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Aquaholic101
RO# 17202
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 Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 19:29:03
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quote:
Originally posted by surprise
It can't be the vent if the bulb is flat and doesn't re-inflate if you open the fuel filler or if the problem occurs with the filler open and I think you have been through those possibilities, correct me if I am wrong.
Correct that is why I moved on regrading the vent... Maybe it is a coincidence that it seems to act up when I put fuel in. I will know for sure this weekend when I put fuel in her and see how she responds... Just for clarification the bulb goes flat 95% of the time others it was very soft and when I tried to pum her up very soft and gets sucked in..
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Homeport: Charlotte Harbor, FL
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rblochli
RO# 644
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Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 19:41:58
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I think what Sandy is saying is that if you fill up and some fuel overflows into the vent line, if the vent line has a belly in it the fuel will sit in there and then the air will be restricted causing it not to vent properly. If you're not over filling, then that's probably not happening.
Additionally, if it more likely to happen after a fill up, that could be mixing up what's in the tank and causing some crud to float around and clog the pick up tube.
You seem to have covered all the bases, if it's not the vent or something floating around the tank, maybe replace the fuel sep mount? or convince the commodore it's time for a new boat :)
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Bob
PartyTime |
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Homeport: Forked River, NJ
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Aquaholic101
RO# 17202
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Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 21:10:50
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quote:
Originally posted by rblochli
I think what Sandy is saying is that if you fill up and some fuel overflows into the vent line, if the vent line has a belly in it the fuel will sit in there and then the air will be restricted causing it not to vent properly. If you're not over filling, then that's probably not happening.
Additionally, if it more likely to happen after a fill up, that could be mixing up what's in the tank and causing some crud to float around and clog the pick up tube.
You seem to have covered all the bases, if it's not the vent or something floating around the tank, maybe replace the fuel sep mount? or convince the commodore it's time for a new boat :)
Yeah I do not top the 140 gallon tank anymore usually will throw 30 gallons in at a time. Do you think the fuel sep mount may be the issue? When I removed it it seemed fine but really did not know what I was looking for. But I plan on the next phase by passing it all and will look at replacing it. We are actually looking at moving up but need to figure this out first.
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Homeport: Charlotte Harbor, FL
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mlaymance
RO# 30630
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Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 21:13:46
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If I may offer a suggestion as well.....
Remove the tank vent hose from the tank. Blow some air through it. It should come out at the back of the boat (a small round vent) and should not be restricted. sometimes these can get clogged. also inspect the vent hose connecting to the tank. if it is old it should be replaced. this line can collapse from the inside.
You can also use a section of hose to temporarily replace the vent. run it up and out where it can get plenty of air.
If none of the fuel lines are clogged, this is the only other possibility.
If you have an electric fuel pump, you may also want to check that it isn't creating too much suction.
Just a couple pennies worth......
Michael
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Homeport: Folly Beach, SC
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marathon man
RO# 23428
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Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 22:33:08
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Aquaholic101, just to recap for some of us, what make, year and model of motor/engine are you working on? Thanks
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Homeport: Ketchum, Grand Lake O' The Cherokees
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solar
RO# 12803
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Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 06:05:42
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On some filters there is a one way valve. If so there would be an arrow pointing to the direction of the fuel. Since you moved the filter the hoses may be on the wrong way.
This idea may have already been thought of. I did not want to read it all over again.
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| SOLAR |
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Homeport: BVI
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solar
RO# 12803
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Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 06:12:24
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A vacuum pump used to analyse automobile engine vacuum systems may help finding your problem.
Spelling
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| SOLAR |
Edited by - solar on Jul 28 2010 10:28:47 |
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Homeport: BVI
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surprise
RO# 7728
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Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 06:30:41
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If it were my boat, I would rather have the filter/water separator on the engine side of the bulb. The reason for this is that it makes it easy to re-fill the filter after changing the element, or draining water. It also makes it easy to make sure nothing is leaking at the filter/separator, since a leak there when it is on the suction side of the bulb will introduce air into the fuel supply which is a whole other can of worms. If you move it to the engine side and it is the problem, the bulb will no longer go flat, but you will have symptoms of fuel starvation at the engine. My twin outboard boat has the Racors on the engine side, and that has worked fine for years, I put them there originally because that location made the most sense to me. If you move the filter/separator on your boat, you can eliminate that as the problem if the bulb still goes flat and verify that the problem is in it if the bulb stays inflated and you still have fuel supply problems.
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Homeport: Hayes, Va.
