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Nancy
RO# 4224
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 Posted - Mar 14 2012 : 22:25:58
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The refrigerator on the Albin 28TE we're buying needs to be replaced. The existing unit is a Norcold DC340D, which is obsolete, so I'm researching the possibilities.
First question: what are the pros and cons of DC only versus AC/DC? Prices are slightly lower for DC only. Do they not last as long as units which run part of the time on AC power?
The boat doesn't have a generator or inverter, so I'm not inclined to go the AC only route.
What brands should I be looking at or avoiding? I'm not hearing good things about Norcold or Dometic. What about Isotherm or Vitrifrigo?
Thanks for your help.
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Homeport: Malletts Bay, Lake Champlain
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rbmitchell
RO# 3641
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 04:48:52
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AC only with a tiny inverter (the $50 kind) would give you the same performance as the Norcold. The Norcold is actually a 40 volt or so unit with a transformer (for 120 or 240 volts) and an inverter when running on batteries. The requirements for the inverter are small because the power consumption is small.
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Homeport: Beach Haven NJ&KeyWest FL
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rawidman
RO# 25110
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 06:51:47
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I would not try to use an AC only refrigerator with a $50 inverter on a boat. Any inverter would have to be sized for the startup load of the refrigerator compressor and that can be much higher than the load once the compressor is running. A refrigerator compressor will start and stop several times a day to keep an even temperature in the refrigerator. Also, a $50 inverter is not likely to br rated for continuous duty. It will likely overheat and burn up long before the expected life of the refrigerator. And of course, the inverter won't be controlled by the thermostat so it will run continuously and the total current draw of the combination will be higher than that of a marine refrigerator designed to run on 12 volts DC or a combination of 12 volts or 120 volts AC when available.
Norcold is a big player in the marine refrigerator market but there are lots of complaints also. I had an Isotherm in my previous boat and have a Nova Kool refrigerator in my current boat and both worked perfectly. I would look at both brands and pick what best fits your boat and budget.
As for AC/DC vs DC only, if you normally have shorepower available, running the refrigerator on AC (shorepower) current takes the load off your batteries and battery charger. I would spend the extra for it.
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Ron
2000 Camano Troll |
Edited by - rawidman on Mar 15 2012 06:55:44 |
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Homeport: Charleston, SC
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rnbenton
RO# 31163
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 07:00:48
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quote:
Originally posted by rawidman
As for AC/DC vs DC only, if you normally have shorepower available, running the refrigerator on AC (shorepower) current takes the load off your batteries and battery charger. I would spend the extra for it.
+1.
Bob
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Captain, Sea Tow Central Florida, St. Johns River
Key West 196 Bay Reef, 150 Yamaha
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Homeport: Palm Coast, FL
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stmbtwle
RO# 7934
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 07:28:41
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Inverters are a lot less expensive than they used to be. A 700-800 watt inverter will start just about any boat-sized fridge (mine is 9 cu ft), and once the fridge is running the power consumption drops to maybe 150 watts or so. In my experience a 450 watt inverter is not enough. If in doubt go bigger. I currently run a 1750w, but it runs lots of stuff besides the fridge.
Regardless of whether you use an inverter or straight DC, you need to have the battery power to run the system over the long term, or you will be unhappy.
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| Willie. She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay, FL
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Nancy
RO# 4224
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 07:55:09
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Yes, we have shore power on the dock, so that makes sense about taking the load off the DC system. Thank for the input about Isotherm and Nova Kool.
We went to an AC-only/inverter setup on our existing boat. The inverter is a 1000W Xantrex, and it's been fine...except on hot nights on the hook, the inverter fan runs *a lot*. It's noisier than the fridge. If it were located somewhere that we couldn't hear it as much, we'd be more satisfied. But it's a boat, so suitable installation locations are limited.
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Homeport: Malletts Bay, Lake Champlain
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mixman
RO# 25362
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 08:03:57
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If you spend a lot of time on the hook,I do not believe inverting 12v DC to 110v AC will be as efficient as a true 12v system. I would think, and others can certainly correct me if I'm wrong, if AC and DC operation are desired, the most 12v-friendly way to do it would be a 12v refrigeration system that has a built-in transformer to convert 110v AC to 12v DC when plugged into shore power, not the other way around.
