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Author Previous Topic: A/C Removal help Topic Next Topic: Giant Batteries:  

Tanqueray

RO# 17091

Posted - Apr 16 2008 :  20:21:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Started getting the Boat ready today.I noticed that the Cabin Floor was ALOT wetter than it has been in previous years. I don't shrink wrap and it sits through the Winter outside every year with just the cockpit cover on. It hasn't been a problem yet so I was a bit surprised to feel the "squish" when I walked below. It also got me to thinking that I'm a pretty good procrastinator when it comes to getting things done and for the past few years now I've been fortunate enough to escape castraphe (or at least the possibility of one) by having only one Bilge Pump in the aft section engine compartment. Yes I know it's stupid and yes I know I should have added another one years ago but the fact remains that I didn't. Now I got to thinking about mid cabin or forward bilge pumps. Seems to me that most boats I've seen in the past have always had one forward of the engine compartment. Even my previous Sea-Ray weekender had one mounted beneath the steps going below. I've had the side up next to the steps on this one already in the past and there isn't one there on this boat. Now I'm wondering if there's maybe one below the cabin floor that maybe isn't functioning.??..The next question is...Where is it....and how do ya get to it?
Does anyone else have one of this Model Boat that knows anything about this?
1988 Cruisers Inc. 2750 Rogue Sport
KALENA II

Homeport: New York

Tiki Time

RO# 28380

Posted - Apr 17 2008 :  14:26:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have the next size up from you, the 88 2970 Esprit. My forward bilge pump is under the floor in the cabin. My aft is near the stern. Where is the squish? I have a Squish! I'm still trying to find the source. It isnt the air conditioner or bilge pumps. I still have to check the head sink,and head. I'm puzzled by my Sguish! Its just enough to get the carpet wet near the aft cabin.


Phil

Homeport: West Coast , FL Go to Top of Page

Tanqueray

RO# 17091

Posted - Apr 17 2008 :  19:17:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The "squish" I was referring to was the sound you get when stepping on Water Saturated Carpeting.
I thought maybe there'd be another Bilge Pump under the Cabin Floor also but in looking at it today it just doesn't seem very likely.
#1. There's no switch on any panel anywhere to indicate the on/off position of any pump other than the Engine Bilge Pump.
#2. The entire floor of the Cabin is one piece and would be a major operation to get at I'll bet. looked at it today and it looks like the better part of a day just to get the floor up.


Really got me wondering now though. I'll probably just end up biting the bullet and removing the floor just to have a look-see anyways now though.
I just can't believe that they built a Cruiser this size and DIDN't make accomodations for another pump.
Any more ideas?


KALENA II

Homeport: New York Go to Top of Page

Tiki Time

RO# 28380

Posted - Apr 18 2008 :  09:10:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If there is no hatch in the floor, maybe its under the step near the hatch. My air conditioner is under the steps and I have valves, sea strainer for the air, bilge pump and water pump etc. under the floor. Sorry I can't be more help. but Now I'm curious myself! Good Luck!


Phil

Homeport: West Coast , FL Go to Top of Page

Tiki Time

RO# 28380

Posted - May 08 2008 :  15:09:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tanqueray, did ever find out what was causing the carpet to be wet in the cabin?


Phil

Homeport: West Coast , FL Go to Top of Page

celliott

RO# 27484

Posted - May 19 2008 :  18:46:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ever try to get the bilge pump out of a crownline 250cr? 3 hours of standing on my head trying to get the hose on led me to believe that the guys who design the fancy boats should maybe have to work on them first before going to the drawing board!!!!! I am still sore.


