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Prospective
RO# 23085
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Posted - Sep 01 2011 : 09:46:18
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Knotty,
Curious how you remove the zip ties onces you've bonded/filleted the joint. I read a book on stich and glue that used wire for the stitching. Then suggesting heating the wire using a car battery so that it could be pulled out of the epoxy. Clearly you won't do that with wire ties. Your progress is great!
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1990 Tiara 3600 Open
Twin 3208 CAT Diesels
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Homeport: Barrington, RI
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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 Posted - Sep 01 2011 : 09:52:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Prospective
Knotty,
Curious how you remove the zip ties onces you've bonded/filleted the joint. I read a book on stich and glue that used wire for the stitching. Then suggesting heating the wire using a car battery so that it could be pulled out of the epoxy. Clearly you won't do that with wire ties. Your progress is great!
Thanks for looking in. I imagine brute force or if necessary I'll just cut them flush and they'll stay there. I'll figure that out when I get there which won't be long now! 
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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dl2525
RO# 31205
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Posted - Sep 01 2011 : 10:01:23
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More pictures of your buddies' boat!
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Homeport: NJ
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 01 2011 : 10:03:41
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Google "Just for the fun of it" and it'll be the first result. It's on 'nuther forum so I hesitate to put the URL here. It'll take you a week to read the whole thread.
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Sep 01 2011 : 10:26:38
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consider doing adhesion tests on some ties before just cutting them off.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Sep 01 2011 : 13:36:21
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quote:
Originally posted by pdecat
consider doing adhesion tests on some ties before just cutting them off.
I would think they will just pull out. I can't see epoxy bonding to them that strongly.
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Great, now take it to NBR. |
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 01 2011 : 13:56:51
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They'll be covered inside and outside with no less than two layers of 10 oz tape, 1 layer of 12 oz biaxial followed by 1 layer of 17 of biaxial and topped off with 1 layer of 10 oz satin weave. I don't think they'll be an issue one way or the other.
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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dl2525
RO# 31205
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Posted - Sep 01 2011 : 14:05:31
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I looked up your buddies' boat and WOW what a thread! That boat looks awesome!
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Homeport: NJ
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 01 2011 : 14:09:19
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quote:
Originally posted by dl2525
I looked up your buddies' boat and WOW what a thread! That boat looks awesome!
"He who works with his hands is a laborer. He who works with his hands and his head is a craftsman. He who works with his hands and his head and his heart is an artist." - St. Francis of Assis (1181-1226)
Peter worked with his ten thumbs, his two functioning neurons and his pacemaker so I guess that would make him an artist!
In all honesty the boat is beautiful. I'll post some pics tomorrow after the launch.
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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Audrey II
RO# 30499
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Posted - Sep 01 2011 : 20:00:28
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I guess I'm a craftsman, lately my hearts just not in it:)
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Dave
I just wish common sense was a little more common.
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1996 440 Trojan Express
2008 Sea-Doo GTX Jet Ski sold |
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Homeport: Haverstraw, NY
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Sep 02 2011 : 07:16:52
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I’ve got to say it. You have been doing careful work but leaving stubs of ties perpendicular to the fiberglass at the chines seems to me like one of those defining moments for future grief.
Virtually every failure I see in most anything can be traced back to poor workmanship that was easily fixed at original assembly.
Your boat your decision best wishes whatever you decide.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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dl2525
RO# 31205
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Posted - Sep 02 2011 : 09:34:09
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quote:
Originally posted by pdecat
I’ve got to say it. You have been doing careful work but leaving stubs of ties perpendicular to the fiberglass at the chines seems to me like one of those defining moments for future grief.
Virtually every failure I see in most anything can be traced back to poor workmanship that was easily fixed at original assembly.
Your boat your decision best wishes whatever you decide.
I don't even think that is his work. I thought those pictures were from another build to demonstrate the 'stitch and glue' method?
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Homeport: NJ
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 02 2011 : 19:28:09
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Yeah, those are from another build. I don't think I'll have any problems getting the ties out. I'm just a lil' too particular about small details like that.
On a brighter note my buddy Peter launched his Bolger Windemere today. Pics are here. I'm too bushed to post them all right now.
http://s237.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/KnottyBuoyz/Windemere/?start=all
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 14:39:51
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He did nice work but who designed that boat? Stabilty looks very questionable.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 14:49:10
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quote:
Originally posted by pdecat
He did nice work but who designed that boat? Stabilty looks very questionable.
