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alk
RO# 5508
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 Posted - May 01 2010 : 22:11:47
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Took the first trip of the season today. Thought everything was running ok, but then I noticed it wasn't engaging in forwards immediately, as it used to. Shifter moves without any issue from neutral, but then there is probably 2-3 seconds before it engages in forward. Any ideas? Some google searches point towards adjusting the linkage, but that doesn't seem to make any sense to me.
Made docking a little interesting.
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Homeport: PA
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jtybt15
RO# 3300
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Posted - May 02 2010 : 00:14:31
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Sounds like the lower shift cable is either wearing a groove in the housing(less likely) or the cable is dragging and binding in the housing. Have someone hold the lower cable when you try to shift. If the cable housing gives a little twitch, it's feedback probably from corrosion. The cable and housing acts like a spring, storing the shift pressure and releases with a delay.
...but can need adjustment.
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Charlie
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Edited by - jtybt15 on May 02 2010 00:15:57 |
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Homeport: Ca
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Shadowcruzr
RO# 1702
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Posted - May 03 2010 : 07:06:16
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Is it a slipping delay or an engagement delay?
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Paul
ETC, USCG, Ret
Dispite the suicide bombers and the burning desire to kill infidels, we are a peaceful religion... |
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Homeport: Elizabeth City, NC
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alk
RO# 5508
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Posted - May 03 2010 : 12:37:53
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I believe it's not engaging. Doesn't sound or feel like it's slipping - it feels like 2-3 seconds after I actually shift, the shift takes place. I'm not sure though what a slipping delay would feel like. But it doesn't gradually begin moving - it's just as sudden as if somebody did the actual shift - two seconds after I moved the shifter.
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Homeport: PA
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Shore
RO# 11418
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Posted - May 03 2010 : 12:46:11
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There two cables.One from the helm throttle to the carb and then one from the carb to the drive.The ones from the carb to the drive are famous for breaking or getting "long".They are pretty simple to change.I would 1st inspect the 2nd cable where it connects to the drive.Lift the drive all the way up and you will see/feel the cable up in the bellhousing.It'll have a metal collar that bolts to the bellhousing.See if that is broken or loose.
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Homeport: Port Orange Florida
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alk
RO# 5508
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Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 21:25:13
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Well ten weeks later, season about half gone, and I still can't get this boat into forward. I took the boat out once more after starting this thread, and the delay was 9-10 seconds before it would engage. I've been to two shops, one an authorized service dealer, and still getting no where. Are there any mechanics left in the world, or just a bunch of Mr. Goodwrenches that want to drop in a new motor, drive, and transom assembly at first sign of trouble? I realize my power train is getting a little long in the tooth - but I've been taking this boat out every summer weekend since 1999, and since 2006 haven't had any problems. Do I really need to replace my engine coupler TODAY?
So the boat comes home Saturday. Two mechanics have told me the cable can't be adjusted to get it to shift, so I guess I should believe them. Thinking back, I'm pretty sure this is my fault. Last summer, my neutral safety switch was really touchy, getting to the right spot to start the boat took forever. I know you aren't supposed to shift the bravo's with the motor not running, but there were at least 6-8 times at the ramp, or anchored out, where I was yanking the shifter back and forth several times in order to start the motor. If it's not the cable, and I've never seen a flake of metal when changing the drive fluid, anybody know what I may have broken in the drive by shifting a non running motor? Should I mention that fact I put 10 or so hours on it with the wrong drive lube? It was the right drive lube according to the guy at the east marine, but according to the merc tech, it was not correct. Any chance that has anything to do with the problem? I'm guessing no, but not sure.
I can likely pick up a used/rebuilt upper for 1,500 or so - but would rather do a quick fix on mine to get me through the season.
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Edited by - alk on Jul 22 2010 21:28:31 |
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Homeport: PA
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Ed65
RO# 21161
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Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 22:35:30
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I have the same problem . I have had it to 3 repair shops , all are mercury marine dealers and none of them kknows what the problem in. Now they just want to start changing parts. even tho the last one said everything looked new.Good luck on finding someone who knows .
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jtybt15
RO# 3300
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Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 22:44:13
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Did they check linkage adjustment and detent ball sticking?
How about the cone clutch wear or glazing from wrong oil.
Not sure if you can get down there and listen to the upper area where the linkage and cone clutch is. Maybe you can hear if either doing the late engage.
