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gardnersf

RO# 13607



Posted - Aug 23 2007 :  22:47:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm investigating getting a larger boat. I am looking for a 33-36' boat that sleeps 4 without dropping the dinette. I am trying to keep it in the $35K to $45K range.

So far there are three models that interest me. (amended)

Wellcraft 34 GranSport - 87-92
Sea Ray 340 86-90
Regal 360 -88-90
Cruisers 3370 86-92

The only boat I have been on so far is the Sea Ray. Anyone have other models to look at? Does anyone have any feedback on these models? Things to look for?

Scott Gardner
Smithfield, RI
1986 Trojan 10 meter Mid-Cabin Express "More Family Time"
Twin Crusader 454 Straight Inboards
1963 17' Boston Whaler - 90HP Evinrude

Edited by - gardnersf on Oct 05 2007 22:29:18

Homeport: Barrington, RI

gardnersf

RO# 13607



Posted - Aug 24 2007 :  08:36:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thansk Larry.

Thats how I got to this list so far. However, if there is someone with personal experience with a boat that I have not singled out. I may give it another look. The pictures often do not do the boat justice.


Scott Gardner
Smithfield, RI
1986 Trojan 10 meter Mid-Cabin Express "More Family Time"
Twin Crusader 454 Straight Inboards
1963 17' Boston Whaler - 90HP Evinrude

Homeport: Barrington, RI Go to Top of Page

something new

RO# 27103

Posted - Aug 24 2007 :  08:48:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm in the middle of looking to upsize as well. I've looked at JD Power boat rankings and was quite surprised to see Wellcraft didn't fare very well in the cruiser catagories, I've always heard good things about them. Another make you may want to consider is the Four Winns Vista. I currently own a smaller FW and if they make their bigger boats as well as my 23' sundancer, you would be loooking at a quality boat. As far as the JD Power rankings go, Regal was way up there as well as Sea Ray. Carver also makes a very nice boat, I've been on a few of them and they all seem very well built.

Anchor Point-Lake Erie
1985 Four Winns
Sundowner 225

Homeport: anchor point, lake erie Go to Top of Page

TomKat

RO# 25229

Posted - Aug 24 2007 :  09:46:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cruisers Inc makes some nice boats, not sure on layout in vintage you're looking at though. Tom


Homeport: Menasha, Wisconsin Go to Top of Page

Freddy

RO# 6704

Posted - Aug 24 2007 :  10:34:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Scott,

What style of boat are you looking for? Are you trying to stay with the tunnel cabin of an Express Cruiser, or wanting to move up to a full windowed salon? Bridge?

Fred


You can tell the character of a man by the way he treats those who can't help him."

Homeport: Lake Texoma, Richland Chambers Reservoir Go to Top of Page

gardnersf

RO# 13607



Posted - Aug 24 2007 :  10:58:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm looking to stay with an express at this point. One boat I really like is the 88-90 Tiara 33, but it's a little rich for me at $70K+. I have started looking at the Cruisers 3370 which is intriguing. The raised bridge is somewhere between and express and a sedan bridge. I;ll have to check one out in person.

Scott Gardner
Smithfield, RI
1986 Trojan 10 meter Mid-Cabin Express "More Family Time"
Twin Crusader 454 Straight Inboards
1963 17' Boston Whaler - 90HP Evinrude

Homeport: Barrington, RI Go to Top of Page

glenncal1

RO# 23116

Posted - Aug 24 2007 :  11:01:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Scott-you can also look at the Trojan 10-11 meter expresses. Some have midcabins and some don't. Very beamy and well made boats.

Jim
Sonic 33 SE

Homeport: Centennial, CO Go to Top of Page

Ghost

RO# 689



Posted - Aug 24 2007 :  11:41:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In that size range, sleeping 4 is not a tall order. There must be tons of boats that meet that basic criteria. As others have said, you need to include more details on what you want.

Why not older, given the budget?
Seaworthy characteristics, and your definition of what that means because nobody else will have the same defintion for the term?
Why an express? Not arguing, just looking for the attributes you want that themselves suggest an express.
What do you like to do on the water? Fish? Cruise? How much time do you spend outside the cabin?
What is your prior experience? Have you been on this type of boat before?

A lot of people are initially attracted to the boat styles with lots of cabin and little cockpit, to find that when they are on the water they really want just the opposite. Others want all cockpit to fish and then find that they hate sleeping even a night on the boat. How did you arrive at your own perceived wants and needs? Maybe this is a moot point, since you already have a somewhat similar style boat, but keep asking the questions. I found that as I moved bigger, I changed my boating habits! My former criteria list actually changed!

Engines?

This is the fun part, but you know how it works. You have to provide every detail you can think of. Even if they seem silly at first. Now, what did you have for breakfast this morning? Sib alone should be able to make the call based on that amount of info alone.

bp





What part of GALE WARNING did you not understand?

Homeport: Everett Wa Go to Top of Page

gardnersf

RO# 13607



Posted - Aug 24 2007 :  13:52:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the replies. I will try to elaborate a little more.

Engines. - I would prefer inboard engines. I have stern drives now and while they have their advantages, I'm not crazy about all that money bating in salt water. Fresh water cooling is a must. I have been told that straight inboards hold some advantages over v-drives, but I'm unclear on that aspect. It makes sense that there is less moving parts, but not sure what else the transmission provide in terms of benefits.

Usage - I have 2 kids, 6 and 7 who love going on the boat. We tend to use it one or 2 days of each weekend with overnights both on the dock and on moorings about once a month. We use the boat regularly from June through September. We use it intermittently in October and usually pull it mid October. ~50% of the time we have additional friends come out with us. This is usually another family of 4 or 5. That gets very tight on my current boat both in room and performance. Our usual trips are 30 minutes or so to Potter's cove in Narragansett Bay (Prudence Island. It may also include a further ride to see the bay, etc.

Once a year we go to Block Island for a week in a Marina. We just completed the trip this year and that is where the room for 4 sleeping without the dinette needing to be converted comes from. Dropping and raising the dinette every day gets a little tedious. We also would like the option of kids friends staying over occasionaly which leaves the dinette as expansion berthing. We also need storage for clothes, food, etc for up to a week without living out of bags and moving things around all the time.

I also have soem slip imitations at our marina in terms of beam. 13' is probably the most I can do (which isn't much of a limitation in this style of boat I can accomdte up to about 39'LOA (Although I don't want to pay for all that):)

On our typical cruise, we spend a lot of time swiming, kayaking, playing on the dinghy, etc. I have just started to do some light fishing, so a little cockpit room is nice as well. I can't see doing any serious fishing off this boat, I do have friends with charter boats for canyon runs, etc.) more for entertainment than anything.

My general crusing waters are Naragansett Bay and Block Island. We would like to take longer trips, but feel a little limited in space in size of the boat. The longer trips would be coastal waters up to Boston and down to New York City\Long Island.

Why an express?? - There are several factors, one is cockpit seating. Since we often have people with us or meet with friends and then eat on one boat or another, the cockpit gets regular use. I haev considered a fly bridge or sedan bridge, but cockpit seatng can be limited and is usually split. I also like the idea of having some speed at hand. I currently cruise around 22-24 knots and an 18-20 knot cruise is fine. Fuel isn't a big factor but less is still better. ideally the boat still planes, rather than pigging along (many Sea ray 390's seem underpowered with the 454;s for example). I am open to other suggestions though, as long as they meet my admiral's approval.

I am willing to go older, but my familiarity with older boats is fairly small. I also find that older boats have LOTS of wood down below which tends to make a dark cabin. These were just a few of the boats that have caught my attention.



For breakfast? I had a carnation instant breakfast. I had an orthdontist appointment yesterday and my teeth are killing me :)


Scott Gardner
Smithfield, RI
1986 Trojan 10 meter Mid-Cabin Express "More Family Time"
Twin Crusader 454 Straight Inboards
1963 17' Boston Whaler - 90HP Evinrude

Homeport: Barrington, RI Go to Top of Page

abalmuth

RO# 13885

Posted - Aug 24 2007 :  13:59:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gardnersf

...I have started looking at the Cruisers 3370 which is intriguing. ....

what year 3370?
We had a 1987 3370 for over 6 years and it was an incredible boat. We took it everywhere, had a much better ride than the 37 sundancer we got to replace it!


_
Cruisers 5000 Sedan Sport/CAT 12LTR's -
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright
until you hear them speak.........