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--Kurt
17 knot cruise at 5mpg (3.5/gph). Two hulls are better than one! |
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Homeport: Chesapeake Bay
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Nancy
RO# 4224
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 08:22:40
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Thanks, Kurt. Yes, I'm quite sure we'll go the AC/DC route on this refrigerator.
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Homeport: Malletts Bay, Lake Champlain
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stmbtwle
RO# 7934
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 08:23:41
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You're probably right but there is more to it than that. A TRUE 12v fridge might be more efficient and may be better insulated that lower-priced AC units. However some DC units are simply AC units with a built-in inverter. I have reservations whether an AC/DC unit is going to be any better than an AC unit, as the power has to get converted one way or the other, possibly both ways.
However the inverter draw IS something to be considered, as it usually runs continuously not just when the fridge is on. Bigger inverters waste more power than smaller ones. Some newer inverters only come on when required, but I doubt any of the inexpensive ones have that feature.
Cost wise, the cost of a good DC fridge is generally more than the cost of an AC fridge AND the inverter AND an extra battery to compensate for the losses.
As far as I know no-one has taken an AC fridge and inverter combination and run it side-by-side with a comparable DC unit and recorded the power consumed over time, so all we really have is opinions.
Once installed, an inverter comes in handy for other uses... TV for example, coffeemaker, or even power tools.
You pays your money, you makes your choice.
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| Willie. She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! |
Edited by - stmbtwle on Mar 15 2012 08:25:05 |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay, FL
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rnbenton
RO# 31163
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 08:24:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Nancy
Thanks, Kurt. Yes, I'm quite sure we'll go the AC/DC route on this refrigerator.
Good choice. Just be sure to look at as many of them as you can and compare the effieiency numbers. Some of them are extremely efficient but, others, are real power hogs.
Bob
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Captain, Sea Tow Central Florida, St. Johns River
Key West 196 Bay Reef, 150 Yamaha
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Edited by - rnbenton on Mar 15 2012 08:26:26 |
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Homeport: Palm Coast, FL
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rawidman
RO# 25110
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 08:25:20
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An inverter will be at best, 90% efficient, probably less. The heat from the inverter that Nancy mentions is power wasted converting 12 volts DC to 120 volts AC.
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Ron
2000 Camano Troll |
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Homeport: Charleston, SC
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Nancy
RO# 4224
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 08:30:31
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Bob, nothing can be more of a power hog than the original Nevercold in our existing boat - 5 amps!
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Homeport: Malletts Bay, Lake Champlain
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Audrey II
RO# 30499
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 08:38:58
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AC/DC units work on 12 volts all the time they convert AC to DC and have a relay to disconnect the battery feed when AC is available. If I had to replace with a single source unit I would go with a DC unit this way it works while on a hook. Your charger will keep your battery topped off when you are plugged in.
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Dave
I just wish common sense was a little more common.
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1996 440 Trojan Express
2008 Sea-Doo GTX Jet Ski sold |
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Homeport: Haverstraw, NY
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mixman
RO# 25362
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 08:51:52
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I run a 12v refrigerator and a 12v chest freezer off battery all the time. The charger has no issue keeping up with it and keeping the batteries topped off.
While we're on the inverter subject, if someone was to go that route, wouldn't they be best served to use a pure sine wave inverter instead of a modified? The latter is cheaper but inductive loads do not run as well on them if I'm correct?
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--Kurt
17 knot cruise at 5mpg (3.5/gph). Two hulls are better than one! |
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Homeport: Chesapeake Bay
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rnbenton
RO# 31163
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 09:10:02
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quote:
Originally posted by mixman
I run a 12v refrigerator and a 12v chest freezer off battery all the time.
Kurt, what kind of freezer do you have?
Bob
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Captain, Sea Tow Central Florida, St. Johns River
Key West 196 Bay Reef, 150 Yamaha
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Homeport: Palm Coast, FL
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pdecat
RO# 842
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 09:20:22
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Check the efficiency ratings. It would not surprise me if the AC refer was much more efficient.
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Bruce
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Homeport: Gulf Coast FL
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mixman
RO# 25362
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 09:47:34
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quote:
Originally posted by rnbenton
quote:
Originally posted by mixman
I run a 12v refrigerator and a 12v chest freezer off battery all the time.
Kurt, what kind of freezer do you have?
