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mixman
RO# 25362
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 Posted - Aug 22 2009 : 17:50:07
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Our built in refrigerator (top load, "factory" converted ice box) seems to be on it's last leg. It lost it's cool (no pun intended) this past May in Hope Town. We had it charged down there for $150 (next day service, not bad for the Bahamas) which only lasted about 3 days. We gave up, and survived the rest of the trip with our Waeco freezer (darn good units). Got back to MD and had our slip neighbor (retired USCG and HVAC guy) take a look. He charged it back up with 134a which lasted about 2 weeks (cooler outside at that time). I've been giving it some "shots" of coolant ever since. I bought some 134a with red die in it and found the leak on the low side of the system (right next to the compressor). I suppose I could solder the leak, but I'm thinking it's time to upgrade to a holding plate system for the power savings. We've only got about 3 cubic feet in this little thing (thank God for the Waeco freezer!), so I need the smallest system I can find. Anybody know anything about Isotherm? Specifically, this unit (click image to see manufacturer specs):
Les, can you get these? Or, do you have anything else to recommend?
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--Kurt
2002 Motorcat MC30 "Deuce"
17 knot cruise at 5mpg (3.5/gph). Two hulls are better than one! |
Homeport: Rock Creek, MD - Chesapeake Bay
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Steven Pooler
RO# 31577
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Posted - Aug 22 2009 : 18:16:07
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Does not look like it is fan cooled (I don't know that though) and if not...I would stay away from it...
Also...You mention factory converted Ice box...Generally speaking, Boat Factory built boxes do not have sufficient insulation for holding plate installation...
I have an article on my site about Hold Over Plate refrigeration that might explain more for you but I can't post a link here...
I suppose if you were to Google "Cold Plate/Hold Over Refrigeration" you may be able to locate it...
Steve~
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Edited by - Steven Pooler on Aug 22 2009 18:52:48 |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay Fl.
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mixman
RO# 25362
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Posted - Aug 22 2009 : 21:57:05
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Steve,
It's air cooled. There's got to be a fan in there somewhere (otherwise, I will certainly stay away from it).
I'm completely with you on questioning the insulation on the box I have. Go ahead and paste that link. The only rule about links here is that we are not supposed to post other retailers. Links to information are 100% fine.
Thanks in advance.
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--Kurt
2002 Motorcat MC30 "Deuce"
17 knot cruise at 5mpg (3.5/gph). Two hulls are better than one! |
Edited by - mixman on Aug 22 2009 22:00:01 |
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Homeport: Rock Creek, MD - Chesapeake Bay
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Aug 22 2009 : 22:41:46
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Isotherms work OK. Google Kollmann Marine for some good info and books.
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Creationism is to science what storks are to obstetrics.
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale/ Palmas del Mar PR
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sbw1
RO# 24048
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Posted - Aug 23 2009 : 09:26:25
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My boat came with a 12v Isotherm frige that has a holding plate. It works well and uses very little power. I've owned other brands and most of them really drained the batteries. This unit is easy on the batteries.
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boatbum
RO# 36
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Posted - Aug 23 2009 : 10:36:38
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Kurt the manual indicates there is a fan on the unit. Check it out. There may be ducting requirements depending on the location.
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Homeport: Abacos
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Steven Pooler
RO# 31577
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Posted - Aug 23 2009 : 13:52:29
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Let me say first that I'm not against holding plate systems but...Some of the points I'm trying to make in the article are...
Holding plates are a much different animal...In order to get the performance/temp desired, and holding time at that temp...Many factors come into play such as insulation, size of box vs size of plate, door seals, top or bottom loading, plate solution temp etc...
A holding plate systems main design purpose is to keep a given box at a desired temp for a period of time, without running the refrigeration unit to keep it there for that period of time...
Basically...The temp of the box while running the unit has little to do with how a holding plate system was intended to be used...and given two plates of the same size (area used in the box) a holding plate will not offer anywhere near the BTU of heat absorption that a standard plate will offer...