Phil Bolger. Design is called Windemere. I don't think it appears in any of his books. This one was a prototype.
She's a little light in the front end just yet but there's 1200 lbs of ballast to go in. This model has a swinging keel (sorry don't know what the proper term is).
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 15:18:13
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Should be very efficient. And quiet.
What are those L shaped pocketss on each side of the hull below the transom for? To keep the a$$ end from siding around or something?
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Great, now take it to NBR. |
Edited by - Capt. Bill1 on Sep 03 2011 15:19:59 |
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 15:31:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Capt. Bill1
Should be very efficient. And quiet.
What are those L shaped pocketss on each side of the hull below the transom for? To keep the a$$ end from siding around or something?
That'd be my guess Capt Bill. Directional stability w/o the keel down might be an issue, she's essentially a flat bottom boat with minimal keel.
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 15:32:28
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I felt like "Jonah inside the whale" when I took this shot.
Got help coming tomorrow to hang the second side panel. It has to be wrestled outside, flipped, then brought back inside on the opposite side of the boat. It'll be tough but I think 4 of us can handle it. It's not that heave, 150 lbs maybe but it's floppy and wants to go where it wants to go.
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Sep 03 2011 : 16:34:43
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if the swinging keel is ballasted then IMO it is a swing keel if not it is a centerboard.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 04 2011 : 13:20:06
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You know what they say about there always being two sides to every story? Well it's true!
Had a lil' help from my brother, wife and buddy Tim. We got her done in 5 mins what took me 2 hrs the day before doing the other side. Many hands make light work!
I didn't know if we were going to make it today though, a storm ripped through here this morning and I thought a freight train was coming right through the shed!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UEOK0xkqKk
Hold on!
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 05 2011 : 16:00:08
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The first part of Stitch & Glue is the stitching! In this case it's not thread we're using it's heavy duty plastic wire ties.
Once I got around the entire hull stitching the panels together and getting them all lined up correctly I'll begin the second part of the procedure, the gluing. It'll be while before I get to that part though. Some of these panels have to be bent quite radically to get them into their final shape especially around the bow section.
Someone on the builders forum suggested using round spacers on the inside of the stitches to help align the panels. It works!
That's it for now. Back to work tomorrow! Boy, five weeks just flew by! :-(
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
Edited by - KnottyBuoyz on Sep 05 2011 16:00:28 |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Sep 05 2011 : 16:02:33
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That is a clever idea with the tubes.
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Great, now take it to NBR. |
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 07 2011 : 18:09:58
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Inside the belly of the beast!
Didn't get much done tonight. Goin' back to work after 5 weeks holidays is tough! I need a nap! :-)
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 08 2011 : 17:16:59
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Safety Notice: Five Gallon Plastic Pails are no substitute for a step ladder.
I don't think anything's broken. Just swollen and sore as hell. Whacked my head and bit my tongue too! Doh!
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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Audrey II
RO# 30499
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Posted - Sep 08 2011 : 17:43:33
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"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up
You are almost there
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Dave
I just wish common sense was a little more common.
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1996 440 Trojan Express
2008 Sea-Doo GTX Jet Ski sold |
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Homeport: Haverstraw, NY
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rblochli
RO# 644
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Posted - Sep 08 2011 : 19:20:13
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LOOKING GOOD!
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Bob
PartyTime |
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Homeport: Forked River, NJ
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dvan
RO# 30258
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Posted - Sep 08 2011 : 19:34:09
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Damn it Rick, put a bandaid on it and get back to work. How else are we going to get this boat built. jk,LOL
As you can see I have no patience to do something like this.
Hope you heal quickly and nothing is broke.
Great thread, waiting for more pictures and this time I hope its of the BOAT.
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Homeport: CA delta
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 13 2011 : 09:45:07
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I tried to get some stuff done last night. Not good. Still need a day or two to heal up. Can't let Pascal get too far ahead of me! :-)
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 15 2011 : 18:12:52
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Dump ducks and some light duties in the boat shed tonight.
Stopped at Subway for meatball sub tonight. Decided to sit down by the water and enjoy it and who shows up? A Dump Duck! Lori will tell you I have no likening of these foul birds.
So along with the cat paw prints on the hood of the Jeep I now have webbed dump duck prints too! *sigh*
One of the fella's on the boat building bulletin boards suggested I use two barrels and a plank to help prevent the lil' accident I had last week. For some reason I don't see how using two buckets is gonna help! ;-)
You know what I always say? "Safety First!" Ayup, that's what I always say! ;-) I'm thinkin' this will help me keep to that! It's nice and light and just the right size for working under the hull. I'm sure Lori will approve!
