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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 10:55:47
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as mentioned in another thread i had an odd shorepower cord failure saturday night. just as I was about leave the boat, i noticed one of the 2 120/240-50 cable was warm to the touch near the plug on the pedestal. Feeling the cable, i realized heat was highest about 15' from the end. almost too hot to hold tight.
unplugged the cord, disassembled the plug and found the wires to be clean with no evidence of heat, arcing or corrosion. I then cut and opened the cord where it was the hottest and found the neutral wire showing sign of melting. away from the hottest spot, about 12" in each direction I noticed a ridge on the neutral wire (pic nr 2).
while the copper wire at the plug end looked clean, near the hot spot the copper is black.
cable is made by marinco, original to the boat, 8 years old and used in a glend. no sign of damage, cuts, abrasion, etc... beyond the normal scuff marks. always routed loosely to avoid any tension or flexing. always routed of the water. still soft.
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Edited by - PascalG on Nov 28 2011 18:45:41
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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KiDa
RO# 16492
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Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 11:05:48
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Looks like some corrosion on the copper as well. Strange.
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____________
Best Regards,
David
Saint Max
'99 330 Sundancer
==========
Capitalism is to this administration what Judaism was to the Third Reich.
-- Me |
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Homeport: Hopewell, VA
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 11:08:43
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I wonder if that groove in the insulation is a result of heating not a cause.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 11:10:09
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can you see any broken strands?
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 11:41:09
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no, didnt see any broken strand. I wonder if the groove is a sign of a manufacturing defect, or a result of the heat... also wonder if the blackened copper is a sign of corrosion which the caused heat build up, or if it's just the heat.
i'm going to call Marinco and see if I can email them the pic to find out what happened
just noticed that replacement Ancor power cables by the foot are tinned whereas that original marinco was't...
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Edited by - PascalG on Nov 28 2011 12:07:32 |
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 12:23:57
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Good idea, I'm certain that you never allowed the cable to sit underwater bit I suppose that some water inside the cable could cause that corrosion or oxidation and eventual microscopic thinning.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 13:00:39
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no i'm pretty anal about shore power cable drooping in the water!! :)
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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D. Andrews
RO# 20354
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Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 13:05:55
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Looking at the pics, the indentation in the neutral is likely from heat, not a defect, but even if it were a defect, that would not cause a problem with the cables performance below 600vac (the cables nominal rating). All 4 conductors show signs of corosion or heat stress, hard to tell. Were the ends the same color (copper) as the section you cut into? The pictures look strinkingly similiar to what I was refering to before with there being flex breaks in the strands, but, the ground shows the same coloration as the other conductors, which leads more towards corosion. The cable would have had to get really hot to effect the ground conductor that way. Will be very intresting to see what the oem says. I get the feeling the response will be flex breaks complicated by salt water corosion. Once they get the pictures, try to un-twist some of the neutral to see if the inner core has breaks in it...........D........
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"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
Doing what is right is not always easy and doing what is easy is not always right.
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. |
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Homeport: Mississippi
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 13:20:47
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in a proper 240V dock circuit the neutral is limited to 50A, but if the dock were miswired at the source that's not true and 100A current is possible so the neutral could have been overloaded. I'm not sure what other problems in phase wiring would cause, David will know.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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D. Andrews
RO# 20354
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Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 14:14:21
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I think this is where some of the confusion my lay. The circut may not be a 240vac but a 120x2vac, or a combination of the two, depending on the loads on the vessel. If all devices on board are 120, then it is actually a 120x2 or is being used as 2 seperate 120vac supplies, even though dock side it is a 240vac 4 wire supply. If the loads are mixed, different story. But it all comes down to load balancing. If you are using say 48a on one of the lines (barley in limit) and 0 on the other side, then the neutral will carry the full 48a of load. But, if you are using say 20a per line, then the neutral (if everything is wired right, and out of the same panel) will carry 0 load, as the load is in "balance". The neutral is a current carrying conductor, and in some instances can carry as much as or more than the phase conductors, depending on the application. In this case, I can not think of any way the neutral could carry more than 50a unless there is a piece of this that I am missing. Even if the dock were mis-wired, I cant see it. The only way I can think of is if both the dock side main, and the vessel side main are more than 50a rated on both sides, but that is so unlikely. In this application, if done correctly, the only other way the neutral would see over 50a is a short circut to neutral, and even then would be only for a split second.
