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 Marine Sanitation, Plumbing and the like.
 Clogged holding tank???
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Author Previous Topic: скачать шарит Topic Next Topic: Raritan Crown Head  - Spring Commissioning  

mchad

RO# 4410

Posted - Jun 15 2009 :  12:17:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I made a grim observation this weekend. On my new to me 2000 crownline 242, I went to pump out the head for the first time since buying it. It began as normal for about 3 seconds, but then the flow slowed to what amounts to about a gallon a minute (as opposed to the usual what appears to be gallon a second) and wouldn't improve, no matter how much I stopped and restarted. I think I have a blockage, as when I sprayed water in the waste fitting, the hose filled up! So what can I do? Roto-rooter? I am terrified of the thought of having to replace the tank!

Any suggestions?

Homeport: Ossining, NY

ronp

RO# 23477



Posted - Jun 15 2009 :  13:22:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Maybe something clogged the pumpout hose. Do you have a snake? Alternately there's a device that attaches to a garden hose that is a rubber bellows kind of deal. You push it in to where the clog is, turn on the water, it fills up and locks itself in place and then blasts a stream of water at the clog. I would think the thick-walled sewer hose could handle that but have only used it with iron pipe.

But, are you sure there's not a Y valve someplace for an overboard fitting?

From what you say it does not sound like a vent hose issue.


Thanks,
Ron

Homeport: Amityville, NY Go to Top of Page

MikeeH

RO# 6342



Posted - Jun 15 2009 :  13:26:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sounds like the tank may be overfull and clogged the vent. If the vent is clogged and air can't get in, no stuff can be sucked out. Next time you try to pumpout have someone take a look at the tank while the suction is applied and see if the tank looks like the vacuum is distorting the tank. Also, be careful so you don't get a sudden "explosive discharge" coming out of the pumpout outlet when removing the hose as air rushes in to replace the vacuum.

Mike

I recently realized that at this stage of my life I'm now wise enough to know better, but old enough not to give a damn.

Homeport: Still Pond, MD Go to Top of Page

mchad

RO# 4410

Posted - Jun 15 2009 :  13:34:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I left that out. I suspected it was the vent, so I disconnected the vent hose from the tank, and ran a wire through the fitting to make sure it wasn't clogged. Tried it with the vent hose disconnected too. No suction at the vent hose fitting. So it's probably not the vent...

There is no Y valve, the discharge host goes from the tank directly to the waste fitting.

I guess I could get a snake, and some rubber gloves. And a respirator. And a face shield. And a decon chamber. Ugh.

I wonder what would clog it so bad? That pumpout creates a pretty good vacuum... Who knows.



Edited by - mchad on Jun 15 2009 13:35:38

Homeport: Ossining, NY Go to Top of Page

Ghost

RO# 689



Posted - Jun 15 2009 :  14:00:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is what's called a boating rite of passage.

What part of GALE WARNING did you not understand?

Homeport: Everett Wa Go to Top of Page

ronp

RO# 23477



Posted - Jun 15 2009 :  14:32:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Might a plunger over the deck fitting put enough back pressure in the hose to dislodge a clog? It shouldn't take a lot to push out a wad of TP. You might get lucky. Then again, you put pressure in a hose that normally does not have any, maybe you force the hose to pop off a fitting somewhere and then you have a real mess. You definitely want to think through every step you take on this.

Thanks,
Ron

Homeport: Amityville, NY Go to Top of Page

MikeeH

RO# 6342



Posted - Jun 15 2009 :  14:35:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guess its not the vent then. You can try what Ron suggested. I've used that device at home and it does work. You can find them at any hardware store.

Mike

I recently realized that at this stage of my life I'm now wise enough to know better, but old enough not to give a damn.

Homeport: Still Pond, MD Go to Top of Page

Billylll

RO# 24494

Posted - Jun 15 2009 :  15:14:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Try boiling hot water in your Microwave a few gallons of that should loosen up any sludge.
Bill


Bill Lentz
Little Egg, N.J.

Homeport: Tuckerton, N.J. Go to Top of Page

mchad

RO# 4410

Posted - Jun 15 2009 :  15:35:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh boy. This, and what I have been reading on the interweb is really scaring the crap out of me. I think maybe if a snake doesn't work, then letting a professional handle it may be the way to go.

I just have a thing about potentially being coated in someone elses crap...



