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Mike Dzurko
RO# 11395
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 Posted - Feb 26 2012 : 08:37:59
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Hi All,
Everyone here always brings interesting and new ideas to the table, so here goes:
My son is looking to buy his first boat. He'll be 30 in May. He wants it to be light enough to easily tow with his Pathfinder and as gas efficient as possible. He's pretty much settled on a 1999 Searay 19' with a dry weight of around 3000 lbs. The problem to me is, there aren't that many of these around, but if he moves up to a 21-23' there are many more choices. However, the weights on most of those are significantly higher and they have 5.0 or 5.7 ltr engines as opposed to the 4.3 ltr in the 19'. So the real questions I guess are, 1) Is the added weight really pushing it for towing with the Pathfinder and 2) Is fuel use in the boat going to be significantly higher going up that much in size? Any and all perspectives are appreciated!
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| Carver 638 Santego |
Homeport: La Crosse, WI
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boatcomfort
RO# 32076
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Posted - Feb 26 2012 : 08:45:26
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I have a 21Searay cuddy 1987 6 cylinders in very good shape. NY 9144098006
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Homeport: New york
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Thudpucker
RO# 10503
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Posted - Feb 26 2012 : 09:11:20
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Get the kid to tow somebody's 24 etc for a few miles and see how it stops n' turns.
I towed a heavy 24 and a 29 with a F-150 regularly for Years in AK.
I towed the 24 with my Small Diesel pickup over mountains and only felt a problem on stopping.
Brakes on Trailer would make him feel better.
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Homeport: AL.
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Mike Dzurko
RO# 11395
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Posted - Feb 26 2012 : 09:54:51
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boatcomfort, thanks, but I know he's only interested in something within 2-4 hours of here (La Crosse WI).
Thudpucker, the 19' he's looking at does have brakes on the trailer, and I agree, they are a must with anything in this size range. I don't know of anyone off hand who has a boat that size locally to try, but I'll mention it to him . . . good idea!
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| Carver 638 Santego |
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Homeport: La Crosse, WI
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pocket change
RO# 31212
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Posted - Feb 26 2012 : 11:54:53
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What's the tow rating of the Pathfinder? The weight of the towed load should be less than that. I am leaving for NY from FL this week towing my 18' stern drive boat. 1425 miles. My Jeep Liberty has a tow rating of 5000 lbs and the boat and trailer is 3600 lbs. Single axle trailer has brakes. You should have the boat and trailer weighed at a truck scale. This is the 12th year doing a round trip to FL and back. Previous vehicle was an Explorer also with a 5000 lb tow rating.
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Homeport: stony point bay marina ny
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cpro
RO# 12387
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Posted - Feb 26 2012 : 12:51:05
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You won't regret the larger boat. Been there.
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Homeport:
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dancerscap
RO# 20150
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Posted - Feb 26 2012 : 14:23:02
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If he's on the 19 alone the 4.3 will be adequate, but that's not much fun. With the family and/or friends aboard the 4.3 will be a dog, and cost more to operate. Additionally the extra weight and length will make a much morae comfortable and safe ride. Besides, a 19 foot cuddy will seem tiny with more than two people aboard. Go with the bigger boat, and the fuel burn difference will be justified.
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Homeport: Hudson,Fl.
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Veebyes
RO# 11224
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Posted - Feb 26 2012 : 14:40:41
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We started with a 21 cuddy. Great for our years BC (before children). Every Saturday night we were out in it. wonderful starter boat. The panel on the inside of your sons vehicle front door should give its tow ratings.
There are two types of cuddy. The cuddy like mine & the walk around. The nice thing about mine was that I could sit up straight in the cabin.
The box that the helm seat is on contained storage, an icebox & a single burner alcohol stove.
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Homeport: Bermuda
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earl
RO# 10058
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Posted - Feb 26 2012 : 15:43:06
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Mike,
Since you said any and all perspectives are appreciated I would recommend going with a boat that has an outboard motor. Have owned one with twin inboards, one with inboard/outboard and two with outboards. IMO anything under 30 feet should have outboards.
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2006 Century 1801
115 Yamaha |
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Homeport: Gulf Coast, Florida
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Feb 26 2012 : 16:28:09
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much less risk towing outboards.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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pocket change
RO# 31212
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Posted - Feb 26 2012 : 18:43:11
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quote:
Originally posted by pdecat
much less risk towing outboards.
Why?
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Homeport: stony point bay marina ny
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rwilhite
RO# 3478
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Posted - Feb 27 2012 : 08:16:03
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I don't mean any disrespect, nor do I want to start an argument with dancerscap, but I do disagree with his statement that the 4.3L would be a dog with more than one person aboard.
My son has a 1988 Searay Seville which is 21 feet long and it has a Merc Alpha mated to a GM 4.3L V-6 with a Quadrajet 4 barrel carb. That boat hits 50 MPH with two large adult men aboard and even with a family of four and a packed cooler it is still fast and gets on plane quickly with just a touch of down on the trim tabs.
