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Jimmy.S
RO# 31922
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Posted - Jan 08 2010 : 23:25:28
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Just bought this 42' 1969 Pacemaker wood Motor yacht. any tips from the old "wood boaters" out there (OTHER THEN DUMP IT)? Here are some pictures I took and I am going to be posting as many as I can from here on out to keep everyone posted on the progress of the project, She needs paint and pretty work mostly the twin 320's were recently rebuilt and only have about 3 or 4 hours on them , most of the paint is done with the exception of the flying bridge, bottom and some varnish around the helm some carpet, and some water staining going on around A couple of windows someone left open A bit.
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Jimmy.S
1969, 42' Pacemaker motor yacht "ELENA LYNN" Kendall, NY.
If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats,, he would have made fiberglass trees. |
Edited by - Jimmy.S on Jan 12 2010 14:36:25
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Homeport: PA
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yzer
RO# 14523
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psalzer
RO# 4570
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Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 06:02:50
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I've been "messing around" with wooden boats most of my life .... nothing like them!! But as Yzer says,
you have to enjoy the work ... and it looks like you have a lot of "enjoyment" in your project.
Good luck and keep the photos coming!
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| Pete |
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Homeport: Fayetteville, Ga
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C team
RO# 24911
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Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 07:02:04
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Jimmy,
I belong to the Classic Yacht Club of America and I believe 90% or more of the members have wooden boats. We have a very active club on the Chesapeake Bay. Were are you and the boat located?
http://www.classicyachtclub.org/
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Craig
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself."
Mark Twain |
Edited by - C team on Jan 09 2010 07:03:34 |
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Homeport: Skipjack Cove, Sassafras River MD
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RamSport47
RO# 28240
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Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 07:40:04
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Beautiful boat Jimmy...if you're not familiar with Pacemakers, make sure you "swell her up" before you launch her. I grew up on a 1969 Cruis A Long El Doarado Express and would LOVE to have time to keep up a wooden boat. When they went to fiberglass, they lost something. Good luck with her, and keep us posted.
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Kenny
PartnerShip
1998 Carver 310 Santego
T-Merc 350 Mag V-drives |
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Homeport: Cedar Point Marina, Ohio
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 07:48:47
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be careful when launching. Today’s boat workers dont know that wood boats leak after launch. A local marina sank an old cruiser that was otherwise in good shape because they didnt know about wood boats.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 07:52:00
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start to find sources for stuff such as monel screws. check those two planks on the port side that stand proud of the surface.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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stmbtwle
RO# 7934
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 Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 08:26:49
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quote:
Originally posted by pdecat
start to find sources for stuff such as monel screws. check those two planks on the port side that stand proud of the surface.
Definitely... you have some bad fasteners there, and probably more.
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| Willie. She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay, FL
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 08:27:15
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If you haven’t already do so it is a good idea to open everything up and inspect all the ribs, every one. cracked or rotten ribs are the cause of many hull problems. a little sistering early on can save a lot of trouble later.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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Bill 2
RO# 1779
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 Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 08:36:34
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Jimmy.S---Congratulations on your purchase of a fine older "motor yacht" (not sedan)... Pacemaker learned fairly early on that if they built a boat with eye appeal to the woman boater, then they would enjoy much success in their marketing, and it worked out pretty well for them, I would say.
I am wondering if you had a survey performed for a couple of reasons - one insurability, if even available, and two, so that you would know what you were getting into. The launch could prove to be interesting, but as others have already asserted, just be sure that you either pre-swell the bottom, or be sure that the boatyard crew is standing-by with pumps as the swelling process will take a few hours (I am guessing that you already know this).
Have you already inspected the ribs wherever you can view them? That, in my opinion, would be pretty important as you really do not want to have a series of cracked or broken ribs that would affect her seaworthiness.
You look like a young guy, so that should mean that you have lots of P&V to attend to all that she needs. Pay particular attention to the windows and window tracks as well as any other place that H2O will or may accumulate as those will be your inherent weak spots. Remember that there is no such thing as a panacea and that all surfaces will need to be prepared and coated, perhaps multiple times, to keep the moisture out. The painting is the painting and if the surfaces are whole, then all it will take is good preparation, patience and elbow grease.
She is a lovely boat with lots of livability that appears to need a couple of good and thorough cleanings inside after which you should (hopefully) be good to go.