Homeport: Long Island, NY Go to Top of Page

Billylll

RO# 24494



Posted - Aug 24 2007 :  14:05:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Scott; I am partial to Mainships, you might want to look at the 31 Sedan Bridge 1993-1999, they have copious space in the salon a full sized shower and head. There are 2 staterooms the master has a queen sized berth the smaller stateroom has 2 bunk beds and the sofa pulls out to make a bed. The dinette can also be used for sleeping if needed. There is plenty of storage it has a 7 cubic foot frig/freezer, most of the amenities of home. The fly bridge will seat 6 comfortably 8 if you have a few kids with you. They cruise a bit slower 16 to 17knots. Most come equipped with Generators and Air Conditioning. There are many good ones to be found at brokerages as well as the internet. I have the 40 Sedan Bridge and love it.
Regards Bill


WIRELESS ONE,
36 Gulfstar
Trawler
Little Egg, N.J.

Edited by - Billylll on Aug 24 2007 15:27:33

Homeport: Tuckerton, N.J. Go to Top of Page

gardnersf

RO# 13607



Posted - Aug 24 2007 :  14:11:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Abalmuth,

The 3370's I saw were between 86 and 92 with the majority in the 88 and 89 range. Great feedback on the ride. My good boating friend has an 87 26' and it has been a very good boat. Thansk for the feedback.

How did you like the helm\cockpit layout? I think I may add that to the list to view in person.

Billy, I hadn't looked at any Mainships. The newer ones I saw don't tend to sleep as many. I will check those out.


Scott Gardner
Smithfield, RI
1986 Trojan 10 meter Mid-Cabin Express "More Family Time"
Twin Crusader 454 Straight Inboards
1963 17' Boston Whaler - 90HP Evinrude

Homeport: Barrington, RI Go to Top of Page

abalmuth

RO# 13885

Posted - Aug 24 2007 :  15:39:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gardnersf

Abalmuth,
The 3370's I saw were between 86 and 92 with the majority in the 88 and 89 range. Great feedback on the ride. My good boating friend has an 87 26' and it has been a very good boat. Thansk for the feedback.

How did you like the helm\cockpit layout? I think I may add that to the list to view in person.

Some 3370 good points : Straight inboards, not V-drives- the engine weight is not at the A$$ of the boat– we added a GenSet and still had peaty of room in the ER to get to everything – I am 6’1” and well over 200lbs and did all of the work with no issues
I had radar and a Garmin 182c at the helm and had room to see all- had good visibility to see both the anchor and the stern- because of the Straight drives there is very little bow rise.
The boat ran like a tank and was very sold- we had 7.4 fwc crusaders’ and cruised at 22knts – do not get smaller engines - it is 11’10” wide and I think over 36’ in total
Cruisers used this hull on 3 or 4 models for over 10 years!
Tremendous space for a boat its size, both sofas open to make beds with the rear sofa having a curtain to block it off from the main salon – there is well over 6’ head allover- there is a full size DOOR to go into the cabin- not a hatch system
My wife & I with 3 dogs would spend weeks on the boat all over long island sound & out to Martha’s and Newport – with 300gal tanks it had a great range for its size
Some of the bad items was that 2 of the deck hatches are trapezoid in shape and if broken it’s tough to get fixed, also the flip down transom door is prone to breaking- which lead to the fact that you have to use the ladder to get to the swim platform
No much more bad I can say without going into more depths of my memory
BTW: my wife is still pissed off that we sold it!


_
Cruisers 5000 Sedan Sport/CAT 12LTR's -
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright
until you hear them speak.........

Homeport: Long Island, NY Go to Top of Page

Billylll

RO# 24494



Posted - Aug 24 2007 :  16:04:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://www.mainship.com/models/previous_models/31sb.htm
This is a link to the Mainship historical document specifications page for the 31 Sedan Bridge.


WIRELESS ONE,
36 Gulfstar
Trawler
Little Egg, N.J.

Homeport: Tuckerton, N.J. Go to Top of Page

Veebyes

RO# 11224

Posted - Aug 24 2007 :  18:15:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
IMHO finding anything worth buying in your size range for under $100K will be a challenge at best unless it is very old & most likely will come with a bunch of expensive issues which will have to be dealt with.

Express cruisers are fine if you don't mind living in a cave & don't mind sacrificing all that space on top of the cave because it is such a pain to get to. They do go fast however & that is fine if you don't mind paying the price to make them go fast & don't mind sacrificing inside space to accomodate engines & big fuel tanks to feed them.

If you boat around Long Island Sound you must have seen a few of these in your travels.



LOD is 32. LOA is just short of 36.

It is very much a family cruiser with a little fishing in mind. It is no speedster but most of the 97 & later 32+2 have a Cummins 370hp or similar Yanmar & can cruise at an honest 18kts loaded to cruise. 260gal fuel capacity means little time is spent worrying about where the next fuel dock is & wasting time fueling up there. It carrys 115gal fresh water. Try finding that capacity in ANY express cruiser. There is a configuration that actually does have a second cabin with bunks but it is rare. The most common is the 32+2 which has an island Queen berth fwd & a mid cabin berth that can actually sleep 3 adults. It is larger than King sized. I got creative & made a filler cushion for the 'U' shaped seating on the bridge creating sleeping for 2 more adults (tightish) Plenty room for 1. So, depending how you do it the boat could sleep 7 adults without sticking anyone in one of those under cockpit dungeons. The Admiral especially likes the galley location since it is just inside the cabin so she is always part of whatever is going on in the cockpit.

One of the nicest things about these boats from a cruisers point of view are the extremely wide sidecks. No hanging on to something just to walk forward. No climbing through windshields then walking on slippery cabin tops to get to a fashionably sloping bow with no flat area to safely work on.

The Albin 32+2 does look different. There is no confusing it with something else as happens with so many look alike express cruisers.

Sometimes it is good to look outside 'the box' & not just follow the crowd.



Homeport: Bermuda Go to Top of Page

Prospective

RO# 23085

Posted - Aug 27 2007 :  10:11:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Scott,

YOu and I are boating in the same waters. We spend most of our time in Potters, and Just got back from a weekend at Block Island. I have 4 kids plus wife on our boat, 28ft twin engine express (Monterey). With 4-6ft swells in the sound, the trip to BI was a little hairy. Not sure I would do it on any smaller boat. I might throw Monterey into the ring for your search. Our 28 sleeps 4 without converting the dinette. When I was searching, I found them comparable but much cheaper then similar Sea Rays, I also liked the layout better. I know Monterey makes boats up to 35ft. The disadvantage is there are not as many available as others such as Sea Ray and Cruisers.

I'll keep an eye out for you. Our kids are the same age. Good luck with the search.


1990 Tiara 3600 Open
Twin 3208 CAT Diesels

Homeport: Barrington, RI Go to Top of Page

Delaware Jim

RO# 10399

Posted - Aug 27 2007 :  13:12:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Scott,

Putting in a plug for a different type of boat, my 36' Uniflite aft cabin has great space, built like a "battleship" and is well within your price range with low hours Crusader 454's. See note in Classified section or web site at

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzet4dp8

Delaware Jim




"Still In the Mood"
1985 Chris Craft 50' Constellation

Homeport: Indian Harbour Beach FL Go to Top of Page

gardnersf

RO# 13607



Posted - Aug 27 2007 :  13:38:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the additional info. Jim, I will take a look.

Wocket, where do you boat out of in Barrington. Our good friends we boat with are at Stanley's They have an 87 Cruisers 26.

I agree with you on the trip to Block, one of the reasons we are looking fora bigger boat. My boat handles swells well, but it would be a more comfortbale ride. Also I'm told the bigger boats handle the stiff chop better due to their weight.

Where do yuo moor in Potters? We will probably be there this weekend?


Scott Gardner
Smithfield, RI
1986 Trojan 10 meter Mid-Cabin Express "More Family Time"
Twin Crusader 454 Straight Inboards
1963 17' Boston Whaler - 90HP Evinrude

Homeport: Barrington, RI Go to Top of Page

Prospective

RO# 23085

Posted - Aug 27 2007 :  14:32:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Scott,

I keep the boat at Cove Haven on the other side of town. We usually anchor in back next to the "Rock Pile" where the little island pops up at low tide. We might make it there once or twice this weekend. We are a white boat with dark blue canvas. Usually have a dink off the back along with screaming kids! If you see us, say hi.

As for bigger boats, the swells really were not too bad. More "exciting" than anything else. The thing I have more of a problem with is the wind blown chop. If its 3ft high and spaced right or confused, my boat can pound no matter how I trim her. Like the upper bay can and does get often. I think a heavier, beameyer boat would be able to handle more of that with less drama. The swell to BI this weekend was big but not wind driven. And it was spaced enough apart so I rode up and over without getting launched.

The other thing to think about is speed. My boat will come off plane at less than 25mph which is pretty quick to run in a big chop. A boat that could plane at a slower speed would be an improvement. Anyway, it seems like we are dealing with the same stuff. Hope to see you out there


1990 Tiara 3600 Open
Twin 3208 CAT Diesels

Homeport: Barrington, RI Go to Top of Page

reinbilt

RO# 27174

Posted - Aug 27 2007 :  15:01:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Scott,
If tou really like the Tiara 33 try to make the deal work. This summer I moved up from a small express, 1998 250 Sundancer to a 96 Tiara 31 Open. I doubt I would ever go back to an express cruiser. The large cockpit is great. Plenty of room for 4 chairs if needed and the upper helm area has alot of built in seating.



