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L Hall
RO# 1
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Posted - Aug 03 2007 : 17:00:54
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Bob, drive up to the top of Mt. Washington and jump off. You'll find that you are sliding down the mountain, at an angle, getting further from the summit, both vertically and horizontally. That is caused by gravity, the same force that is pulling your boat down the wave.
The other effect you'll find in inlets is the equivalent of the Doppler effect on sound. An ebbing current will create steeper waves that are closer together, like a compressed sound wave. If you turn off your engine in the middle of an inlet during an ebbing tide, you will find yourself being pushed back out the inlet, regardless of the wave direction.
I suspect that you experienced two or three foot waves during your inlet trip. Try it, alone, in 6 to 8s or better and you may have a better understanding of what we are talking about.
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| Les Hall, ATC Forum Host |
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Homeport: Concord, NH
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Aug 03 2007 : 17:13:30
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"Come on, do you all believe that waves just go up and down? Look at the picture from the wikipedia link and tell me that those water particles are NOT moving forward. Common sense here, fellas. I like how you all ignored the part that says the travel thousands of miles and concentrate on the other (contradictory) statement. I suggest that we are both right."
put a cork or something small in the water and see what happens to it as waves pass under it... it's not going to move. the water is not moving, it's not a current. it's only a vertical motion.
now, a boat will be moved by a wave but only because it will momentarily slip down the face of the wave... unlike a cork or piece of seaweed.
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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psalzer
RO# 4570
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Posted - Aug 03 2007 : 17:19:30
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Bob, you have been given many explanations, demonstrations, and advice, all of which you continue to ignore. You claim to have "hundreds of hours" at the helm" however it seems as you have learned nothing!! As I said in a previous post ... we are goind to read about you one day!!
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| Pete |
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Homeport: Fayetteville, Ga
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papillon
RO# 18476
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 Posted - Aug 03 2007 : 17:25:25
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"Cast not pearls before swine," Jesus Christ.
And for His sake, Bob, no, I'm not calling you a pig!
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Homeport: Lake Coeur d'Alene, ID
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blouderback
RO# 24057
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Posted - Aug 03 2007 : 17:32:59
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Pete, I only have 30 minutes experience in the ocean. This is why I'm asking these questions. I have learned quite a lot in the last couple of days!
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-Bob-
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"Annabo": 2005 Larson Senza 206 w/5.0L Bravo III
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Homeport: Chalfont, Pennsylvania
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Britanic
RO# 27562
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Posted - Aug 03 2007 : 17:41:44
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papillon, perhaps a better quote:
"you can't fix stupid" Larry the Cable Guy
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Homeport: Barnegat Bay, NJ
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papillon
RO# 18476
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Posted - Aug 03 2007 : 17:45:18
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Or..
"Better to be quiet and thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt," Mark Twain.
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Homeport: Lake Coeur d'Alene, ID
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Charlie
RO# 6922
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Posted - Aug 03 2007 : 17:48:39
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When you're laying on the ground and somebody's compressing your chest after drowning, is the water flying out of your mouth really moving?
Bob, this post is educational. What have you learned?
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Homeport:
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blouderback
RO# 24057
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Posted - Aug 03 2007 : 17:48:51
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"The only stupid question is the question not asked."
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-Bob-
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"Annabo": 2005 Larson Senza 206 w/5.0L Bravo III
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Homeport: Chalfont, Pennsylvania
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blouderback
RO# 24057
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Posted - Aug 03 2007 : 17:53:27
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quote:
Originally posted by charlie826
Bob, this post is educational. What have you learned?
Waves only move up and down, they don't have any forward motion.
I need a bigger boat.
I will probably be in the news if I try the inlet again.
Just kidding, I learned a lot of good stuff, and I hope others have gleened info from this post.
Thank you, and have a good evening, I'm outta here!
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-Bob-
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"Annabo": 2005 Larson Senza 206 w/5.0L Bravo III
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Homeport: Chalfont, Pennsylvania
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Msibley
RO# 16534
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Posted - Aug 03 2007 : 17:54:21
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quote:
Originally posted by charlie826
Bob, this post is educational. What have you learned?