One of my oldest and dearest friends (they had tons of $$$ and I really should have married their daughter) owned one for many years, although powered with the small Cummins diesels.
I wish you much luck and enjoyment with her.
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Bill 2
Remembering 9.11.01 |
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Homeport: Cape Cod
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Jimmy.S
RO# 31922
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Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 08:54:28
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I will be A picture snapping fool come March when we go up for the week the wife made me cancel our trip to Punta Cana for our anniversary so she and I can get A full week in on her. I want to go from front to back under the floor to check for any rot or cracked ribs as per the owner before the previous, he said there was none when he had it but it wont hurt to look anyway. I tracked him down and talked to him for A good long while to pick his brain for as much info as I could and got A LOT out of him. He said he loved that boat and missed it and would like to go out on it this summer which I think is A good idea I can get any little quirks and tricks out of him then too. He also helped me out with the to do list, was very adiment on repeating over and over MAKE SURE YOU SWELLER GOOD KID !! Check everything 2 or 3 times and take your time launching her and added that he was getting ready to change the transome when he sold it but never got the chance to do it but it should only take 2 1/2 days to do and it isn't hard or expensive to do being A retired cabinet Maker I should have no problem but if I need an extra hand give him A call and told me that he sold it to the guy I got it from and he took it to where I got it, did some work on it then lost it to me. He only had it for about 6 months and the trip from where he bought it to where it is now was only like an hour so this guy owned it for 6 months and only had it on the water during his ownership of it for an hour or so. Bummer for him says I. But over all I think it was A good find for me for $3.500 bucks. As for where we will be porting as someone asked Kendall NY on Lake Ontario. I thank you all for your comments and keep them coming as I will keep the pictures coming.
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Jimmy.S
1969, 42' Pacemaker motor yacht "ELENA LYNN" Kendall, NY.
If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats,, he would have made fiberglass trees. |
Edited by - Jimmy.S on Jan 09 2010 09:01:44 |
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Homeport: PA
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cwms
RO# 7357
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Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 08:58:33
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I'm assuming that the boat had the bottom refastened at some time due to her age. If not, you better look into it.
When I bought my '71, 37' Egg Harbor back in 1997, I had the bottom refastened.
Boat was out of the water for 6 weeks being worked on. When the owner of the yard put the boat back in the water, late one afternoon, it was with the understanding that I spend the night on board and he left the boat in the sling. He also gave me a big sump pump just in case water started coming in fast and furious.
THe boat did pretty good that first night with minimal leaking but I was told, again by the yard owner, not even think about starting the engines for at least 3 days while the boat swelled up and settled back into its shape. I had a 7 mile run to take it back to my home marina and all this was in the middle of the winter.
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Edited by - cwms on Jan 09 2010 09:12:26 |
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Homeport: VA
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Estimator
RO# 23140
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Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 09:55:09
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Jimmy,
There was a beautiful Chris Craft slipped next to us many years. The most the owner worked on were the engines, just like the rest of us. He enjoyed working on the wood so much that I would be hard pressed to call it work to him, and that love showed in his boat.
Many, many years ago when I built houses, one of the few trades I learned to do well and perform at a professional level was wood working and cabinet building. Still is a love\hobby of mine and I am setting up a shop in a new garage I just built to dabble again as there are some project that our old house needs done. I still love the smell of freshly cut wood.
I see from your profile you were an electrician also. I am a project manager of heavy industrial commercial general contractor. We have in house architects, engineers and self perform our concrete and red iron. I have no fear of heights, big cranes, heavy equipment, and rolling the dice on hundreds of thousand dollars of must be right, one shot concrete placements daily.
Electrical is the one trade that continues to scare me.
Thanks so much for joining BE and sharing your boat and experience with her and looking forward to more.
What a great project and labor of love…I should be so lucky when\if I retire.
A fan…..
Stan
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"In Heat"
1997 Bayliner Capri 2350 LS SE, 454, Bravo III
"Everything is changing. People are taking their comedians seriously and the politicians as a joke."
-Will Rogers-
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Homeport: Lake Eufaula, Oklahoma
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Estimator
RO# 23140
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 Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 10:31:10
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Eleventh picture down, port side of the stern,
Are those young gents part of your crew?