That is a cuddy cabin and has a port-a-potty but no fridge or stove but he still enjoys the hell out of it and they use it to fish, ski and go camping on the spoils islands in the northern Indian River Lagoon. The additional two feet of length and 8" of additonal width add a lot of room over the 19' model your son is looking at and adds a total of about 400 pounds to the vessel. He tows it with a 2004 Ford Explorer that has the 4.6L V-8 and the Explorer handles the boat with no problems, including retrieving at the launch ramp. Of course Florida has no hills to traverse when towing, but I don't think Wisconsin is hilly either.
If you are looking for a used boat of 21-23 feet with a cuddy you are going to see a lot more sterndrives than outboards. In the used boat market around central Florida older boats that do have outboards tend to be off-shore open fishing boats without cuddy cabins and if they were manufactured before about 2004 the outboards usually are the two-stroke models. Four stroke outboards fetch a punitive price from my viewpoint. True, outboards free up interior space and you dont have to worry about the bellows, U-joints and exhaust manifolds, but sterndrives are usually a lot quieter, cheaper on repair bills when they do need maintenance (my 2006 Honda BF50 outboard on my little center console runs up a $550 tab for required service every 100 hours whereas an oil pan replacement on my 1996 26' Excel 5.7 Volvo was $980 and that included removing and reinstalling the whole motor) and their mounting point low in the hull make them ride and handle better.
Again, all that is my experience and my opinion - I know others have their opinions which may have equal validity.
My point here is that there a lot of cuddy cabin boats in the 21-23 foot range with the GM 4.3L V-6 that your son and family would enjoy. As always, condition and sales price should be heavily weighted in any purchasing decision. If you do find something he likes be sure to have a compression check run before making an offer - that one test can tell you a lot about the engine's condition.
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| rwilhite |
Edited by - rwilhite on Feb 27 2012 08:26:09 |
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Homeport: Merritt Island, FL
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Pa Mikee
RO# 32785
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Posted - Feb 27 2012 : 09:15:03
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Our first boat was a 21' cuddy which had the 4.3L. It had plenty of power and easily pulled a pair of skiers. Part of the decesion process on what size boat to buy is how many people will be on the boat. Due to the cuddy cabin I would be looking for something a little bigger than 19' to gain a little more more cockpit space.
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Homeport:
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Veebyes
RO# 11224
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Posted - Feb 27 2012 : 10:18:56
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The how many usually onboard & for what purpose is a big issue. If only for day trips with a small child a cuddy like my ex pictured above is fine. Overnighting with a small child is a whole nuther issue. Our firstborne spent her first night on that boat at 6 days old. We made do for the rest of the summer with it overnighting with the baby every sat night.
Next year we had a 27' diesel with a separate aft cabin. No way were we giving up our nights onboard a boat for a baby.
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Homeport: Bermuda
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KiDa
RO# 16492
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Posted - Feb 27 2012 : 11:04:19
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What type of water is he going to be boating in should be directly related to the size of the boat. For example. Growing up next to Narragansett Bay, ~23' seemed to be the perfect entry level trailerable because of the wave frequency. Sure I fished from my 18 footer but you could see the difference in how I was tossed around and a 23 less than a few hundred yards away was not. If he is inland lake not an issue.
If he is inland lake, he may want to look at the Stingray. The hull design is supposed to be more effecient overall and requires less HP to get and stay on plane. I only know what I've read on those, but with gas heading north of $5 per gallon, it is something to consider.
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____________
Best Regards,
David
Saint Max
'99 330 Sundancer
==========
Capitalism is to this administration what Judaism was to the Third Reich.
-- Me |
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Homeport: Hopewell, VA
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EdFitz
RO# 32779
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Posted - Feb 27 2012 : 14:38:35
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The conservative max trailer weight from Nissan based on the Pathfinder having a 4.0L engine is 6,000 lbs(http://www.nissanusa.com/pdf/techpubs/2008/2008NissanTowingGuide.pdf). He should be OK with anything around 24ft and under, based on that.
IMHO, I think that a cuddy on a 19 footer is a waste of space. It's too small to use for anything but storage, rarely (if ever) has A/C, and just takes away the seating that you'd otherwise have on a bow rider.
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Ed
2001 Bayliner Ciera 245 |
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Homeport: OC, MD
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realrez
RO# 5522
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Posted - Feb 27 2012 : 17:53:48
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i have a 1986 searay 23ft cuddy w new 5.7vortec and trailer
all in excellent cond for $6,000
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Homeport: LBI,NJ
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Mantle107
RO# 32629
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Posted - Feb 27 2012 : 18:40:29
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I had the 1999 19' Searay bowrider with the 4.3l merc and it was fantastic. It was not slow by any measure. We consistently had 4-6 people on her and were able to wakeboard and slalom ski without so much as an issue. I had the Jeep Grand Cherokee with a V8. Strong engine but short wheelbase - either way, towed her no problem at all. Even my friend who had the same car with the V6 was no problem. I later had a 24' bowrider which I towed with both that jeep and another 2005 Grand Cherokee that had the hemi. Both could tow the larger boat without a problem, but the biggest thing was the size of the cars. On longer trips or trips with lots of hills you felt the boat push the Jeep around. For short tows on relatively flat ground I think the pathfinder would be fine, but not for extended toes on hilly terrain.