Homeport: Indian River, MI Go to Top of Page

sbw1

RO# 24048

Posted - Aug 27 2007 :  15:21:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We owned a 30' 1986 SR and I thought the 34 would be a logical step up for us. It was a nice boat in its day with a good layout. We ended up with a bigger boat because of space needs. SRs of that era should be thoroughly tested for stringer and transom rot. It's very common. The windows also leak and the boat has a fabric headliner that stains when the water comes in. You will probably see stains and if not, run the boat in sloppy weather where water comes over the foredeck. Then check for wet spots down below. Walk the foredeck to check for oil canning, also common where water has rotted the core. Engine hours on the meter should be suspect as the meters were easily turned off by removing a wire under the dash or at the meter. Repowering may be in your future if the engines are original. If you find a boat that passes inspection, you will enjoy it.


Homeport: Go to Top of Page

gardnersf

RO# 13607



Posted - Aug 28 2007 :  00:06:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
sbw, thanks for the replies. Any thoughts on the 1990's SR 330? maybe 92-95? I also have taken a look at Doral's I believe they are a well made boat.

Thanks for all the suggestions!


Scott Gardner
Smithfield, RI
1986 Trojan 10 meter Mid-Cabin Express "More Family Time"
Twin Crusader 454 Straight Inboards
1963 17' Boston Whaler - 90HP Evinrude

Homeport: Barrington, RI Go to Top of Page

sbw1

RO# 24048

Posted - Aug 28 2007 :  15:13:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would expect the 330s of that era to be comparable to my 93 370. Very similar appearance and style. Probably very similar build quality with the usual SR issues of leaks. While my 93 leaked like a sieve, it had no rot. I did add PSS seals to keep the bilge dry which goes a long way toward preventing rot. The hull was all glass so I did not worry about that rotting. I did have nagging suspicions about the decking but it passed a rigorous survey.I was forover removing water stains from the fabric head liner and replaced the fabric in the v-berth prior to selling it. My yard was never able to eliminate the deck/hull joint leaks. The boat's rub rails looked brand new after 11 years and we never had a hard docking to explain the leaks. The suspicion was the close, steep waves on Lake Michigan flexed the deck and let the water into the boat. This may be less of an issue with a 330 because it has a much shorter foredeck. I have to say my issues were invisible to friends that we boated with because the boat really held its appearance. But keeping it looking good required $$$$$. We bought the Tiara and leaks are a thing of the past.


Homeport: Go to Top of Page

gardnersf

RO# 13607



Posted - Aug 28 2007 :  21:29:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
sbw, that is very valuable insight. One thing about my current boat that I like is the absence of leaks. I did have a port hole start to leak, but the seal has just deteriorated over 17 years. It was an easy 1 hour fix to reseal. I think that leaking would drive me crazy

Scott Gardner
Smithfield, RI
1986 Trojan 10 meter Mid-Cabin Express "More Family Time"
Twin Crusader 454 Straight Inboards
1963 17' Boston Whaler - 90HP Evinrude

Homeport: Barrington, RI Go to Top of Page

gardnersf

RO# 13607



Posted - Oct 05 2007 :  22:28:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi again, I've done some additional research and have found a 1986 Trojan International 10 meter express local to me. We checked out the boat today and it was in remarkably good condition.

http://tinyurl.com/ysms3f

I've read the reviews by Pascoe and it seems to be a well built boat. It was in the Bertram-Trojan days. The gunwhales were wide and the foredeck was solid, flat and textured. 700+ hours on 454's. Price seems appropriate as well.

Does anyone have any experience on this boat? Anything to look for on a follow up inspection (Survey will come with any purchase of course. I had been looking at Formula 34's as well, but the one this broker had just sold.

One thing I loved on this boat was the large cockpit. Very versatile.




Scott Gardner
Smithfield, RI
1986 Trojan 10 meter Mid-Cabin Express "More Family Time"
Twin Crusader 454 Straight Inboards
1963 17' Boston Whaler - 90HP Evinrude

Homeport: Barrington, RI Go to Top of Page

RWS

RO# 25075



Posted - Oct 06 2007 :  05:14:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Trojan International series was a groundbreaking design when it was introduced in 1981. Today the design advantages of the Delta-Conic hull are wiedly misunderstood by many, including Pascoe.

I am familiar with the Trojan's line of International series vessels and own a 10 meter which we repowered in 2005.

I will post a couple of published reviews after this post.

RWS


1983 Trojan International 10 Meter
Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner

Homeport: FL Go to Top of Page

RWS

RO# 25075



Posted - Oct 06 2007 :  05:15:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This article first appeared in the February 1987 issue of Sea Magazine. All or parts of the information contained in this article might be outdated.

Trojan International 10 Meter
A gutsy, avant-garde original

Peter Bohr

If you’re 47 years old, drive a Mercedes or a Corvette, operate your own business, have a net worth greater than $1 million, and enjoy power boats, then it’s not a bad bet that you also own a Trojan International series boat, probably a 10 Meter.

That’s the profile of the typical Trojan owner these days, according to a marketing survey just completed by the company.

Any boat builder – or automobile manufacturer or pasta machine maker, for that matter – would love to have customer demographics like that. And Trojan can thank its 33-foot International 10 Meter model for attracting such an upscale group.

It seems like only yesterday that Trojan surprised the American power boat industry with its avant-garde 10 Meter. But the boat is now in its seventh year and Trojan has sold nearly 600 of them.

The 10 Meter was a gutsy move for a staid builder like Trojan. For some 35 years the folks at Trojan’s plant in Lancaster, PA had been quietly turning out nice, conservative family cruisers. “Boats built to a price,” is how several marine surveyors described older Trojans to me.

The early Trojans were of course constructed of wood. When the company switched to fiberglass in the late 1960s, the status of Trojan boats moved upward a notch. But despite the change of materials, the designs remained much the same, hardly distinguishable from Chris-Crafts, Owens or boats from a dozen other American builders.

Then around 1980, Trojan president Don Seith took a flier. Armed with the progressive ideas of naval architect Harry Schoell, he convinced Trojan’s parent company, Whittaker Corporation, that Trojan should build a trend setting, new kind of cruiser. Inspired by the ultra costly, ultra chic boats from Italian builder Riva, Schoell developed his own rendition of Riva’s “Med-style” boat.

The 10 Meter’s lines, inside and out, are excitingly different from most cruisers, as different as a Chevrolet Corvette from a Ford Country Squire. With its long, sleek, downward sloping foredeck, the boat resembles some wild beast ready to pounce on its prey. Below deck, the 10 Meter is filled with modernistic curved bulkheads that not only make the interior seem more like the cabin of a Lear Jet than a yacht, but are also very space efficient.

“The boat’s visual appeal initially catches the interest of buyers,” says George Rinderspacher of Pacific West Yachts in Newport Beach. “However, it’s the boat’s performance that finally grabs them.” George ought to know; he sold 24 new Trojans in 1986.

Indeed the 10 Meter’s success is based on more than sexy styling. Harry Schoell came up with an innovative hull to go with the 10 Meter’s innovative lines topside. The hull, called the “DeltaConic” design by Trojan, has unusual 18-inch wide, horizontal chines that run from bow to stern on either side. In between the chines is a more usual modified V-hull, one that’s quite deep at the bow but flattens out toward the stern.

What makes the 10 Meter truly different from other boats is its almost uncanny stability. The 10 Meter’s wide beam combined with the wide chines quickly stills any rolling motion. I’ve never been aboard a similar sized boat that felt as stable at dockside as this Trojan. Under way, the chines make the boats feel – to use an old car salesman’s cliché – like it corners on rails. Mind you, steering response isn’t especially quick. But the boat’s attitude is solid and secure as those chines lock in for the turn.

The 10 Meter’s standard twin 350 Crusader engines use a combined total of 18 gallons of gasoline per hour at a cruise speed of 28 to 30 miles per hour, according to George Rinderspacher. An AquaSonic muffler system that vents exhaust out the sides of the hull beneath the waterline is integrated into the hull during its layup. The system make the 10 Meter an unusually quiet power boat whether idling in the slip or running full bore.

The 10 Meter’s hull is solid fiberglass, but the decks and cabin side are cored with end grain balsa. My marine surveyor/advisors all commented that Trojan’s gelcoat work on the 10 Meter appeared to be of high quality.

Trojan also uses some innovative construction methods on the boat. For instance, the company vacuum bonds certain parts of the boat together. Liners are literally sucked against the hull by a vacuum pump until a resin and glass paste hardens. The technique gives a very uniform tight fit.