Stan
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"In Heat"
1997 Bayliner Capri 2350 LS SE, 454, Bravo III
"Everything is changing. People are taking their comedians seriously and the politicians as a joke."
-Will Rogers-
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Homeport: Lake Eufaula, Oklahoma
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RWS
RO# 25075
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Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 10:56:11
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Here's a post on Boatered regarding the damage and immediate loss ofa beautiful wooden Chris Craft PIZZAZ
Looks like a few loose boards near the bow led to her sinking in minutes.
Something to learn from.
Be safe.
RWS
http://www.boatered.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=117605&whichpage=2
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| 1983 Trojan International 10 Meter Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels |
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Homeport: FL
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yzer
RO# 14523
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Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 14:01:48
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'll look forward to watching your progress and enjoyment of that great old boat.
Swelling the hull after launch is always an experience. I got good advise the first time around and was told to "watch" the boat for 48 hours before taking her out after a full dry-out. That meant staying onboard for the 48 hrs and sleeping with one foot on the cabin sole: they said I'd wake up if my foot got wet. Attention is required during watch as the bottom seams swell up and seal. Debris floating around in the bilge can clog bilge pumps with nasty results.
Wooden boats can leak like a sieve if they have been fully dried out and the wood never returns to 100% of full size. That's why it's important to limit haul outs to a couple of days maximum for bottom paint or other maintenance if at all possible. If the boat has been hauled out for a few days leakage is minimal after splash. Full dry-out of cruisers should be limited to haul-outs for plank replacements or frame member work.
Materials and parts for these woodies are surprisingly available today. The internet can be your best friend. Yes, silicon bronze screws are available and not that expensive in quantity.
If you have questions feel free to ask and I'll try my best. With the exception of canvas and upholstery my boat is a DIY project. The old woodies can bounce back from a lot of neglect surprisingly well but it's a lot easier in the long run to keep them well maintained.
Nothing looks better on the water than a nice wooden boat.
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| Whiskey is for drinking; water is for fighting over. |
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stmbtwle
RO# 7934
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Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 15:52:28
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Have to agree, wood boats have a certain charisma that plastic can never match. But they ARE a lot of work/$$$ to maintain.
Before launching I'd install a LOUD bilge alarm (just to make sure you wake up). They're worth their weight in bilge pumps!!!
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| Willie. She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay, FL
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Jimmy.S
RO# 31922
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Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 22:45:51
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Ok Ok Ok,,, now I'm starting to worry A bit WHAT THE HECK IS REFASTENING THE BOTTOM? how do I find out if this was done? CAN I do this myself or is it A major undertaking? If not where can I get it done and for how much? What will happen if it is not and I put her in will she sink? The owner of the Marina said we are going to pre-swell or "Flood her",,(his words.) He said he wants to do this for at least 2 days before launching just to be sure it's A good swell and I was planning on staying on her for the 2 days of "flooding" and the 2 days after we put her in going up May 14th in the morning puttin her in on the 16th and coming home on the 18th or so the plan goes. I can't start the engines for 3 days after I launch? How the heck am I going to get her to my slip? This guy only has 1 launch and his sling is out of commission and wont be back up and running by the time we put her in and my slip is like 1000 feet from his launch.. If she needs to spring back into shape after A full dry out and I replace the transom before this happens will it ruin my transom fitting work? OH.... and I have checked everything that I could see below the floor and in the engine compartment and saw no rot or cracked ribs all looks clean and solid but believe me I will be checking at least A few more times you cant be too careful I don't want to get in A hurry with anything here. That's it for now,, sorry guys just couldn't sleep with those questions on my mind and I had to vent off some concerns. I might just shout out some questions like that in the future just to give ya'll A heads up I strongly believe there is no stupid question except the one you never asked and if I don't know I will find out by asking. Thanks
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Jimmy.S
1969, 42' Pacemaker motor yacht "ELENA LYNN" Kendall, NY.
If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats,, he would have made fiberglass trees. |
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Homeport: PA
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cwms
RO# 7357
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Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 23:38:29
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OK, hate to be the bearer of bad news but refastening the bottom is very labor intensive, dirty and costly work. Yes you can do it yourself, but it takes a long time, laying on your back underneath the boat. I know of some people who did it sections at a time over several years.
If it hasn't been done, you could loose a plank or planks especially on a boat that old.