Homeport: Ossining, NY Go to Top of Page

PascalG

RO# 12212



Posted - Jun 15 2009 :  16:25:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
need to look at the hose fittings and see how they're connected.

some boats have a fitting at the bottom of the tank where the pump out hose is attached... others have a fitting at the top and a dip tube which goes in the tank. In either case something could be clogging the fitting or the tube but that's unusual since those hoses are normally 1.5"... i'd try forcing water in first, with the uncloging gizmo others mentioned.

obviously, check the hose along the whole run to make sure it's not kinked or collapsed, unlikely unless some genius replaced the hose with something too soft/un ribbed. never know...


Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper

Homeport: Miami, FL Go to Top of Page

Capt. Bill1

RO# 2017

Posted - Jun 15 2009 :  16:55:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd be surprised if it's just TP causing the clog. Once it makes it to the holding tank there should not be much left of any TP.

You may have to unclog it and then get in there to remove what ever is clogging it. As it may just clog the hose or your pump again. Once unclogged, flush the tank with lots and lots of fresh water in case you have to go in it.



Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale Go to Top of Page

Billylll

RO# 24494

Posted - Jun 15 2009 :  18:05:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In addition make sure all your sanitation hoses are smooth walled. If they are not the TP problem could be the problem created by corrigated house. Bill

Bill Lentz
Little Egg, N.J.

Homeport: Tuckerton, N.J. Go to Top of Page

mchad

RO# 4410

Posted - Jun 15 2009 :  20:33:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The hose is standard smooth white sanitation hose, going to a fitting at the bottom of the tank. I'll try a snake or the water pressure unclogger I guess, but if that doesn't do it, or it happens again, it'll have to go to a professional. There's only a small, 2" or so access port, so I am probably not going digging around in there.

We'll see.



Homeport: Ossining, NY Go to Top of Page

32carv

RO# 24150



Posted - Jun 15 2009 :  21:47:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you can't unplug you could probably go to Home Depot and make up a fitting pump out through th access port on the top.
Jim



Edited by - 32carv on Jun 16 2009 23:00:02

Homeport: Sacandaga Lake Go to Top of Page

lobsta1

RO# 1808

Posted - Jun 15 2009 :  22:27:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Could it be something as simple as the impellor in the macerator pump is shot?
Al


1978 Bertram 33

Homeport: Beverly,Ma Go to Top of Page

SCORPIO

RO# 4810



Posted - Jun 15 2009 :  22:34:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Have you had any guests out lately? Did you give the "don't flush it unless you ate it or it came off this role" speech? Sounds like the clog could be a feminine hygene product.

Chris USPS AP

Homeport: Lewes, Delaware Go to Top of Page

mchad

RO# 4410

Posted - Jun 15 2009 :  22:54:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
- No macerator. Hose from bottom of tank to pump out fitting.

- No history. Could be from past owner, definitly not from my gf.




Homeport: Ossining, NY Go to Top of Page

Vic Willman

RO# 3655

Posted - Jun 16 2009 :  08:54:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've been waiting and watching, to see if any clarification turned up - which hasn't. In the first posting, you said you were trying to pump out the head. But most of the following correspondence indicated that the holding tank won't pump out. So which is it? The head or the holding tank - or both?

If you're having trouble pumping out the head - the problem is most likely in the head. If you're having trouble emptying the holding tank, that's an entirely different kettle of fish. Are you trying to empty it via an onboard macerator pump? Or have you been to a pumpout station, and it isn't able to pump out the tank?

What hasn't been mentioned by anyone thus far, is that not all pumpout stations are equal - and where one can't pump out your tank, another one may be able to do it without difficulty.

At this point, I'm rather confused...



-- The Head Master --

Homeport: Millville, NJ Go to Top of Page

mchad

RO# 4410

Posted - Jun 16 2009 :  23:41:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Vic Willman

I've been waiting and watching, to see if any clarification turned up - which hasn't. In the first posting, you said you were trying to pump out the head. But most of the following correspondence indicated that the holding tank won't pump out. So which is it? The head or the holding tank - or both?

If you're having trouble pumping out the head - the problem is most likely in the head. If you're having trouble emptying the holding tank, that's an entirely different kettle of fish. Are you trying to empty it via an onboard macerator pump? Or have you been to a pumpout station, and it isn't able to pump out the tank?

What hasn't been mentioned by anyone thus far, is that not all pumpout stations are equal - and where one can't pump out your tank, another one may be able to do it without difficulty.

At this point, I'm rather confused...





Sorry, I guess I wasn't completely clear.