Running...Plate for Plate, a holding plate needs to be much larger to do that same job of heat absorption.
A typical 134a standard plate system will run that plate surface at -10 F.
A 134a holding plate system can run the tubing inside the plate...and solution (liquid) at that same -10 F....But the solution is a limiting factor in some ways...
134a system plate liquid is typically mixed to change states from a liquid to a solid somewhere between 0 F. to 26 F. Depending on if the plate was meant for a freezer or refrigerator box...
It is also a larger mass to change the temp of, so running it down to -10 as you might imagine takes more time & energy...and Likely never getting the surface of the plate quite down to -10 F.
If a holding plate/box is not designed/sized as such (To hold a desired box temp when off) it can be much less efficient than a standard plate system that can recover the box temp much faster and may provide for less overall run time in a 24 hr period.
As you see...It's hard to explain, but installing just any holding plate into a box because it will fit is almost never the answer to the most efficient or ideal box.
Holding plates can be over sized too, and thus undesirable if they keep the box too cold during that hold over period...Freezing lettuce etc...
What I'm saying is...A Hold over plate can and will continue cooling long after the t-stat has cycled the unit off if it has been run long enough to freeze the solution in the plate...and If it is enough BTU to compensate for the amount of heat leaking into the box...
If Not...Then you will need to run it longer to attain the desired temp in that box...
The thing is it will warm very rapidly back up to the point that the solution begins to thaw...and This is where the holding period is (during the thaw, or change of states of the solution) and the box temp during that period is related to all the factors I discussed.
If that holding period box temp is not what is desired...Then a holding plate has not gained you a thing...It has hindered things somewhat.
Am I making sense ?
Steve~
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Edited by - Steven Pooler on Aug 24 2009 10:42:37 |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay Fl.
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mixman
RO# 25362
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Posted - Aug 24 2009 : 10:32:26
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Steve,
Thanks for all the input. You're making sense, which is why I created this thread in the first place. My top-load compartment probably does not have enough insulation to make a holding plate a good investment. I'm still nursing my current compressor along, so I'll keep doing my research.
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--Kurt
2002 Motorcat MC30 "Deuce"
17 knot cruise at 5mpg (3.5/gph). Two hulls are better than one! |
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Homeport: Rock Creek, MD - Chesapeake Bay
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Steven Pooler
RO# 31577
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 Posted - Aug 24 2009 : 10:46:39
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quote:
Originally posted by mixman
Steve,
Thanks for all the input. You're making sense, which is why I created this thread in the first place. My top-load compartment probably does not have enough insulation to make a holding plate a good investment. I'm still nursing my current compressor along, so I'll keep doing my research.
Thanks Kurt,
I just made some more edits to try and clarify more...
Guess I'll copy this (my post) to my site...It could be helpful there too.
Edit: I have also linked this BoaterEd thread in my site...Les 
Steve~
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Edited by - Steven Pooler on Aug 24 2009 11:41:54 |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay Fl.
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Steven Pooler
RO# 31577
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Posted - Aug 24 2009 : 12:30:45
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Kurt~
Why not get the leak soldered up before you kill it ?
What happens in a leaky system...especially one that is leaking on the suction side is moisture gets sucked in once the suction side pressure runs into a vacuum when low on freon...Also the compressor overheats without enough refrigerant return...
When working up to par does the system do a satisfactory job ?
Steve~
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Homeport: Tampa Bay Fl.
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mixman
RO# 25362
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Posted - Aug 24 2009 : 16:58:47
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Steve,
I had to buy some 134 with red dye in it so I could find the leak, which I located last week. I do not have the equipment to evacuate the refrigerant, but can solder pretty well. I can probably borrow that equipment, but I thought I'd try one more "quick fix" and purchased a $25 can of sealant/stop-leak. I'm going to have to give it a few days to make sure, but I put the sealant in on Friday along with bringing the system back up to 10 lbs. I just checked today (Monday) and the system showed 9 lbs. That's looking pretty good to me for now, but I'll be keeping an eye on it. Unfortunately, in this heat (highs upper 80's to lower 90's), the compressor runs non-stop. That can't be good on it.