Stay with your boat after it swamps...
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Mike
"War is cruelty. There's no use trying to reform it, the crueler it is the sooner it will be over."
"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are."
- Maj. Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman, Commanding, Union Armies-Military Division of the Mississippi
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Homeport: Melbourne, FL
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walterv
RO# 12640
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Posted - Aug 03 2007 : 18:04:35
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Les,
Thanks for the education, I never thought about it before but if anyone asked I would say waves move. Your analogy about the ball park was a good one. Also what Pascal said really hit home: "now, a boat will be moved by a wave but only because it will momentarily slip down the face of the wave... unlike a cork or piece of seaweed." The seaweed part of your statement was something I have always seen but never thought about it, a light bulb turned on when you mentioned that.
Most of the time I enjoy post's like Bob's purely as entertainment, this one really educated me on something that might have never of come up.
Thanks,
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And always remember, life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by those moments that take our breath away.
George Carlin |
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Msibley
RO# 16534
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Posted - Aug 03 2007 : 18:07:48
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Take more baths instead of showers Walter...it's incredible what you can learn by watching tub waves slop around all over the place. I especially like the displacement dynamics when lowering my tired old body into the tub. 
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Mike
"War is cruelty. There's no use trying to reform it, the crueler it is the sooner it will be over."
"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are."
- Maj. Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman, Commanding, Union Armies-Military Division of the Mississippi
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Homeport: Melbourne, FL
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Aug 03 2007 : 18:14:34
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"Bob, this post is educational. What have you learned?"
since we established that many boats will swamp, sink and barely stay afloat by the bow if they get in trouble in an inlet, the lesson is clear. Add a bow thruster to your boat so you have something to grab on until help arrives. If you can salvage a piece of line you could even tie your kids up high on the trhuster prop.
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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L Hall
RO# 1
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Posted - Aug 03 2007 : 18:17:15
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walter, that's the only reason I kept posting - same with the others I suspect. This stuff is important for a boater to understand and many other people besides Bob read it. But he's so stubborn that we have to explain everything ten ways from Sunday.
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| Les Hall, ATC Forum Host |
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Homeport: Concord, NH
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papillon
RO# 18476
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Posted - Aug 03 2007 : 18:44:43
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Les,
Overall a good thread. Thanks
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Homeport: Lake Coeur d'Alene, ID
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Perry
RO# 3836
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Posted - Aug 03 2007 : 21:52:35
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Bob,
Was fishing today out of Shinnecock Inlet...went out at the start of incoming to 2-3 footers. Traversing the Inlet was lumpy but not impassable. Seas outside built to 3-5 as we fished. We came back in during the outgoing tide...with the wind and the ocean waves there were standing 8 footers inside the inlet. Not for the squeamish or time to second guess. You must have a plan and the experience to carry it out. Coming down off the face of a wave and getting spun sideways is very easy to do.
Perfect Practice Makes Perfect.
Perry
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Homeport: Shinnecock
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Ghost
RO# 689
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Posted - Aug 03 2007 : 22:17:05
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Bob, seriously, what does it take to get the cotton out of your ears? If you don't want to hear anything, why do you keep asking?
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| What part of GALE WARNING did you not understand? |
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Homeport: Everett Wa
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bobh
RO# 13842
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Posted - Aug 04 2007 : 00:22:21
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Les,
The ballpark description was excellent...thanks.
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Bob
Stingray 250CR |
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Homeport: Delran, NJ
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Estimator
RO# 23140
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Posted - Aug 04 2007 : 10:56:58
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Ghost,
I think it is pointless. After fighting any constructive discussion of smart tabs, and stubbornly arguing that one that has not had them can’t have a valid point about them standing on the tired old adage, you can’t knock it if you haven’t tried it, (Buddhism I guess) setting off a three page thread of knowledgeable\experienced people repeating the same points again and again, everyone telling him that they could help some in certain situations, and might be dangerous in certain situations, and one person he deems credible posting recently……He has come to the conclusion that smart tabs may help some in some situations and could be dangerous in some situations, and it is “Bob’s idea”, and that point of view is now OK and officially blessed by Bob, I pity anyone in the interim, that went off on his blanket endorsement of smart tabs without regard as to the situations in which they might be used.. …..dah, three pages, 3 different threads, to come to the simple conclusion that the excellent information that had been repeated to him over and over is correct., but God help anyone that challenged his view before then.