Pascal, what size wire is that? The picture is mis-leading.........D.........
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"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
Doing what is right is not always easy and doing what is easy is not always right.
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. |
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Homeport: Mississippi
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 15:19:19
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"Were the ends the same color (copper) as the section you cut into?"
all four wires are clean, shinny and uncorroded at the closest end, on the dock side. For corrosion to happen 15' from the end only water would have had to get thru the outer yellow insulation and then past the N wire insulation. I doubt this is the cause as there was no sign of damage in either.
i can understand flexing being an issue with solid wires, not strands at least not that quickly considering the age of the cable and usage. I know how i've handled the cables over the past 3 1/2 years i've been running the boat which was owner operated by a knowledgeable owner before that who was so careful with the cords he wouldn't let them rub o the teak swim platform!
i'll strip the white and check the strands, as well as the others
that cord is used for the house loads. All 220v air cons are run off the second cord. Most loads are 120v (chargers, water heaters, etc... ) except for the stove top, grill, watermaker, dryer, and a cold plate freezer. I dont think we've ever popped a breaker dockside and i've never seen a full 50amps on the panel
i'll check the wire gauge... looks like 6 to me.
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 17:15:54
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All the wires in the first picture look like there are corroded to me, certainly the neutral wire. At what point in the cord was that picture taken?
I've seen that kind of grooving in many cords over the years.
I may have missed the answer to this but, in the picture where the neutral is split open, did you cut it? Or was it like that when you opened up the yellow outer insulation?
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Great, now take it to NBR. |
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 19:13:25
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i've added 3 more pictures I took after dissecting the wires i a few spots.
Bill, the worst spot, where the N was melted (this is how it came out under the outer insulation) was about 12' from the male plug (dockside, end of the cable). this was the hottest part of the cable which felt normal at the plug and also about 6 to 8' beyond the hot spot.
based on additional inspection, all four wires are corroded but interstigly, the end of the wires which were screwed to the connectors in the plug do not show as much corrosion as the rest. the first inch or two are shinny then it turns dark (picture #4)
there are many broken strands which I suspect are the result of the heat and corrosion damage, not mechanical.
As i cut the N insulation, it was clear that the melting caused the groove. the big question is why did the wire corrode? again I know that the cable has not been dunked in the last 3 1/2 years i've run the boat.
i'm really wondering why Marinco did't use tin wire, since the Ancor brand bulk shorepower wire is tinned. I think tinned wire would have made a difference... but with not cuts, and cleaner wire at the tip, i don't understand how the copper corroded in the first place.
I'm ordering 80' of 50amp tinned Ancor cable... (very painful at $12.55 a foot!!!) although not as painful to know that i'm going to leave some skin and blood in the lazarette while crawling in there and then having to inspect the second cord and maybe replace it as well! going to remove the plug, strip a few inches to check for corrosion...
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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DaveS
RO# 433
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Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 19:54:43
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Hi Pascal,
Been quite a while from our rendezvous at NNH. Hope you are doing well.
Marinco has quite a blemish from not using tin-plated copper conductor cable in their construction of the cable.
There is really no excuse for this, in a previous life I worked for the largest manufacturer of interconnection devices in the world...we did not make a single product that was un-plated copper.
But, un-plated copper conductor is less expensive than the industry standard tin plated copper. Apparently Marinco went for price vs. what is sound engineering in specifying the wire.
Shame on them!
