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 Was I reckless in running an inlet with a bowrider
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blouderback

RO# 24057

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  14:35:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Poll Question:
OK, in all seriousness, I would like to have your opinions on this subject. I am in no way trying to stir the pot. I really want to know your opinions, and since your answers will be annonymous, I hope you will all be honest.

Here's the background:


  • 20' bowrider, 5.0L Mercruiser w/Bravo III.

  • The boat recently passed CG Aux Safety inspection.

  • I have taken the PA State Fish and Game Commision safety boater class and passed the test.

  • I have obtained and studied nav charts and tide charts of the area, and chose 3 hours before high tide to navigate the inlet, pannin g to re-enter after 30 minutes.

  • I waited for a day where the weather and seas were predicted to be calm

  • I performed 2 recon missions to view the conditions and the activity of other boats and how they did it.

  • I had on board 1 GPS, 1 VHF, 2 cell phones, all other required CG equipment, and one 45 year old friend.

  • I had the engine cutoff lanyard attached to my person

  • We were NOT wearing life vests, although they were stowed in a handy area.

  • Our wives were both aware of our plans, and knew we were planing to return at a specified time (approximately 2 hours after we left)


The poll question is: Was I reckless in trying to negotiate this inlet given the above information?

Choices:

Yes
No

(Anonymous Vote)
-Bob-
.................................................................
"Annabo": 2005 Larson Senza 206 w/5.0L Bravo III

Homeport: Chalfont, Pennsylvania

PascalG

RO# 12212



Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  14:41:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i dont think so based on the above conditions although i think waiting for slack tide, or within 30-60 minutes of slack would have been better. 3 hours before is when you have the maximum current.

Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper

Homeport: Miami, FL Go to Top of Page

SteveG

RO# 2657



Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  14:50:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't think so Bob. I've seen many people run an inlet, safely, in boats much smaller and less sea worthy. As the captain, you need to weigh the conditions, your ability, the safety of your passengers, and the capability of your vessel to make the right call. It's very hard to armchair quarterback after the situation.

Of course, you have to be sure you're well trained enough to make the right call in the first place.


Steve - Boatless - for now

Homeport: NH Coast Go to Top of Page

dwarren

RO# 14233

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  15:01:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob I'm with Steve and Pascal. I think you did it all "correct". Fact is, anytime you venture into the inlet (especially here on the Island), there could be something that's going to happen. In any case, I think you were more than cautious.

Douglas Warren
"You never get sumthin' for nuthin'"

Homeport: ny Go to Top of Page

eclips

RO# 22673

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  15:04:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hummmm....you sure need a lot of attention....but anyway I voted.

1995 Sea Ray 370 DA

Homeport: Quebec Go to Top of Page

AbsoLoot

RO# 3617

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  15:12:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob,

I don't think it was reckless, but I think that there are things that you could have done to make it safer. I would prefer a backup VHF instead of a back up cell phone. Another thing that might not make a huge difference, but would help some is to have a snap on cover to go over the open bow. It won't prevent a huge wave from swamping the boat, but might aid in getting some of the water to run off the sides.

I think one of the best things you could do is join a fishing club and try to ride with some experienced fishermen as a hitch hiker on a fishing trips. They routinely run the inlets and their boats are better designed for it by being self bailing. If you pay attention and ask questions, you could learn a lot in a relatively safe manner. Out here, we have the Coastside Fishing Club where it is common for members to hitchhike on others boats even if they have their own.


Blue Skies,
Dave

As light fades, vision increases
Blind people have vision!

Homeport: California Delta & SF Bay Go to Top of Page

pdecat

RO# 842



Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  15:14:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
you you sure do need a lot of attention. There is no certainty of unchanging conditions but you made it so it was not your day to meet a sneaker wave on the tide change. Few folks run the QE2 so enjoy but be alert.

Bruce



Homeport: Gulf Coast FL Go to Top of Page

jtybt15

RO# 3300



Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  15:14:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
First of all, check with seasoned boaters with condition for best passage.

We run out of the Golden Gate Bridge which can get pretty bad. The best days are little/no wind and small swells but always OUTGOING tide, even when the wind and swells don't cooperate(but use common sense). Your area /inlet may be different so that's why you check with other boaters. Actually, fishermen are usually going in and out in many different conditions so are aware of the differences.





Charlie

There is much to be said, in a world like ours, for taking the world as you find it and fishing with a worm.-Bliss Perry, 1904



Homeport: Ca Go to Top of Page

Hyperfishing

RO# 3223

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  15:16:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I do not recall seeing a bowrider, ever, outside the Fire Island Inlet.