Homeport: Kansas Go to Top of Page

Tiki Time

RO# 28380

Posted - May 20 2008 :  14:50:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can relate! I remember talking to a Captain a while back, I was complementing, and admiring the nice aft cabin he had on his boat. He said "YEA, I HAVE PAID DEARLY FOR THAT AFT CABIN!" I have been doing alot of Aleeves myself! ]Originally posted by celliott

ever try to get the bilge pump out of a crownline 250cr? 3 hours of standing on my head trying to get the hose on led me to believe that the guys who design the fancy boats should maybe have to work on them first before going to the drawing board!!!!! I am still sore.
[/quote]



Phil

Homeport: West Coast , FL Go to Top of Page

Tanqueray

RO# 17091

Posted - May 30 2008 :  04:42:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry I somehow lost track of this thread.
Looks like the floor is getting wet due to the fresh water fill tube. It somehow managed to crack itself and when the tank is filling it's also partially running out of the split in the line and dropping into the forward bilge and exiting via a weep hole into the engine compartment. The weep hole however isn't large enough to let out enough water quickly enough to keep it from getting the carpeting wet. I looked at already and I can see that THAT is gonna be another all day project. Ya gotta take so much stuff apart.......aarrrrgggggg !!!!!
I've already checked in that obvious spot under the stairs for another bilge pump and there's nothing there.
Now that I think about it.......there can't be another one on the boat anywhere because there aren't any thru-hulls that I don't know about and I know what they all go to and none of them is a bilge pump.


KALENA II

Homeport: New York Go to Top of Page

RWS

RO# 25075



Posted - May 31 2008 :  08:26:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tanq,

Why not just add a second high GPM pump in the engine room?


Access to add a thru hull would be easy (relatively speaking) and you could mount the switch just a bit higher than the factory switch.

RWS


1983 Trojan International 10 Meter
Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner
Trojan International Website: http://trojanboat.com/

Homeport: FL Go to Top of Page

Tanqueray

RO# 17091

Posted - May 31 2008 :  13:54:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To tell you the truth I've thought about that but everytime I look in there I scratch my head trying to figure out where to put it and how to mount it. These engines are incredibly close to eachother and without having six foot long arms it's next to impossible to reach the bottom of the boat between the engines and there's not any more clearance behind them either. There's room to stand just in front of them but even that's a contortionists nightmare because of the hoses and thru-hulls for the Air Conditioning pickup....Macerator....Raw Water pump...and one other thru-hull that's disconnected that I never knew what it went to begin with. These are all placed strategically enough to allow a person to only tip-toe to very small areas to stand. (on the stringers...the ball of one foot between hoses etc.)
I can just barely get at the Pump that's there already which is mounted to the transom.
Also......What would you think about splicing into the existing exit hose for the existing pump if I were to add another pump? (Sheesh......I just GOTTA add another pump)
Would having two pumps hooked up to the same hose interfere with the operation of either?


KALENA II

Homeport: New York Go to Top of Page

RWS

RO# 25075



Posted - May 31 2008 :  22:12:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tanq,

There's a number of reaons that splicing the bilge hoses is a no no.

Just say NO!

Also, make sure you do a loop well above the waterline as a siphon break.

For safety's sake and peace of mind I hope you can find a way to locate it.

RWS


1983 Trojan International 10 Meter
Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner
Trojan International Website: http://trojanboat.com/

Homeport: FL Go to Top of Page

Tanqueray

RO# 17091

Posted - Jun 01 2008 :  12:59:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So I guess running two pumps and only one hose is a bad idea.
So I guess I'll just have to figure out a way to run a scond thru-hull somewhere. But I WILL do it.


KALENA II

Homeport: New York Go to Top of Page

Anton

RO# 25224

Posted - Jun 16 2008 :  10:59:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Tanqueray.

I too had to add an extra bilge pump in my engine bay. Had to drill a hole through the side hull and use some specialized tools to reach down between the engines. Also, I hear you about not having any pump in the forward cabin. I can't believe they don't give you access to the forward bilge anywhere... Did you pull up your carpeting on your stairs to see underneath? I can't figure out any way to see anything down there. My problem is that my A/C unit is underneath my cabin sofa and the condensation drains into the bilge, To make things worse, I believe my boat was made with no drain hole to allow this water to drain back to the engine bay. I removed the shower bilge bracket to see if the hole was underneat, nothing. I think I will have to drill a hole to allow the water to drain back. My carpet also was getting soaked due to the water building up underneath. How big of a hole did Cruisers put in the "wall" and how far off the bottom did they put it?