DaveS
Former Skipper of the Blue Plate Special
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Homeport: Florida
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 20:02:48
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Hey Dave, good to hear from you! a few days ago, I was mentioning this NNH get together to a friend of mine, Mario, who now lives on 58 Hatt... he was at that getogether with a 24' bayliner... fun week end
yeah, i was surprised to find untinned wire. interestingly, West only sells bulk cable from Ancor, and it is tinned. this the end at the plug shows no sign of corrosion I have to assume the dielectric grease protected the copper. I replaced the plug about 2 1/2 years ago not due to corrosion but because the outer sleeve had been squashed and was hard to plug in. i always use dielectric grease when working on electrical that may be exposed...
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 22:15:58
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That is a strange one. Sure looks and sounds like water intrusion and migration to me. As to why the last ends of the wires were clean, did you regularly spray your plugs with some kind of anti-corrosion spray? Perhaps that or the heat generated at the connection points kept the first part of the ends cleaner. Either way, I'd say water got in there some how at some time.
"Marinco has quite a blemish from not using tin-plated copper conductor cable in their construction of the cable."
The vast majority of shore cord wires are not, or at least were not, tinned from what I've seen over the years. So I would hardly call out just Marinco on that.
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Great, now take it to NBR. |
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 06:52:05
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Indeed very odd. Maybe the cable was dunked a few years ago but still strange to have corrosion extending that far back
I check and clean the contacts and put some dielectric grease once in a while but I don't open them up so the only protection the end of the wires had was the dielectric grease applied to the wire when the plug was replaced a year or two ago
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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GeeBee
RO# 385
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 07:15:23
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My guess is about 15' from the plug was always or often the lowest spot. As moisture entered the strands, because no plug is air tight, moisture is wicked and found its way always to a low spot and this is where corrosion set up shop. See this a lot in aircraft when we go looking for a bad wire. Also on the control cables of sea planes. Look where it sags is usually where the wire strands will be corroded. If it was on a glend, then I bet that spot was often on the bottom of the reel, or it was a spot where it usually sags when you are hooked up.
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"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."... Margaret Thatcher
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Homeport: Lake Lanier, GA
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 07:16:35
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I suspect that the corrosion caused embrittlement and that lead to the strands breaking under normal use. Perhaps the original seller or dealer allowed the cable to sit in the water prior to the seller you met. 12' from the end does fit for a loop in the water.
Are the strands near the break brittle? Marinco should be able to look at those PIX and supply some ideas.
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Bruce
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Edited by - pdecat on Nov 29 2011 07:18:15 |
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 07:41:44
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Extremely brittle...
What makes me reject the dip in water theory is that I couldn t find any break in the outer insulation and the insulation on the 4 wires is spotless except on the burned N obviously. I just don't see how water could get in thru the plug either. Plugs are always angled up so water would have to go up the cable under the sleeve/cover.
The only way I can see water getting into the plug would be bad seal on the chrome cap as they are located on the bottom step of the swim platform and under some conditions water could slosh up the 8' platform. Only possible scenario I can imagine. I always close them tightly and because of how the boat is operated (at least since I ve been on) I m the only one handling the cords
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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KnottyBuoyz
RO# 20406
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 07:51:48
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Have you approached Marineco with this Pascal? It'd be interesting to see what they have to say about it.
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Yours Aye!
Rick
"It's not the boat "you built" until you've sworn at it, bled on it, sweated over it and cried beside it!" - I just made that up! |
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Homeport: Iroquois, ON
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 07:57:57
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Emailed them yesterday...
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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L. Keith
RO# 1615
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 08:00:34
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Good thing you caught the hot spot before it caused a boat Bar-B-Que. Marinco equipment, not properly installed and properly maintained has cause many a boat to burn. Are any of the wire strand jackets or the shore power cable jacket stamped with UL, CFR or any other approval? Where is the shore power cable stowed after the Glen system pulls in on board? Reel or locker? Does the shore power cord kink when stowed? What is the ambient temperature of where the shore power cable is stowed on the vessel? Good luck getting any answers out of Marinco.
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Homeport: N. Gulf of Mexico
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 09:01:43
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I dont think water migrated from the end but from that section being imersed. IMO the covering or the individual wire insulation is not intended to be submerged for any lenght of time. I have always suspected that those power cords drooping into the water cause stray current after a while.