I used to think I knew what BE meant, but I now believe it means…….Bob’s Empire
The knowledge in this thread is great, and I too have learned, but not because of Bob. It is akin to taking medicine; you can swallow a pill with water, the easiest way, or swallow it dry, a good way to choke. And most of his threads and post make me want to choke. I got the informative information in this thread many posts ago (And also from the Coast Guard) I don’t know if he’s got it yet, but when he does, he will grace us with his opinion that he has studied the post and deems the information BB (Bob Blessed) for all here, 4 or 5 pages later. Trying to get information to him is like talking to a fence post and not worth the effort IMO. I prefer dealing with people that are not blinded by stubbornness (it’s certainly more than normal questioning) and are a little quicker (hell of a lot quicker) on the up tick…he’s gone for the weekend I guess, with his I’m out of here comment, probably on the water, probably speeding of his little lake and feeling secure in the knowledge that he is smarter in all things, than anyone here, based on his extensive use of a pwc and about 3 years of owning boats, an 18 and 20 foot bow rider, and their use on a very small lake. If he is the new voice of wisdom here…..I feel sorry for new members he will lead astray.
I’m headed to my backyard to stare at my trailer and dream of being on the water….will someone please e-mail me when he gets banned again.
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"In Heat"
1997 Bayliner Capri 2350 LS SE, 454, Bravo III
"Everything is changing. People are taking their comedians seriously and the politicians as a joke."
-Will Rogers-
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Homeport: Lake Eufaula, Oklahoma
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Tanqueray
RO# 17091
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Posted - Aug 04 2007 : 15:33:02
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"Tanq, he was encouraging me the whole way, never had any fear. It really wasn't as bad as you all think, there was never any danger of swamping, broaching, plowing the bow, waves over the bow, or anything. Jeepers, I didn't even get a splash in my face!"
So WHAT then was the purpose of this Question to begin with?
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| KALENA II |
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Homeport: New York
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blouderback
RO# 24057
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Posted - Aug 04 2007 : 18:37:32
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Nevermind. There is no point.
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-Bob-
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"Annabo": 2005 Larson Senza 206 w/5.0L Bravo III
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Homeport: Chalfont, Pennsylvania
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Scottath
RO# 26640
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Posted - Aug 04 2007 : 19:11:58
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Ive seen people go through some inlets in a canoe. I would say it depends on the inlet.
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Homeport: NY
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Tanqueray
RO# 17091
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Posted - Aug 05 2007 : 13:52:35
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I guess maybe that last question seemed a bit sarcastic but even YOU would have to admit that after reading the initial post that you wanted to know how to make the next possible outing easier............and then reading this..........
"there was never any danger of swamping, broaching, plowing the bow, waves over the bow, or anything."
It looks to me like there was NO problem yet you asked the original question as if there was.
I was JUST GETTING READY to cut you a little more slack to but now I have to return to my original assumption that you crave attention and lots of it and use this forum for your own personal form of entertainment.
By the way.....Did you ever meet up with MikeeH like you were going to?
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| KALENA II |
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Homeport: New York
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Estimator
RO# 23140
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Posted - Aug 05 2007 : 13:55:49
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Tanq……good morning, slept in late today. The walkways at our marina are a little less than a foot under the water and it looks like our boating season will resume next weekend, which is also my lovely bide of 22 years birthday.
Since Bob puts soooooo much importance in polls. (I don’t)….check the latest results of his, I was surprised when I looked this morning, but it does give me confidence in the overall knowledge of the people that use this board.
Bob, your tsunami example is dead on right, and regardless of what anyone else says, any article ever printed, or any science to the contrary, with that one example, I DO believe that water particles move forward with the waves. Just ask those poor tsunami survivors and they will tell you that those waves were definitely moving forward…..a great example, and I am just waiting for the scientific community to rewrite their books and catch up with your knowledge regarding waves.