The difficulty is when trying to pump out the holding tank. I'm not sure that the problem is with the pump out station, as it *seems* to create quite the vacuum. So much so that it would be very difficult to remove it from the waste fitting even after closing the valve.

Jabsco manual pump head, to a holding tank to a pump out fitting. No Y valve, no macerator. Not a clogged vent.

Haven't tried a snake/auger yet, planning on buying one this week for a try on Friday.

Thanks

The head itself flushes with ease.



Edited by - mchad on Jun 16 2009 23:42:57

Homeport: Ossining, NY Go to Top of Page

Billylll

RO# 24494

Posted - Jun 16 2009 :  23:43:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Vic great point, I can not get pumped out by the "Waste Watcher" Ocean County's Little Egg pump out boat. However I have no problem getting pumped out at the local marina. Bill

Bill Lentz
Little Egg, N.J.

Homeport: Tuckerton, N.J. Go to Top of Page

Larry B

RO# 7053

Posted - Jun 17 2009 :  17:28:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I not sure that scaring the crap out of you is the answer! Ya may want to direct what you have been reading to the tank!
quote:
Originally posted by mchad

Oh boy. This, and what I have been reading on the interweb is really scaring the crap out of me. I think maybe if a snake doesn't work, then letting a professional handle it may be the way to go.

I just have a thing about potentially being coated in someone elses crap...



Larry B

Homeport: Des Moines Go to Top of Page

Billylll

RO# 24494

Posted - Jun 18 2009 :  00:35:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Larry B

I not sure that scaring the crap out of you is the answer! Ya may want to direct what you have been reading to the tank!
quote:
Originally posted by mchad

Oh boy. This, and what I have been reading on the interweb is really scaring the crap out of me. I think maybe if a snake doesn't work, then letting a professional handle it may be the way to go.

I just have a thing about potentially being coated in someone elses crap...



Larry are you trying to be a comedian? Keep your day job. The guy has been getting some good advice.
Bill


Bill Lentz
Little Egg, N.J.

Homeport: Tuckerton, N.J. Go to Top of Page

Larry B

RO# 7053

Posted - Jun 18 2009 :  14:12:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes he is getting good advice! Since I can't top I thought my observation would be fun.I don't have a day job!

Larry B

Homeport: Des Moines Go to Top of Page

rawidman

RO# 25110

Posted - Jun 18 2009 :  21:04:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Haven't tried a snake/auger yet, planning on buying one this week for a try on Friday.


Just remember, you have plastic or rubber hose, not the metal or rigid plastic pipes the plumber's snake are intended for. You could damage the hose pretty easily if there are sharp points on the hose.


Ron
2000 Camano Troll

Homeport: Charleston, SC Go to Top of Page

rawidman

RO# 25110

Posted - Jun 18 2009 :  21:07:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mchad

I just have a thing about potentially being coated in someone elses crap...


There's not really any difference between someone else's crap and your own crap.

Seriously, plumbers go through this all the time. You'll live through it.


Ron
2000 Camano Troll

Homeport: Charleston, SC Go to Top of Page

Billylll

RO# 24494

Posted - Jun 18 2009 :  21:19:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good deal Larry I guess? I still say try the boiling water it really helped clear clogs I had when I used to use a VacuFlush. Now with the new Elegance Head haven't had clogging problems. I did some minor replumbing of my sanitation hoses last weekend and I was surprised at the lack of stench. The Odorless seems to be working well. But boy did I cut up my hands around all the stainless clamps and hard to remove hoses. I ended up just putting a razor knife slice in the hose and removing them and then installed new hoses using soap and a heat gun. They sure seem to go on easier than they come off! I have always had a problem with the pumpout boat in Little Egg not being able to draw from my waste tank yet most pumpout stations work. I think I found the problem so I'll know this weekend when I hail them and we try. It was a cracked Y valve (internal) the valve went from the output of the tank to the deck waste fitting or the pump for the PuraSan Hold-N-Treat. I was also able to shorten up the hose to the deck fitting by 2 feet.
Bill


Bill Lentz
Little Egg, N.J.

Homeport: Tuckerton, N.J. Go to Top of Page

mchad

RO# 4410

Posted - Aug 03 2009 :  15:23:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I thought I dodged this bullet, but I guess not.

After a couple of tries with a snake, spraying water, cycling the pump out valve on and off, I got a nice wooosh of pumping out (fast, like it should). I then put the garden hose in and it took a minute of freshwater. Pumped out with a wooosh again, and filled again. Third time was the charm, as it started pumping fast when "clunk", it then slowed to a drip. There must be something in there.