When youget an answer from Marinco this thread should become a sticky for all those folks who think power cords can soak.
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Bruce
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Edited by - pdecat on Nov 29 2011 09:13:12 |
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 09:35:01
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I agree Bruce... That s why I m anal about keeping cords out of the water, ironic that I took some heat here a couple of years ago when I posted a picture and started a thread on careless boaters...
Keith, both cords are stored in the tubs located in the lazarette, no heat issues. They retract easily, no kink, nothing. I ve seen cords which look like a corkscrew, not these...
Just got this from marinco...
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I sent the photos and email on to engineering and they said they had not seen anything like this before and would not know how it would happen. Since the engineer has been doing this for 20 years. I would have to say that your other cable will be fine as this is a very rare occurrence.
-----
Not a surprising response...
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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L. Keith
RO# 1615
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 09:40:44
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What do the ends of the broken/fractured strands look like? Get a magnifier viewer and inspect closely. The condition of the ends will tell the tell.
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Homeport: N. Gulf of Mexico
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 10:22:24
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quote:
Originally posted by pdecat
I dont think water migrated from the end but from that section being imersed. IMO the covering or the individual wire insulation is not intended to be submerged for any lenght of time. I have always suspected that those power cords drooping into the water cause stray current after a while.
When youget an answer from Marinco this thread should become a sticky for all those folks who think power cords can soak.
I disagree. This looks like a classic case of water intrusion and migration from the ends to me.
I have a real hard time believing water migrated through the apparently undamaged outer layer of yellow insulation and then through the apparently undamaged insulation of at least 3 out of 4 other wires with out leaving any evidence on the white plastic filler strands between the wires. I'd say the dialectic grease migrated back down the wires a bit and then protected those strands from the water and perhaps helped it migrate on back into the wires.
The cord could have been dipped in water before you ever got it or without your knowledge. If the outer yellow insulation and the individual insulation on each wire was undamaged it's the only thing that makes sense to me.
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Great, now take it to NBR. |
Edited by - Capt. Bill1 on Nov 29 2011 17:56:26 |
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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stmbtwle
RO# 7934
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 11:05:49
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I don't think it was water intrusion, but overloading of the neutral as Bruce and DAndrews describe.
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| Willie. She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay, FL
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 11:42:01
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The way to get some idea if it came from the ends is to remove insulation all the way. If it bright copper then it didnt migrate if it is black then we dont really know.
Disappointing response from Marinco.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 12:01:46
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Black all the way from the plug end, 15' of corrosion across all 4 wires, except the first couple of inches which protected by the grease
Since I don't recall the ends bring black when I replaced the plug, I am starting to believe that the damage is recent. Dielectric grease prevents corrosion but obviously doesn't reverse it I m going to carefully inspect the seals in the covers and look on the back side for evidence of water
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 12:06:47
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Then I think bill is correct, it came from the end.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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GeeBee
RO# 385
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 16:19:35
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Gentlemen, there is no such thing as an air tight connection for a wire unless it is certified vapor tight fixture. Years of use in a atmosphere with high relative humidity, wire heating up, then being cooled down with moist atmosphere is going to create condensation. Don't care what you do or how much grease or goop you put on it.
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"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."... Margaret Thatcher
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Homeport: Lake Lanier, GA
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SCORPIO
RO# 4810
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 17:35:38
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Interesting reading. Good thing you found this before it became a real problem. I have a question, what is the lifespan of the average shore power cord (30Amp, 120 volt), that is left connected to the dock/boat all season long in an open slip? This basically describes my set up. The cord is of unkown age, came with the boat when I purchased her in 2008, although the cord looks fairly new, brite yellow insulation. Is it a good idea to periodically replace these? My cord is fastened to the dock with those velcro straps to keep it secure and not a tripping hazard, but due to our docks being fixed and the tides occasionally overtopping them, the cord is subjected to short duration submersions in salt water, no way to prevent it unless the cord is removed and wraped up. This is easier said than done since I'm not there all the time. I'm a bit paranoid about fire and shock associated with shore power cords so I'd like to stay on top of things and not let a problem develope. I'm thinking that making a new cord from bulk tinned Anchor cable would be a good winter project for an evening.