There are 2 ways to do it. The quick way is to put in new screws next to all the old ones. If you do it that way, you have to be really careful that all the holes you drill are being drilled into ribs. It's easy to miss ribs and drill into nothing.
The best way to do it, is pull all the wood plugs that cover the screws, remove the old screws and replace with new and replug.
I had an old salt who did the work for me. He charged me $2000 for the job and another $1400 for the screws plus the cost of haul-out and chalking the seams. Seems like the whole job was around $5000 and that was 12 years ago.
When we did the work, the guy showed me some of the screws he pulled out. The ones fairly close to the waterline weren't too bad, but the deeper down the hull he went, the worse they got. Basically, most if not all the threads had corroded away, so there was little to grab the ribs to hold the planks in place. And this was on a boat that was about 26 years old. That's why I said, considering the age of your boat, I hope it was done some years ago. Your boat is 40 years old. It should have been refastened at least 10 years ago.
If you can't find out from the previous owners, you need to find someone who does this kind of work and pull some screws to check their condition. Pull at least 10-15 from different places low on the keel.
Now if it hasn't been done and all you are going to use the boat for is a floating condo and occasionally puttering (slow speeds only) around protective waters, I wouldn't go to the expense of doing this. But if your plans are to really use this boat as it was meant to be used, refastening is a must. Your life and the lives of your loved ones depend on it.
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Homeport: VA
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RWS
RO# 25075
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Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 05:35:40
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I hope you looked at the thread I posted earlier on Pizzazz. The links to the underwater photos shot by the diver clearly show plank failure at the bow.
That's why she went down so fast, hell her engines were still running and the props were still spinning in the video when they broke the surface.
And that boat looked magnificient.
Perhaps a SURVEY by a wood boat specialist would be a reasonable investment/insurance plan?
RWS
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| 1983 Trojan International 10 Meter Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels |
Edited by - RWS on Jan 10 2010 05:36:52 |
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Homeport: FL
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psalzer
RO# 4570
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Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 05:45:22
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What CWMS said!!! This is very important and it should be one of your first priorities.
And yes it is labor intensive and expensive, but if not done it can result in a loss.
I spent many an hour laying on my back under my Dad's 40' boat replacing screws. I would
look into this before doing anthing else. My second concern is WHY the transom needs
replacing .. I assume dry rot somewhere .. if so where else ???
You will end up with a beautiful boat and a labor of love .. but don't ignore the
advice you are getting.
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| Pete |
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Homeport: Fayetteville, Ga
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rnbenton
RO# 31163
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Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 07:09:49
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quote:
Originally posted by RWS
Perhaps a SURVEY by a wood boat specialist would be a reasonable investment/insurance plan?
I could not possibly agree with this more. Get yourself a specialist to do a complete survey for you. Yes, it will cost you a few bucks but in the long run can save you a heck of a lot more.
Plus, he will be able to answer ALL your questions and leave no doubts.
Bob
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Captain, Sea Tow Central Florida, St. Johns River
Key West 196 Bay Reef, 150 Yamaha
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Edited by - rnbenton on Jan 10 2010 07:59:55 |
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Homeport: Palm Coast, FL
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surprise
RO# 7728
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Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 07:32:59
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I second the suggestions of getting a survey. You will probably not be able to insure her without one anyway. Wooden boats can be great, I have been out on fishing charters out of Hatteras a number of times in very rough conditions on one or another of the Albatross Fleet boats, the newest one, the Albatross III is 57 years old, and she is a very seaworthy boat. The original Albatross is 72 years old. However, these boats have been in continuous use and have been kept up to date by very knowledgeable owners. On the other hand, I could have acquired a 42' wooden Owens a few years ago with rebuilt engines (454's) for free a few years ago--but passed on the opportunity because I knew she was rotten and it would take man years of work to bring her back. She sank a couple of years after that when the owners (not the original owner--she was indeed given away) took her out on the Chesapeake in near gale conditions against all advice (everybody survived, fortunately). What you have could be fun for you, but you will have to commit yourself to a lot of work, even if the boat has been re-fastened. If you don't enjoy working on boats, you might want to re-consider and let someone else have the pleasure. Good luck with her, nice old woodie.
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Homeport: Hayes, Va.