The 10 Meter comes in three versions. The Express, which made its debut at the Miami Boat Show in February 1981, came first. Like all the versions of the 10 Meter, the Express has a forward stateroom down below as well as a large galley, a dinette and a head. The helm and cockpit on the Express are essentially a single area, providing a huge arena for playing, partying or sun worshipping. And that’s exactly how most owners use their 10 Meters, according to the company’s survey.

The slightly more conventional-looking Sedan has a streamlined flying bridge, a saloon with a convertible sofa, and a severely abbreviated cockpit. A good configuration for cooler climes, the Sedan was introduced in early 1982.

The Mid-Cabin went into production in 1985. The exterior profile of this version is virtually identical to the Express. But the Mid-Cabin has a small sleeping area for two (with sitting headroom only) tucked under the helm.

Last year Trojan introduced a stretched version of the 10 Meter, called the 10.8 Meter (35 feet). It’s a 10 Meter Sedan with an extended cockpit and is aimed at the sportfishermen.

There have been no major changes in the basic 10 Meter design since its introduction in 1981. However, in one fell swoop in 1983, Trojan made some 200 detail changes. These included such things as upgraded interior fabrics, new instrumentation for the helm, and heavier stainless steel port lights. At the same time, Trojan abandoned what surely must have been one of the all-time worst gimmicks aboard a small yacht: electrically operated doors to the forward stateroom and head compartment. They were indeed attention getters at boat shows, but a marine environment is not exactly ideal for electric motors.

Don Seith’s gamble has obviously paid off handsomely for Trojan. The company still builds conventional cruisers (the “Classic” series), but their percentage of total sales has dwindled to 20 percent. Meanwhile, Harry Schoell’s 10 Meter has spawned a whole series of International boats, ranging from the 8.6 Meter (29 feet) to the 13 Meter (43 feet). Moreover, other American power boat manufacturers have fallen all over themselves to come up with Med-style boats of their own.

To be sure, a Trojan International 10 meter is not for everyone. But then neither is a Corvette.

This article first appeared in the February 1987 issue of Sea Magazine. All or parts of the information contained in this article might be outdated.



1983 Trojan International 10 Meter
Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner

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Posted - Oct 06 2007 :  05:16:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cutting Edge Cruiser - Trojan 10 Meter Express
________________________________________
by Peter Bohr

Trojan's 10 Meter Express has 'the look'
Print This Article | Email This Article

"Euro-style" or "Med-style" -- call it what you will. But peruse any harbor, and you'll see plenty of examples of "the look."



Low, sleek and powerful, the Euro-style boat is as different from the traditional boxy power cruiser as Hillary Clinton is from Rush Limbaugh.



It was Trojan Yachts, formerly of Lancaster, Pennsylvania, that first brought the look to this country. When Trojan's 10 Meter International Series Express made its debut in 1981, it launched a new kind of family cruiser that's since been embraced by most American boat builders, from Bayliner to Tiara.



Besides giving the boat a sexy profile, the bold styling of Trojan's 10 Meter has several functional advantages over the usual flying bridge sedan cruiser of the day. The huge cockpit beneath the radar arch is the perfect place for sunning or partying.



And because the helm is in the cockpit -- not high above on the bridge -- the skipper isn't removed from any socializing in the cockpit. Nor does the skipper have to sprint up and down steps to handle lines, which makes dockside maneuvers much easier.



The Trojan 10 Meter's avant-garde look doesn't stop there. Belowdecks, the cabin is filled with modernistic curved surfaces and lush decor. On the earliest 10 Meters, the curved bulkhead door leading to the forward stateroom was even electrically operated, like something from the starship ,/Enterprise.



But once again, there is function in the form. Instead of unusable voids made by the sharp corners of square bulkheads, the 10 Meter's curved panels make for a more spacious and comfortable interior. "We didn't want people to get beat up by the corner of a table," said Harry Schoell, the 10 Meter's designer.



The boat's visual appeal alone might have made it a marketplace hit. But Schoell also came up with an innovative hull to go along with the 10 Meter's innovative lines topside.



Schoell's patented DeltaConic hull design has 18 inch wide horizontal chines that run from bow to stern on either side. In between the chines, the modified-V hull is deep at the bow and flatter toward the stern.

It all works remarkably well. The 10 Meter's wide body, combined with the wide chines, provides a remarkably stable and dry ride. Steering response isn't especially quick, but the boat feels solid and secure when those wide chines lock in for a turn.



With its standard twin 350 Crusader gasoline engines, the 10 Meter has a decent turn of speed -- though the boat isn't as fast as it looks to some people. The top speed is in the mid-30 mph range, and cruising speed is around 25 to 28 mph.



At cruising speed, the pair of Crusaders will burn about 20 gallons an hour combined. Diesels were an option, though never a popular one.



The original 10 Meter Express was eventually joined by a more conventional-looking 10 Meter flying bridge sedan (in 1982) and a 10 Meter midcabin design (in 1985). The latter model looks almost identical to the Express on the outside, but has a small sleeping area for two tucked under the helm.



The 10 Meter was not only a success in creating a whole new genre of cruiser in America, but it was a sales success for its builder. Between 1981 and 1989, Trojan sold more than 600 of these boats.



But alas, the company's fortunes were not all so sweet. After nearly 40 years of boat building, venerable Trojan entered bankruptcy. In 1992, the company's remains were purchased by Carver Boat Corp.



But happily for the owners -- and prospective owners -- of Trojan's 10 Meter Express, these boats are not orphans. Carver has retained a parts supply organization in Lancaster that can provide virtually anything for the 10 Meters (or almost any Trojan built since the late 1960s, for that matter) -- from radar arches to grabrails.



By all accounts, the 10 Meter hulls were stoutly constructed. Some boats built during 1985 and 1986 were afflicted with hull blisters, but most of these were permanently repaired under warranty by Trojan -- at a cost of about $10,000 a job.



In your search for a 10 Meter Express, keep in mind those acres of exposed cockpit. Though the earliest editions were rather sparsely outfitted, later boats had all manner of upholstered seats, wet bars and the like, which can deteriorate rapidly in the sun.



Moreover, according to surveyor Bunker Hill of Maritime Consultants in Newport Beach, these Trojans' interior cabinetry and fittings weren't especially durable. So you may have to perform some cabin refurbishing as well.



A new 10 Meter Express carried a base price of $74,500 in 1981,

and the price tag rose to just over $100,000 by the end of its production run. Today, expect to pay between $45,000 and $95,000.
________________________________________
This article first appeared in the July 1994 issue of Sea Magazine. All or parts of the information contained in this article might be outdated.



1983 Trojan International 10 Meter
Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner

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Posted - Oct 06 2007 :  05:21:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
March 1996

Trojan: Used-Boat Survey

Trojans run the gamut from classic cruisers to International Euro-styled express boats, to the new Carver/Trojan ultramoderns; owners may not like other Trojans, but most are quite satisfied with their own boats.

As in 1992, owners gave the Classic 32, one
of the most popular boats of its size and class
ever built, high ratings for value and overall
satisfaction.
Trojan Yachts, yet another reputable builder with a new lease on life, nevertheless has something of a split personality. Among its customers there are the owners of the “classic” Trojan cruisers that spanned the 1970s and 1980s; there are the owners of Trojan’s International Series of stylized Euro-cruisers, introduced in 1986; and there are the owners of the “new” Trojans, built since 1993 under the aegis of Carver Boats.
Few Trojan owners can relate to model types outside of their own class—a phenomenon we’ve seen with other makes, including Mainship and Chris Craft—and the mixed results can be seen in our latest survey. While owners as a whole are perfectly happy with their own boats, rating them a solid B, and would gladly buy another (if possible), most have no desire to possess a Trojan from another series. This explains in part why only 72 percent of those who own older Trojans—one of the lowest scores we’ve seen in our used-boat surveys—said they would buy another Trojan. Even many of the “yes” votes contained a caveat summed up by the owner of a 1990 10.8 Meter express cruiser: “Yes. But not one of the current models.”
The good news is that there are many excellent values out there, especially for those seeking one of the F-series of classic 32- and 36-foot Trojans. As we learned in our last survey of Trojan boats in 1992, these older cruisers have held up well, both in physical condition and value.

The Company...