I suppose the system runs somewhere around acceptable. It does draw around 6 amps when it on, and it's on a lot in warmer weather. However, a thermometer I have in the evaporator shows that the unit can draw down easily into the lower teens. I'm guess this is pretty decent for such a 12v system? The one thing I would like is less amp draw. When the unit first acted up we were in the Abacos. I had to pay a guy to come to the boat and give it a charge. It lasted 2 days. We got by for the next few weeks by using the small refrigerator section in our Waeko CF-50 freezer. I was amazed at how much longer my battery bank lasted. Not only was I only running 1 unit instead of 2, but the Waeko only draws about 3 amps. I was hoping that a holding plate system might give me similar positive results battery-wise.
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--Kurt
2002 Motorcat MC30 "Deuce"
17 knot cruise at 5mpg (3.5/gph). Two hulls are better than one! |
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Homeport: Rock Creek, MD - Chesapeake Bay
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Steven Pooler
RO# 31577
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Posted - Aug 24 2009 : 22:48:24
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First...Here's the deal with refrigerants...ALL Refrigerants !
Pressure & Temperature automatically correspond...Meaning if I/You set a bottle of a given refrigerant into a room and let it get to that room temp...Then connect a pressure gauge to that bottle/jug....No matter how much refrigerant is in that bottle/jug (1 pound or 1000 pounds)
I can tell you the temperature of the room with a pressure temperature graph for that particular refrigerant just by the pressure in the jug...
Your 9-10 psi test really tells you nothing...The system could have been a different temp from one test to another...
You just need to fix the leak properly...No stop leak stuff...All it does most of the time is clog $hit up In a system with all copper & aluminium....That stuff is designed for a car with rubber o-rings & seals to condition them...
As far as the performance of your system...Or any R-134a REFRIGERATION system...134a is good down to -10 F. of evaporator temp.
If your unit kept your system running with a -10 evap...and did not do a great job...
First off...A holding plate will never do the job in that box...but I have to wonder if you have ever had your system running properly...
Many times those so called "quick connects" that come in the small systems are not so quick to connect, and while the installer is "connecting" he looses most of the refrigerant during connection...He may also leave a leak....
Though you have not said what you have...Seems you might have a Adler Barbour, or one of the Danfoss based 12v systems...They are all pretty much the same, and should do a fine job in a 3 cu ft box...Pretty quickly...
Power consumption should not be of much concern here...Unless the box has little or NO insulation.
Steve~
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Homeport: Tampa Bay Fl.
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mixman
RO# 25362
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Posted - Aug 24 2009 : 23:03:21
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Steve,
I don't recognize the name of the system. It's a 12v model made in Germany (the boat is European). The next time I'm down in that port sponson I'll try and get the name off of it. I've mainly been keeping an eye on the temp my little thermometer on the evaporator shows me. I just hook up the gauge from time to time to see what it says. I know the system works best with about 10 psi in it. If it's close, and the temp is good, I get all warm and fuzzy feeling. But I think you're right and the insulation in the box is quite lacking. Funny, considering it was originally (on earlier hulls) an ice box. One would expect some insulation. Once I finish typing this post, I'll e-mail the yard and see how much they put in there. But I honestly don't think it's more than an inch or so just looking at the physical characteristics of the box itself. So, as your articles/comments have said, I'm probably not looking at an ideal installation for a holding plate. I do agree that it either needs to be fixed correctly, or replaced. Since I've never been happy with the amp draw of the system, I'm pretty much planning on replacing it once the weather cools down (another month or so). I figured I'd give the $25 "magical sealant" a try for the heck of it, and if it ruined the system, so be it. We'd live off the Waeco freezer for the time being. I'll probably put the replacement system in myself for a number of reasons (one being that business sucks right now and working on the boat keeps me out of the office and out of trouble!). With such a small box and not-so-great insulation, what sort of system do you recommend? I want it to be as power-friendly as possible.
