boat-ed.com
BoaterEd Store      - Help Support This Forum - Join Today!      Hunting/Fishing Stuff
BoaterEd
Username:
Password:
Save Password


Register

Active Topics | Active Polls | Resources | Members | Online Users | Avatar Legend | Statistics
[ Active Members: 23 | Guests: 181 ]  [ Total: 204 ]  [ Newest Member: mark h bischoff ]
 All Forums
 Clubs - Organized Clubs, Cruises and Activities
 SF Bay and California Delta Boaters
 Rough water boat handling tips???
 New Topic |   New Poll New Poll |   Reply to Topic | 
Author Previous Topic: Times are changing Topic Next Topic: maybe Im crazy???  

Waynepj4

RO# 30904

Posted - Jan 26 2009 :  12:24:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ive become an expert at docking. I can dock with no problem. So far, I havent encountered rough conditions and as a result I have no experience handling a boat in rough water.

Can anyone offer advice on handling a boat in rough water? (planning a trip in Feb that will require me to cross San Pablo bay).

I own a 2001 Bayliner 2855 with 300hp Merc, Bravo 3 leg

Homeport: Martinez, CA

Waynepj4

RO# 30904

Posted - Jan 26 2009 :  13:45:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ok. Perhaps it was a bad question. nevermind


Homeport: Martinez, CA Go to Top of Page

Old_Salt

RO# 20541

Posted - Jan 26 2009 :  14:12:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Waynepj4:

I have never boated in San Francisco Bay, so you may wish to discount the following in itís entirety. I have been in the area several times, and have observed that when the wind is blowing through the Bay, it automatically fills up with sailboats. I donít recall seeing more than 3-4 foot waves (my estimation) with some pretty impressive whitecaps, inside the GG bridge.

My boating area is the PNW and specifically the Inside Passage. My boat is a twin diesel 30 footer with a range of 240 nm or more with WOT capabilities of 30 knots. My typical boating summer includes an extended cruise of 2000-3500 nm over a 60-148 day period, and lots of shorter 5-20 day outings. The weather, even in the summer months, between the B.C. South, Central, and North Coasts and Southeast Alaska, covers the complete spectrum, from light winds and calm seas to gale and storm force winds and wave heights and periods that make you want to be somewhere else.

I am retired. I donít have to be at work on Monday morning. I plan my trips very conservatively with respect to distance required to travel per day. I anchor out most nights. If the morning WX weather report tells me the wind and waves will be up,
Ö I donít go.

I enjoy boating with my wife. She doesnít like travelling in rough weather/water. I donít want to piss her off, so we stay in the anchorage until conditions improve. We make up the time by traveling faster/longer on the good weather days. Better yet, we get ahead of schedule on the early good weather days and work in a pre-planned side trip on the way home, with the banked days.

LAW OF THE BOAT: If one of us doesnít want to go Ö the boat doesnít want to go.

The best way to handle a boat in rough water will depend a lot on the boat, especially the design of the hull. I have a flat-bottomed boat with hard chines. I have loved this boat for all of the 8 years and 2500 engine hours we have shared, but although similar in purpose to your Bayliner, the hull is somewhat different.



When the going gets rough, I put the bow down using the trim tabs (rather than using the leg trim). I believe that adjusting the trim tabs give me a faster reaction time than adjusting the leg trim, if I need to do something in a hurry (other than using the helm or throttle adjustments), and in the logging debris infested waters of the PNW, I often find the need to do something in a hurry. I drop the rpm to a speed that just keeps me on the plane and, in really big seas on top of the swells in open water, I use the throttle to adjust the speed up and down the swells. As above, this depends a lot on the boatís hull design. YMMV.

The most important thing is donít scare yourself and donít scare those with you. They may not get over a bad experience as quickly as you and you may lose them forever as boating companions.

Please forgive me if Iím wrong, but a trip across San Pablo Bay measures about 12 nm max. and about 35 nm around the circumference. Thatís about 2-6 hours at 6 knots.

If your trip across San Pablo Bay for a specific crossing in February is fixed in time, try to arrange for an alternate time now and reschedule for a time that is weather dependent (for a good weather attempt). If the weather is really crappy, and you must go, leave everyone else at home and go solo. Donít risk losing your best boating companions to the fear of boating in bad conditions.

