsut received a delivery. play the game right and savings can be substantial. Even places that are normally competitive can be 0.30 more than others.
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| TimHenn |
Posted - Aug 19 2010 : 16:43:27
First, I should answer Glenn's suggestion. Hiring a captain. I've considered everything but the bottom line is I want to do this trip and have always wanted to. That said, I am thinking about hiring an experienced crew hand as the wife will *not* be onboard for this trip which is part of the reason I'm not going to be taking my time. I might take my time on the way back.
Pascal, you have the fuel burn dead on -- just under 40GPH at 22kts in decent conditions. I'm still working all of this out which is why its so cool to get input from all of you that have done this before. I could talk about this all day! I figured I'd plan a 10 hour day at cruise which would burn roughly 400 gallons leaving 1/3 of the tank to put in and out of wherever I needed to go. This would move me approximately ~250 SM a day. daylight is something I will watch carefully this October. Fuel station operating hours is another variable to be concerned with but I will know that ahead of leaving on the first leg. Prices, if they can be trusted on ActiveCaptain, will be used to determine where I would pull in.
For example, a tentative day 1 is leaving Portsmouth, RI (home dock), rounding Montauk pt and then pushing through a 209NM run to Indian River Inlet just south of delaware bay. The Indian River Marina offers fuel (don't know the hours yet) at a reasonable price. I have multiple bail out points from the west end of Long Island and several places on the Jersey shore. This is pushing the range to about 250 NM but on day one I'd probably leave before light through the waters I know very well. This would likely be the longest run of the whole trip. Still too aggressive? My next leg is 200 NM and puts me pretty much dead center in Pamlico Sound at Cape Hatteras. That's as far as I've planned as I needed some passage information (which I now have, thanks George!). I definately have to pick up some guides to get additional information but I'd like to think I could travel 200-250NM a day (weather permitting), 250 being on the extreme end of the range (in my original post I should have stated 250-300 SM a day).
I'm going to use the boat but will be limited to weekends mostly. I would definately want to do some day trips, overnights via anchorage or marina stays. I don't think I'll be able to use the boat every weekend but my wife knows I will try, you can be sure of that! I need to line up visits to places for this winter so I can see what is available. As I said, I'm open to any area that I can easily get into and out-of the airport to support work. We will likely have a car available but "local, clean, comfortable and safe" ammenities are required by the real boss (those are her words :)). West Palm seems to have it all (accept for the boating, apparently) as there is shopping, beaches, golf, restaurants. On premise ammenities like a restaurant, pool and things like wifi, floating docks, etc. are worthwhile. I'm sure all of this is available in the Miami/FL area. We stay in SunnyIsles for the boat show and love it there. There's a marina, Ball Harbor Marina I think ??, that's very nice, probably too nice but I'll inquire about monthly rates.
I really appreciate all the information on this! This is something I've always wanted to do so I can go back and forth about the best plan all day... So, if your so inclined to do so and you have been this far....What do you think of leg #1 outlined above? Basic piece of information is the average/maximum travel time and distance for this trip; I'm not claiming to know which is why I'm enjoying hearing from you (all). Is 200NM average with the opening leg of 250NM being the longest reasonable enough? I know the seas can knock you back so I'll have to make the call every step of the trip. I plan to have several locations identified should I need to get out of open water for repairs or unexpected weather. I think as a general rule I would start the day early (even pre dawn) and be tied up, fueled up by dark as an ideal scenario but I'll have to look at operating times at the fuel dock.
Is Cape Hatteras the only "must go inside" location down to say Savannah or Jacksonville? I haven't studied any charts south of NC yet.
Thanks again for the dialog, I love it.
Tim
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| Chesagansett |
Posted - Aug 19 2010 : 15:19:09
TimmHenn -
If you just don't have the time, why not hire a delivery Captain, such as Pascal? Sure, you'll pay a delivery fee, but if it is run inside and slower, you'll save on fuel and wear and tear on the boat that would occur in open water at higher speeds.
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| PascalG |
Posted - Aug 19 2010 : 14:27:44
wasnt' in Sag but we started a charter in Newport on july 25... arrived in newport aroudn 1am and picked a mooring, then moved to Banisters late morning and spent the night there
Cape Hatteras is just pretty nasty with shoals extending far offshore, there is no point in going outside there... most folks stay inside from Norfolk to Beaufort/Moorehead city NC. You can run on plane thru most of that section so you dont' have much to gain trying to run outside.
i think it's a shame not to make the trip a pleasure trip... it's not a run that you may get to do very often so why not enjoy at least some of it. there are some pretty nice stops along the way and some unique places.
I agree with George, you are very optimistic in your estimate... what do you burn, about 40GPH at 22kts? so out of 600USG you really have a range of what? 300NM at the most... means you will probably need to refuel every day and here goes at least an hour each day. taking into account the time fuel docks open or close, you will have a hard time sustaining 250 to 300NM a day unless you stretch your days with 2 or 3 hours of night time running. And keep in mind that after late october, days are much shorter. oh, and a tight schedule means you have less option to shop for fuel, which will increase your costs. Often, you can save up to 40 or 50c a gallon by picking the right fuel stops... that's $200 to $300 per fill up in your case... adds up and pays for dockage!
it all comes down to your schedule and whether you can find the time to run at a more relaxed pace. maybe you can split the trip in 2 or 3 sections and fly home/work in between.
West Palm is nice... not sure what kind of prices and amenities you are looking for. the Clematis area is nice in the evening, restaurants, etc... but you can find as good or better in miami. again, if you're not going to take the boat out much then it doens't matter but if you want to go out for a few hours or a day or two, it is really limited up there.
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