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In the know
RO# 20824
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camman73
RO# 17493
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Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 11:09:31
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Horrible judgement that cost two teenagers their lives. There should be major consequences, possibly stripping him of his Captains license.
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Keith
Lombard, IL |
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Homeport: Waukegan, IL
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ronp
RO# 23477
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Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 14:12:07
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Maybe the captain and his officers need some alone time in a small boat at sea to reflect on this.
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Thanks,
Ron |
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Homeport: Amityville, NY
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Ghost
RO# 689
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Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 18:21:37
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Cry Wolf situation? I wonder how many derelict looking vessels a cruise ship passes in the waters near economic challenged areas where a passenger waves a shirt.
Personally, from the Oregon couple it sounds pretty damning. In hindsight it is obviously clear what the reality was.
I'm just trying to be reasonable in circumstances that might explain the behavior of such a captain. Maybe...after awhile it gets difficult to recognize real rescue needs. It also may be true that there are real rescue needs every hour in these waters because boats are perpetually not maintained. If so, a cruise ship would be making stops every single trip. Would not surprise me if that was true. I just want a very real world expectation as to the routine level decisions that a captain in such waters faces. What would you do in pirate waters? Panama is far from "safe".
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| What part of GALE WARNING did you not understand? |
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Homeport: Everett Wa
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GeeBee
RO# 385
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Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 18:37:04
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Seems that without explanation, we will have to await one. It may be the correct communication did not reach the bridge. We'll see.
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"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."... Margaret Thatcher
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Homeport: Lake Lanier, GA
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saltysam
RO# 26
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Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 21:59:33
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"Total Responsibility"--is the operative phrase regarding the captain's duties. I suspect he will be given at least a Letter of Caution and some Company discipline to show disfavor.
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Cheers!
Bill |
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Homeport: New River, Ft Lauderdale
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gcolton
RO# 9708
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 Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 05:36:34
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quote:
Originally posted by camman73
Horrible judgement that cost two teenagers their lives. There should be major consequences, possibly stripping him of his Captains license.
I think that would be too kind. Surely there must be some criminal act they can charge him with.
George
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| If you are not boating or golfing you are wasting your day. |
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Homeport: EAFB Yacht Club
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GeeBee
RO# 385
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Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 08:41:32
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First you have to establish he was aware of the issue. That is not entirely clear from the report.
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"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."... Margaret Thatcher
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Homeport: Lake Lanier, GA
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sabrejocky
RO# 12195
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Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 08:43:59
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Word on the news this morning is that the information never made it to the bridge which does not surprise me.
I think the cruise industry has a big communication/ language problem with so many different nationalities working on board.
There is no real common language used among the crew and if one thinks that english is the standard you will find that those crew members without direct contact with the passengers may not speak any english.
I think that in the end we will find this communication problem to be a contributing issue in the sinking in Italy.
My wife went on a cruise 2 week ago and I can tell you that not a thing has chanced with the safety briefing even after they said they would.
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"Pretty Penny"
1990 50' High Tech Euro
Wellington, Florida
You ain't much if you ain't Dutch |
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Homeport: Miami, Florida
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stmbtwle
RO# 7934
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Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 09:26:04
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quote:
Originally posted by GeeBee
First you have to establish he was aware of the issue. That is not entirely clear from the report.
+1. We don't know who the "officer" the passengers talked to called, was it the captain or someone else? Then there's the communication issue. However SOMEONE is going to find himself in deep ...... Whom it is will depend on the investigation.
It only takes a few minutes to turn even a ship that large around and go check it out. A small boat drifting way offshore with no other vessels around is already an indication that something may be wrong. Someone frantically waving is another. It would have been worth at least a circle.
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| Willie. She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay, FL
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 09:30:59
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So fr the whole thing is based on what two passengers said... A little early to condemn the captain...
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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Russ Taylor
RO# 31411
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Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 10:33:00
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With all the piracy and terrorism in the world today it has to be a tough decision on the part of the Captain, does he put his ship and passengers in jeopardy by approaching a vessel that may be disabled.
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Homeport: Ma
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stevenp
RO# 32102
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Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 10:58:37
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The article states the fishing vessel didn't have a radio and therefore couldn't communicate with the cruise ship. Radios aren't "optional equipment". If you're going out to sea you should have this covered with redundancy in check. I bet that would have saved their lives.