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--Kurt
2002 Motorcat MC30 "Deuce"
17 knot cruise at 5mpg (3.5/gph). Two hulls are better than one! |
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Homeport: Rock Creek, MD - Chesapeake Bay
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Steven Pooler
RO# 31577
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Posted - Aug 25 2009 : 08:25:41
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Kurt~
At 10 psi R-134 is around +9 degrees...To get a -10 degree evaporator with 134a you will need to be running 2 psi...
European, Canadian, US, or whatever...Most of the 12v condensing units today (with the exception of Norcold) are built around a Danfoss compressor & electronic module....They are all very good units with the Danfoss setup and will all draw around the same amperage running.
The key to efficiency as you know is run time needed to maintain a given temp...The plate/box size ratio can help with that even with poor insulation.
Most of these systems use an aluminum press plate...Some come un-bent, and can be bent to mold into most box shapes, or applications.
I would look for a package with the Danfoss unit and the largest plate you can possibly fit (most surface area) this and a -10 degree plate temp will help with recovery and shorter run times...Yes it may come on just as often due to the box's lack of insulation but it should have shorter run times to pull it back down to the desired temp...
I have not sold one of these small systems in quite some time so I would need to do some research to see exactly what is available at present.
Steve~
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Edited by - Steven Pooler on Aug 25 2009 08:35:52 |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay Fl.
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mixman
RO# 25362
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Posted - Aug 25 2009 : 09:18:10
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Steve,
I haven't been back to the boat to check, but the yard got back to me and said that the unit indeed is a Danfoss. I might be skimming your last post too quickly, but are you saying with 10 psi I've probably got too much in there and should drop it down to single digits?
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--Kurt
2002 Motorcat MC30 "Deuce"
17 knot cruise at 5mpg (3.5/gph). Two hulls are better than one! |
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Homeport: Rock Creek, MD - Chesapeake Bay
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Steven Pooler
RO# 31577
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Posted - Aug 25 2009 : 09:23:58
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I just noted one other thing in your last post "Down in that port sponson"
Is it hot down there when the system is running ?...If so...This decreases efficiency pretty drastically...It also increases running amp draw...
It needs a place for the heat to escape...Some of those units have an available duct kit to allow it to draw cool air from the cabin or elsewhere...It also needs a place for that heat to exit the cavity that it lives in...
For a test...You might try running a box fan or the like down there to get rid of the heat, and then monitor run time & temps...This will let you know if it needs to be addressed...Even with a new system mounted in the same location.
Some of the units are available as Air & Water cooled, but will require a small 12v pump & the associated thru-hull etc...
Steve~
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Edited by - Steven Pooler on Aug 25 2009 09:26:34 |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay Fl.
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mixman
RO# 25362
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Posted - Aug 25 2009 : 10:19:38
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It's warm in there, especially this time of year. I'm not exactly sure what I could do about that without getting in to a major project. Here's what I just got back from the factory. Note that this is not my boat, but a sistership. And that "box" that's built around the unit is something new and I'm happy not to have it. My unit just sits on a shelf and is open to the entire sponson.
(arrows mark locations)
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--Kurt
2002 Motorcat MC30 "Deuce"
17 knot cruise at 5mpg (3.5/gph). Two hulls are better than one! |
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Homeport: Rock Creek, MD - Chesapeake Bay
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Steven Pooler
RO# 31577
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Posted - Aug 25 2009 : 12:45:15
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That is a Danfoss unit...If it gets to 100 degrees or more In that location...
To get any kind of efficiency, Either the area is going to need ventilation, or it will need to be a air/water cooled unit...