Thanks,

Anton



Homeport: ontario Go to Top of Page

Tanqueray

RO# 17091

Posted - Jun 16 2008 :  13:46:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The A/C on mine is located under the bench of the forward facing Dinette Seat and the condensate drain hose runs to the starboard side and through a wall into the bilge area which is IMPOSSIBLE to see because it runs under the bathroom floor. There's a weep hole that allows it to drain from there into the engine compartment. How the hell does anyone keep a bilge dry with all these water drains running into the bilge?

KALENA II

Homeport: New York Go to Top of Page

Anton

RO# 25224

Posted - Jun 17 2008 :  15:24:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yup, My AC unit is in the same spot... Last night I took a better look and found that mine is set-up the same as yours... Still, How do you get to the bilge in the forward cabin? Well, I just got off the phone with a guy who works at Cruisers and has been there for a long time. He said there is no access and admits it was poorly designed. He told me to lift the carpet on the floor near the steps and drill a hole in the floor. Then use a pump to pull the water out of the bilge. Another option was to drill a hole in the engine bay wall, but he could not remember whether the bilge was all open or partitioned to not allow easy flow to the engine bay... My plan is to drill a hole in the cabin floor by the stairs, check the water level, then drill a hole in the engine bay wall and see if the water level goes down. This way I will know if the bilge is partitioned.


Homeport: ontario Go to Top of Page

Tanqueray

RO# 17091

Posted - Jun 17 2008 :  16:23:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good information. I hate to say this but it sounds like you've already comitted yourself to trying it.....so let me know how you make out and maybe I'll try that approach too.

KALENA II

Homeport: New York Go to Top of Page

87cruisers2860

RO# 12618

Posted - Jun 18 2008 :  12:37:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have an 87 Cruisers 2860 Rogue.

Several years ago I was looking for the source of some moisture on the bulk head between the engine and cabin and ended up openning the floor at the rear of the cabin.

The area under the floor in my boat was filled with foam, very wet foam, I ended up taking out an estimated 300 pounds of the stuff, there as a definite performance improvement.

I also drilled a 3 holes at the bottom of the bulk head to let water out in the future. One in the centre, and one on either side of the 2 central stringers.




Homeport: Go to Top of Page

Tanqueray

RO# 17091

Posted - Jun 18 2008 :  13:33:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hmmmmmmmm.......Now this has REALLY got me thinking.....
The Hose from my Air Conditioner drains on the starboard side under the shower floor and obviously into the bilge under the cabin floor. I already know that there IS a weep hole through that same bulkhead that you're referring to on the port side (from under the cabin floor into the engine room bilge area) because I've noticed that when I overfill my fresh water tank the water drains into the same area on the port side and I've actually seen the water draining through the weep hole. I had always just assumed that the same would be true of the starboard side and never really thought about it. But if in fact there IS none on that side I could very well have the same condition under the cabin floor in mine.
Oh GREAT.....Just what I wanted....ANOTHER project for this weekend.
As I'm sure you know....the floor in these things isn't going to be an easy task to raise. )(&$)($&(%_)_}_*&%&^FU#$%#^%(^*)


KALENA II

Homeport: New York Go to Top of Page

Tanqueray

RO# 17091

Posted - Jun 18 2008 :  16:36:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
87cruisers.....Apparently your E-Mail that you have listed with your registration to this site is out-of-date.
I just tried to send you an E-Mail from your Profile page and it came back undeliverable. It said you were "unknown"
Anyways...I was wondering if you remember what you had to do to get the Cabin flooring up? Was it all one piece as mine appears to be? Was it just a matter of finding the screws and taking them out to lift it? Was it fastened any other way? Did you have to remove any cabinets etc. to get it up?