FWIW

Old_Salt

Edit:
You are soooo impatient! If you cant wait two hours for an answer, you're gonna' have trouble waitng 24 hours for good travelling weather!
If that was a bad question, let's hope this is an answer that helps you out anyway.
If I was really smart, Iíd be in San Pablo Bay right now, instead of stuck in the ice at the float in Secret Cove.



Edited by - Old_Salt on Jan 26 2009 14:16:35

Homeport: Porpoise Bay, BC Go to Top of Page

Waynepj4

RO# 30904

Posted - Jan 26 2009 :  15:46:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, GREAT ANSWER and you have a nice looking boat. My boat is a bit different as it has a V hull as opposed to a flat bottom hull. San Pablo bay is about 10 miles across and if the water is smooth and flat..I can cruise at 29 to 30 mph at 3700 rpms. Puts me across the bay in about 20 minutes. Of course if the water is choppy I will have to slow it down.

I wish I was retired and had more time to go boating. Im 32 and still do the 9 to 5 thing so my boating is limited to weekends and holidays.

Unrelated question. how do you keep your hull so clean? I cant exactly take my boat through a car wash and would like to restore the glossy sheen it had when I first bought it.

The longest trip Ive taken so far has been from Martinez Marina to Suisun..distance was about 18 miles each way.

This next trip will be from Martinez to Sausalito, roughly 25 miles. On the way back I intend to stop at Angel Island for lunch.



Homeport: Martinez, CA Go to Top of Page

sixnt

RO# 3052

Posted - Jan 26 2009 :  21:47:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm no expert at rough water handling, but I have some experience with San Pablo Bay, so herewith are some tactics that have worked for me.

Chop can get as high as 4-6 feet, with the worst part under and just west of the Carquinez Bridge. The problem is not so much the height as the frequency of the waves. With just a few vicious feet between wave crests, it often feels like a giant is dribbling the boat like a basketball. So here is what I do in conditions like that:

First, slow down until the hull stays mostly in touch with the water. Most often that means the boat being off plane.

Second, adjust the trim. Bow up will give you the driest ride, but the slowest and least efficient. Bow down will have the bow cut through the waves and ship a lot of water (this may not be good for your boat -- it makes no difference to mine), but will probably be the faster and more comfortable ride.

Third, meet the waves at a 45-60 degree angle. Zigzag back and forth if necessary to maintain this. Avoid 90 degree head on encounters, which will rattle your back teeth and every joint in your body, as well as encounters from the side, which may encourage the boat to come close to rolling over.

Running before the chop is more comfortable but more dangerous. You have less directional control, plus you want to move at the same speed or slightly faster than the waves. You definitely don't want waves breaking over your transom and possibly swamping your engine compartment, overwhelming your bilge pumps, etc.

One last comment... San Pablo Bay is not as rough now as it is in the summer. I don't believe that in February you would be likely to encounter anything like this -- assuming, of course, that you don't go out in a storm.




Homeport: Alameda, CA Go to Top of Page

kgd

RO# 29830

Posted - Jan 27 2009 :  01:24:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have made the East to West trip into the bay in some fairly large wind waves 5-6 feet. My boat is quite a bit larger than yours so it deals with the waves very well. I slow the boat down off plane to avoid any pounding into the waves and take my time. I find that most days on the Bay see winds in the 15 to 20 knot range with wind waves of 3 to 4 feet.

I have also been out in 3 to 4 foot waves in my ski boat on a number of occations on some of the larger parts of the Delta. I take the same approach by slowing down so as to not pound into the waves to keep the ride smooth. I will also keep the bow up a bit in order to keep the boat drier and it also seems to be a bit smoother. My ski boat is 21 feet and doesn't have much of a vee on the bow. Even in 3 to 4 foot wind waves I nor anyone else in the boat has felt unsafe it just takes a while to get anywhere. If the conditions are like that before we are ready to go out we just don't go in the ski boat. But more often than not the water will be great when we go out in the morning and the wind will come up in the afternoon. The smaller channels where we ski are usually just fine but we will have to deal with the wind at some point in order to back to the dock. Just check the weather report before you go. Here is the site I use for weather in the Bay Area.

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/zone/west/mtrmz.htm

Keep in mind that the SF Bay and Western Delta covers a lot of area so the conditions can be different depending on where you are at. My experience has found the report fairly accurate. With the speed of your boat you should be able to get to cover very quickly if you need to. Once you get past the San Rafeal bridge the trip should be pretty mild. This should't be a difficult trip, just check the weather and give your self plenty of time. I was out on the bay two weekends ago and it was one of the nicest days I had all year. Very little wind and around 70 degrees.