Maybe with a switch to turn off the pump during the cooler times when it is not needed...
These things simply will not work well in a hot environment...Not many Air cooled refrigeration systems will (if any) since their job is heat removal...You are moving heat from the box and dumping it into the sponson...If it can't get out it just gets hotter in there and compounds the problem...
That's why marine A/C systems are water cooled...They live in enclosed hot environments, and need to git rid of that heat...So they instead remove the heat with water and dump it back overboard...
Nice Boat BTW...
Steve~
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Homeport: Tampa Bay Fl.
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mixman
RO# 25362
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Posted - Aug 25 2009 : 13:26:26
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Thanks for the boat compliment. That new one's a little fancier that our '02 model, but those blue hulls I hear are a bitch to keep clean anyway :-)
I just checked the temp out there (only around mid to upper 80's outside today) and it's about 96 or so. Thus, I guess the little bugger is working it's butt off to try and exchange all that heat from the box. I understand your comment on a water cooled system. Makes sense considering all the water cooled marine a/c units.
I might be able to rig up some sort of ventilation for the unit. I'll work on that. In the mean time, I'm going to keep an eye on that coolant leak, and if it's still there, I'll have to get it soldered.
Two additional questions:
1 - Can I just put a light torch on it and solder without evacuating the unit? (I've heard mainly "no" on this for a number of reasons).
2 - You said something about lower pressure and being able to pull down better. What psi should I have this system charged to?
Thanks for all your input/advice.
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--Kurt
2002 Motorcat MC30 "Deuce"
17 knot cruise at 5mpg (3.5/gph). Two hulls are better than one! |
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Homeport: Rock Creek, MD - Chesapeake Bay
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Steven Pooler
RO# 31577
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Posted - Aug 25 2009 : 13:50:07
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You will need to evacuate to solder...Otherwise the freon (And likely flaming oil) will blow out all over the place as soon as the old solder softens.
You also will likely not get soft solder that you would use with a propane torch to "take" to the metal because you won't be able to clean it well enough...
This will be a Oxy/Acetylene torch, Hard solder job...
Because Pressure & Temp correspond with refrigerants...Lower pressure equals Lower temp...With the box cooled off you are shooting for a final low side pressure of 2 psi (or -10 degrees)...If the low side runs into a vacuum you need to add a bit...
The trick is to keep the pressure as low as possible (for lower temp) without allowing it to run into a vacuum, and at the same time frosting the whole plate until the frost line just exits the box...That's another indicator of low charge...The frost line starts backing up...
When the box is hot or warm...The low side pressure will be much higher...Pressure & Temp Correspond...
Same on the High side...The hotter the environment...The higher the pressure...The harder the compressor works to push thru that pressure...The more amperage it draws...
Steve~
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Edited by - Steven Pooler on Aug 25 2009 13:59:39 |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay Fl.
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Steven Pooler
RO# 31577
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Posted - Aug 25 2009 : 14:05:19
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The low side pressure is telling you the temperature of the evaporator plate...You just need a pressure temp chart for 134a to convert the pressure reading to temperature...Google 134a pressure temperature chart and you should come up with a bunch...
Steve~
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Homeport: Tampa Bay Fl.
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mixman
RO# 25362
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Posted - Aug 25 2009 : 14:07:16
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Thanks Steve, you've told me 4 things:
1 - I'm not qualified to solder this repair. I'll get a pro to do it.
2 - I want to let my level fall below 10 psi and closer to 2 psi.
3 - I might as well repair this unit since a holding plate won't do what I want.
4 - My next project is to get some airflow going around the unit.
I'd love to bring her down to Tampa for you to do some work on, but we limit ourselves to one 2,000 mile round trip per year considering how obnoxious this boat is on a trailer!
Thanks again.