While your ocean experience was thirty minutes, and I stated I had none, that wasn’t totally correct. A few years ago my wife and I went to the Bahamas, and rented a damn big ass Boston Whaler (27 or 30 foot-convinced the guy I knew what I was doing, with a big ass motor) First of all, I found that cell phones aren’t much good between some islands. We had the boat for two weeks and explored the islands. It was absolutely one of the neatest things we had ever done, but I was reckless, and know I did a couple of stupid things that endangered the lives of me and my wife. I got us caught in a squall (learned later that they are very common, and predictable in the Bahamas) that came up in about 5 minutes and survived waves that appeared to be larger than the boat. We were scared to death and considered just taking the boat back if we lived through that experience. I learned very quickly some hands on experience of waves, tides and currents and as well as knowing that what ever the forecast was for the weather, it is just that, a forecast.. I also learned that with a big damn ass, self baling boat, plenty of power, and a lot of prying, that even the ignorant can get a chance to live and boat another day. I wouldn’t recommend what we did to anyone.
If you’ve never been scared ****less while boating, than you are either the greatest boater ever, right out of the box, or haven’t accumulated enough man hours yet.
Let’s debate Dolefins again….that was great fun.
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"In Heat"
1997 Bayliner Capri 2350 LS SE, 454, Bravo III
"Everything is changing. People are taking their comedians seriously and the politicians as a joke."
-Will Rogers-
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Homeport: Lake Eufaula, Oklahoma
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blouderback
RO# 24057
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Posted - Aug 06 2007 : 09:14:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanqueray
By the way.....Did you ever meet up with MikeeH like you were going to?
Geeze, do you keep notes on everything I've posted? How'd you remember that?
In any case, no I've not met up yet with Mike. I have his phone number, but I've just been too busy. Week at the shore, new addition at the house, Kids started football and cheerleading practice, etc. Plus, my wife is a little leery of me meeting my friends from the internet. She has no idea how great you all are!
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-Bob-
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"Annabo": 2005 Larson Senza 206 w/5.0L Bravo III
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Homeport: Chalfont, Pennsylvania
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shepdog
RO# 16889
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Posted - Aug 06 2007 : 09:59:20
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quote:
Originally posted by In the know
As my dad says - some people are meant to be Captains', and others are meant to charter.
And still others seem destined to become chum....
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Shep
Looking for my next Sabre...
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Homeport: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL
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PeteMrrs
RO# 4125
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Posted - Aug 06 2007 : 10:22:15
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Bob:
You are the best. I find your threads and outlook on life to be truly entertaining. And just when I think it can get no more entertaining, you express your wife's concern for your safety when meeting fellow RO's. She doesn't appear concerned over Block Island or running inlets . . . . but, MikeH could spell danger.
Bob, I'm not poking fun at you I am just entertained.
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| If you are not enjoying every single day, you are just depleting the oxygen supply for the rest of us! |
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Homeport: Osprey Marina, Myrtle Beach SC
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Freddy
RO# 6704
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Posted - Aug 06 2007 : 10:35:44
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Great wave/tide/current info, as to the other, "Yawn", err, sorry
Fred
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| You can tell the character of a man by the way he treats those who can't help him." |
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Homeport: Lake Texoma, Richland Chambers Reservoir
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STEELA
RO# 17957
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Posted - Aug 06 2007 : 15:22:45
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Bob, some people will feed you all sorts of BS on many, many different topics. I personally visualize way before I get to a destination what that destination will be like based on condistions I hear about and see. Inlets are light light switches. Many times just sitting out a tide change can mean the difference between life or death. If you get out there again and it's too nasty to come in with a following sea, wait it out. Of the 100's of butchered landings I have witnessed there's no doubt in my mind 99% of them were a result of the Capt. figuring out conditions "During" the docking proceedure, not way before. Same goes for your inlet voyage.
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Homeport: newburyport, ma
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Was I reckless in running an inlet with a bowrider