The larger size definitely has some advantages. Head, more power, more weight (better in certain waters) etc...the smaller boat is easier to trailer, faster, more efficient, but definitely not built for the carrying capacity of the larger boat.
It's mostly personal preference, but for a first boat to easily trailer, operate inexpensively, and have a blast on I'd recommend the 19' Searay.
Just my opinion based on my own experiences. Either way, good luck and enjoy!!!!!
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"Searching"
2003 Four Winns 268 - Sold
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Homeport: NY
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whitecrystal1
RO# 24497
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Posted - Feb 27 2012 : 18:43:40
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quote:
Originally posted by EdFitz
The conservative max trailer weight from Nissan based on the Pathfinder having a 4.0L engine is 6,000 lbs(http://www.nissanusa.com/pdf/techpubs/2008/2008NissanTowingGuide.pdf). He should be OK with anything around 24ft and under, based on that.
IMHO, I think that a cuddy on a 19 footer is a waste of space. It's too small to use for anything but storage, rarely (if ever) has A/C, and just takes away the seating that you'd otherwise have on a bow rider.
A 24' boat is too heavy for that truck. Sorry, but I disagree with that. I had a 4 Runner and it did all it could to tow my 5K lb 21 footer up hills. I'm not sure what type of 24' boat you are referring too but I know my current wellcraft 2400 is pretty light compaired to most boats of this size. Mine weighs 4500lbs dry BUT you have to add fuel, water, gear, passengers, and the weight of the trailer. I am towing somewhere around 7K lbs. Your Bayliner weighs more than that on a trailer with fuel fuel and water alone.
My wife and I stayed out on our boat every weekend but 3 of them last year and I only used the A/C (portable unit) 1 time. As long as it was not humid the fans on my boat worked well at keeping us cool.
AS KiDa said above, this does depend on what type of water it will be used in. I had a 1997 Regal 2150LSC, it had a stepped hull and IMO was too rough of a ride in the Potomac river. Had I been using it in a lake I think it would have been a lot better. You also should factor where and how much towing you will be doing with it.
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Ralph
"small batch"
2001 Wellcraft Martinique 2400 5.7L EFI BIII
2010 Silverado CrewCab LTZ 4x4 L9H-6.2L NHT |
Edited by - whitecrystal1 on Feb 27 2012 18:46:15 |
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Homeport: Dumfries, VA on the Potomac River
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Monterey10
RO# 12830
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Posted - Feb 28 2012 : 09:21:30
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A Trophy 2002 should be considered....
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Homeport: Capitola, CA
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Mike Dzurko
RO# 11395
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Posted - Mar 03 2012 : 09:08:25
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I sincerely appreciate all the input. My son made an offer on the 19' Searay, and the seller FIRED the broker because he thought the offer was too low and "he didn't have the seller's best interest in mind" ! I suspect that boat might be for sale for a long time . . . .
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| Carver 638 Santego |
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Homeport: La Crosse, WI
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rbmitchell
RO# 3641
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Posted - Mar 04 2012 : 04:46:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Dzurko
...made an offer on the 19' Searay, and the seller FIRED the broker because...
Classic shooting of the messenger. Love it.
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| "The solution to this problem, when found, will be obvious." |
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Homeport: Beach Haven NJ&KeyWest FL
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Mike McManus
RO# 958
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Posted - Mar 04 2012 : 08:03:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Veebyes
Next year we had a 27' diesel with a separate aft cabin. No way were we giving up our nights onboard a boat for a baby.
I like your way of thinking 
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Bayview Canvas
SeaCraft 20SF |
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Homeport: Port charlotte , Florida
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FourMain
RO# 32855
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Posted - Mar 13 2012 : 08:54:03
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I have a 86 invader V197 cuddy cabin 32gal fuel tank. Tow with 96 Pathfinder 5000 lb towing cap. Well I have towet it with wife and tower it to Merrils Inlet SC with two weeks of Vacation gear and had no problems. I also have taken it to Jersey and New York no issues. Now last yr I picked up a 93 Excel SE 23ft and used a F150 Lariet to move from Jeraey to Maryland, the Pathfinder tows it fine on duel axel trailer with brakes localy. I could never see taking it anymore then 10 miles so I'm in the market for something with 7000lb towing.
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Fourmain
93 Wellcraft Excel 23SE
86 Invader V197CC |
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Homeport: Temple Hills, Md.
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Advice on purchase of small Cuddy