Thanks
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| Chris USPS AP |
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Homeport: Lewes, Delaware
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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 Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 17:52:49
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quote:
Originally posted by stmbtwle
I don't think it was water intrusion, but overloading of the neutral as Bruce and DAndrews describe.
How could over loading the neutral cause the other 3 wire to corrode?
And why would the neutral be over loaded?
What do you figure the everyday load on that cord is Pascal?
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Great, now take it to NBR. |
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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D. Andrews
RO# 20354
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 18:12:13
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I have seen this countless times, and on cables just like this, and no where near salt or fresh water. What I see in the pictures and description is classic fatigue, complicated by loading. The loading created heat, causing the other conductors in the cable to begin to loose their varnish coating, just not enough to damage the outer insulation. Once the strands begin to break, this causes even more heat and even more loading on the remaining wires, thus causing the outer insulation to break down. This did not happen yesterday, but over time. The cable is 8 years old if I remember right, even being careful how it is handled, you can not change mother nature. The vessel is going to move up and down almost continually. This causes the copper to flex ever so slightly, eventually leading to failure. I might even have a section of cable in the shop that looks just like this. I will take a look this week end and if I do, I will send you pictures of it. I usually only kept the good sections and threw away the bad.
Corrosion, could be a factor, but at best a small one. I have seen many wire and cables corrode over time from very harsh chemicals (sulfuric acid, methane gas, chlorine, etc) but they did not fail due to the corrosion, nor did the strands break. The eventual end was loss of conductivity at the ends, and then preventative replacement. I think in the long run, thank your lucky stars, try to rebalance the loads on this cable to lower the neutral load and repair or replace the cable............D.........
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"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
Doing what is right is not always easy and doing what is easy is not always right.
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. |
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Homeport: Mississippi
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 18:14:12
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this is the house shore power, i'd say average 20 to 25 amps on each leg, occasionally more when cooking but i've never tripped the breakers or seen over 40amps for any significant time.
again this cord is only 8 years old, 3 1/2 of which saw use only in winter since the boat is in transit/anchored or on a mooring durin summer. The 50 amp cord on my own boat is unlikely to be original :) but it was weathered when i bought the boat 8 years ago. I'd say that 10 to 15 year old cords arent unusual.
Got another email from Marinco saying they're interested in looking at the cord, i'm going to send that section in
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 23:09:39
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quote:
Originally posted by PascalG
this is the house shore power, i'd say average 20 to 25 amps on each leg, occasionally more when cooking but i've never tripped the breakers or seen over 40amps for any significant time.
So much for over loading. Unless it was done before your owner bought the boat.
This cable is off the Johnson right? Which was bought used? If so this damage, whether water, flex or overload related, could have happened before the current owner bought the boat and just now reared it's head.
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Great, now take it to NBR. |
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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L. Keith
RO# 1615
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Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 08:03:07
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Don't discount the 90 degree bend that the cord makes every time it is drawn back into the Glen unit and the cumulative effect of repetitive heating cycles while using the cord with sections of it coiled in a closed tub.
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Homeport: N. Gulf of Mexico
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 08:10:47
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Keith:
That is the dock end so it gets the bigger radius bend, furthermore the discoloration extends to the plug and that section is not bent.
Pascal:
I wonder if there is something in the position of the Glen. opening that allows water to enter while the cord is stored. All the conditions for water entry would be right. Plug not sealed, plug facing outward, probably lower down on the boat, possible rain entry point.
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Bruce
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Edited by - pdecat on Nov 30 2011 08:48:41 |
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 09:32:42
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Bill, yes, that's on the Johnson. Prev. owner ran the boat and was picky about cords, but you never know...
Keith, possible but then these failures would be common and there are many much older Glends out there.
Bruce, as i mentioned earlier, water coming in when cable is retracted is at the top of my list since the inlet covers are on the lower step at the stern. the platform is 8' long and fairly high but water can slosh in depending on conditions. I will ispect the seals and look for evidence of leakage inside.