Some NYorkers are quite sane.

I recall a lot of advice not to use that boat in the ocean, last year.

When running dangerous rapids in a canoe, standard practice is to place air bags in the bow to keep from submarining. What is right for canoes is right for bowriders. Bowriders sans air bags and a sturdy hard cover over the bow space, should not go outside inlets that act like rapids IMO.


Chris

Edited by - Hyperfishing on Aug 02 2007 17:10:32

Homeport: Sand Bar, Great South Bay Go to Top of Page

giolic

RO# 23638

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  15:23:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
um,

I must be stupid... Please tell me why this is such a big deal in a 20' bowrider. What am I missing ??

Mark



Homeport: Go to Top of Page

giolic

RO# 23638

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  15:24:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
BTW,

welcome back Chris.. I thought you left.

Mark



Homeport: Go to Top of Page

Riverratt

RO# 12842

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  15:25:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am not at all familiar with inlets so I did not vote. If you were at all concerned about your safety you should have had your PFD on (with your captains hat of course).


Homeport: St Charles, Missouri Go to Top of Page

lanbuilder

RO# 14645

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  15:29:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Going through that inlet in a bowrider you should have been wearing lifejackets. The boat could swamp and sink in a very short time and you would have no chance to get the stowed jackets. I would not like your chances in the water in that inlet without a PFD.
At high tide when you might think it would be slack water the tide tables for Ocean City show a diffence in tide height of one foot between the inside and outside. That means that when you might have thought there would be slack water there is still a considerable current. With inlets you need a current predictor not just tide tables. Without the current tables you need the tide tables for stations inside and outside to assess what the conditions might be.
Here are the tide graphs for the stations outside and inside the OC inlet. You can see that at some tide states there is nearly 1.5 feet difference between the 2 sides at high tide when you might expect slack water. The only time there is no major diffenece is at low tide. That is the best time to passage that inlet.



Mike
1968 Chris Craft Commander 47'

Management is doing things right. Leadership is doing the right things.

Edited by - lanbuilder on Aug 02 2007 16:40:15

Homeport: Lancaster, VA Go to Top of Page

Riverratt

RO# 12842

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  15:31:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You're taking on water Bob.


Homeport: St Charles, Missouri Go to Top of Page

Hyperfishing

RO# 3223

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  15:32:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Mark. Merely had to point out trimming out the drive in an inlet to hold the bow up is the wrong thing to do. Also, taking a bowrider out an inlet or using one in the NE ocean at all, is the wrong thing to do IMO. Going back to my batcave.

Chris

Edited by - Hyperfishing on Aug 02 2007 15:33:01

Homeport: Sand Bar, Great South Bay Go to Top of Page

Tim R

RO# 2009

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  15:33:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've run a 12 ft Whaler through the Fire Island Inlet.

There are too many factors to this question to give a definitive 'yes' or 'no' answer.



Homeport: Northwest, NJ Go to Top of Page

bayracerL.I.

RO# 16885

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  15:45:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Had an old 18 ft 76 bayliner bowrider w 65 evinrude and a 17 foot lazer w 150 merc and used to run through jones inlet (to the JI bouy) and the fire island inlet


Homeport: SEAFORD Go to Top of Page

JoeBTB

RO# 517

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  15:45:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Agree w/ Pascal, probably best to time the current better. Consult a current table instead of tide table, and do it at slack rather than max flood.


Homeport: Go to Top of Page

blouderback

RO# 24057

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  15:50:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Joe, I never heard of a "current table". Anyone have a link to one?

-Bob-
.................................................................
"Annabo": 2005 Larson Senza 206 w/5.0L Bravo III

Homeport: Chalfont, Pennsylvania Go to Top of Page

pdecat

RO# 842



Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  15:51:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Charlie: ebb tide is OK except at the end when the flood starts at the bar and suddenly you find sneaker waves rising up from what was flat water seconds ago.

Mark; bowriders can take on a lot of water suddenly when the bow is stuffed into a wave. It can be like a big scoop.


Bruce



Homeport: Gulf Coast FL Go to Top of Page

AF

RO# 7267

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  16:24:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No bob,

Sounds like you took all precautions and studied the weather conditions. The only think I would have done differently was to have everyone wear life vests, But that's just me.

Adam


Adam

"If you're going through hell...keep going"

Homeport: Point Lookout, NY Go to Top of Page

SCORPIO

RO# 4810



Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  16:25:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well that all depends on the inlet in question. BTW, what inlet did you run thru?


