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mawyatt
RO# 29307
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 Posted - Apr 07 2012 : 10:21:46
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We have had a problem with the dripless shaft seals leaking for the past few years on a our 2008 38DA (delivered new March 2008). MarineMax Clearwater made many service attempts to cure the problem but the shafts (mostly the port) continued to leak.
A couple weeks ago we took the boat in for bottom paint and waxing, and warranty replacing both engine cool fuel modules...and another attempt to cure the shaft leaking issue. Late last (Friday) night I get an eail that both shafts are grooved and need replacement and SeaRay will not warranty this because it is due to "normal" wear. We have only 210 hrs on the engines.
Does this seem reasonable with only 200 engine hours?? Could the shaft grooving be caused by the shaft seal leaking?? I checked our service log and noted this was an issue in April 2009, and the seals were addressed each time the boat was serviced at the dealer and many times at the dock.
Any help/advice is appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike
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Mike
SeaRay 38DA |
Homeport: Clearwater, Fl
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Apr 07 2012 : 10:31:15
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Grooved shafts in only 200 hours!? Sounds like BS to me. What kind of seals do you have?
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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Ghost
RO# 689
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Posted - Apr 07 2012 : 18:47:45
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Really there is scant details here to have an opinion.
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| What part of GALE WARNING did you not understand? |
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Homeport: Everett Wa
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mawyatt
RO# 29307
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Posted - Apr 07 2012 : 22:54:36
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Bill,
I believe they are Tide Seals, this is evidently the SeaRay OEM seal.
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Mike
SeaRay 38DA |
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Homeport: Clearwater, Fl
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Apr 08 2012 : 08:57:20
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I'd start by talking with the Tides folks. I not sure how grooves in the shafts would even effect the seals ability to operate correctly.
Where are the grooves located?
Sounds like there might be a shaft alignment issue from the start.
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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Ghost
RO# 689
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Posted - Apr 08 2012 : 09:10:23
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Tide seals are lip based seals. If they were installed improperly, you could see a scored shaft in 200 hours in case these seals could not be fixed by simply fitting new lip seals, though you might be able to reposition the seal on a new part of the shaft. Here's guessing they have actually made the mistake a couple times and no longer have any clean shaft area to install them on.
While the tide is likely an installer caused problem and tide makes a good product, this is partly why I prefer face seals if you want drip less seals. They can have their own issues, but are more forgiving.
I would replace with pss seals if you can get the collar in an area that is not scored. The seal itself won't care about the shaft scoring. If there is room to fit you won't have to replace shafts.
The scoring is not normal in any way.
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| What part of GALE WARNING did you not understand? |
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Homeport: Everett Wa
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Apr 08 2012 : 09:35:18
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Shows how good my memory is. I guess I was confusing them with another brand. Because I though Tides were face seals too. As lip seals they can groove a shaft. But they shouldn't if installed/working correctly.
As Ghost said the scoring is not normal. So I would check alignment as well.
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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mawyatt
RO# 29307
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Posted - Apr 08 2012 : 11:45:20
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Thanks guys. I'll be on the phone with MM tomorrow.
Happy Holiday Weekend
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Mike
SeaRay 38DA |
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Homeport: Clearwater, Fl
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mawyatt
RO# 29307
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Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 09:07:04
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Just got back from a week long business trip. MM sent an email late Thursday with a "discounted" quote to replace both shafts and Cutlass bearings for a total of ~$2300. They say my shafts are grooved and need replacement and this is due to normal wear and tear. They did say they replaced the shaft seals in 2010 and will replace again at no cost.
We do boat in shallow water but only have 200 hours on the engines. The shafts are $717 each with $522 labor & $290 additional parts. We first noted water leaking from the port seal in April 2009 and we took delivery on the boat March 12, 2008, only one year after delivery. MM tried many times to stop the leak unsuccessfully and now claims it's from sand and normal wear and tear. They claimed the shafts were fine in Feb 2010 when they replaced the seals (which soon began leaking again), so basically they are saying we grooved the shafts since Feb 2010 which would equate to less than 100 hrs engine use. This seems very unreasonable.
We just had both engine impellars replaced and the orginial ones were in very good condition, I would think these would be badly worn if sand was an issue.
I have never had an issue with the MM service before, they have always been up front (but never did cure my port shaft leak!!!) with me. But this is a new service manager and I don't know what to think.
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Mike
SeaRay 38DA |
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Homeport: Clearwater, Fl
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 09:38:34
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I can smell MM's BS all the way across the peninsula!
There is no way that your seals could have damaged the shafts in so few hours. Shallow water is really irrelevant since under way the props push stuff away from the seals!! So unless you spend a lot of time reversing thru stirred sand, they are taking you for a ride
We have Tides Strong SureSeals on the boat I run and I have seen them drip occasionally but it usually cures itself right away.
How much of a leak do you have?
Unless the grooving is really bad, the surface can probably be cleaned starting with 300 grit as suggested in the manual
Get a second opinion from a reputable yard with a good shaft/running gear specialist
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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KiDa
RO# 16492
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Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 09:41:02
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^+1 Pascal.
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____________
Best Regards,
David
Saint Max
'99 330 Sundancer
==========
Capitalism is to this administration what Judaism was to the Third Reich.
-- Me |
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Homeport: Hopewell, VA
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Veg
RO# 20854
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Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 10:03:14
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^+2
Normal wear and tear my a$%
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| 2001 Tiara 2900 Open - "O Sole Mio" - Stillwater, MN |
Edited by - Veg on Apr 16 2012 10:03:31 |
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Homeport: Stillwater, MN
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Ghost
RO# 689
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Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 13:23:52
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Broadening the issue, the most cost conscience thing you can ever do is to find a good yard and give them all of your business. Ignore their rates, they may look high but will save you in the long run. The good guys will always be cheaper in the long run, because quality work does not require do-overs. Even inclusive of giving up any "warranty" work by a dealer. Look how MM is costing you here already, and the biggest cost of all is in personal satisfaction and the loss of the use of your boat.
Don't allow yourself to get wedded to a yard who will hold you hostage. Just don't do it.
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| What part of GALE WARNING did you not understand? |
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Homeport: Everett Wa
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 13:53:46
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If you really get stuck paying for most of this out of your own pocket I wouldl look at saving yourself some money by going with old style stuffing boxes and using GFO packing in them and just run it dripless.
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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KiDa
RO# 16492
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Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 14:33:39
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I'd agree Bill, but getting them in the interim with V-drives is a bear.
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____________
Best Regards,
David
Saint Max
'99 330 Sundancer
==========
Capitalism is to this administration what Judaism was to the Third Reich.
-- Me |
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Homeport: Hopewell, VA
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 14:40:58
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Yes in that case there may be no choice.
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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mawyatt
RO# 29307
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Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 15:30:31
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Pascal,
The leak isn't too bad and only when running. Probably something like a quart an hour.
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Mike
SeaRay 38DA |
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Homeport: Clearwater, Fl
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 17:20:32
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Problem with vee drives is that usually the spray ends up corroding the oil pan but if minimal and only underway, I d be tempted to leave it alone for now. Or try moving the seal carrier around a bit, usually there is a little movement since it s held on by the hose
Also, assuming it s the same Tide seal we have, do you have spare seals on the shaft? Or have they already used them up?
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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mawyatt
RO# 29307
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Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 10:50:32
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Went to visit the boat and talk with service today. MM is working this up thru the SeaRay management.
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Mike
SeaRay 38DA |
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Homeport: Clearwater, Fl
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Shaft Seals Leaking