I left it, used it a few times, and last week the pump out boat came by and pumped again. This time it was coming out with only about 1/4 of the capacity of the 1 1/2" hose (visable through the clear inspection section of the pump out fitting). Ok, still pumping out, slowly, but it's evacuating the tank. So I pumped for 10 min and figured that was enough to get me through the weekend.

Now, Friday, I go to pump out again, and nothing comes out. The pump out is pumping, but nothing it coming out. There is no suction at the vent (which I confirmed is clear) and the pump out created such a vacuum, that when I shut the valve, I literally had to pry the hose off, hearing the air suck in the hose.

There has to be something in there that is creating the blockage. I think it is either in the hose, or right at the fitting in the tank.

So I guess I am at the point of just saying "F" it, and changing the tank out (and the 4' of hose going to the deck fitting). For a couple of reasons. First, obviously is the clog. Next, the tank is aluminium, which I understand will eventually corrode. And last, the tank has no level indicator.

So my question is, which is the best brand holding tank (this is a small tank, only 18 gallons) and how do I ensure the fittings locations match the existing tank? Can they be ordered to my specs?

Thanks for the ongoing help with this crap (pun intended)



Edited by - mchad on Aug 03 2009 15:24:04

Homeport: Ossining, NY Go to Top of Page

ALKA2710

RO# 25407

Posted - Aug 03 2009 :  17:15:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You should be able to pull off the hose on the tank and be able to see what is going on at least I can on my boat. Seems a little extreme to pull the tank. Yess a messy job but what choice do you have.
Al



Homeport: FREEPORT Go to Top of Page

rawidman

RO# 25110

Posted - Aug 03 2009 :  18:12:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mchad


There has to be something in there that is creating the blockage. I think it is either in the hose, or right at the fitting in the tank.

So I guess I am at the point of just saying "F" it, and changing the tank out (and the 4' of hose going to the deck fitting). For a couple of reasons. First, obviously is the clog. Next, the tank is aluminium, which I understand will eventually corrode. And last, the tank has no level indicator.

So my question is, which is the best brand holding tank (this is a small tank, only 18 gallons) and how do I ensure the fittings locations match the existing tank? Can they be ordered to my specs?


If you think there is something in the tank that sometimes clogs the outlet (think a piece of an old joker valve or just a solid that someone flushed), you can cut a hole in the top of the tank for an access plate (I did this to my plastic tank) and look or feel for what's clogging the outlet.

I understand aluminum holding tanks are problematic anyway because of urine.

For a replacement, do a web search on "holding tank" and you'll find lots of sources. Get a plastic tank. You should be able to find one to fit.


Ron
2000 Camano Troll

Edited by - rawidman on Aug 03 2009 18:13:24

Homeport: Charleston, SC Go to Top of Page

lobsta1

RO# 1808

Posted - Aug 03 2009 :  20:31:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Google ronco-plastics. All their tanks are at least 3/8" thick & you specify exactly where you want the fittings & what size. I would recommend you
redo your set up. Fill, vent & PUMP OUT from the top of the tank. If you have room, put in an inspection port. If you have room, put in two standpipes
to pump out from the top. One to a vented loop & then to a thru hull. The other one to the deck pump out. Use a keyed switch to operate a diaphragm pump to the thru hull. That way no wye-valve is needed.
Al

P.S. Look carefully at your options & see if you can squeeze in a larger tank.


1978 Bertram 33

Homeport: Beverly,Ma Go to Top of Page

mchad

RO# 4410

Posted - Aug 04 2009 :  12:18:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lobsta1

Google ronco-plastics. All their tanks are at least 3/8" thick & you specify exactly where you want the fittings & what size. I would recommend you
redo your set up. Fill, vent & PUMP OUT from the top of the tank. If you have room, put in an inspection port. If you have room, put in two standpipes
to pump out from the top. One to a vented loop & then to a thru hull. The other one to the deck pump out. Use a keyed switch to operate a diaphragm pump to the thru hull. That way no wye-valve is needed.
Al

P.S. Look carefully at your options & see if you can squeeze in a larger tank.




So for the pump out fitting at the top, they install a dip tube or something?



Homeport: Ossining, NY Go to Top of Page

rawidman

RO# 25110

Posted - Aug 04 2009 :  14:05:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mchad



So for the pump out fitting at the top, they install a dip tube or something?