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Jimmy.S
RO# 31922
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Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 10:21:12
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OK, guys that clears up a lot of my concerns, I am not afraid of the work or getting dirty. If that's the case I should be fine then I can handle that if I just do below the water line this spring then the rest of the hull in fall when I got her on land anyway I should be good then right? Any suggestions on getting the plugs out ? I'm thinking just drill them out with A forsiner bit. Why can I not start the engines for 3 days after launch? This first summer I don't plan on taking her out at all I just want to put her in the slip and have someplace to stay while I work my tail off all summer on her while it is warm. as far as the transom replacement it may not need to be replaced I just saw some places where it was starting to pull away from the hull this may be A result of needing to be refastened though. Maybe the previous owner never knew about this job because that was the first thing he pointed out when I talked to him. He also said there was NO rot anywhere but check anyway just to be sure. I agree I am NOT going to put myself let alone my wife and kids on ANYTHING I or anyone else deems unsafe. I did see that thread on the PIZZAZ what A bummer there she was beautiful. I will be getting A survey done soon too I talked to my insurance agent and they want one before they will insure her "due to age" the marina guy knows A guy that did his when he tried to sell his 50' Sea Ray but that didn't work out too well from what he says. He told me this guy is great to have around if you want to buy A boat but you don't want him around if your trying to sell one. But he did uncover A problem with his that he fixed right away but by the time he got it done the guy bought another boat. This guy only charged him like $250.00.
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Jimmy.S
1969, 42' Pacemaker motor yacht "ELENA LYNN" Kendall, NY.
If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats,, he would have made fiberglass trees. |
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Homeport: PA
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rnbenton
RO# 31163
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Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 10:27:57
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Complete survey of a wood 50' boat for $250? That's really cheap.
Personally, if it were me, I'd get the survey done first thing, before I laid so much as a screwdriver to her. Doing so will tell you exactly where to start with your rebuild.
Bob
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Captain, Sea Tow Central Florida, St. Johns River
Key West 196 Bay Reef, 150 Yamaha
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Edited by - rnbenton on Jan 10 2010 10:29:51 |
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Homeport: Palm Coast, FL
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cwms
RO# 7357
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Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 10:28:14
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I agree that having the boat surveyed by a seasoned surveyor well versed in wood boats is a must.
But, from my own experience, even a seasoned boat veteran can miss problems.
When you are crawling around the bilge, take a pocket knife and probe the rib tips. That's where the ribs join into the keel. The tips are most prone to being underwater most if not all the time. A "totally dry bilge" is an oxymoron when it comes to wood boats.
When you check the tips, you will find some softness in the wood. If the softness is basically limited to the surface or slightly into the wood, no problem. If the softness extends deep into the rib, than you have a problem.
My surveyor didn't do this and about 10 months after I bought the boat, the problem reared it's ugly head and cost me a lot of money to reinforce these ribs.
I brought this to the attention of my surveyor, along with a copy of my repair bill and he gave me his fee back plus a couple hundred dollars. Didn't begin to cover the repair, but it helped.
Also look into the bonding system on your boat. If you have one, your surveyor may suggest disconnecting it. The bonding system is good on fiberglass boats, but many consider it not so good for wood boats.
We're not here to be "gloom and doom" but to pass on the realities of wood boat ownership.
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Homeport: VA
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cwms
RO# 7357
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Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 10:42:06
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Just read your last post. If you decide to go ahead with refastening, find someone with that knowledge and experience to at least get you started. This is not a job for a newbie to jump into.
Agree with rnbenton that $250 for a survey is awfully cheap. There's not a decent surveyor out there that charges less than $15 per foot for a "full survey" and you need a "full survey". And when you do get a survey, follow the guy around and ask lots of questions. You will find out more about the boat doing this for 1/2 a day than you will in weeks of ownership.
Also, about not starting engines for a couple of days after splashing, there's no reason why you can't tow your boat to its slip to give it time to swell and reshape itself.
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Edited by - cwms on Jan 10 2010 10:44:21 |
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Homeport: VA
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Jimmy.S
RO# 31922
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Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 11:18:07
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His boat is A 50' Fiberglass Sea Ray and that's what he was charged him, he didn't know what he would charge me for A woody but if he is as good as the marina owner says he is he would be the guy. as for the rib tips good idea ill check that. I have been adding up all the ideas you guys been throwing out there and I REALLY do appreciate it and WILL be using it all and then some you guys are great and if anyone wants to get A hold of me my cell # is 484-894-4677 and I can be reached at any time,,,THANKS AGAIN guys.