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Charlie
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Homeport: Ca
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alk
RO# 5508
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Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 23:03:29
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I don't think they checked anything with the cone clutch or detent ball. I think they checked everything with the cables inside the boat, which were fine, then removed the drive. That's when they suggested a new drive would be a better option than tearing into mine, and they weren't thrilled about spending the next few days working on a boat that they are pretty sure is going to spin a coupler within the next few trips. I guess I can't blame them, but it sure is frustrating.
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Homeport: PA
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jtybt15
RO# 3300
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Posted - Jul 22 2010 : 23:35:25
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Are they claiming a slipping shift is gonna cause the coupler to spin. Was there a particularly harsh engagement when the shift caught? Otherwise. they're full of sh*t.
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Charlie
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Homeport: Ca
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Shadowcruzr
RO# 1702
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Posted - Jul 23 2010 : 06:24:07
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pull the cover off the back of the drive and manually move the shifter fork then try to spin the prop. If it doesnt spin in either direction when moved up or down, then the problem is in hte shift cable assembly.
If it spins in both directions when in the forward position, you have a fried cone clutch.
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Paul
ETC, USCG, Ret
Dispite the suicide bombers and the burning desire to kill infidels, we are a peaceful religion... |
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Homeport: Elizabeth City, NC
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alk
RO# 5508
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Posted - Jul 23 2010 : 06:53:00
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No, they aren't claiming the coupler was related to the shift problem, just that the coupler looked like it was about gone, and they were afraid even if they got it to shift, I would be dead in the water with a spun coupler. I don't necessarily disagree. Back in 2006, I dropped a used engine into this boat, and didn't realize until it was about to go in that the coupler was a little beat up, but it was to late in the game to order a new one. Took me forever o get the aligment tool into the splines, and almost as long to get the drive on - and that was four years ago, so no disagreement that I could use a new coupler.
Is it possible to manually move the shifter fork on a bravo 3, when the engine isn't spinnig? Does it matter which prop I try to spin?
thanks.
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Homeport: PA
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alk
RO# 5508
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Posted - Jul 24 2010 : 16:48:41
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I didn't pull the cover off the drive, no 12 point sockets around the house; but the drive is now off the boat. It was in neutral when removed I assume, because I could spin the props without the shaft spinning, and when I turned the shaft, no prop movement. Then I used a screwdriver to pull out the little 'jaws' on the end of the shift assembly, the piece the cable goes into. When I pull this out, now the props and shaft are 'engaged'. Does that provide any clues towards where the proplem is? I'm about at wits end, me and boating might be about done. I always wondered how boats ended up sitting in peoples yards for 5-10 years disintegrating, mine may be headed in that direction.
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Homeport: PA
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Shadowcruzr
RO# 1702
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Posted - Jul 25 2010 : 00:34:21
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It means the clutch is engaging in one direction. Need to shift it intot he other direction to see if the other side of the clutch is working. Did you notice if the "engage props spin forward or reverse?
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Paul
ETC, USCG, Ret
Dispite the suicide bombers and the burning desire to kill infidels, we are a peaceful religion... |
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Homeport: Elizabeth City, NC
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alk
RO# 5508
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Posted - Jul 25 2010 : 10:10:44
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Not sure if the props are spinning in forward of reverse; looking at in again this morning, I assume when I pulled the assembly forward, that put me in reverse - say this because when I go to the helm and shift to reverse, the cable pulls forward. i kew reverse worked, since that didn't tell me anything, I took the screwdriver and pushed the assembly back into the housing, first stop was neutal, jammed it a little further - now i must be in forward, because the props now spin freely in the oppositte direction as before.
Does that tell me my drive is ok, and my cable not pushing far enough? And more important, how do I get the assembly forwards again, can't seem to latch on with the screwdriver?
thanks.
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Homeport: PA
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Shadowcruzr
RO# 1702
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Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 08:12:03
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If the prop only spins in one but opposite direction when pushed aft and then pulled forward, then I would say the problem is not in the drive. Sounds like a shifter travel problem.
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Paul
ETC, USCG, Ret
Dispite the suicide bombers and the burning desire to kill infidels, we are a peaceful religion... |
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Homeport: Elizabeth City, NC
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alk
RO# 5508
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Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 11:04:08
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I adjusted the cable. Since I was having problems getting into forward, which happens when the cable pushes into the drive, I adjusted the cable all the way out - now when I have the shifter in forward, the cable extends almost 1/2" further than it used to. Tonight I'm going to put the drive back on, see if I'm still in neutral when the shifter says neutral, and see if it will engage in forward ( and if reverse pulls it far enough post adjustment)
If that doesn't fix it, I'm guessing the drive needs to come apart. That's probably not something I should do myself. Any idea if the average Mercruiser shop is capable of replacing a cone clutch - or are they all of the variety I just came from, and want to replace a drive rather than crack the case open? I could probably get a rebuilt upper for two grand or so, but would rather someone fix mine.
thanks.