Well, yes. Otherwise you would have to turn the tank upside down to empty it.

As to putting the fittings on the top vs. end or side, you have to look at available space. If you have to get a tank that's two inches shorter to accomodate top fittings, you might want to consider end fittings so you don't give up capacity.


Ron
2000 Camano Troll

Homeport: Charleston, SC Go to Top of Page

mchad

RO# 4410

Posted - Aug 04 2009 :  15:35:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have to take accurate measurements, but I believe I will be able to actually add a couple of gallons capacity. I know I have at least 6" of clearance on the top, and about 4" of clearance on the aft end of the tank. I do like the idea of top mounted fill, vent and discharge fittings, meaning no leaky fittings to ever worry about putting gallons of fun in my bilge. I checked ronco plastics, and for a 20 gallon tank, with the standpipe (as they call it) and a 6" inspection plate, it'll be around $300. Plus I imagine a fortune for freight. Oh well.

No one ever said boating was cheap...



Homeport: Ossining, NY Go to Top of Page

mchad

RO# 4410

Posted - Aug 25 2009 :  22:22:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mchad

I have to take accurate measurements, but I believe I will be able to actually add a couple of gallons capacity. I know I have at least 6" of clearance on the top, and about 4" of clearance on the aft end of the tank. I do like the idea of top mounted fill, vent and discharge fittings, meaning no leaky fittings to ever worry about putting gallons of fun in my bilge. I checked ronco plastics, and for a 20 gallon tank, with the standpipe (as they call it) and a 6" inspection plate, it'll be around $300. Plus I imagine a fortune for freight. Oh well.

No one ever said boating was cheap...



Just a follow up on this. Finally got the guts up to open up the tank and see what was going on... Turns out that the tank has a mechanical level gauge on it (which we used as an access point) which as it turned out, had a plastic float which detached and got stuck in the fitting to the pump out hose! A little negotiation, and out it came. Problem solved!

I'll still probably change the tank out over the winter, but for now, It's good to go.

Thanks for al the advice!



Homeport: Ossining, NY Go to Top of Page

Radioactive

RO# 3238



Posted - Aug 25 2009 :  22:56:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And Thank YOU for the follow-up.

One of the nice things about this forum is that everyone has the opportunity to learn something, not just "git 'er fixed".

Glad to hear the problem is properly diagnosed and tat the solution is "workable".


Bill

"No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Bonzai
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats." - Kenneth Grahame

Homeport: MS Gulf Coast Go to Top of Page

rawidman

RO# 25110

Posted - Aug 26 2009 :  07:57:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mchad
[br........... A little negotiation, and out it came. Problem solved!

I'll still probably change the tank out over the winter, but for now, It's good to go.

Thanks for al the advice!



Great that it's fixed and we all know the outcome.

No good reason to change the tank now.


Ron
2000 Camano Troll

Homeport: Charleston, SC Go to Top of Page

Crownline 242

RO# 21744

Posted - Sep 15 2019 :  21:15:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Old thread...still helpful. Had the same issue. Crownline 242 with discharge sanitation hose clogged. I tried backflushing with hose, but could not get enough pressure. Tried snaking, could not clear the 90 degree elbow at the tank. Tried toilet plunger, no go.

Was ready to take the tank side hose connection off until I saw this thread. Opened tank at the gauge and the float was missing. Tried a coat hanger and one of those long flex claw pickup tools, but could not free anything.

I got brave and went to WM and got something similar to this.



I screwed it into the waste port and hooked it up to a hose then cycled the hose bib on and off a few times. I finally heard some sort of noise down by the tank, took a look and found that is was not the sanitation hose breaking or popping off the fitting at the tank so I figured I had freed the clog. Took the nipple off the waste port and disconnected the hose then inserted the hose into the waste port , turned the water on and the water went into the tank instead of puking back out. Went to pump out and worked fine

In the end, not I am not exactly sure if the clog was the gauge float or some other debris. I still have not been able to spot and/or recover the float from the holding tank. I am going to leave this as a spring project.

Also I was lucky not to take the hose off at the tank as the holding tank was still 1/3 full

My port tuned out to be 1.5 inch NPT. The nipple with the garden hose connection was 1.25 inch. I had to get a 1.5 inch male, 1.25 inch female adaptor to get it to work



Edited by - Crownline 242 on Sep 16 2019 08:10:27

Homeport: Ocean Gate, NJ, Bayport, MN Go to Top of Page
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