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Jimmy.S
1969, 42' Pacemaker motor yacht "ELENA LYNN" Kendall, NY.
If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats,, he would have made fiberglass trees. |
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Homeport: PA
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cwms
RO# 7357
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Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 11:44:32
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When it comes to surveying boats, you can do an insurance survey or a pre-purchase survey. Even though you have already bought the boat, you want the pre-purchase survey. That is the much more comprehensive than an insurance survey.
I'm willing to bet that $250 for a 50 footer was an insurance survey which is much cheaper than a pre-purchase.
These days, most surveyors are charging $15-20 (or more) per foot for a pre-purchase survey.
The guy that has been suggested to you, he should be a member of either NAMS or SAMS. Google both and see if he is accredited with either organization. If he is a full time surveyor, he will have a brochure on himself, listing his experience and qualifications, his boating background/training and services offered.
When you do google SAMS and NAMS, you can also look for other surveyors in your area. Not a bad idea to interview several.
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Homeport: VA
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yzer
RO# 14523
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Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 13:11:39
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You are getting excellent advise regarding a survey for your boat. Buying a used boat (regardless of hull material) without a survey is a crapshoot unless you have a good surveyor's experience and knowledge yourself.
It's impossible for me to do much more than comment in broad generalities regarding your boat. As mentioned above I'd look carefully at every plank that has started to rise out of place: discover the cause and address it if you choose to stay with the boat. The bow of a boat tends to get the most structural stress and the transom is usually the first place to show signs of rot. Above the hull, leakage of rainwater due to poor sealing and coatings can cause damage far away from the original leak. The condition of hull and bottom fasteners has been well covered here but I stress the need to avoid making any decisions prior to pulling the sample batch. Boat construction, materials, location of screws, water type, and how the boat was used and cared for are contributing factors. Keep in mind that there are different ways to refasten a bottom and it doesn't necessarily have to all be done at once. Some refasten a portion of the bottom with each haul-out for bottom painting. Again, it all depends on the condition of each boat.
If you read enough of marine surveyor David Pascoe you might decide that every boat (wooden or fiberglass) over twenty years old should be cut up for scrap. This article does give you an idea how nasty things can happen to old woodies.
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/Wood.htm
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| Whiskey is for drinking; water is for fighting over. |
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Homeport:
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Bill 2
RO# 1779
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Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 15:02:59
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Jimmy.S...If I am not mistaken, did you not mention that this boat was located on Lake Ontario? If that is the case, then I am thinking that as a fresh-H2O vessel, she will not need to be refastened, and further, if (and when) you (or your surveyor) get around to removing random fasteners for inspection, you will find them to be in as good condition as the day that they were installed. Though I could be wrong, I don't think so. 
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Bill 2
Remembering 9.11.01 |
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Homeport: Cape Cod
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yzer
RO# 14523
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Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 16:09:47
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Bill 2, for silicon bronze screws: you're right. They could look like new or show a little oxide with no substantial wasting.
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| Whiskey is for drinking; water is for fighting over. |
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Homeport:
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 16:48:57
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Jimmy: since the boat is already dry it might be better to keep it out of the water this summer and instead of working on the top and inside first secure the bottom and transom. IMO a solid hull is your first priority rather than good looks.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 17:00:54
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the solution to a bad transom was to saw off the old one and bulid a new one a few inches forward of the old one. The baot needs to be carefully chocked to hold shape first.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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yzer
RO# 14523
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Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 17:41:19
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quote:
Originally posted by pdecat
the solution to a bad transom was to saw off the old one and bulid a new one a few inches forward of the old one. The baot needs to be carefully chocked to hold shape first.
You have to be kidding. Yes, it can be done this way.
For every wooden transom you have planking across the transom, plank ends from the hull sides and framing.
Rot on the planks usually starts at the end grain. Replace the planks completely on an individual basis, do partial plank replacement on an individual basis or if the rot damage is limited to small areas around fasteners: cut out damaged wood followed by aggressive treatment with penetrating epoxy including all nearby end grain and replace with new wooden plugs. Seal the new wood.
Keep in mind that rot can send tracers a couple of feet along the wood grain. Proper use of penetrating epoxy (CPES) at end grain can kill it off, however.