Trojan has been building boats for a long time, beginning as a manufacturer of plywood runabouts, in the 12-16-foot range, in 1949. After buying out a bankrupt builder from New York, Trojan set up shop in a dairy barn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, well-known for the woodworking abilities of its Amish and Mennonite residents. “They were very conscientious and did extremely fine work,” remembers Larry Warner, who worked at Trojan for 35 years.
Trojan expanded into the cruiser/motor yacht market in 1966 after buying out the Shepherd Boat Company in Ontario. A number of 32 and 36 footers were built in Canada before Trojan consolidated operations at Lancaster. By 1970, the company had switched from wood to fiberglass (at which time, many of the local craftsmen packed up their woodworking tools and departed, declining to work with plastic) and began building some of its classic models, including the F-32 and F-36 cruisers.
The company (along with Bertram Yachts) was bought by the Whittaker Corporation of California in the late 1970s and began down a familiar path of corporate swaps that led to downsizing, lack of retooling, and, eventually, stagnation. In the interim, however, the builder was one of the first to embrace the new Euro-look, turning out some innovative and not entirely unsuccessful models built on Harry Schoel’s Delta Conic hull. But the new look was adopted by others, most notably Sea Ray, who could crank out comparable models for much less than the cost of a Trojan. Nor did the traditional Trojan customer embrace the new International series, although Warner will say that “they’re a pretty good-looking boat.”
Trojan, like Bertram and many others, filed for bankruptcy and was rescued in 1993 when Carver, part of the Genmar group, picked up the assets and began building its own interpretation of the International line. The latest line began with a single model, the 370 (now the 390), added a 350 in 1994, and a 440 last year. (The new owner also destroyed the old Trojan hull molds, a source of dismay for many old customers.) “Carver reinvented the 37-foot Trojan, the old 11 Meter, but they could make it for 30 percent less than Trojan could,” says Larry Russo of Russo Marine in Medford, Massachussets, who took on the line in 1992. As a result, he said, Carver/Trojan has “tapped into a whole new market” and is doing very well with its sleek Express Yachts. Still, Russo concedes that “There are a lot of (classic) Trojan boats on the water that have stood the test of time.”

The Survey Shows...

Not surprisingly most of those who responded to our survey—90 percent— were owners of older Trojans. Of these, 37 percent owned one of the Classic 32s, one of the most popular boats of its size and type ever built; 24 percent owned a version of the Classic 36, and 24 percent owned one of the newer Internationals—10, 10.8, 11, or 12 Meters.
Each of these groups has its own prejudices, with 32 owners feeling the 36 was not a very successful upsizing of the smaller sedan/flying bridge model, but both uniting in their disdain for the Euro-style express boats, whether built by the original or the Carver-owned Trojan companies. (“Carver” is something of a misnomer; while the 350 and 390 are built at the Carver plant in Wisconsin, the 440 is being made at the Hatteras facility in North Carolina.)
Owners of the International series, produced from 1986 through 1992, have little regard for the stodgy “traditional” Trojans and tend to reject the latest express cruisers, primarily because Carver has jettisoned the Delta Conic hull, famous for its soft ride. New Trojan owners, on the other hand, represent a whole new market, as Russo observed, who have made their comparisons not with previous Trojans, but with makes such as Tiara, Sea Ray, and Formula.
Among the groups, Classic 32 owners showed the highest overall satisfaction rating, 87.5, compared to 82.5 percent for 36 owners and 80 percent for 10 Meter owners. And more than 92 percent of 32 owners felt their boats were holding their value well—the only A rating in this category. These results vary somewhat from four years ago, when Classic 36 owners posted the highest rating for overall satisfaction, followed by the 32 and 10 Meter boats.
Trojan owners collectively listed an approval rating of 82.5 percent, on a par with Bayliner owners (PBR, July 1995), but several percentage points lower than Chris-Craft (another company with a fragmented customer base), and well below Carver owners, for example, in our most recent survey. As a group, however, Trojan owners gave a respectable B rating for the value of their boats, higher than Sea Ray or Mainship owners and second only to Carver.
As they did in 1992, Classic 32 owners gave their boats A ratings for interior layout—one of the boat’s undeniable strong points—and low-speed, or docking, handling. Low-speed handling, in fact, got high ratings all around. Owners of the 32 gave their lowest approval rating—77 percent—for layout of the helm; only 10 Meter owners, at 75 percent, rated their helms lower. Classic 36 owners, by comparison, gave interior layout a B- (Trojan gave the 36 two extra feet of cockpit and expanded the saloon, but stole space from an already cramped galley). The bigger boat—no surprise here—also received higher marks, solid Bs, for sleeping accommodations and cockpit/deck layout.

The 10 Meter, typical of the express cruisers, posted the highest grade, a perfect 100, for performance (credit the Delta Conic hull, once again), but just a C for its helm station and a C- for its cramped (and oddball) berthing arrangements.
As in most other survey’s we’ve done, owners of newer boats were generally more satisfied, especially in the fit & finish and performance categories. Naturally enough, boats built between 1986 and 1992—a mixture of old-style and express cruisers—got the best marks for value. Many of these marks are, of course, subjective, and in certain areas, specifically resale value, perception doesn’t necessarily mesh with reality.
Owners Tell Us...
Owners of Classic 32 and 36 models have, in many cases, long years of experience with their boats and thus few illusions. They also operate from the perspective of being able to compare their boats to newer boats. As a result, outdated helms, galleys, and heads tend to be downgraded when compared to their better-equipped and more ergonomic counterparts on contemporary boats.
Trojan made few major changes to the 32 Flybridge Sedan over its lifespan (1973-1992), during which some 2,700 models were sold, making it a best-seller by any standard. One was to make the lower, secondary steering station optional (everyone steers from the flying bridge, anyway) and a second was to replace the earlier V-berth with a center island berth.
Obviously, the boat, as originally designed, appealed to a broad range of buyers. One of its appeals is its clean and simple lines. “The boat is very attractive—everybody comments on it,” wrote the owner of a 1987 boat based on Florida’s west coast. Although the cockpit is fairly short—about six feet—for this size boat, most owners seem willing to make the tradeoff for extra room in saloon, which is open and airy, with lots of headroom. “This boat has a better interior layout than any other 32-foot ‘modern-style’ boat I have seen,” said another Florida owner, who bought his 1988 model used in 1991.
Built of standard, but solid, chopped strand and 24-ounce woven roving, the Classic hulls have aged well. In fact, the survey was devoid of complaints about structural defects, except for minor fit and finish problems. “It’s a good solid boat for the money,” said the owner of the 1987 boat in Florida. “I haven’t spent anything except for engine work, generator work, canvas, and bottom paint.”
The most common complaint about the 32 was its handling at speed, especially in any kind of sea. “I bought this boat new and it would broach when running with a following sea,” said the owner of a 1988 model. He corrected the broaching problem by installing larger rudders, but then found his hydraulics were inadequate to operate the rudders. This owner was one of just a few 32 owners who said he wouldn’t buy another Trojan. Another reader said the modified-V hull (9 degrees deadrise aft) “pounds terribly in a short chop, but goes straight without having to hold on to the steering wheel.” Yet another owner complained about inadequate fuel capacity (120 gallons) on his 1980 model; later versions carried 220 gallons in dual tanks (and some buyers added saddle tanks).

The newer International cruisers, as noted, posted a perfect score for high-speed handling and a strong A for docking maneuverability. “Stability is outstanding and docking is made easier by the width of the walkaround,” said the Maryland owner of a 1987 10 Meter. The same owner, however, complained about difficult access to the twin 454 engines, a common lament by owners of the 36 as well. Satisfaction with performance was almost universal throughout the express cruisers. “The ride of the Delta Conic hull is amazing. It will take far more pounding than we can,” commented David Cohen of Maryland, who owns a 1990 8.6 Meter. Still Cohen feels his outdrive trim is “ridiculously sensitive” and repeated the familiar complaint about difficult engine access.


Smallest of the Trojan Internationals, the
29-foot 8.6 Meter is a bit dated in looks, but
runs well on its Delta Conic hull.
The Classic 36 was produced in several configurations, including the Tri Cabin introduced in 1970 and the popular 36 Convertible, which arrived two years later; both were available with alternative interior layouts. Although the 36s, as a group, received just a C rating for fit and finish (with some justification), the hulls appear to be as solid as other Trojan boats, with no reports of major problems or gelcoat blistering (although we saw some signs of minor gelcoat crazing and worn nonskid). Writes one owner, of a 1982 Tri Cabin in Washington State, “I have hull plugs from a 34-foot Tollycraft; the Trojan plugs are thicker.” Kim Pollack, who cruises a 1987 model on Chesapeake Bay, said the “gelcoat (when waxed) still looks new, the stainless is in great shape, (and) the engines (with almost 600 hours on them) don’t burn or leak any oil. We can efficiently cruise at 9 knots on about 6 gallons/hour.”
While the 36s got a higher (B) rating for cruising than the 32s, there were complaints here as well. One owner said his 1974 model handled well at lower speeds, but at about 17 knots tended to nod from side-to-side, requiring lots of steering. Several owners also felt the 36, with twin 350s, was underpowered.
Jim Korney, who charters his 1972-vintage 36 Convertible out of Newport, Rhode Island, is one of many owners of older versions who has faced the repowering issue. Korney chose to replace the existing 350 Mercs with 454 Chevy blocks, partly because of initial cost savings, but has had second thoughts about not going with diesel-power for more fuel economy (and range). He has made some alterations to the boat, notably replacing the aft deck (adding a higher crown for better drainage), but otherwise praises the boat for its handling, deck layout, and enclosed saloon, which provides refuge for his charter fishing parties. “The boat’s well designed for what I use it for,” he said.
Larry Warner, who now helps run Marine-Tech in Lancaster, which supplies replacement parts for older Trojans (see Contacts), said many customers choose diesel power when the gas engines give out. He recommends one of the smaller Cummins diesels or, for larger boats, the Caterpillar 3116.