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--Kurt
2002 Motorcat MC30 "Deuce"
17 knot cruise at 5mpg (3.5/gph). Two hulls are better than one! |
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Homeport: Rock Creek, MD - Chesapeake Bay
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Steven Pooler
RO# 31577
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Posted - Aug 25 2009 : 14:23:11
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Well Glad I could at least help some...Even if I don't get to see your smiling face...
Maybe you could send some kudos my way on my website...Every little bit helps, and I really am all about helping...
Steve~
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Homeport: Tampa Bay Fl.
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mixman
RO# 25362
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Posted - Aug 25 2009 : 22:59:33
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Steve,
I joined your forum and gave you your deserved kudos. Thanks again for your help and advice.
Mike - you might want to look into Steve's forums a bit as there's some good information there that the BoaterED community could benefit from.
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--Kurt
2002 Motorcat MC30 "Deuce"
17 knot cruise at 5mpg (3.5/gph). Two hulls are better than one! |
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Homeport: Rock Creek, MD - Chesapeake Bay
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Steven Pooler
RO# 31577
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Posted - Aug 26 2009 : 11:02:46
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Kurt~
Thanks for the kind words both here & on my forum...I look forward to helping anyone that wants to ask...
Oh...The Gentleman comment ?...Yeah...That was before I knew ya...LOL
Thanks Again,
Steve~
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Edited by - Steven Pooler on Aug 26 2009 11:03:52 |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay Fl.
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mixman
RO# 25362
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Posted - Aug 27 2009 : 07:17:11
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Steve,
I just heard back from the yard in Poland. The box's insulation is 15mm of Airex foam (a little over an inch). That's about 25% of what you recommend for a holding plate I believe?
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--Kurt
2002 Motorcat MC30 "Deuce"
17 knot cruise at 5mpg (3.5/gph). Two hulls are better than one! |
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Homeport: Rock Creek, MD - Chesapeake Bay
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Aug 27 2009 : 09:04:57
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Hey Steve, couldn't he just clean and roughen up the location and JB Weld it if need be?
Also, you got to love that boxing in of the compressor. A classic example of a boat manufacture doing an install of some one elses product as wrong as possible. And then everybody wonders why the fridge doesn't work well.
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Creationism is to science what storks are to obstetrics.
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale/ Palmas del Mar PR
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Steven Pooler
RO# 31577
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Posted - Aug 27 2009 : 09:10:20
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Kurt~
With everything you have told me...I'd say it's Not a Wonder why your system runs all the time and runs down your batteries...
Never heard of Airex foam core used in a refrigeration box application...Only for strength in boat hull/deck construction...
While I'm sure it does have SOME insulating qualities, A quick google search does not come up with anything I can relate as R value...Only stiffness and bend statistics when hot & cold (Hey, do you want to know how much your box can flex ?)
While Airex is a PVC based closed cell foam that is good not to absorb moisture (moisture is not good in insulation) I can only say that even if it has a R-5 value per inch which is fairly normal for closed cell foams...1 inch is not near enough for Holding plate installation, and even your Standard plate is going to have a hard time keeping that box cold for any period of off time...There is just too much heat leaking thru that box...
I assume you use the box as a Refrigerator ? (We never spoke of this but you did mention your Waeco freezer) Which is good because at freezer temps, not only will the run time be long...but the outside box surfaces will sweat all over the place.
You may want to consider adding insulation to the inside of the box...But that is quite the project !
How bout first let's get the system back up and working "properly" with the correct pressures and heat removal in that space to see where we honestly stand on power consumption...We will then have a reference to go by.
Not many systems will work well in the conditions you have unless you just throw a lot of horsepower at it by installing a large unit with a large plate.
Steve~
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Edited by - Steven Pooler on Aug 27 2009 11:10:02 |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay Fl.
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Steven Pooler
RO# 31577
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Posted - Aug 27 2009 : 09:34:00
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Hey Capt Bill~
I once had a friend that tried JB weld for that purpose...Maybe he didn't wait for it to fully cure but it sucked it in and then throughout the system...He had to toss the whole thing...
