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 Steering adjustment?
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Author Previous Topic: Crownline 242cr bilge pump wiring question/problem Topic Next Topic: Problem when I removed the starboard manifold  

alfnator

RO# 24368

Posted - May 13 2009 :  18:33:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have noticed that I'm constantly having to correct my steering the last few times that I have gone out. When the boat is on the trailer I have observed that when I turn the steering wheel the outdrive does not move until a few turns of the wheel. Is there a place to adjust this?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Homeport: biscayne bay

jtybt15

RO# 3300

Posted - May 13 2009 :  19:30:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
...a few turns of the wheel!


I'm afraid you're way past adjusting.





Charlie

There is much to be said, in a world like ours, for taking the world as you find it and fishing with a worm.-Bliss Perry, 1904



Homeport: Ca Go to Top of Page

zane

RO# 19940

Posted - May 13 2009 :  20:07:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would bet your swivelshafts and or gimble ring are shot. If you have a buddy around you can try and narrow down where the problem is . Have someone look inside at engine compartment, specifically where the steering system meets the tiller . You turn the wheel. If the tiller arm moves but the outdrive doesnt, your problem is right there. It could be that the tiller arm is stripped, or the gimble ring or swivelshaft are shot. If the tiller does not move then you have a problem at the helm . Either way, you have to get back there and poke around.I wouldnt run the boat like that. Imagine the whole thing letting go as your zipping along at a nice clip.


Homeport: long island, n.y. Go to Top of Page

alfnator

RO# 24368

Posted - May 13 2009 :  22:24:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you Zane for the helpful information and warning.

By any chance does anyone know the normal price range for replacing the tiller arm , gimble ring or swivelshaft on a baylier 245 (2005)

Thanks again



Edited by - alfnator on May 13 2009 22:24:41

Homeport: biscayne bay Go to Top of Page

j-d

RO# 15782

Posted - May 13 2009 :  22:59:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No way to tell from here, of course, but my guess would be a Helm or Cable problem before a major transom area problem on a four year old MerCruiser. The suggestions above will help you isolate it to helm or transom. By the time a steering cable gets a few years old it gets sticky and steering becomes difficult. Ours was that way when we bought the boat with low hours eight years old, so I don't know how long it was sticky.
Is the wheel smooth, easy, sticky or rough as you turn it now? Does it change with engine running so power steering is active?
Be sure it's not the helm and cable before you dive into the transom area. BoatFix can sell you a replacement cable for between $75 and $150, and a kit including helm for maybe $25 more. All you need is a plain helm, not a No-Feed-Back, since NFB is incorporated into your MerC power steering. This is a DIY job you can complete for a fraction of the labor on a transom job. Of course if it needs work back there, it needs it. Just be sure it does.
FYI - If your power steering is still like ours, there are wrench flats on the inboard end of the MerC steering part the cable attaches to with the big captive nut on the cable. Those flats must be left in a vertical position for the power steering valve to work.


God Bless, jd
1996 Sea Ray 215EC
Alpha One GEN II 5.7L/350CID/EFI/220HP
14-1/2*19 Stainless RWC

Homeport: Sunny Florida Go to Top of Page

alfnator

RO# 24368

Posted - May 14 2009 :  00:09:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is the wheel smooth, easy, sticky or rough as you turn it now? The wheel feels the same as always smooth and easy to turn.

Does it change with engine running so power steering is active? In the water with the engine running it also feels the same as always smooth and easy.

the only difference is how much of a rotation the wheel needs to change course.

Thanks again for the helpful responses.



Homeport: biscayne bay Go to Top of Page

ddurand

RO# 5015

Posted - May 14 2009 :  19:05:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If its a Merc Alpha then there are two small bolts on the outdrive a few inches apart. They tighten things around the steering arm. Unsure if a Bravo is the same.

Get a torque wrench and tighten each one a little (going back and forth) until it matches what is in the manual.

The problem is there is a square hole in the gimbal ring that wears round. There are companies that will remachine the gimbal ring and arm better than new for a lot less than new.

A mechanic fixed my outdrive by tightening the two small bolts rather than replacing the gimbal ring. Keeping these bolts to the proper torque reduces wear of the square hole.

Some mechanics can get the gimbal ring off without pulling the engine, others pull the engine and others drill some access holes in the outdrive and plug when done.



Homeport: Hyde Park, NY Go to Top of Page

alfnator

RO# 24368

Posted - May 18 2009 :  18:06:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why wasn't vaseline included in the parts list?


Today I got an estimate from a dealer I have never been to about the steering issue that I'm having.


Here is the estimate that I recieved . Note they did not take anything apart (I guess from the slag of the outdrive they can determine this) but he said that this is the best case scenerio:

Gimbal Bearing $592.58
Bearing 17.34
Upper Shaft 333.25
Stering Lever 175.33
Washer 1.20
Nut 5.58 (Not sure if they are asking for one of mine)
Screw 1.20 (Notice no vaseline is listed)
Washer 3.42
Nut .53 (I guess no more kids for me)
Washer 1.86
Bushing 14.60
Bushing 10.55
Seal 8.80
seal 9.00
PIN 3.81
Shop supplies 50.00
Shipping 75.00

Estimated labor (24 hrs rb2rb2@gr5tgr5t $105 ) $2,520.00

tax: 229.44
Total : 4,053.49 as the best case.

In summary
From the itemized bill it looks like to me that within 24 hours they are going to remove both my nuts than ship them somewhere, wash my upper Shaft and steering Lever, stick a pin in me and then seal my bearing for $ 4,053.49.