The same process applies to framing. It's always best to replace rotted wood parts completely but repair can work. Any sound wooden frame parts that make contact with rotten parts should be sealed with CPES at the end grain.
Then seal and paint the wood frames and reassemble with with sealant and fasteners. Follow with needed top coats of sealer, paint or varnish.
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| Whiskey is for drinking; water is for fighting over. |
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Homeport:
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 17:51:28
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even though transom planks were frequently doubled at the hull and bottom end rot and splitting as you point out makes repair more difficult. Cutting back to new wood has advantages. Just trying to give jimmy some solutions to old problems.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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yzer
RO# 14523
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Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 18:55:48
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I don't know how common double planked hulls were on batten seamed recreational cruisers. Mine is double planked on the bottom and single above the water line. I've seen Elco and Higgins PT and AR boats from WW2 that had double or triple planked bottoms and sides.
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| Whiskey is for drinking; water is for fighting over. |
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Homeport:
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stmbtwle
RO# 7934
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Posted - Jan 11 2010 : 07:50:18
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I had a 1947 Chris Craft when I was a kid, bottom was double planked, sides were single planked with battens.
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| Willie. She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay, FL
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Jimmy.S
RO# 31922
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Posted - Jan 11 2010 : 10:45:23
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Thanks guys,
I'll tear into it at the first sight of warm weather. I have to sand down the bottom to bare wood anyway for paint and caulk in the spring as per the directions on the paint can they want me to hit it with 80 grit and take it down to bare wood then wipe it all down with some other crap 120 brushing something or other then mix 50/50 paint/ 120 brushing stuff and put on A spit coat wait 24 hr then top coat with 2 coats straight paint. so when I have it bare I will check A random batch the fasteners in the bottom from several different places. Any suggestions on finish sanding, they only mention 80 grit but I would like to go to 100,120,150 to A 220 finish then paint. Is this 80 and done just giving the paint more to bite to or can I take it further down to 220? Directions on the can say nothing other then the 80. I don't care either way 80 and done is easier and quicker for me but 220 will look nice and it will be easier to wet sand it at the end.
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Jimmy.S
1969, 42' Pacemaker motor yacht "ELENA LYNN" Kendall, NY.
If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats,, he would have made fiberglass trees. |
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Homeport: PA
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psalzer
RO# 4570
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Posted - Jan 11 2010 : 11:35:54
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No need to go more than 80 grit on the bottom.
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| Pete |
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Homeport: Fayetteville, Ga
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stmbtwle
RO# 7934
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Posted - Jan 11 2010 : 11:44:13
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Stick to the 80 grit... it's not a race boat; by the time you get 2-3 coats on it you won't be able to tell anyway, and the fish sure don't care.
You have more important things to worry about than wet-sanding.
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| Willie. She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay, FL
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Jan 11 2010 : 11:55:59
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agreed and i dont see the need to remove paint to bare wood if it is holding well.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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oneillch
RO# 30796
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Posted - Jan 11 2010 : 12:29:03
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I grew up on wood boats and remember that whenever we got a new boat, my dad would go through the trouble of stripping off all the old paint on the hull and superstructure by using a blow torch and paint scraper. (Environmentally , I don't know if you can get away doing that anymore.) It was a mess, but it showed him what he was working with. And as noted, wood boats, especially those that have not been in the water for a while need to swell in the sling, overnight or at least until they stop taking on water.
Good luck with the lady and remember that it's a lot of work, but it's a labor of love!
Lady C
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Homeport: edison, nj
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yzer
RO# 14523
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Posted - Jan 11 2010 : 13:08:51
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80 grit is great on the bottom. For most topside enamel I like 120 on the wood, 120 or 150 for sanding paints coats. For varnish: 120 on the wood as well. I use 220 on varnish building coats.
We still have boat yards that are friendly to wood. They must meet EPA regs as they operate close to the water. It's not all that difficult to contain paint residue. A heat gun and scraper is still one of the favorite methods for varnish removal. I prefer to slather paint and varnish with Jasco Premium and scrape it off.