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Edited by - stevenp on Apr 20 2012 10:59:54 |
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Homeport: MA
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ronp
RO# 23477
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Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 11:02:42
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I wouldn't buy the piracy argument. If you think it might be a pirate you have all the more reason to call someone and accurately report the position.
I agree more info is needed here though.
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Thanks,
Ron |
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Homeport: Amityville, NY
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November Charlie
RO# 824
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Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 11:33:29
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quote:
Originally posted by PascalG
So fr the whole thing is based on what two passengers said... A little early to condemn the captain...
Exactly.
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| My signature line is cooler than your signature line. |
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Homeport: Northeast
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The Other Gary
RO# 143
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Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 11:50:28
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If the report did not reach the Bridge then someone's head will roll here.
An officer on a ship is an officer on a ship.
I seriously wonder how much "law of the Sea" training an officer on the "Hotel" side
of these cruise ships actually have or are required to have.
Do they get any?
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Gary Peck 1997 Bayliner 3988 MY, twin 330 Cummins
I saw a movie where only the military and the police had guns,,,,, It was called Schindler's List |
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Homeport: Toronto, Lake Ontario
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 14:51:14
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quote:
Originally posted by stevenp
The article states the fishing vessel didn't have a radio and therefore couldn't communicate with the cruise ship. Radios aren't "optional equipment". If you're going out to sea you should have this covered with redundancy in check. I bet that would have saved their lives.
You re dealing with skiffs in a 3rd world country...
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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stmbtwle
RO# 7934
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Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 15:24:42
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Not like they have a whole lot of money to be buying radios, GPS, and all the other stuff we take for granted.
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| Willie. She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay, FL
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ronp
RO# 23477
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Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 15:38:31
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/20/travel/cruise-ship-apology/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
Cruise line acknowledges that some staff member heard about it from the passengers, but says captain and watch officer didn't.
It also says or implies that by the time this happened, people including the Panamanian Navy were looking for these guys.
I would wonder if ships transiting the area could have or should have been alerted to the situation. Maybe that would have made a difference.
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Thanks,
Ron |
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Homeport: Amityville, NY
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November Charlie
RO# 824
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Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 19:57:53
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quote:
Originally posted by ronp
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/20/travel/cruise-ship-apology/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
Cruise line acknowledges that some staff member heard about it from the passengers, but says captain and watch officer didn't.
It also says or implies that by the time this happened, people including the Panamanian Navy were looking for these guys.
I would wonder if ships transiting the area could have or should have been alerted to the situation. Maybe that would have made a difference.
That sounds perfectly plausible.
Let's play devil's advocate - some passengers saw, at great distance, people on a small boat waving at the cruise ship. We're all boaters here, so I think we can all concede that waving at other boats, commercial, and government vessels is VERY common. What if - and I stress the what if because all I know is what I read in those two media pieces - the passenger's concern was relayed to a junior staff member on the ship, from them to their supervisor, and dismissed as just that - people on a small boat waving at the ship, without it ever being relayed to the bridge?
Again, just a what if, but a perfectly plausible one.
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| My signature line is cooler than your signature line. |
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Homeport: Northeast
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Fletcha
RO# 24981
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Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 06:54:46
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But if the passenger account is true (I know...another if), that a "rep" from the cruise line looked though the same spotting scope and saw the arm waving with red flags, then someone along the Chaim of command screwed up royally.
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Homeport: Charlestown, MA
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dancerscap
RO# 20150
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Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 11:57:32
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Some one waving a red flag at a ship from a small fishing boat 130 miles offshore doesn't raise a red flag of its own?
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Homeport: Hudson,Fl.
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L. Keith
RO# 1615
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Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 13:32:56
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If we put all the experienced mariners in jail, who is gonna bring you the Nikes/I Phones/Flat Screens/Marine Electronics/Clothes/Video Games/Yachts/ETC from China?
How many Air Crews have flown over vessels in distress and not investigated a signal from the old 121.5 MHz E.P.I.R.B.'s because they were not monitoring that frequency or had the audio turned down?
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Edited by - L. Keith on Apr 21 2012 13:39:20 |
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Homeport: N. Gulf of Mexico
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GeeBee
RO# 385
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Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 15:11:49
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Actually unless your company requires it monitoring 121.5 is not required and is subject to radio availiabilty.