The solder job shouldn't take but a few minutes...The longest part is charging it back up properly unless he has an accurate scale to weigh the 134 in.
I was looking at that boxing in...At first I was going to mention it too but...And it's hard to tell from the photos...It kinda looks like they may have some kind of channel, or hard duct in the back part of the photo that when the box is closed up, it draws air from somewhere else ?
They have probably had this complaint before about the refer unit not cooling well do to heat where it lives...Did you notice the two holes on the side of the box for heat to exit when the box is closed up ?...I'm also thinking...Why would they go to the extra expense to build a box around it if it didn't have a purpose ?
They are also likely in a cold climate where these problems don't occur in their testing, so for them it's hard to tell what works and dosen't.
Over the years I have seen my share of bad installs making equipment look bad...But it's almost always the equipment's fault according to the builder/owners....Classic statement ? "The equipment Rep/Salesman approved that install"...Well of course he did...He didn't want to stir the pot & loose the account.
Steve~
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Homeport: Tampa Bay Fl.
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mixman
RO# 25362
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Posted - Aug 27 2009 : 12:37:16
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The yard is in Poland. I'm not sure what their weather is like there. Thankfully, I don't have that box. My unit is just sitting on a shelf in that same area. However, I was told the the new "box" is vented through the anchor locker. And yes, that will do about as little good as no venting at all. Many of these boats are sold in moderate climates (England, for one location), so they can probably get away with it half of the time.
As for my usage, yes, we just use it as a refrigerator and rely on the Waeco as our freezer. But the problem I just found today is that the darn Waeco is now acting up! It won't run on a/c at all, and I have to put it in "emergency mode" to get it to run on DC. I caught it just as it was getting to about 31 degrees. I've got it at 29 now, but it should be MUCH colder than that. I called Annapolis Cruisair to have them come and service both units. The only issue being that they're 2-weeks out on service calls right now. I guess we might not be heading out for a long week after all...
And yes, I'll look into more insulation once things are back up and running. Some portions of the outside of the box are exposed, so I could adhere some insulation there. And we've got a bit of space to spare inside for what isn't accessible outside.
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--Kurt
2002 Motorcat MC30 "Deuce"
17 knot cruise at 5mpg (3.5/gph). Two hulls are better than one! |
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Homeport: Rock Creek, MD - Chesapeake Bay
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Steven Pooler
RO# 31577
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Posted - Aug 27 2009 : 13:15:39
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Annapolis Cruisair...Those guys have been around a long time...If I remember right the owner's name is Tom...Have had a few cocktails with him when up at school (in the evenings after class) at the Cruisair plant in Richmond...You should be happy with them, but I don't think you will be seeing Tom....
Been quite awhile since I have been up there...Since the Cruisair/Marine Air merger they have been holding classes right here at the distributor where I used to work...Sure beats the expense for me, but I do miss going to the plant up there...
Used to meet service guys from as far away as England & Australia...We would have 100 or more guys up there from everywhere that they would split up into groups related to what you wanted to learn about...You could sign up for as many or as few topics as you wanted...Cruisair always did a Great job and was first class operation...They also knew that Service was what sold the equipment & kept customers coming back...
They really wanted their service guys educated on what they were building/selling and was part of the reason of why they were so good on warranty issues...They generally knew they could believe what their service guys were finding and then address the problems in fixes as needed on the production level...Most of the plant workers, engineers, warranty, office etc... Had been working there for many many years...
LOL...And though the sales guys had been there a long time too...They were the A kissers that wouldn't stand up to a boat builder when the builder was wrong in an installation..Didn't want to loose the account to Marine Air...I got into more $hit with those guys...And really I was only telling it like it is...They knew it too but wanted to sugar coat it themselves somehow...Errr POLITICS !!!
Thanks for reading the Rant...
Steve~
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Homeport: Tampa Bay Fl.
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Holding plate (refrigeration)