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The Other Gary
RO# 143
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Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 09:11:37
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I also question the idea that the vent is operating properly. Removing the fuel fill cap may allow air into the tank at first blush but I have also seen fuel tanks positioned so that the fill hose is not a straight drop. In these cases the hose may run parallel or even have a low loop before it gets to the tank. A big slug of gas sits in the loop and negates a lot of venting in this situation.
I had a boat like that where the hose ran on top of the tank and then had to climb a couple of inches where it connected to the fill. If the vent screen was plugged it starved for gas.
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Gary Peck 1997 Bayliner 3988 MY, twin 330 Cummins
It is my firm and studied intention to live forever,,,,so far I'm on track |
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Homeport: Toronto, Lake Ontario
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Aquaholic101
RO# 17202
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Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 11:40:16
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I really appreciate all this feedback. I take everyones advice and angle on this problem Since it has gone to 3 pages I will recap so you dont have to read through it all. Running my boat up on plane after a while she will bog down starving for fuel. It is very Intermittent..I can go 2 miles or I can go 10 miles with no issues and then she will act up once she does it will happen every minute or so..actually seems to get worse. The bulb either will go flat very soft and cant pump her. I can putt around 4-5 knots all day no issues. Its only when she is pulling fuel.
06 Mercury 225 Optimax has been checked by my mechanic fuel pump replaced says its not an engine issue but an issue from the bulb to the tank. What I have done
Replaced fuel lines from engine to the tank
checked intake tubes no screen
Does not have anti siphon
Recently switched intakes tubes (since it was set for twins)
replaced bulb fuel water seperator fuel flow arrows pointing the right way bulb vertical
took the gas cap off and still had the issue so figured it was not my vent (however recent posts indicate it still may be the vent)
Had a company come to have the tank cleaned thought maybe a piece of foil etc was working its way to the intake line but access was limited (had to cut additional hole) but the company checked my tank and was in great shape Have used non ethanol for the last year.
whether by coincidence or not it seems to act up sooner when fuel is put in.
Update
After switching intake tubes replaced fuel line from the engine to the bulb (A1 rated) I ran her 15 miles no issues. But still not confident
The plan is to put gas in this weekend, run her to Boca for the weekend(20+ miles) have an auxilary tank on board and if it occurs switch it up and see.
So keep your advice suggestions coming It much appreciated
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Homeport: Charlotte Harbor, FL
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clanton
RO# 29
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Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 14:18:08
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Use old style combo fuel pressure/vacuum guage from Sears, auto zone. Use plastic or brass T same dia as fuel line. Connect to tank side of primer bulb using 1 foot of clear fuel line, other side of T to fuel line. Guage will read vacuum at this point, no more the 3 or 4 lbs at full throttle. Clear fuel hose has bubbles= air leak. 3/8 fuel line min. all fittings and Filter housing passages same size. Fuel pickup tube 1/2 inch.
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| Help somebody if you can. |
Edited by - clanton on Jul 28 2010 14:40:04 |
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Homeport: Panama City , FL.
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 15:22:00
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Run it on portable tank/s for several hours if you can. Until you do that you can't be 100% sure it is not the engine.
If that works, plumb the portable tank into the fuel filter while removing the fuel line from the built in tank. Run it again.
If that works, then you now know it's up stream of the filter and has something to do with the tank or vent.
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Creationism is to science what storks are to obstetrics.
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale/ Palmas del Mar PR
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Aquaholic101
RO# 17202
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Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 16:12:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Capt. Bill1
Run it on portable tank/s for several hours if you can. Until you do that you can't be 100% sure it is not the engine.
If that works, plumb the portable tank into the fuel filter while removing the fuel line from the built in tank. Run it again.
If that works, then you now know it's up stream of the filter and has something to do with the tank or vent.
Thanks that is the plan for the weekend
Should I be concerned about running it for such a long period of time without the fuel going through the fuel water seperator. I know my gas looks good but...
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Homeport: Charlotte Harbor, FL
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 17:24:54
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Not really. Look in the portable tank after you fill it for any water or dirt. If your engine doesn't have a filter on it, then install a simple inline filter on the portable tank hose.
Oh yeah, stop and have a cheese burger and a beer at Cabbage Key for me while you're at it. :-)
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Creationism is to science what storks are to obstetrics.
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale/ Palmas del Mar PR
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marathon man
RO# 23428
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Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 19:45:07
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Aquaholic, good luck buddy! You deserve some.
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Homeport: Ketchum, Grand Lake O' The Cherokees
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D. Andrews
RO# 20354
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Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 19:56:44
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Get the portable my friend, that at this point is the only way to narrow it down, you have already done everything else...............D..........
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"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical
liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream
media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up
a turd by the clean end."
Doing what is right is not always easy and doing what is easy is not always right.