Chris USPS AP

Homeport: Lewes, Delaware Go to Top of Page

PascalG

RO# 12212



Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  16:27:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
mark the problem with a bow rider in open water, and in an inlet, is that if it hits a larger wave/wake the wrong way and water comes over the bow, the water is going to get in. Suddenly the boat will be very bow heavy and even more likely to take on more water when the next wave comes.

then water has nowhere to go... CC are usually self draining with scuppers and the water will flow out. not so an "inland" bow rider. the typical 1000gph bilge pump will not be able to evacuate the water fast enough.

a small cuddy doesn't face the same risks since water will flow off the bow/foredeck.


Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper

Homeport: Miami, FL Go to Top of Page

Robyns Nest

RO# 4846

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  16:34:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by giolic

um,

I must be stupid... Please tell me why this is such a big deal in a 20' bowrider. What am I missing ??

Mark



That inlet can be downright evil!!!

I ran up from Norfolk to Ocean City, the ocean was great, some wind. Came up to Ocean City inlet just before dusk. Tide was running out, wind coming in from the ocean.

I've got to tell you that it was a white knuckle ride in. Basically pinned it and ran it hard in, if I didn't run it hard and fast it might have been trouble, this in a 50,000 lb 48 foot convertible. Lake Worth inlet in Florida was easy compared to this one IMHO.

That inlet can turn nasty at the turn of the wind.

Jonathan



__________________________________________________
2003 56 Post Convertible 2x1300HP V12 MAN
2018 30' Sea Hunt Gamefish 2x300HP Yamahas
--------------------------------------------------------
"The future ain't what is used to be."
- Yogi Berra

Homeport: Monmouth Beach NJ Go to Top of Page

Charlie

RO# 6922

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  16:37:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My hat's off to you Bob. You have free rent in an aweful lot of heads. Loved the picture of you in the hat.


Homeport: Go to Top of Page

L Hall

RO# 1



Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  16:49:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The question, as written, is ridiculous. There are days when the inlet will be flat calm and days when, as noted, a 48 footer will have a problem. The key is knowing the boat and being able to ascertain appropriate conditions and, even more important, changing conditions. As a general rule, a bowrider is a lake boat and not suitable for "big water." However, with the appropriate skill set and knowledge, they can be taken offshore safely - ie, when the water is like lake water. But the minute the discussion starts involving riding the back of a wave to get in safely or keeping the bow up to avoid stuffing it, you are in trouble. The boat doesn't belong there in those conditions.



Les Hall, ATC Forum Host

Homeport: Concord, NH Go to Top of Page

bob erdman

RO# 1182

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  16:51:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The boat has full floatation, and it sounds like he did everything right. I've seen alot smaller boats go in/out of that inlet in all wx conditions. I've personally done it in a 17' boat and a 70 hp outboard. Heck, I've seen jet skis go thru that inlet. I'm trying to figure out what the big deal is. What's next, a warning label on all bow riders, "Do not attempt to navigate ocean inlets with this vessel".


Homeport: Fl. Go to Top of Page

SilverBullet

RO# 20331

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  17:01:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's only an inlet. Drive to the parking lot at the inlet and watch the size of the boats that go in and out of OC Inlet all the time. Covering the bow area is a great idea, just in case. Follow a few smaller boats in and out, at slack tide 'till you feel comfortable, not too close! Yeah, I know it is Ocean City, MD inlet and can be real rough for a short time. Real close waves, almost square ones, depending on tide. After a couple of times, in and out, you'll get the hang of it. Pay attention and watch your speed. One hand on the helm and the other on the throttle with no sudden changes. Next week you'll be here asking about Indian River to the north or Chincoteague to the south. Actually, I think they're not as rough as OC. Enjoy your summer!


Homeport: Atlantic City, NJ Go to Top of Page

JoeBTB

RO# 517

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  17:02:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here you go, Bob: http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/currents07/cpred2.html

Click the location, then click "Predictions" and find your month/day.



Homeport: Go to Top of Page

giolic

RO# 23638

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  17:10:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the info guys.. I just wanted to understand the issue here. I'll keep my fingures off the kybd on this one and see how it unfolds


Homeport: Go to Top of Page

Perry

RO# 3836



Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  17:17:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob,
My only issue is that your experience running an inlet is limited and you took your family with you. Inlets can turn ugly quickly with the turn of the tide and a change in the winds. You're boat is not really the issue, its the experience of knowing conditions and how to deal with them quickly and effectively. SilverBullet's idea of practicing prior to bringing the family...
Best,
Perry



Homeport: Shinnecock Go to Top of Page

walterv

RO# 12640



Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  17:18:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob,

With all due respect, where you droped on your head when you were a kid? :)

Walter


And always remember, life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by those moments that take our breath away.