One of the butt joints on the side panels broke when I bent it around the forward forms so tonight I ground the fiberglass off of it and reglassed and glued it.
Once this is set up I'll get back to stitching panels together. I hope to get the transom and the bow bent into shape and stitched this weekend if my wrist cooperates.
That's it for now. Tomorrow is the last car club meet of the year so there won't be any boat building stuff posted till Saturday. Standby.
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
Edited by - KnottyBuoyz on Sep 15 2011 18:13:18 |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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dvan
RO# 30258
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Posted - Sep 15 2011 : 22:31:19
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Hope the hands feeling better. Why is it always after the fact, that you go and get the right tool for the job. Its like I will use a screwdriver for a chisel because the chisel is all the way across the shop.
The little voice in my head will be telling me whats wrong with this picture.
The thing I hate doing the most is telling mysely I told you so.
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Homeport: CA delta
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dl2525
RO# 31205
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Posted - Sep 16 2011 : 09:41:57
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Or how about when you try to tighten or loosen a bolt with a pair of pliers or needle nose pliers because the ratchet is on the other side of the shop? Of course the pliers come off the head of the bolt and somehow always manages to pinch the crap out of your hand! Ouch that hurts like hell!
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Homeport: NJ
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 17 2011 : 16:29:32
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It's gonna take a lil' more than a tumble to keep me out of the boat shed. Hand seems to be healing fine now. Today was spent going in circles trying to get the bottom panels to bend around the form.
There's a lot of force in those panels when they're bent like that. I had to go get myself a couple more ratchet straps (bigguns!) to keep the panels on the forms. I've run into a bit of a problem with one panel wanting to pop off overtop of the other. You can kind of pick it up from the picture above.
Maybe see it a little better here.
Every time I pry it back into alignment it slips back when I try to tighten the stitches. I've got some tips from a few guys who've built this boat already and will try those tomorrow.
That was about 5 hrs of screwing around. Not much to show for it I'm afraid. I did get a couple more pics from UP ON HIGH!
Looking fwd.
Looking aft.
That's it. Try again tomorrow.
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
Edited by - KnottyBuoyz on Sep 17 2011 16:31:32 |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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dvan
RO# 30258
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Posted - Sep 17 2011 : 19:19:24
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Looking good Rick. I have a question of why the grooves in the panel on one side and not the other? Cant remember if you explained it before and I'm to lazy to go back and look.
Was it a test to see if it would bend easier with grooves?
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Homeport: CA delta
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Rick D
RO# 32381
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Posted - Sep 17 2011 : 20:37:06
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Is that a wired stick of dynamite on the last pic... just in case?
--Rick
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| 1997 Larson Cabrio 310 |
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Homeport: Guilford, CT
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Thudpucker
RO# 10503
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Posted - Sep 17 2011 : 21:58:49
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He's laying in a bunch of those 'lifting sticks' for the turn. Put em' all under the one side, put a fancy rope lynching system to tie the other side to the side to the other neighbors fence and touch em' off.
The the lighted side jumps up in the air, the stress on the ropes causes the boat to flip and comes down on the keel back in Rick's driveway.
Cool eh?
Be sure all the Cameras are in place now!
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Homeport: AL.
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 18 2011 : 06:28:10
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quote:
Originally posted by dvan
Looking good Rick. I have a question of why the grooves in the panel on one side and not the other? Cant remember if you explained it before and I'm to lazy to go back and look.
Was it a test to see if it would bend easier with grooves?
The grooves are called kerfs made by the CnC machine to make bending the panels easier. They should have been cut on the inside on both bottom panels. This was the very first kit cut and they made a lot of parts identical instead of mirror images of one another. Not a big deal, they'll get filled and faired. I can't imagine trying to bend them into the bow shape without the kerfts. Sheez!
Thanks for askin' though.
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 18 2011 : 06:29:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Rick D
Is that a wired stick of dynamite on the last pic... just in case?
Just a piece 'o crap I had laying about to add some weight to my hoisting cable so the cable would quit jumping out of the sheave.
Sometimes I wish I had some dynomite! :-)
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 18 2011 : 06:31:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Thudpucker
He's laying in a bunch of those 'lifting sticks' for the turn. Put em' all under the one side, put a fancy rope lynching system to tie the other side to the side to the other neighbors fence and touch em' off.
The the lighted side jumps up in the air, the stress on the ropes causes the boat to flip and comes down on the keel back in Rick's driveway.