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.
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Homeport: Mississippi
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Aquaholic101
RO# 17202
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Posted - Jul 28 2010 : 21:52:14
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quote:
Originally posted by D. Andrews
Get the portable my friend, that at this point is the only way to narrow it down, you have already done everything else...............D..........
I will be picking one up at west marine this weekend, also to Boca Grande fill up a couple of 5 gallon cans and off I go. Will let everyone know what the result is THANKS AGAIN
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Homeport: Charlotte Harbor, FL
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D. Andrews
RO# 20354
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Posted - Aug 03 2010 : 17:01:57
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Any update?...........D............
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"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical
liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream
media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up
a turd by the clean end."
Doing what is right is not always easy and doing what is easy is not always right.
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.
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Homeport: Mississippi
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Aquaholic101
RO# 17202
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Posted - Aug 03 2010 : 17:14:20
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UPDATE !!! OK I was not able to put my plan into action i.e. aux tank run to Boca etc. On Saturday I did cruise around Charlotte Harbor 20 miles or so w/ no problems. Sunday I put gas in and after about 5 miles the fun started... lossing power etc.. I did pop off the gas cap before it got bad and slowed to about about 2400 rpms..27 kts and she ran fine for the last 8 miles home. So I am thinking perhaps it is the gas tank vent. Even though I have done this before I did it after she slowed down, but this time I didnt wait..once I felt it start I popped off the tank. So I have an access panel and I am going to try and remove the vent and check out the screen..I will keep you updated PS I hope that screen is full of crap...
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Homeport: Charlotte Harbor, FL
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D. Andrews
RO# 20354
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Posted - Aug 03 2010 : 18:16:13
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Me thoughts ya said ya didnskt have a tank vent thingie? If'en ya do, thats that problem, she be stopped up tight or close to tight, or you have a dip in the line allowing fuel to clog it when the tank is full and not when it is lower, had that happen to me once. Over filling the tank, along with the angle the boat was on the trailer, allowed fuel to enter the vent hose makeing a vaccum break in the line, and choking the engine down.............D...........
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"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical
liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream
media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up
a turd by the clean end."
Doing what is right is not always easy and doing what is easy is not always right.
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.
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Homeport: Mississippi
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Aquaholic101
RO# 17202
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Posted - Aug 03 2010 : 22:42:10
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quote:
Originally posted by D. Andrews
Me thoughts ya said ya didnskt have a tank vent thingie? If'en ya do, thats that problem, she be stopped up tight or close to tight, or you have a dip in the line allowing fuel to clog it when the tank is full and not when it is lower, had that happen to me once. Over filling the tank, along with the angle the boat was on the trailer, allowed fuel to enter the vent hose makeing a vaccum break in the line, and choking the engine down.............D...........
I dont have an anti siphon but I have a vent for my tank, its flush mount on the side of the hull. Hopefully thats my problem I will know this week when I take her off and check the screen
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Homeport: Charlotte Harbor, FL
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D. Andrews
RO# 20354
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Posted - Aug 04 2010 : 05:14:28
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Look for a mud dobber nest just inside the through hull they like those places.......D........
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"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical
liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream
media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up
a turd by the clean end."
Doing what is right is not always easy and doing what is easy is not always right.
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.
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Homeport: Mississippi
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Aug 04 2010 : 06:26:21
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Like I said: "After all this are saying you haven't proofed the vent line 100%?"
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Creationism is to science what storks are to obstetrics.
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale/ Palmas del Mar PR
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OLD HOUSEBOATER
RO# 9099
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Posted - Aug 04 2010 : 10:32:44
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The squeeze bulb may be soft. When it goes flat it restricts flow. Replace it with a new one.
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OLD HOUSEBOATER
Plastic is for toys - Aluminum is for pots and pans - Cast Iron is for engines |
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Homeport: GULF SHORES AL.
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Aug 04 2010 : 11:05:34
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quote:
Originally posted by OLD HOUSEBOATER
The squeeze bulb may be soft. When it goes flat it restricts flow. Replace it with a new one.
It's a long thread but I believe he did that twice already.
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Creationism is to science what storks are to obstetrics.
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale/ Palmas del Mar PR
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KinCal
RO# 15235
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Posted - Aug 04 2010 : 13:58:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Aquaholic101
UPDATE !!! OK I was not able to put my plan into action i.e. aux tank run to Boca etc. On Saturday I did cruise around Charlotte Harbor 20 miles or so w/ no problems. Sunday I put gas in and after about 5 miles the fun started... lossing power etc.. I did pop off the gas cap before it got bad and slowed to about about 2400 rpms..27 kts and she ran fine for the last 8 miles home. So I am thinking perhaps it is the gas tank vent. Even though I have done this before I did it after she slowed down, but this time I didnt wait..once I felt it start I popped off the tank. So I have an access panel and I am going to try and remove the vent and check out the screen..I will keep you updated PS I hope that screen is full of crap...