Our Inspection Showed...

While most of the Trojans we saw in the water were of the classic variety, we did get a close look at some of the International models as well as the 350 and 370/390 newcomers from the new Trojan. Euro-styling or not, some of the International models, such as the 8.6 Meter sport a truncated look, with lots of bow but not much in the way of stern. The resulting aft “cabin” is too small for adults, but overnighters have the compensation of a pedestal Queen-size berth at the bow.
On the 11 Meter Express, the hull styling (and size: the beam is 14 feet) create an open feeling below, despite a lack of natural lighting; but again the master stateroom, aft of the head, is cramped and contorted in dimension. But it’s either that or stretch out in the open dinette/lounge area, where a Rube Goldberg arrangement converts part of the sofa into a bunk. We didn’t see any evidence of it, but several Express owners reported small, annoying leaks window leaks.
At 38 feet, with a beam of 12 feet, the 350 can be considered the successor to the old 11 Meter. So why does it feel so small for its size on deck? Well, from the length, you can subtract the 30 inches of swim platform as well as the bow pulpit. From the width, there are 10-inch sidedecks in the cockpit, plus furniture and other obstructions. We measured six feet by three feet of walkable sole in the aft cockpit.
We were unable to get any design or construction details from Trojan, despite several calls to the Wisconsin plant. A brochure said the line, from hull to interiors, apparently, was the work of Fulvio DeSimoni Yacht Design of Milan. What we gathered from a look at one of their owner manuals was that the hull, like older models, is a fairly standard laminate consisting of chopped strand and woven roving, with a vinylester resin barrier below the water line for osmotic blistering protection. The hull-deck joint is the tried-and-true shoebox lid arrangment, fastened with Sikaflex and stainless steel screws, backed with plywood. Balsa wood, plywood, aluminum, and synthetic materials are used for coring in appropriate places “for stiffness and insulation,” according to the manual. Trojan provides a five-year hull warranty, including two years of blistering coverage.
Glasswork on the 1995 model we looked at appeared solid, above and below; fit and finish were okay, but not perfect (we found loose fibers inside a storage bin on deck, and a crude sealing job in a crack behind some cushions). Down below, the door to the portside head was sticking; the most noticeable lapses in finish involved installation of wood trim, where screw holes inside cabinets were left rough, and not all joints fit snugly. The woodwork wasn’t bad—but certainly not up to Lancaster craftsmen standards. After a season on the water, the smaller fittings had held up well; the only sign of rusting we saw was at the exhausts.
The main saloon of the 350 is fairly spacious, with about 6' 4" of headroom. Head, with shower stall, and galley are to port; the saloon settee is along the starboard side, beneath storage cabinets and a large AC and DC panel arrangment, which is behind a framed glass lift-up door—a neat arrangment that permits viewing without raising the lid.


The 33-foot 10 Meter International Express,
like its larger cousin, the 39-foot 11 Meter,
offers some good bargains for those who like
Euro-styled cruisers.
Instead of attemping to squeeze in an aft cabin, the 350 uses the step-down space under the helm area for another table and U-shaped settee. Separated as it is and with just over three feet of sitting headroom, this is a place you can send “bad” guests to take their cocktails. Although the boat is rated to sleep six, we’ll do our sleeping in the V-berth, thank you. There’s a respectable 35-40 inches of sitting headroom above the pedestal, or island, berth, which measures 75 inches by 56 inches at its longest and widest points. A Bomar hatch above lets in plenty of light and provides another exit; we found evidence of leaks/condensation along the interior, however. We’d fix that fast, and we’d definitely do something about the four mirror panels gracing the forward bulkhead. All in all, a fairly open space that may owe something to the somewhat bulging lines of the European hull style.
The 390 we climbed around was boat-show bright. Instead of the odd pedestal-type companionway steps on the 350, the 390 has a carpeted spiral stairway that provides one of the more elegant entrances to a boat we’ve seen. And while one International owner dismissed the new, Fulvio-inspired interiors as both “flashy” and “sterile,” we kind of liked the 390’s, which is done in off-white with maple trim. The 390 (LOA: 39' 4"; beam: 13' 6") seemed spacious, with a roomy settee to port and an efficient L-shaped galley opposite. There’s sufficient storage below and above the galley, but the slight edge of counter trim is more decoration than an actual fiddle.
The 390 (which was drawing a crowd) sports a somewhat more spacious lounge area in the after part of the cabin, and contains a proportionately larger stateroom in the bows. The cabin has its own entrance—always a welcome feature—to the comfortably-sized head to starboard, where a curved sliding door converts the head into a shower stall. There’s a lip to keep the water from draining into saloon or cabin, but expect some mopping up within the head. Of course, it’s hard to tell at a boat show how well everything will hold up; one owner of a 1993 370/390, while basically pleased with his boat (except for the head), reported failures of “three dozen little things”—cabinet hardware falling off, inoperable switches, nonworking spotlight and nav light, etc.
Both boats, like the new 440, have vinyl liners everywhere, including the inside backs of cabinets, which makes for easy cleaning and should cut down on the mildewing problems experienced by owners of older Trojans, both traditional and the European expresses, which had fabric covering and required much ventilating in the absence of a dehumidifier. We didn’t inspect a 440, but talked to an owner (who had broken ranks and moved up from an International), who says he is very happy with his new boat. Unlike its smaller cousins, the 440 has sufficient space for a full aft cabin, giving it two private staterooms. “It’s really the boat to buy, because it’s easy to live on,” said the new owner. “It’s really set up for living for a couple of weeks at a time, not a couple of days.” This owner also takes exception to the “glitzy” label: “It’s not slick, it’s sumptuous.”
The Used-Boat Market Tells Us...
Trojan owners feel strongly that their boats have held their value well. And in some cases they are accurate. Classic 32 owners felt the strongest, with 92 percent experessing confidence in the continuing value of their boats. According to the used-boat price guides, they are right, with a 1989 model, for example, declining just 29 percent in resale value (see Market Scan, pages 6-7). A 32-foot Bayliner motoryacht, by contrast, shows a loss of 43 percent of original value in just four years; a 1988 34-foot Mainship III also depreciated by 43 percent over the first six years; only Carver, which traditionally holds its value well, was close, with its 1988 Aft Cabin 2307 depreciating 31 percent in six years. The F-36 also has retained its value, according to the price guides, matching the 32 with just 29 percent depreciation for a 1989 model.

The pricing situation gets more complicated with the International express cruisers, some of which, in the last days of the old Trojan company, were selling for less than wholesale. Used-boat bargains were even greater, well below suggested prices in the used-boat guides. Daniel Coluccio of New Jersey said he paid less than $65,000 for a 1987 10 Meter Flybridge in 1993. “After some research,” he wrote, “I discovered that this boat had listed for about $150,000 in 1987!” The problem, as former Trojan dealers have said before, was not the quality of the boat, but the overpricing necessitated by Trojan’s production and financial troubles.
Bargains like this should result in severe depreciation of boats such as the 10 Meter but, in fact, the price guides are showing an average loss of 34 percent for the 1989 10 Meter. But then, the the ABOS Blue Book also shows, for the model with twin gas engines, a new-boat price of $119,900. But we talked with owners, who paid $125,000 and more for their 1989s. Prices for 10 Meters in a recent Soundings issue varied from $60,000 to about $80,000 for a 1987 model. Silvertons and Sea Rays could be considered competition for Trojan in these models. Although it’s difficult to find head-to-head comparisons, the 1989 Silverton 37 Convertible, according to ABOS and N.A.D.A., shows an average depreciation of 40 percent, the 1990 Sea Ray 350 a drop of 30 percent.