Kris


San Francisco, CA

Homeport: San Francisco, CA Go to Top of Page

BayTrawlerGuy

RO# 14696

Posted - Jan 27 2009 :  16:36:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A two part answer: First part, boats differ a good deal. I don't have any idea how your boat would handle in rough water.

Second part: San Pablo Bay can get VERY uncomfortable. The roughest time I've had in 12 years boating with a 36' twin-engine trawler was in SPB when the wind was blowing in from the west and the current was ebbing big time. Those six-foot, seven-second waves were the "big and square" type that hammer your boat. (This made 13' swells offshore, when EVERYTHING disappears when you're in the trough, seem tame.)

In the summer, the usual wind pattern is increasing westerly winds throughout the day, dying down at night. (This is because the sun heats the Central Valley, the air rises, and cool ocean air rushes in as the day goes on.) When there is an ebb tide in the afternoon this can result in big, short waves. (The shallow nature of SPB both speeds the ebb current and increases the wave effect.) When the wind has been blowing consistently for a couple of days or more the effect can be increased, but you really don't know until you go through the Carquinez Strait and check. I'd allow some time flexibility, or plan to cross on a summer morning, to avoid the worst of it.

In the winter, the wind patterns are much less stable and (except for the storms sixnt mentioned) usually less forceful. For fairly average non-storm days, as we are experiencing this week, it is less likely (but not impossible) that you would see severe conditions on SPB.

Hope this helps.

BTG



Homeport: Go to Top of Page

MARINETECH

RO# 30923

Posted - Jan 27 2009 :  18:43:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hand on the wheel and hand on throttles

I love my grady going around Pt Bonita
I have been in some really nasty stuff
last year's fleet week with 14 ft waves were fun
I use my dirt bike riding skills also!!!



Homeport: ON THE WATER Go to Top of Page

pdecat

RO# 842



Posted - Jan 27 2009 :  19:00:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Listen to this from BTG
was in SPB when the wind was blowing in from the west and the current was ebbing big time

unless you are experiencing a big storm front an early start will keep you out of the wind. but wind on the flood wont be a big deal.



Bruce



Edited by - pdecat on Jan 27 2009 19:02:57

Homeport: Gulf Coast FL Go to Top of Page

jtybt15

RO# 3300

Posted - Jan 29 2009 :  01:23:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just try to stay away from heading into 20+ winds. It just gets uncomfortable.

As BTG says, the wind generally starts up about 10-11 o'clock in the main bay thru the gate but may or may not effect San Pablo bay.

I've been in 7' wind waves in the bay...down right dangerous.





Charlie

There is much to be said, in a world like ours, for taking the world as you find it and fishing with a worm.-Bliss Perry, 1904



Homeport: Ca Go to Top of Page

Martinez_Mitch

RO# 30802

Posted - Jan 30 2009 :  02:30:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
All good advice above.

Although I have boated the Bay & Delta for over 30 years, I have never experienced conditions such I will relay here.

I remember reading an article in the Bay & Delta Yachtsman, where an experienced boater that lived in Discovery Bay, had decided to take his go-fast boat in to the City (rather than his trawler), for the weekend to give a presentation.

He lived on the water at Disco Bay, and owned a trawler and a Fountain go fast - I think it was a twin 32' Fountain.

He made his presentation in the City, checked the weather, and it was "OK". So he departed SF heading for Disco Bay (SW section of the Delta, an exlusive on the water community).

Short story long, it was very rough while crossing SP Bay, he was virtually trapped. He tried hiding in several coves, and everything else an experienced boater would do. His 32' Fountain would either stuff the bow in the tight swells, or be swamped over the transom when slowed down. As an experienced boater, he felt he had NO CHOICE but to call the CG. He tried to cut in towards shore in shallower water, or finding protection, and many other last ditch moves. He could not avoid taking on water no matter what this experienced captain did...so he Called the CG.

So a large CG cutter arrives, and he expected them to say WTF are you doing out here! But the young CG guy said only, "Nice ride"...

The large 44' Cutter knocked down the chop, as he followed it in to Vallejo. The CG he said, claimed 9' swells that day, and very tight.