It can also happen albeit rare that there can be a big enough loop in the vent line that once it gets filled with fuel it can restrict the venting.
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| Kerry |
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Homeport:
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alliecat
RO# 14229
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Posted - Aug 04 2010 : 14:53:14
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Why not take a simple piece of tubing and run a temporary vent line from the tank to the outside. Simple way to rule out the vent once and for all.
Why not run it with that portable gas tank. Eliminate the tank as the problem once and for all.
Interesting thread going round in circles.
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Homeport: East Rockaway, NY
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Sandy
RO# 1159
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Posted - Aug 04 2010 : 15:20:23
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quote:
Originally posted by alliecat
Why not take a simple piece of tubing and run a temporary vent line from the tank to the outside. Simple way to rule out the vent once and for all.
Why not run it with that portable gas tank. Eliminate the tank as the problem once and for all.
Interesting thread going round in circles.
T/Up . x2.
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Homeport: The Vineyard
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Aquaholic101
RO# 17202
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Posted - Aug 04 2010 : 16:43:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Capt. Bill1
Like I said: "After all this are saying you haven't proofed the vent line 100%?"
I thought that when I originally took off the gas cap and there was no improvement then it eliminated the vent as an issue. However this time before it really bogged down I removed the cap and throttled down to 4500 rpms. She was fine for the last 5 miles or so.
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Homeport: Charlotte Harbor, FL
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Aquaholic101
RO# 17202
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Posted - Aug 04 2010 : 16:46:19
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quote:
Originally posted by alliecat
Why not take a simple piece of tubing and run a temporary vent line from the tank to the outside. Simple way to rule out the vent once and for all.
Why not run it with that portable gas tank. Eliminate the tank as the problem once and for all.
Interesting thread going round in circles.
My plan was the portable tank this past weekend but cancelled the trip. I will use your temporary vent line idea and see
Thanks
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Homeport: Charlotte Harbor, FL
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Aug 04 2010 : 17:28:51
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Either that or just run around with the fill cap loose.
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Creationism is to science what storks are to obstetrics.
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale/ Palmas del Mar PR
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solar
RO# 12803
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Posted - Aug 08 2010 : 09:37:11
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| SOLAR |
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Homeport: BVI
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Aquaholic101
RO# 17202
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Posted - Aug 09 2010 : 17:31:24
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quote:
Originally posted by solar
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Sorry crappy weather Sunday prevented me from getting anything done. Will get it done this week and keep you updated.
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Homeport: Charlotte Harbor, FL
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rblochli
RO# 644
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Posted - Aug 16 2010 : 20:25:00
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any luck?
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Bob
PartyTime |
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Homeport: Forked River, NJ
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boatbum
RO# 36
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Posted - Aug 16 2010 : 21:24:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Aquaholic101
quote:
Originally posted by Capt. Bill1
Like I said: "After all this are saying you haven't proofed the vent line 100%?"
I thought that when I originally took off the gas cap and there was no improvement then it eliminated the vent as an issue. However this time before it really bogged down I removed the cap and throttled down to 4500 rpms. She was fine for the last 5 miles or so.
Shame. Should have gone back to the same cruise speed and see what happened with the cap off. Oh well.
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| Dan |
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Homeport: Abacos
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dl2525
RO# 31205
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Posted - Aug 27 2010 : 17:34:35
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Any updates?
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Homeport: NJ
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D. Andrews
RO# 20354
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Posted - Aug 27 2010 : 17:56:12
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I was wondering too......D.......
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"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical
liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream
media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up
a turd by the clean end."
Doing what is right is not always easy and doing what is easy is not always right.
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.
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Homeport: Mississippi
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JLC
RO# 18971
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Posted - Sep 06 2010 : 09:14:50
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His last post was Aug 9th, hope he is ok. Things happen in peoples lives that change everything in an instant.
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Holes that I currently throw money into; ..and have problems with :)
34' Sea Ray Sundancer SOLD!!! Bub Bye.... Bub Bye now
32' Galaxy Sloop ~For Sale~
21' Chris Craft Bow Rider
15' 1970 Sidewinder
13' Mad River Canoe
12' 1966 Gruman 9.9hp
11'4 Zodiac FR340 9.9
9'2 Zodiac 2hp Honda
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Primer bulb flat and I have tried everything