Faltering production left a few orphan Trojan models, almost one-offs and with little (we’d guess) popular appeal. The 8.6 Meter, the smallest of the International expresses, was built from 1988-1990, but not in any great numbers. At 29 feet, with its squared-off transom, it lacks both looks and interior space. As one (not entirely dissatisfied) owner said, “I should have realized that while I was buying a 1990 look, I was also buying early 1980s engineering and design.” According to the price guides, The 8.6 has fared the worst among Trojans in the used market, with the 1989 version losing an average of 43 percent of its value in six years.
Conclusions/Recommendations
Mild confusion reigning in the Trojan field can work to the buyer’s advantage—if Trojan offers what you seek. Although there are fewer bargains among the classic 32 and 36 cruisers, there’s also more to value than price. It’s an even better deal if the previous owner(s) have repowered and upgraded equipment, as many have. Geoffrey Duncan of Safety Harbor, Florida has owned three classic 32s over the last 18 years. “I would consider pre-owned 32s and 36s on the market today, in good or above average condition, to be an extraordinary value for someone wanting a good buy in a used boat,” Duncan said.
If you like the styling, there are good values to be found among the International boats as well, especially the larger 11 and 12 Meters. While we haven’t encountered any tales of major structural problems among any of the Trojans, complaints about fit and finish and failures of small pieces of gear would prompt us to give these boats a careful inspection. And while you might be able to buy cheap, don't look for a great return at resale time.
Nor should you worry, as readers did during our ’92 survey, about being left without manufacturer support, with Larry Warner and John Leed, another Trojan veteran, supplying parts, including smaller moldings, for the early models. Marine-Tech drew praise from half a dozen readers for its friendly and competent service.
Trojan’s earlier woes, and uncertainty about the future under Carver, can also help the new-boat buyer. Chuck Willett of Boston, Massachusetts went to a boat show last year intending to buy a Sea Ray. When the dealer wouldn’t deal, Willett ended up with a Trojan 350 at a price he could afford and has no regrets. Although time (and a lack of data from Trojan) make it difficult to assess the performance or integrity of the newer models, the lamination work seems adequate, if not high-tech, there’s a reasonable warranty, and the styling—if you like it—is the sort of subdued European we could live with.
Contacts— Trojan Yachts, Box 1010, Pulaski, WI 54162; 414/822-3214. Marine-Tech, 2821 Old Tree Dr., Lancaster, PA 17603; 717-397-2471.





1983 Trojan International 10 Meter
Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner

Homeport: FL Go to Top of Page

RWS

RO# 25075



Posted - Oct 06 2007 :  06:16:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Compared to many other 80's designs the International Series remains contemporary.

Friends who have been out on my 10 meter have compared her ride to that of a 40' vessel. Her 13' beam makes for an extraordinary amount of usable space.

You're getting a high quality design, engineering and build for a reasonable price.

The most expensive part of boating is depreciation, a cost you'lll not likely experience.

Here's some additional information.







1983 Trojan International 10 Meter
Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner

Edited by - RWS on Oct 06 2007 06:35:00

Homeport: FL Go to Top of Page

rawley2

RO# 28686

Posted - Oct 06 2007 :  08:17:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm looking at boats in your same size range. Our list look almost identical except your missing the 35' Formula.

Here is a link to one in your year range and area. http://www.tiny.cc/pPEfG


Bob and Kim,
Tampa Bay Area.
Looking for a boat. Don't worry we will have one soon!

Edited by - rawley2 on Oct 06 2007 08:18:16

Homeport: Florida Go to Top of Page

glenncal1

RO# 23116

Posted - Oct 06 2007 :  12:19:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Scott-seems like a nice deal on that boat if it surveys well. You can probably get it for $25k or less. Trojans are well made boats. One of the charter captains who docks across from me has a 1972 32' SF Trojan and runs the heck out of it with very little problems over the years. The 31' Trojan I had was a woodie and a very solid boat. If I could have a larger boat I would look at the 10 meter very seriously. I lookedfor an 8.6 but didn't find a good one when I was buying.

Jim
Sonic 33 SE

Homeport: Centennial, CO Go to Top of Page

RWS

RO# 25075



Posted - Oct 06 2007 :  13:05:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Scott:

I can more than likely tell you anything you need to know regarding the 10 Meter International.

If there's something I can't help you with, then I can point you in the direction of someone who can.

RWS


1983 Trojan International 10 Meter
Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner

Homeport: FL Go to Top of Page

Hyperfishing

RO# 3223

Posted - Oct 06 2007 :  13:42:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My hands down favorite Trojan is the 10.8 meter sedan/convertible. Fantastic boat, and it only draws 2.5 feet!

In waters where a 58 Hatteras just will not fit, the Trojan 10.8 and Jersey 36 are my two favorite SF/cruisers.

Even David Pascoe likes the 10.8!!!!


Chris

Edited by - Hyperfishing on Oct 06 2007 14:43:28

Homeport: Sand Bar, Great South Bay Go to Top of Page

gardnersf

RO# 13607



Posted - Oct 07 2007 :  21:45:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for all the information. RWS, I may have some questions as I explore further. I also saw a lot of your postings on the Trojan Forum.

I may take a second look at the Formula 35 as well. I'll have to see if there are any in our area. One thing I like about the 10 meter, though is a I get a big boat with a smaller length . With everythig evaluated by the foot, it's a minor consideration, but does save a little $$


Scott Gardner
Smithfield, RI
1986 Trojan 10 meter Mid-Cabin Express "More Family Time"
Twin Crusader 454 Straight Inboards
1963 17' Boston Whaler - 90HP Evinrude

Homeport: Barrington, RI Go to Top of Page

RWS

RO# 25075



Posted - Oct 07 2007 :  22:15:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Before doing the repower, I thought about moving up from the 10 meter. I'd actually have to move up to a 40' in another vessel as a 36 - 38' Brand X has the equivalent space that I have on the 10 Meter.

I have a friend with an 11 Meter, Really nice vessel.

In the age you are looking at, condition and care by the previous owner are important, as is a good survey. The 11, 12, 13 & 14 meter Internationals all had a balsa core bottom. The ten has a solid fiberglass bottom.

There are 4 longitidunal stringers which are hollow. These are made intregal into the hull and liner, another innovation way before it's time as well as the arch and curved windshield.

There are three bulkheads on this vessel which help make her so tough.

I bought mine from the original owner. He lived in Miami and ran her over to the Islands several times a year. He had her for 18 years. That says something about this boat.

Good luck with your search. If you find one in good condition you can't go wrong with a Ten Meter International. Check out the Pascoe website as well.

RWS


1983 Trojan International 10 Meter
Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner

Edited by - RWS on Oct 08 2007 06:41:08

Homeport: FL Go to Top of Page

Bruce Herrington

RO# 2612



Posted - Oct 07 2007 :  22:43:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If I'm not mistaken the 11, 12, and 13 Meter had balsa-cored hulls, except around thru-hull fittings, at those locations solid fiberglass was used.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Benjamin Franklin

Homeport: Cape Coral, FL Go to Top of Page

engdockter

RO# 24665

Posted - Oct 08 2007 :  10:21:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the 10 meter gives a lot of bang for your buck,get a survay and you cant go wrong.


You can achieve what you believe! 1986 10 meter trojan sedan bridge

Homeport: Saint Charles, MO Go to Top of Page

gardnersf

RO# 13607



Posted - Oct 08 2007 :  10:55:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hmm, for you 10 meter owners out there.

I am getting an insurance quote and this boat seesm to be in a bit of a donut hole. At least as far as USAA goes.

For older boast (15 years plus)they insure up to $20,000 from one company and $50,000 and up on another. As nice as the boat is, I don't know if it would survey at $50,000, but I could be wrong.

I am getting an additional quote from BoatUS, but my concern is getting enough insurance to cover the value of the boat, and any liens I may need.

Does anyone have examples of their insurance values? RWS, with Diesels, I'm sure you are well above $50K


Scott Gardner
Smithfield, RI
1986 Trojan 10 meter Mid-Cabin Express "More Family Time"
Twin Crusader 454 Straight Inboards
1963 17' Boston Whaler - 90HP Evinrude

Homeport: Barrington, RI Go to Top of Page

engdockter

RO# 24665

Posted - Oct 08 2007 :  11:57:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Try american family, $60,000- very reasonable, It beat Boatus.


You can achieve what you believe! 1986 10 meter trojan sedan bridge

Homeport: Saint Charles, MO Go to Top of Page

gardnersf

RO# 13607



Posted - Oct 08 2007 :  23:18:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, I submitted an offer tonight, we'll see how it goes. I'll keep you posted.

Scott Gardner
Smithfield, RI
1986 Trojan 10 meter Mid-Cabin Express "More Family Time"
Twin Crusader 454 Straight Inboards
1963 17' Boston Whaler - 90HP Evinrude

Homeport: Barrington, RI Go to Top of Page

RWS

RO# 25075



Posted - Oct 09 2007 :  07:01:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In 2001 I insured her $40,000 which was far more than I paid and more than I had in her alltogether.

I did a 3 part survey with the repower. First a haulout with a survey that did not include the engines to confirm the integrity of the hull, stringers and everything else and to make sure she was worthy of the repower.

The surveyor returned with the engines out just to inspect the stringers a bit closer and better.

Finally an on the water survey after trhe engines were installed to complete the process. She surveyed at a far gteater value than the insured value, however I was able to increase the insured value to $80,000 no problem.

I have always been insured with Boat US.