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"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."... Margaret Thatcher
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Homeport: Lake Lanier, GA
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stmbtwle
RO# 7934
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Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 16:52:39
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quote:
Originally posted by dancerscap
Some one waving a red flag at a ship from a small fishing boat 130 miles offshore doesn't raise a red flag of its own?
Even without anyone waving a red flag, a boat that size that far offshore is a cause for concern, and probably investigation.
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| Willie. She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay, FL
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troublemaker
RO# 32512
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Posted - Apr 22 2012 : 00:44:01
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Some one waving a red flag at a ship from a small fishing boat 130 miles offshore doesn't raise a red flag of its own?
130 miles from the nearest shore with someone waving a red or orange cloth would get my attention. The surviving fisher man confirmed the story the two people from Oregon stated.
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| TM |
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Homeport: British Columbia
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GeeBee
RO# 385
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Posted - Apr 22 2012 : 07:50:37
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That is all fine. The flag the boat, let us presume all is correct. Did the word reach the bridge? Seems like a simple question and a simple thing but often times communication to the command seat gets muddled and the commander is unaware. I have seen it a million times. That is why when I tell my people if you have an emergency, stay on the comm with me and report everything, even if you think it is not important.
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"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."... Margaret Thatcher
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Homeport: Lake Lanier, GA
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Veebyes
RO# 11224
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Posted - Apr 22 2012 : 07:57:17
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Hmmm, nice boat for fishermen from what is considered a 3rd world country by some. No radio, or dead battery, to power the radio? Fishing offshore & no EPERB? Did the message of the sighting reach the bridge? If so, why was it ignored? How often do passengers, who are not nautically inclined at all, see things or think that they see things that are not so?
In my 18 years of hauling people, mostly non boaters, around, they would see all kinds of things that simply were not what they thought they were.
A cruise ship is on a very tight shedule. If the Capt went off to investigate every sighting of a passenger he would not remain Capt for long. This case is unfortunate however full blame cannot be placed on the ship or crew.
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Homeport: Bermuda
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stmbtwle
RO# 7934
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Posted - Apr 22 2012 : 18:55:50
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A circle and a pass would take maybe 30 minutes, the ship wouldn't even have to slow down. I'm sure the bad press will cost them more than the delay which they probably could make up. IF the pass warrants a stop, the GOOD press would be worth it.
I'm of the idea that the word never got to the bridge or if it did, by the time it did the boat was out of sight. We simply don't know at this time.
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| Willie. She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! |
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Homeport: Tampa Bay, FL
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gcolton
RO# 9708
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Posted - Apr 23 2012 : 05:18:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Veebyes
Hmmm, nice boat for fishermen from what is considered a 3rd world country by some. No radio, or dead battery, to power the radio? Fishing offshore & no EPERB? Did the message of the sighting reach the bridge? If so, why was it ignored? How often do passengers, who are not nautically inclined at all, see things or think that they see things that are not so?
In my 18 years of hauling people, mostly non boaters, around, they would see all kinds of things that simply were not what they thought they were.
A cruise ship is on a very tight shedule. If the Capt went off to investigate every sighting of a passenger he would not remain Capt for long. This case is unfortunate however full blame cannot be placed on the ship or crew.
In this case the sighting of the boat in distress was very true. If the crew of the ship cannot be blamed,then who can. It was not the passengers fault.
George
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| If you are not boating or golfing you are wasting your day. |
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Homeport: EAFB Yacht Club
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Veebyes
RO# 11224
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Posted - Apr 23 2012 : 09:06:47
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Yes, hindsight is perfect. Again, where was the radio for the distressed vessel, where was the eperb, where were the flares (SOLAS standard since offshore not little firecracker ones from West Marine), where was the responsibility of the fishermen?
Sorry for being harsh but where I boat there is NO coast guard to come save my butt. If I can't help myself or contact another boat to help me I am destined to drift all the way to Europe somewhere.
Years ago, when the US Navy had a chopper here boaters, especially fishermen in small boats, took chances with poorly equiped boats knowing that the US Navy would come looking for them. Since the Navy moved out cases of boater distress have decreased. They know that they are responsible for themselves & rescue services are extremely limited here.
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Edited by - Veebyes on Apr 23 2012 09:09:00 |
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Homeport: Bermuda
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Topic |
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Princee Cruises Master comes under fire