I've never seen these these conditions there, but through many reputable sources, I have no doubt it CAN get that rough, if conditions are just right...



Edited by - Martinez_Mitch on Jan 30 2009 02:37:16

Homeport: Martinez, CA Go to Top of Page

Martinez_Mitch

RO# 30802

Posted - Jan 30 2009 :  03:03:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OMG, I forgot to mention!

Old Salt, it's such a PLEASURE to see you here. Having an interest in the inside passage, I have read and totally appreciated your very informative posts in that section.

Glad to see you here, and glad to have the opportunity to say Thank You, for your great contibution to this forum.

It is such an honor.

You are one of the primary reason these forums are what they are.

THANKS!



Homeport: Martinez, CA Go to Top of Page

Comfortably Numb

RO# 29205

Posted - Jan 30 2009 :  12:42:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Old Salt - I second Martinez Mitches comments - what a thoughtfull and well presented opinion! Welcome to the Delta!
Jim


Life is short - boat more!

Homeport: Oxbow Marina, Isleton, CA Go to Top of Page

Old_Salt

RO# 20541

Posted - Jan 30 2009 :  15:32:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mitch and Jim:

Aw, shucks, guys. Thank You!

OS




Homeport: Porpoise Bay, BC Go to Top of Page

Old_Salt

RO# 20541

Posted - Jan 30 2009 :  15:34:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
... You're only joking with an old man, right?

OS



Homeport: Porpoise Bay, BC Go to Top of Page

Waynepj4

RO# 30904

Posted - Jan 30 2009 :  16:44:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Martinez_Mitch

All good advice above.

Although I have boated the Bay & Delta for over 30 years, I have never experienced conditions such I will relay here.

I remember reading an article in the Bay & Delta Yachtsman, where an experienced boater that lived in Discovery Bay, had decided to take his go-fast boat in to the City (rather than his trawler), for the weekend to give a presentation.

He lived on the water at Disco Bay, and owned a trawler and a Fountain go fast - I think it was a twin 32' Fountain.

He made his presentation in the City, checked the weather, and it was "OK". So he departed SF heading for Disco Bay (SW section of the Delta, an exlusive on the water community).

Short story long, it was very rough while crossing SP Bay, he was virtually trapped. He tried hiding in several coves, and everything else an experienced boater would do. His 32' Fountain would either stuff the bow in the tight swells, or be swamped over the transom when slowed down. As an experienced boater, he felt he had NO CHOICE but to call the CG. He tried to cut in towards shore in shallower water, or finding protection, and many other last ditch moves. He could not avoid taking on water no matter what this experienced captain did...so he Called the CG.

So a large CG cutter arrives, and he expected them to say WTF are you doing out here! But the young CG guy said only, "Nice ride"...

The large 44' Cutter knocked down the chop, as he followed it in to Vallejo. The CG he said, claimed 9' swells that day, and very tight.

I've never seen these these conditions there, but through many reputable sources, I have no doubt it CAN get that rough, if conditions are just right...



CG pulled my parents trawler in from SB bay after experiencing engine trouble. its a 34 foot CHB. With the engine running it was a bit up and down in the 9 foot swells but we comfortably enjoyed the ride. When the engine shut off however we were at the full mercy of SB bay. Never took on water but it was a very drastic up and down motion. So..here's my plan. We will leave out relatively early in my Bayliner 285..say around 9am..hope to cross San Pablo Bay early in the morning before the winds and the big swells. Im sure San Pablo can be crossed..I doubt its always as trecherous as people say..we shall see..if its choppy on Carquinez Strait..I may ditch SP Bay altogether..turn around..and then drive by car to Sausalito and still have a good time.



Homeport: Martinez, CA Go to Top of Page

Flutterby

RO# 14378

Posted - Jan 30 2009 :  17:59:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sounds like a great plan and I'm sure your wife will have a great time. She's a lucky lady...


Just think about the mess Obama inherit this time. And it ain't Bush's fault!!!

Homeport: California Sierras/Gold Country Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic: Times are changing Topic Next Topic: maybe Im crazy???  
 New Topic |   New Poll New Poll |   Reply to Topic | 
Jump To:
BoaterEd © BoaterEd Go To Top Of Page
This page took 0.73 seconds to load
Forum Guidelines and Privacy Notice

Shop BoatStore.net!     Shop for Toys & Games!    Shop for Housewares!

Boatered.com