George Carlin

Edited by - walterv on Aug 02 2007 17:19:59

Homeport: Go to Top of Page

Estimator

RO# 23140

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  17:33:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just called the Coast Guard in Ocean City (410) 289-7457, asked the question as to a 20 foot bow rider being reckless in this inlet. His answer was that with accurate knowledge of the tides, currents, weather forecast, ocean experience, and paying attention to the markers, he would not consider it reckless”

As the question was posted, and as Bob has stated, there was no knowledge of the tides and currents and no ocean experience….reckless, if you believe the Coast Guards statement to be accurate.

oops, noted where Bob said he checked the tide..


"In Heat"
1997 Bayliner Capri 2350 LS SE, 454, Bravo III
"Everything is changing. People are taking their comedians seriously and the politicians as a joke."
-Will Rogers-

Edited by - Estimator on Aug 02 2007 17:39:30

Homeport: Lake Eufaula, Oklahoma Go to Top of Page

SilverBullet

RO# 20331

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  17:56:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Estimator, I don't think you'll find the Coast Guard is going to answer a question like that in any other manner. Reckless is a more serious thing than careless, either way, no one on duty is going answer any other way than the reply you got.


Homeport: Atlantic City, NJ Go to Top of Page

Estimator

RO# 23140

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  18:29:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
SilverBullet

That makes sense. Needless to say, I am not one afraid to seek out answers. I'm about to have an "empty nest" and after years of boating inland...I am really thinking of the ocean.

My wife and mines professional skills will transfer. I am learning from all of this, and have been learning here for over a year....most knowledge gained has not come from the results of confrontations such as this one with Bob and his love of attention and acceptance, I learned along time ago about people like him, their always marching to the tune of their own drummer, and their tune it always right, much like my 17 year old son whom I hope will grow out of it.

A simple question or not so simple, filling in the gap when requested, not getting mad when someone with experience points me in a direction that I would have swore was incorrect, and a study of the answers and the responses to the answers from fair minded, experienced individuals (which there are plenty here) has been a pleasant, mature learning experience for the most part at BE…..when that changes….I’ll move on.


"In Heat"
1997 Bayliner Capri 2350 LS SE, 454, Bravo III
"Everything is changing. People are taking their comedians seriously and the politicians as a joke."
-Will Rogers-

Homeport: Lake Eufaula, Oklahoma Go to Top of Page

Tim R

RO# 2009

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  18:53:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Les Hall

As a general rule, a bowrider is a lake boat and not suitable for "big water."



I'd say that's a VERY general rule. Not all bowriders are created equal. Take this Starcraft for example...

http://www.starcraftmarine.com/?page=seriesdetails&hullid=1&serid=2




Homeport: Northwest, NJ Go to Top of Page

Billylll

RO# 24494

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  18:56:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm not a Bob fan but I don't think you were reckless. You took the precautions needed and the weather was with you. My problem is that the weather can really change in a heartbeat and a bowrider in that inlet under bad weather is a recipe for disaster. I'm glad you have given up on Block Island.
Regards Bill


Bill Lentz
Little Egg, N.J.

Homeport: Tuckerton, N.J. Go to Top of Page

psalzer

RO# 4570



Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  19:02:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob, any trip that you return from is a good one, if you can use the boat again it is a GREAT one!!! Remember, no matter what is said on this or any forum, you are the captain and are ultimately responsible. It looks like you did some research before going, but as others have said, conditions can change in a few minutes. Can a bowrider navigate an inlet?? Sure, under the right conditions, however you are doing something it was not designed to do, and need to be prepared for any changes in conditions. Take a look the link of the 61' boat in Perdido Pass, not related to sea conditions but not pretty.

Pete

Edited by - psalzer on Aug 02 2007 19:04:26

Homeport: Fayetteville, Ga Go to Top of Page

boatbum

RO# 36

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  19:16:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob after reading the opener, I was convinced you did alot more homework than many of the bozo's out there.
However, I don't believe a bow rider is the appropriate boat to go outside with. With low free-board they don't compare to an open center console boat of the same size. It's not just the inlet. It's the movement of other boats in it, which are much larger and pitch wakes without concern. And that can happen outside also.
There's a saying about airline pilots. It applies here. There are old pilots and bold pilots. But there are no old and bold pilots. Keep taking chances, and you will regret it.