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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D. Andrews
RO# 20354
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Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 18:33:20
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Think about that just a minute, IF it were water intrusion, it would have to enter the cable (possible) which would be at the end of the cable. Then, it would have to travel around and around and around, defying all the laws of gravity untill it just decided to settle in this one section and attack it, and not the rest of the cord that it had to travel through to get there. The very end of the cable would have been attacked first, and would show extream signs of corosion. Even if the end was covered in grease. So far on the unlikely end. I would not spend much time looking for a water entry point, unless the cable was damaged near the point of failier. I hope I can find a piece of o-flex cable this week end ( cable designed to flex to extream's ) that failed due to flex hardening.......D..........
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"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
Doing what is right is not always easy and doing what is easy is not always right.
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. |
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Homeport: Mississippi
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meide
RO# 13472
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Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 19:43:01
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The overloading theory doesn't seem to make sense since all the conductors were discolored. Unless Pascal had a serious electrical problem on his boat there should have been no current on the ground line and therefore it should never have overheated.
Any recurrent water intrusion could have easily progressed through the entire cabel by capillary action. Water would not have simply remained at the low points.
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Homeport: Pasadena MD
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boatbum
RO# 36
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Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 07:15:12
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How about the cable is stretched when it is pulled back in. If you don't turn off the reel before the connector lands on the base of the enclosure or cable egress, the cable will be stretched thus snapping some strands.
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| It's easy to be a liberal when you have tons of cash, or, you really need it. |
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Homeport:
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 07:27:30
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Pascal: When you opened the cable did you find a point at which the discoration of the wires stopped or was the full length discolored?
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Bruce
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Edited by - pdecat on Dec 01 2011 08:23:13 |
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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boatbum
RO# 36
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Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 09:32:30
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The oxidation will be encouraged by heat but if salt was getting in, I would expect some corrosion from the connector all the way to the hot spot.
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| It's easy to be a liberal when you have tons of cash, or, you really need it. |
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Homeport:
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 17:47:43
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no stretching as there are limit switches and they work. yes, wires show corrosion all the way thru, i will see up to what point when i replace the rest of the cable
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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boatcomfort
RO# 32076
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Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 18:48:40
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I would replace it. That's the safest way.
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Homeport: New york
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 22:37:25
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quote:
Originally posted by D. Andrews
Think about that just a minute, IF it were water intrusion, it would have to enter the cable (possible) which would be at the end of the cable. Then, it would have to travel around and around and around, defying all the laws of gravity untill it just decided to settle in this one section and attack it, and not the rest of the cord that it had to travel through to get there. The very end of the cable would have been attacked first, and would show extream signs of corosion.
If it's not corrosion from water getting in from an end and wicking on down the wire strands, explain how 4 individually insulated wires located with in a larger insulated outer casing none of which has any signs of damage to their insulation could become corroded?
In my opinion this cord got a very good dunking at some point in it's life. Perhaps as I stated before the previous owner dunked it. In fact it could have happened at the factory or even sitting around some where before it ever came to the factory.
I really don't see much of a mystery here now that Pascal has posted more pictures.
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Great, now take it to NBR. |
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 05:47:44
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With all the wires affected for the full length work hardening is unlikely as is overloading, leaving water as Bill said.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 14:54:00
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Just to clarify, when I stated "In fact it could have happened at the factory or even sitting around some where before it ever came to the factory." I was referring to the boat manufacturers factory not the cable manufacturer's factory.
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Great, now take it to NBR. |
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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boatbum
RO# 36
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Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 15:26:53
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Could also be heat cycles pumping the water in. Consider that an out drive will run hot and push oil out the seal. When it cools down, a vacuum can form and pull water in (depending on the drive) if it is not vented etc..
Wires that get hot will oxidize like this. Water/moisture may not be present.
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| It's easy to be a liberal when you have tons of cash, or, you really need it. |
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Homeport:
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© 2010 BoaterEd, Inc. |
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Failed shorepower cord, autopsy pics.