So does this sound reasonable or are they trying to rape me on our first date? Is this to much for a DIY project or has anyone done this themselves? Note my in-law is a Mercedes mechanic and has just about every tool known to man including lifts?

:(



Homeport: biscayne bay Go to Top of Page

zane

RO# 19940

Posted - May 18 2009 :  21:01:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You can search around the internet to see if the parts price is up to snuff, and you are in a part of the country where labor is expensive. I dont know your abilities, but its a tough job for a diyer. that being said..for the most part I try and do everything myself with one caveat....i try not to do any more damage. In other words...if i get an estimate for 2,000 and i attempt it and fail i dont want it to cost more than the original 2,000. There is a guy called Ron bender, from ohio,who rebuilds gimbles better than new. jrmarine dot com. He is a machine shop so i dont think I violated any rules by giving his name. Thats who i used. He has a technique that merc now teaches to get the gimble out with out removing the motor. If your up to it, look him up and contact him. He answered the phone each and everytime i called. Saved me thousands.quick turn around.A very honest guy.


Homeport: long island, n.y. Go to Top of Page

zane

RO# 19940

Posted - May 18 2009 :  21:24:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
also..check the south florida boaters club right here at boatered. maybe someone can recommend a good mechanic in your neck of the woods.


Homeport: long island, n.y. Go to Top of Page

alfnator

RO# 24368

Posted - May 18 2009 :  21:40:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Again Zane for the info I think I'm going to see if I can get a second estimate or try to find more info on how to replace the gimbal ring. If I do it myself I think I'm going to go with jrmarine as you suggested. Do you know if they give you any instructions on how to replace it.





Homeport: biscayne bay Go to Top of Page

ddurand

RO# 5015

Posted - May 18 2009 :  21:58:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Where is the gimbal ring listed. If the shaft that is listed is the one with a square shaft that fits into the gimbal ring, one should not be replaced without the other.

How do they know the gimbal bearing needs replacement. Did they pull the drive and reach in and feel it?



Homeport: Hyde Park, NY Go to Top of Page

alfnator

RO# 24368

Posted - May 18 2009 :  22:16:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No they did not pull the drive. My mistake I should have said Gimbal Bearing and not Gimbal ring.




Homeport: biscayne bay Go to Top of Page

jtybt15

RO# 3300

Posted - May 18 2009 :  22:24:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
They're trying yo stick it to you.

First, you gotta determine where the play is or you're gonna get this kind of treatment. He's adding parts that may not even be involved. He is basically dishonest or he's trying to give you the highest possible estimate incase the costs go over.

The most likely cause it a worn gimbal ring but you should check everything first.

You should have a service/repair manual to see what parts are being described.

First grab the steering lever that comes thru the transom that the steering cable connects to. (This is one of the parts he's charging you that he shouldn't). Turn the steering wheel to see if there's any play between the steering wheel and the lever.

Next you have to see if there's play between the steering lever and the upper swivel shaft. You can see the bottom of the upper swivel shaft from the outside of the boat, just above the bell housing where it goes thru the top of the gimbal ring. You can also check the play between the steering and gimbal ring. Look or feel for play between the shaft and gimbal ring and the steering wheel. Have someone hold the drive as someone rocks the steering wheel back and forth.





Charlie

There is much to be said, in a world like ours, for taking the world as you find it and fishing with a worm.-Bliss Perry, 1904



Homeport: Ca Go to Top of Page

zane

RO# 19940

Posted - May 19 2009 :  08:02:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
These forums are great and I have gained an incredible amount of knowledge because of them, but nothing replaces the manual. If you look at the manual you can see where every part listed is and how it works. For example the steering lever sits on top of the swivel shaft and is bolted to it. The swivelshaft in turn goes thru the gimble ring. It is possible that if you tighten the bolt on top of the steering lever all your problems might be solved. Charlie is right..if its the gimble ring that is shot, the steering lever might be fine..or...the gimble and swivelshaft are fine but the hole in the steering lever is shot.Get the manual, determine that the play is definately at the transom and go from there. If you disassemble I am sure you can find a reputable supplier in s. florida who can tell you what must be replaced by examining the parts. Ron Bender will show you how to gain access with his technique, from there its just following the manual, but if you call with questions he always answers.


Homeport: long island, n.y. Go to Top of Page

Chief Alen

RO# 31229

Posted - May 19 2009 :  08:12:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You have rack and pinion on that steering helm correct? Lay down on your back under the dash and see if the rack dropped because the 2 bolts/ screws that hold it up backed off. Without actually seeing it for myself i bet it's under there the problem.

Be good, be happy for tomorrow is promised to no man.

Homeport: Manalapan, NJ Go to Top of Page

ddurand

RO# 5015

Posted - May 19 2009 :  09:04:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Did you try the adjustment I suggested? I was told I needed a gimbal ring and dropped off boat at the marina and they fixed things by tightening the small bolts I suggested. That was a few years ago and things are still fine.


Homeport: Hyde Park, NY Go to Top of Page

DaleG

RO# 3500

Posted - May 19 2009 :  16:35:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Check that steering rack under the dash as suggested above -- I cannot imagine those parts wearing out in just a couple of years ---

thanks ---
DaleG -- West Palm Beach
2003 Four Winns 240Horizon 5.7Gi-DP

Homeport: Palm Beach Gardens, FL Go to Top of Page

alfnator

RO# 24368

Posted - May 19 2009 :  21:58:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't have the boat with me at the moment its stored at my uncles but when I get a chance (maybe this weekend) I'm going to try the suggested recommendations starting with the simple ones. I believe I do have the service manual on the boat and as Zane suggested thats what I will reference to begin with.

THANKS everyone for all the help.



Homeport: biscayne bay Go to Top of Page
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