Homeport: Go to Top of Page

SilverBullet

RO# 20331

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  19:25:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As I read some of the posts on here I have to smile. I guess it all depends on where you do your boating. Perry has one fun inlet to deal with, Shinnecock and there's no comparison between Lake Worth(Palm Beach) even on a calm day and Ocean City, MD. There all inlets and they all deserve respect, they can be different one day to the next. Experience as usual is the best way. Pick your days and be safe. While I say be safe, I see a post on here about a 61' Weaver. What was he trying to do????? Inlets or passes, they all deserve respect, not to mention local knowledge.


Homeport: Atlantic City, NJ Go to Top of Page

abalmuth

RO# 13885



Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  19:27:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by boatbum

,,,,,,,, Keep taking chances, and you will regret it.

notice Dan doesn't say you will "live to regret it"


Carver Voyager 530 with Volvo 122's/610HP
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright
until you hear them speak.........

Homeport: Huntington/Greenport, NY Go to Top of Page

divedaddy

RO# 24262

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  19:41:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob,

Your question made me think a good bit. I don't believe you were reckless. You had a well thought out plan and made a number of careful preparations. From what you describe there was nothing "reckless" about what you did. I would say that it was ill-advised. Some might argue that it was foolish or that you were careless after the counsel you received last year. But, it is hard to dispute that you made your trip without incident and I have seen far more foolish things done without the care you gave.

From your original post on your "Ventured .. " thread, it is clear you learned a few things, some of which were surprising to you. I suspect some of what you learned was that you validated the concerns and objections expressed by others here when you asked about the feasibility of travelling to Block Island via your boat. I further suspect that on reflection you have learned from that as well.

For me learning is is more than half the key to continued success. The goal is to do it without getting hurt or breaking anything. If that was your goal it looks like you succeeded. I will only suggest that there are safer, less risky ways to learn.

Enjoy your boat and keep learing !


Eric

Homeport: Clear Lake, TX Go to Top of Page

L Hall

RO# 1



Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  19:53:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tim, that's not a bowrider. There's no place to sit forward. It's got seating aft like a bowrider but a bow like a CC.

Question: How many people here think that low tide means no current?



Les Hall, ATC Forum Host

Homeport: Concord, NH Go to Top of Page

Estimator

RO# 23140

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  19:55:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by blouderback

Joe, I never heard of a "current table". Anyone have a link to one?



One might not call this reckless, but I call it ill prepared at best, and according to the Coast Guard, one of the essential pieces of information to know, as replies here have also stated. I had no problem playing dumb with him, as that is the truth regarding my ocean experience.

This thread implies by the standards posted on this poll, a gps, vhf, pfd’s on board, a cell phone (with 5 bars), reading a tide chart, looking at the sky, a fiberglass boat that can’t sink and following what I see others doing are all that is required to head off into the great depths safely, at least that is the impression that this thread and a number of responses has given me. I have all these items, so I guess this thread has been productive to novice ocean boaters like me, and I'm ready to head out…and mine being a bigger bow rider makes no difference, size doesn’t matter. This thread implies, with the above items, a kayak is acceptable, as one could argue, and Bob would if it suited his whim of the day like the resurrected smart tabs thread. I come to this site for 80 percent knowledge and 20 percent entertainment……when it’s all entertainment, which is the way Bob would have it, I’m gone. I don’t clown around about running my boat.

Actually the Coast Guard was a bit guarded in his answer when I said I had no ocean experience...reckless or careless....both can and do result in the same dead condition. I've seen just as many bad things resulting from carelessness as recklessness, so I guess that is a play on words.

As Bob says "whatever"


"In Heat"
1997 Bayliner Capri 2350 LS SE, 454, Bravo III
"Everything is changing. People are taking their comedians seriously and the politicians as a joke."
-Will Rogers-

Homeport: Lake Eufaula, Oklahoma Go to Top of Page

Ghost

RO# 689



Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  20:11:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob, is your survey complete?

*Were your kids on board?
*Did you not say that you had a hard time keeping your bow high enough on the way back in?
*Did you not indicate that you were not prepared with knowlege of how to place yourself on waves to keep from broaching?
*Did you know what broaching was?
*Did you indicate this was your first time on an inlet?
*Did you mention the height of the waves in the inlet?