Bob
Waeco/Dometic CF-50:
http://www.dometic.com/566faaa1-92d0-4cfc-9a3d-21bab77ed911.fodoc
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--Kurt
17 knot cruise at 5mpg (3.5/gph). Two hulls are better than one! |
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Homeport: Chesapeake Bay
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OLD HOUSEBOATER
RO# 9099
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 10:36:36
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Your all getting into technical babble, that in the real world doesn't mean diddly squat. In the real world a 12volt unit that is installed in a boat equipped with a proper battery charger is uncomplicated and works real well. The fridge load is so small that the charger won't even see it. The battery bank takes care of the surge load so charger requirements are insignificant.
The 2nd route is a 110/12 volt original equipment type. The worst unit you can buy will outlast your ownership of the boat, so go for it. This is the unit your buyer expects to see.
The 3rd choice is a Walmart 120 volt AC unit. Cheap throw away unit that lasts forever. If you have an inverter setup already, it's the way to go.
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OLD HOUSEBOATER
The French fries are cold so we gave you extra. |
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Homeport: GULF SHORES AL.
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stmbtwle
RO# 7934
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 16:02:19
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Ditto OHB!
I've never run into ANY issues running a fridge, TV, or any other load on a common "modified sine wave" inverter. The pure sine wave might be more efficient, but I don't know it's worth the premium.
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| Willie. She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! |
Edited by - stmbtwle on Mar 15 2012 16:07:28 |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay, FL
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rawidman
RO# 25110
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 17:48:04
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quote:
Originally posted by stmbtwle
Ditto OHB!
I've never run into ANY issues running a fridge, TV, or any other load on a common "modified sine wave" inverter. The pure sine wave might be more efficient, but I don't know it's worth the premium.
I can tell you this from first hand experience - Many microwave overns will perform poorly, if at all, on a "modified sine wave" inverter.
I had to replace the one that came with my boat because it would sometimes cook and sometimes not on inverter power.
The replacement cooks on inverter power, but not as fast (I tested it) and it makes a much louder noise.
The "KISS" pronciple says that the fewer things you have to reach a goal, the better. Using a 12 volt refrigerator when you have 12 volts to power it fits the "KISS" principle.
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Ron
2000 Camano Troll |
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Homeport: Charleston, SC
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KiDa
RO# 16492
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Posted - Mar 15 2012 : 23:57:36
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I agree with an AC dorm fridge and a quality inverter and extra battery bank. However if you want a good 12V unit check out Tundra. Low power draw even at startup and very quiet.
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____________
Best Regards,
David
Saint Max
'99 330 Sundancer
==========
Capitalism is to this administration what Judaism was to the Third Reich.
-- Me |
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Homeport: Hopewell, VA
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42chris
RO# 31629
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Posted - Mar 17 2012 : 16:01:32
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I bought a Vitrifrigo last year. They are super quiet, efficient and it has a lot more room inside than in the same size old Norcold. I know of at least 5 boats in our marina that have put them in only one of them had a problem and they came out hand fixed it in his boat. I have the under counter model and the freezer really does freeze things. The old norcold was real noisy and the freezer section would only freeze in certain areas and it used allot more power while on the hook.
Out of the 3 Norcold’s and 1 Vitrifrigo that I have had over the years I would recommend the Vitrifrigo . You hardly ever hear it run and it real good on your batteries while on the hook.
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Homeport: CA
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boater21222
RO# 13764
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Posted - Mar 25 2012 : 11:38:26
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quote:
The existing unit is a Norcold DC340D, which is obsolete, so I'm researching the possibilities.
Hi Nancy,
Nice to see you here. Norcold makes a AC/DC replacement for the DC340. The model # is DC0740. You will have to cut about 1.5" at the top to make it flush. The height/width is the same as the old one but is a little deeper.
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John
Albin 28 TE "Afterglow"
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Homeport: Baltimore
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Nancy
RO# 4224
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Posted - Mar 25 2012 : 19:35:21
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Hi John -
I've been here just about forever. ;) I'm fantasizing that I can find a slightly larger capacity fridge that fits the available space (with modification). Would also prefer to stay away from Norcold if possible. Will know more after the old fridge is removed.
Nancy
Albin 28TE (under deposit)
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Homeport: Malletts Bay, Lake Champlain
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Refrigerator - AC/DC or 12V DC only, brands