Cool eh?
Thud's got a plan for everything! :-) Not subtle but it might work.
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 19 2011 : 18:16:33
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Strapped
Screwed
Blocked
Beaten
Pried
Bent
Tugged and.......
Whipped into submission! 
My pry bar is still in there somewhere with a chisel too! ;-)
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
Edited by - KnottyBuoyz on Sep 19 2011 18:17:31 |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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Thudpucker
RO# 10503
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Posted - Sep 20 2011 : 16:55:56
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Hey!
I built something that looked like that one time. But the Dog wouldn't go in it!
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Homeport: AL.
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Flutterby
RO# 14378
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Posted - Sep 20 2011 : 18:07:37
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Perseverance pays off! Good for you.
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Homeport: California Sierras/Gold Country
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rblochli
RO# 644
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Posted - Sep 22 2011 : 19:30:06
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Sweet!
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Bob
PartyTime |
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Homeport: Forked River, NJ
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 25 2011 : 10:28:36
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Back at this boat building stuff after a lil' break.
Yesterday's session involved mixing up too much epoxy glop and having it go to waste. Just couldn't get it on the boat quick 'nuff. Next time, smaller batches. We learn as we go.
The transom went up amazingly easy compared to the bow.
I'll be gluing the side to the bottom panels this afternoon.
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Sep 30 2011 : 06:32:49
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Boots was nowhere around last night so I had to press the Admiral into action. She mixed the glue and filled the kerfs & seams while I supervised. I always say "teamwork is good work". Ayup, that's what I always say!
I gotta tell ya, she was all business. Look at that concentration!
The kerfs on the outside of the panel are a PITA. There's a hump, just off to the left of the picture above, where it didn't quite bend correctly. Not a big deal, I think I'll stick the bow thruster tube in there!
Keel sides and seam taping this weekend.
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Oct 01 2011 : 10:30:29
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There's some jobs that I've enjoyed so much I decided, well, the boat decided, I had better do again!
It went off like a shotgun! KaBoom! Scared the crap outta me. I was just getting ready to fill the last few holes before I sanded down the seams for taping. Ah ****!
You can see where it was the glue that mostly broke and it only pulled away from the plywood in a few places. I guess that's good, the glue is doing it's job.
So from there it was back to the belt sander, grinder, jig saw and drill to get ready to strap & stitch the panels back together. Guess I'll be leaving some stitches in right to the taping to ensure this doesn't happen again. Sucks too 'cause it's getting colder and takes the epoxy forever to kick off.
Back to the drawing board. Standby....
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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walterv
RO# 12640
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Posted - Oct 01 2011 : 11:05:47
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THAT SUCKS
Everything is looking great Rick, you have the patience of a saint.
Walter
Very nice that your wife is involved, I like that !
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And always remember, life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by those moments that take our breath away.
George Carlin |
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Homeport:
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Thudpucker
RO# 10503
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Posted - Oct 01 2011 : 11:52:24
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Well!! "Nuthin's worth doin unless you can do it twice the first time!"
Two thing about that bother me a little bit.
ONE: Why'd a thing like that happen at all?
TWO: lordy aint you lucky it happened in your Blue Ice Castle, and not out on the briny deep!
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Homeport: AL.
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Oct 01 2011 : 13:16:19
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Thanks Walter. I try to get her involved in everything I can for the sake of my own sanity! :-)
Well Thud I guess I under estimated the tension in the panels. I was pulling the stitches and filling the holes and was just about to fiberglass tape the seams. Guess I pulled one too many zip ties and *Sproing!*. Live and learn I guess. I don't think that'd ever happen once the hull is glassed on both sides unless I hit an iceberg. ;-) Yeah, I know, famous last words.
If Mother Nature doesn't give us any more warm days that'll pretty much be it for boat building this year. Only 50 degs here today so no epoxy work that's for sure.
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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Thudpucker
RO# 10503
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Posted - Oct 01 2011 : 19:51:46
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We are showing signs of an early winter down here. Even if you get a La NIna year, it's gonna be too cold to work that glass magic out there.
Schedule for "NO MORE" nonsense in the Man-Cave.
:) Maybe the Stitch n' Glue needs more Stitches?
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Homeport: AL.
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Oct 02 2011 : 06:04:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Thudpucker
:) Maybe the Stitch n' Glue needs more Stitches?
Just one more Thud. The last one I pulled out just before it went "Sproing!" ;-)
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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For anyone who's built their own boat....