Must have slipped your mind, when you created the survey! I'm sure you would not stack the deck just to prove your point, not to you, but to everyone else. Personally I disagree with those who say categorically that a bowrider is always inappropriate. I think you were reckless because you ultimately decided that you did "research", instead of making the mental note about what the minimum level of knowlege required and a substantive analysis of whether you did "enough research". I think you were reckless because you brought other people along for the ride, on your first time through.

One other point, that for you I think is relevant. Even if you get 95% of the people on here to say that you were not reckless, I will still think that you were. The point, which I belive you will obstinately miss because I have clearly pissed you off, is that on the water there is only one persons opinion that counts. The point is that person has to independantly determine what is or is not safe. You can always tell a person with, in my opinion, the right attitude, because they cop an attitude of needing to know more until proven otherwise. What you continue to show me is the attitude of not needing to know more and wanting to win personality contests. That's why I think your are reckless and that you still don't "get it". Becasue, in my opinion, I have peed you off and you are more interested now in proving me wrong, than learning the truth. The mark of a seafarer personality would be a thread phrased something like "Ghost has a good point about me being reckless and in hindsight I now see his point, how many of you though think that he is a real ahole?" If you put that survey up, I might actually vote in your favor.

I don't know how to convey that to you more clearly.

bp


What part of GALE WARNING did you not understand?

Homeport: Everett Wa Go to Top of Page

Flutterby

RO# 14378

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  20:13:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The "Poll" function does not seem to be working for me today. Last night I upgraded FireFox. Is that causing the problem?

Bob, I've been boating with the same vessel for 16 yrs and know how it handles in all kinds of waters and conditions. I have never even considered going out the Gate with this boat because I do not have the correct experience for that venture. I'll happily go with someone who has that experience, usually a professional skipper in his boat.

If the sea's call to you is that strong, trade in that bowrider for a more "seaworthy" boat designed to handle the big water out the inlet [and coming in].



Homeport: California Sierras/Gold Country Go to Top of Page

Brett Peck

RO# 943

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  20:15:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think he was reckless too!


Homeport: Everett, WA Go to Top of Page

walterv

RO# 12640



Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  20:20:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Question: How many people here think that low tide means no current?

Well I must say not me, but would like to be educated on that, no jokes, please explain the reason for the question. My experience tells me that current exists when the tide is either going out or coming in, slack tide presents no current.

Walter


And always remember, life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by those moments that take our breath away.

George Carlin

Homeport: Go to Top of Page

AF

RO# 7267

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  20:38:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Concerning tides, I find that the tides run about an hour past the predicted low and high tides. I also find that the tides run the fastest about one hour prior to the change.

Adam


Adam

"If you're going through hell...keep going"

Homeport: Point Lookout, NY Go to Top of Page

el sea

RO# 27061

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  20:40:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob,

You are on the right track. It appears that you have prepared what you thought you would need by your list. The recommendations from this forum will add to that list and your desire to learn will build the experience you need to answer a young lad someday when they ask as you have.

I had a charter one day where the young ladies had invited a couple of coasties along. During our sunset cruise I asked one of the coasties (these guys fly the helicopters out of Clearwater Florida) what would be the most important piece of safety gear to carry. They both said (in stereo) a mirror. Something to reflect while they look for you against the shiny sparkling water.

The wind will move a small craft at a very fast clip far away from where the may-day went out far over the horizon,therefore for a disabled vessel I think ground tackle that will hold in very deep water.

Good Luck,

L.C.

"It's not the vessel, it's the voyage"



Homeport: St Petersburg, Florida Go to Top of Page

papillon

RO# 18476

Posted - Aug 02 2007 :  20:43:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Reckless? Depends:

1. What is the safest time to run this inlet? Slack tide, slack tide after a flood tide or ebb tide? How much time do you have around slack tide before things could become dangerous?

2. What is the average wind speed and wave height at this time of year?

3. When they occur, how tall are the standing waves?

4. How soon can standing waves form in this inlet?

5. Does the Coast Guard offer a real-time inlet notice to all mariners?

These are but a complete list of questions I had before I took a 37' Aft Cabin over the Columbia Bar in 1999.

I guess I could have just observed the bar from shore for a few hours and followed some smaller boats out the next day.

Or I could have soiled myself when I happened upon a 12' standing wave after a calm and sunny couple of hours of fishing.

You'll be safe most of the time, yes. But when any number of unpredictable and independent variables align themselves, you'll be dead in a 20' bowrider. It is just a matter of time.



Homeport: Lake Coeur d'Alene, ID Go to Top of Page
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