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| Whiskey is for drinking; water is for fighting over. |
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Homeport:
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Jimmy.S
RO# 31922
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Posted - Jan 11 2010 : 16:13:11
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I could just scuff it with the 80 then wipe it down but I figured if I go bare wood if I see any fastener problems when I pull some out it would reveal the plugs and I could also see exactly what I'm dealing with any tips on getting the old plugs out I'm thinking just drilling them out is there A bit for that of just A forstiner bit. The paint that is there is not blistering or anything as A matter of fact it looks good but I want to caulk and paint it so I know when it was done last and done right. I figured that wet sanding would just be an extra step anyway the paint I am using is self polishing. ill just scuff it and lay on 2 fresh coats I only need 5 gal of paint and 2 gal of that 120 brushing stuff. Now to spray, brush or roll I'm thinking roll myself being there are some other boats pretty close and I don't want to risk messing them up with over spray. Anyone tried Pettit VIVID bottom paint I hear it is kick a** and the price is not too bad I called around and surfed the internet got some great info and prices even went as far as talking to the factory rep.
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Jimmy.S
1969, 42' Pacemaker motor yacht "ELENA LYNN" Kendall, NY.
If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats,, he would have made fiberglass trees. |
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Homeport: PA
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Jan 11 2010 : 16:46:23
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trick to remove plugs is to drill small hole in it then run in a screw. The plug will split and mostly come out.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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yzer
RO# 14523
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Posted - Jan 11 2010 : 17:01:50
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Local knowledge is always the best when it comes to bottom paints. Some work much better than others in specific bodies of water.
No need to take all of the bottom paint off to bare wood if the paint layer is sound. You can go to bare wood in areas where you want to uncover fasteners and double coat it before doing the rest of the bottom. Caulk before painting and clean out seams prior to caulking. Many sealants cure with exposure to water vapor so allow time for cure before covering with paint. Your bottom paint should be the last thing done prior to launch. Many of these paints specify a time window between application and splash.
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| Whiskey is for drinking; water is for fighting over. |
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Homeport:
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chriscraft67
RO# 12563
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Posted - Jan 11 2010 : 18:59:52
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Jimmy,
You have a beautiful boat. Don't sweat the small stuff. Put her in the water and see what happens. Give her a few days to swell. Make sure the bilge pumps work. Don't worry if she leaks a lot over the first few days. They all do. Start the engines after the third day. Starting before that makes vibrations that slow the swelling of the hull planks.
Once you know everything works, take her out and enjoy her. Your list of things to do for next winter will be long and you'll never get it all done. That's just the way it is when you own a piece of American boating history.
Take her to some new places and see how many people come over and ask about your boat. Give them a tour. Listen to their stories about their grandfathers' boat that was just like yours.
Boating isn't about re-fastening planks. It is about getting new and different friends. It is about exchanging Christmas cards in the winter.
Boating is about new friendships.
I'd say enjoy your boat.
Bill
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Homeport: Norwich, CT
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Jimmy.S
RO# 31922
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Posted - Jan 11 2010 : 20:44:06
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chriscraft67 I agree with you but there are some things I want to be sure of first and bottom paint and caulk is one of them someone here caught 2 planks that were starting to rise proud on the port side and I want to take A good careful look from bow to stern and check all ribs and planks and take A look at that transom I think it is only pulling away because she is on the hard and will be fine with a little refastening after she settles back into shape but I want to make sure everything else is good seeing as how my family will be on her most of the summer and I have always had trust issues and now that I saw the footage of the PIZZAZZ I am even more cautious. Thanks.
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Jimmy.S
1969, 42' Pacemaker motor yacht "ELENA LYNN" Kendall, NY.
If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats,, he would have made fiberglass trees. |
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Homeport: PA
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chiropaul23
RO# 20411
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Posted - Jan 12 2010 : 09:26:27
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HI Jimmy,
While you're getting some great advice here, I would suggest going to www.woodenboat.com and joining the forums. Unbelievable amount of information on wooden boat repair and maintenance. Also, for screws, etc. check out Jamestown Distributors and Defender. Good luck with your boat, she looks great.
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Paul Schlechter
1963 Cheoy Lee Monterey Clipper Troller |
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Homeport: Largo, FL
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Jimmy.S
RO# 31922
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Posted - Jan 12 2010 : 09:41:01
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Thanks Paul i'm going to check that right now.
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Jimmy.S
1969, 42' Pacemaker motor yacht "ELENA LYNN" Kendall, NY.
If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats,, he would have made fiberglass trees. |
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Homeport: PA
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