KALENA II

Homeport: New York Go to Top of Page

87cruisers2860

RO# 12618

Posted - Jun 18 2008 :  20:30:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi, I removed the stairs, and the area on the port side under my mid berth where my water tank sits, then cut a "hatch" into the floor. I didn't remove the entire floor. I used a circular saw and set the blade short (started about 5/8th I think) to not go through the stringers, I had to make several passes progressively deeper.

From this hatch, I was able to remove the foam from the middle area and on either side of the stringers.


To get the foam out I used a combination of tools, from an electric chain saw, for the areas I could reach easily, then fabricated an "auger" out of some 3/8 inch rod put it into a drill and kind of reamed the foam up and used a large shop vac to suck out the bits.

My boat has the head on the starboard side so could only get a small access to get at the foam my auger was the only way to get to this foam.

To close up the are I attached strips of wood around the hatch and made a 2 piece cover for it, I can now open the forward part to check on the condition of the area and generally leave it open during the winter to let the air circulate.

My boat did have weeping holes on both sides - outside of the area where I removed the foam, so to ensure water didn't fill up again I drilled 3 more holes and sealed with 3M 5200.





Edited by - 87cruisers2860 on Jun 18 2008 20:41:20

Homeport: Go to Top of Page

Tanqueray

RO# 17091

Posted - Jun 19 2008 :  04:42:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Something is telling me that I'm probably gonna find the same thing in mine.....ARRRrrrggggg....
I'm gonna take today and go start the project.

One thing is puzzling me though...

"My boat did have weeping holes on both sides - outside of the area where I removed the foam, so to ensure water didn't fill up again I drilled 3 more holes and sealed with 3M 5200."

Why would you drill holes and then seal them?
Wait a minute....I may have just answered my own question. Do you mean you used the sealer on the inside edge of the holes you drilled to prevent the partition from absorbing water?


KALENA II

Homeport: New York Go to Top of Page

87cruisers2860

RO# 12618

Posted - Jun 19 2008 :  08:53:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Didn't seal up the holes, just didn't want the plywood to rot.


Homeport: Go to Top of Page

Tanqueray

RO# 17091

Posted - Jun 20 2008 :  00:34:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
GREAT..... Spent the afternoon out there and all I got accomplished was a few more tinker things and worked up a sweat so I had a bunch of cocktails.
I took the carpeting off the steps.....(what a bear THAT was)....found all the rusty stripped head philips screws and eventually got em out. Those that wouldn't unscrew because they're rusty etc., I got a chisel and whacked em in half.
I also took all the panels over the water tank off and the front panels that screw into the Sink Cabinet and all I have access to isssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss


The Water Tank.

My freshwater tank is step shaped and the lower part of it goes under the stairs. No access to ANYthing else and I'd sure hate to be the one to replace THAT tank so I guess that means I'm NOT taking it out.
I guess this project is gonna have to wait till spring and then maybe I'll just cut a door in the floor.
One more question though.
My Gas Tank sits behind my freshwater tank......Is there another partition between them? I couldn't tell from what little access I achieved.
I'm now wondering about maybe just drilling a hole in the bottom of the partition to the engine compartment from the engine side in. Would that open everything up or is there another partition in there somewhere?


KALENA II

Homeport: New York Go to Top of Page

two_rocks

RO# 20862

Posted - Apr 11 2009 :  23:47:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've got a '89 2660 and it sounds like the water tank is the same. I do have an additional bulkhead between the water and fuel tanks, but that was easily cut. The previous owner of my boat apparently like to use harsh head chemicals - so when the system leaked, the aluminum tank (that sits on fiberglass with no ventilation below it) started to rot.

I don't know about your boat, but mine was actually fairly easy to disassemble the surrounding cabinetwork to get both the fuel and water tanks out. I only have a 85 gal fuel (and 30 or 34 water) tank. The larger tanks out have required major work.



Homeport: MA Go to Top of Page
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