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Homeport: PA
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KiDa
RO# 16492
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Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 12:26:43
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You come across as a pretty smart fellow alk. At 80 to 90 dollars per hour, I would buy a manual and would try to tackle it myself. I have watched my mech tear into a drive. They really are not that complex.
Just curious. How old are the cables?
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Best Regards,
David
Saint Max
'99 330 Sundancer
==========
Capitalism is to this administration what Judaism was to the Third Reich.
-- Me |
Edited by - KiDa on Jul 27 2010 12:27:20 |
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Homeport: Hopewell, VA
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alk
RO# 5508
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Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 12:32:37
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thanks, but I'm a bit of a hack when precision is called for, which is why I'm afraid to tear into the gears. Any time feeler gauges and torque wrenches are invovled, as well as parts that fit together more than one way - the chance of me botching the repair is pretty high. I'm hoping I can take just the outdrive to a shop somewhere, tell them to replace the cone clutch and shift assembly, and then be done. Having problems finding that shop though. Everyone wants to sell me a rebuilt drive, and take mine as a trade.
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Homeport: PA
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alk
RO# 5508
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Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 12:34:15
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quote:
Originally posted by KiDa
You come across as a pretty smart fellow alk. At 80 to 90 dollars per hour, I would buy a manual and would try to tackle it myself. I have watched my mech tear into a drive. They really are not that complex.
Just curious. How old are the cables?
I think the cables may be original 1999; but they are travelling without any resistance when I shift, and look fine to the eye. So I've ruled them out as the culprit - although I'm not 100% comfortable with that decision.
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Homeport: PA
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KiDa
RO# 16492
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Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 12:37:26
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quote:
Originally posted by alk
quote:
Originally posted by KiDa
You come across as a pretty smart fellow alk. At 80 to 90 dollars per hour, I would buy a manual and would try to tackle it myself. I have watched my mech tear into a drive. They really are not that complex.
Just curious. How old are the cables?
I think the cables may be original 1999; but they are travelling without any resistance when I shift, and look fine to the eye. So I've ruled them out as the culprit - although I'm not 100% comfortable with that decision.
Without resistance yes. I'm wondering if there is a groove in the cable housing as Charlie suggests. I have that problem in my starboard throttle cable. I need to change them all this winter. Mine are 1999 as well.
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Best Regards,
David
Saint Max
'99 330 Sundancer
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Capitalism is to this administration what Judaism was to the Third Reich.
-- Me |
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Homeport: Hopewell, VA
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Shadowcruzr
RO# 1702
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Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 12:59:42
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I would mark the shift mechanism on the drive for proper travel. Then hook up the cables ans see if the shifter is moving the shift mechanism the same lengths.
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Paul
ETC, USCG, Ret
Dispite the suicide bombers and the burning desire to kill infidels, we are a peaceful religion... |
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Homeport: Elizabeth City, NC
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alk
RO# 5508
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Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 10:39:40
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I put the drive back on last night, but before doing so, I adjusted the cable as described above, all the way 'out'. When I started the engine, shifting to forward, the props started spinning immediately. Of course now I had no reverse. After at least ten adjustments, spinning the barrell twice before each retry - I am at a point where I can shift to forward or reverse, and the props start spinning immediatley. But this is in the driveway.
Is there any possibility that under a load with the props in the water the clutch will slip, even though it seems to be working on the trailer?
thanks.
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Homeport: PA
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Harlan
RO# 15327
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Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 10:41:11
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Yes
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If you are talking about me behind my back, you are in position to kiss my ass.
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Homeport: Shreveport,LA
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Shadowcruzr
RO# 1702
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Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 14:30:46
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yes, if your clutch cones are worn super smooth or there is synthetic oil in the drive.
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Paul
ETC, USCG, Ret
Dispite the suicide bombers and the burning desire to kill infidels, we are a peaceful religion... |
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Homeport: Elizabeth City, NC
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outriggers
RO# 22097
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Posted - Jul 29 2010 : 23:12:54
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You should have a plate that the shift cable from the helm goes to and then the cable that goes to the outdrive called the lower shift cable is also attached. Theres a plastic gauge that you can set up the adjustment of the lower shift cable with. You can lengthen or shorten the cable to get your proper shifting. Be sure to use the high performance oil for the drive. Standard oil/grease will cause wear on the clutches. Walmart carries it at a lot cheaper price than most marine stores.
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Bravo III - delay when shifting to forward