When I bought her in 1981 she had been on the market for ten months and I was the first offer. I came in low and the owner felt insulted, however the broker was really good and although it took nearly a month the broker was able to put the deal together.

The Broker makes it less personal for the seller and easier for the buyer. It takes the "personalities" and emotions out of the deal.

Good luck with your offer.

RWS


1983 Trojan International 10 Meter
Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner

Homeport: FL Go to Top of Page

RWS

RO# 25075



Posted - Oct 09 2007 :  07:05:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Scott,

I hope your offer is pending a survey.


1983 Trojan International 10 Meter
Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner

Homeport: FL Go to Top of Page

sliverbay

RO# 15888

Posted - Oct 09 2007 :  08:38:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Scott,

I know I may be a bit late, but I have a 1989 10 meter mid-cabin in very good shape that is for sale. If you offer falls through, or if you just want to see some pics send me a PM.

Don



Homeport: Toms River, NJ Go to Top of Page

gardnersf

RO# 13607



Posted - Oct 09 2007 :  21:54:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
RWS, the offer is pending a Survey including a sea trial. Thanks for all the info, I did get a confirmed quote from Boat US insurance, so I wil be fine if the deal goes through. I may shop around but have heard BoatUS is good to deal with. I have USAA now which I love, but yacht insurance is not their strong suit.

Scott Gardner
Smithfield, RI
1986 Trojan 10 meter Mid-Cabin Express "More Family Time"
Twin Crusader 454 Straight Inboards
1963 17' Boston Whaler - 90HP Evinrude

Homeport: Barrington, RI Go to Top of Page

seabug

RO# 18861

Posted - Oct 09 2007 :  22:10:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've just passed up a 36 Trojan MY; It was acceptable in most every way until I walked the gunwales and bow areas. It felt a little "spongy" beneath my feet. It came to Memphis from Fla. Was it dunked???? The price c. $50K. Oh well there will be others.


Homeport: Ms. Go to Top of Page

RWS

RO# 25075



Posted - Oct 10 2007 :  06:31:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My Trojan International was anchored in the middle of our canal as ther eye of Hurricane Charley, a strong Cat 4 Storm passed overhead. Although she ripped out 2 concrete pilings and pulled down a wooden one, the only damage to her other than some gelcoat nicks was the Radar Arch, which was severly damaged and had to be removed. (we replaced the rotted wood in the arch with welded aluminum tubes and plates.

Boat US Insurance came out and I had a check in just a few days.

Four boats were sunk on our canal and Boat US Insurance proved to be invaluable compared to the stories of some other folks.

Use your survey as a negotiating tool if anything other than minor surprises come up.

I believe you'll like the sound of those side exhausts from the helm and will soon get the feel of synchronizing the engines to the sound. You'll also appreciate how easy she is to dock with the engines spaced so wide apart.

These 1981-1994 Internationals have been out of the limelight for over a decade now and represent a tremendous value in today's market for those who can deal with the issues inherent with an older vessel.

Good Luck,

RWS


1983 Trojan International 10 Meter
Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner

Homeport: FL Go to Top of Page

gardnersf

RO# 13607



Posted - Oct 10 2007 :  12:28:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
RWS,

Thanks for all your help on this. I spent a good 90 minutes crawling over the boat, looking at construction details, tracing piping systems, etc. All in all the boat is in very good shape. I was impressed with the build quality. It is better than my current boat and I consider mine above average for the era. Teh galsswork is very good, and everywhere I could see, I saw evidence of through bolting. The rub rail alone was impressive. It must be backed with 1.5 inches of rubber. It is meant to be used. Another minor deatil of quality were the portholes. The frame was stanless steel, not plastic, the closures were threaded SS fittings and I believe there were 6 more screws holding it together than on my portholes.

The big wild card is mechanical operation. The engines, fuel tanks, generator, etc. looked good. No evidence of unaddressed leakage and the engine mounts were not rust buckets like some I saw. Still, you never know until you fire it up. With 730 hours on the engines and 380 on the gen set, I at least know the boat was used. However. It has been on land for a year. Some of the cokpit uphoilstery needs attention, but mostly the bolsters. It's actualy in better shape than I expected. The color is a marbled gray which looked like mildew on the pictures, but is the intended color and is in good shape.

Funny you mention the engine spacing. I looked at the same age 34 Sea Ray and I always thought the engines were too close . It makes access painful. Teh reason Sea Ray did that was to have the fuel tanks outboard. I think with the extar 12" beam and a slightly shorter cabin allowed Trojan to bettr place the fuel tanks.

One question I did have was the location of the potable water tank and pump. I ran out of time while tracing pipes, finding all the head\waste stuff. Is it behind the access panel on the port side locker for the mid cabin. It has to be near the stairs based on the fill location.


Scott Gardner
Smithfield, RI
1986 Trojan 10 meter Mid-Cabin Express "More Family Time"
Twin Crusader 454 Straight Inboards
1963 17' Boston Whaler - 90HP Evinrude

Homeport: Barrington, RI Go to Top of Page

ChezBippy

RO# 22834

Posted - Oct 10 2007 :  18:03:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
RWS,


Is your 10 meter an express(no mid cabin)?

Could you share what your cruise and GPH numbers were prior to repower?

Thanks,
gary


Gary

Homeport: Saint James, NY Go to Top of Page

RWS

RO# 25075



Posted - Oct 11 2007 :  06:31:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ChexBippy, My express cruiser does not have the aft cabin. Aft cabin models had the engines placed farther aft and due to the different shaft angle and shorter shafts they used only one strut per side, a higher ratio transmission and smaller props running at a higher RPM.

That said, here's the data on my 1983 express cruiser before the repower.

.84 NMPG (not Statute) was the best I could do while fully loaded with fuel and water on plane in reasonably smooth conditions. That translates to .96 statute miles per gallon. Not too bad, especially when you consider the 13' beam. This data was veirified with a digital tach/synchroniser, a Flowscan and GPS.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc114/rws1983/RWS_Gas_Engine_Efficiency.jpg

http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/cc114/rws1983/?action=view¤t=RWS_Gas_Engine_Efficiency.jpg


let's see if that link works.


1983 Trojan International 10 Meter
Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner

Edited by - RWS on Oct 11 2007 07:54:13

Homeport: FL Go to Top of Page

RWS

RO# 25075



Posted - Oct 11 2007 :  06:59:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Scott,

Build quality, engineering and design are the big plusses with this boat. All Trojans enjoy a good reputation as solid boats. The factory location in Lancaster, PA resulted in the majority of the employees being Pennsylvania Dutch. The craftsmanship is obvious.

While the Trojan Internationals don't have the stature of a Bert or a Hatt, they are lightyears above your average mass produced, popular vessels of that vintage or even the new ones being produced today.

You can still get parts that are specific to the brand, there are two dealers in Lancaster PA that were once part of the Trojan company and they have specific hardware items that will fit. Other items are available at Boatfix and other chandlery suppliers. Engine and drivetrain items are the same. My vessel had over 2,600 hours on her engines when I bought her and I put several hundred on top of that before retiring them (one had been rebuilt sometime in her past) The boat was certainly worthy of a repower and now she's fantastic.

On the express cruiser the fresh water tank and the waste tank are moulded into the hull. The freshwater tank is forward, between the stringers and is 40 gallons. Just aft of that is an open area with a bilge pump and then just behind the next main bulkhead is the 40 gallon waste tank, again moulded in between the stringers. This one has a removable lid that also functions as the engine room floor and runs from the bulkhead to the end of the battery box. I removed and resealed mine durnig the engine refitting.

A very important safety item was missed on my survey which thankfully I accidentally found three years later and corrected. The 12v side of the electrical panel has two main breakers which control numerous toggle switches for the left and right corresponding sides of the 12v side of systems. What was missed is that EACH ONE OF THESE LITTLE TOGGLE SWITCHES IS ACTUALLY A BREAKER. (Another unique and clever design) Over the years many of these toggle type breakers made by AIRPAX were replaced with plain, unprotected toggle switches by someone who did not realize that they were actually breakers. While the two main 12v breakers were still in place a component could have easily burned up (I relaced the macerator twice) or worse, a wire could have become shorted out, got hot and caused a more serious loss.

These AIRPAX breakers are rated for different amperages for the various systems. When one trips the paddle switch goes to the middle, much like a regular household breaker. You can tell if you have AIRPAX breakers by looking at the tip of the toggle switch. As compared to others, it should be shorter and have a wide end.

Another safety feature is the horn system was wired into a series of additional bilge pump switches to sound off when the bilge water became higher than normal.

Your vessel also has windshield washers and lights above the electrical panel so you can see your breakers in the dark as there is a switch behind the door.

The Internationals were truly ahead of thier time and stand up well against today's new offerings.

Good luck with your survey.

RWS


1983 Trojan International 10 Meter
Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner

Homeport: FL Go to Top of Page
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