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RWS
RO# 25075
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 Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 07:39:58
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My 33' Trojan express cruiser has three seperate bilges. The engine room is built with vacuum liner construction and the aft bilge "connects" to the fwd bilge via the keel.
On the boat lift, water travels aft as she is on a bow up incline.
In the water, the fwd bilge is the lowest point and the A/C condensate drains into that bilge.
From time to time I would dump a bit of DAWN liquid detergent into the bilges to keep them a bit cleaner.
Then I got the idea to begin adding it to the head along with a good, long, satisfying flush (aaah) from time to time to keep things down there nice and squeaky clean, as well as perhaps keeping the duckbill valves clear of any accumulated debris. (seems logical, does it not?)
Recently I got the idea to add Pine Sol to the bilge, again just a splash from time to time. It seems to add a freshness.
Any potential risks or problems associated with this?
Could i/should i add a splash of pine sol to the sanitation system or stay with the Dawn or go back to the old fashioned practice of adding powdered dishwasher soap?
I will never ever again use (or my ignorant possible overuse) any commercial head treatment as these softened the factory sealant on the intergal hull holding tank lid creating a nasty mess and tremendous amount of extra work for me durnig my refit.
Here's to being clean and smelling great !
Your comments are appreciated.
THANKS !
RWS
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| 1983 Trojan International 10 Meter Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels |
Homeport: FL
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 10:43:59
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The stuff that accumulates on the duck valves is a mineral deposit. So Dawn will not make much of a difference.
To keep your bilge dry and clean get your A/C condensation water to drain over board, go to your show drain box or it's own box that drains overboard.
Adding a small amount of Pine Sol from time to time should do no harm. While not doing much else either I would think. :-)
Not all commercial head treatment contain the same ingredients or even work in the same ways. So I'm sure there is something out there that would be safe to use if you wanted. It is odd that the tank manufacturer would use sealant that would be degraded by common holding tank treatments. Was the tank made by Trojan perhaps?
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Great, now take it to NBR. |
Edited by - Capt. Bill1 on Apr 21 2012 22:32:15 |
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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HOGAN
RO# 3813
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 Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 11:41:34
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No way should ANY holding tank treatment damage the tank, sounds like it was defective to begin with.
I wouldn't put any type of soap into the holding tank, you will end up with a system that stinks to high heaven.
Try an enzymatic cleaner such as Odor Los.
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1999 Trojan 440 Express
2005 Scout 175 Sportfish
Achilles LEX 96
MMSI# 338049724
Surly to bed, surly to rise... |
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Homeport: SS3 @ PennyBridge Marina, Stony Point, NY
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 11:41:49
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I agree with Bill, your first step should be to route the AC condensate to an existing it to a new sump. A dry bilge is Well worth the $100!
Dawn or pinesol isn't going to do anything to the holding tank... Leave it alone. If you wantvtinkeevent calcium on the DBs, vinegar is probably the best option but I m no sure it s going to do much if a significant amount of build up is already there
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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Dusty Rhoads
RO# 10868
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Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 15:29:23
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As Pascal mentioned, we flush a 1/2 cup vinegar down the head before we leave boat. It helps to dissolve anything in the hoses also. I recently had a problem with a holding tank gauge, and used a small amount of water in the tank and 4 Alka Seltzer. Freed up the sender, and works OK now.
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| Dusty "Moon River" |
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Homeport: Annapolis, MD
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Flutterby
RO# 14378
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Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 16:42:32
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quote:
Originally posted by HOGAN
I wouldn't put any type of soap into the holding tank, you will end up with a system that stinks to high heaven.
Try an enzymatic cleaner such as Odor Los.
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Homeport: California Sierras/Gold Country
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Nancy
RO# 4224
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Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 19:11:05
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You have a Vacuflush? Don't even think about putting Pinesol in it! The previous owner of our F32 did that, and we ended up replacing almost every component when we bought the boat. Pinesol contains petroleum products, if I remember correctly, and it ruined the hoses, seals, vacuum tank components, pump, etc., etc. Odorlos worked well for us after getting the system straightened out.
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Homeport: Malletts Bay, Lake Champlain
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jacko
RO# 29042
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Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 20:06:57
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I have been dumping in 1/2 a bottle of hydrogen Peroxide into the wet bilge. you come back and it is clean. Then all you have to do is get rid of the water. I hope I took care of that today. I replaced the seals for the rudders that have been weeping.
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Homeport: Welcome MD
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rawidman
RO# 25110
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Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 20:08:50
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quote:
Originally posted by HOGAN
No way should ANY holding tank treatment damage the tank, sounds like it was defective to begin with.
I wouldn't put any type of soap into the holding tank, you will end up with a system that stinks to high heaven.
Try an enzymatic cleaner such as Odor Los.
That's the response I agree with. Putting soap or detergent into a marine sanitation system can only damage it and cannot accomplish anything good.
I use Odorlos and have been using it for years. It's important to follow the directions so don't expect it to work if you also add soap or chemicals.
Dawn dishwashing liquid is pretty good for cleaning a bilge, but only mixed with water and with some scrubbing, then removing the result by mopping or pumping. Just squirting it into the bilge from time to time isn't going to accomplish anything.
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Ron
2000 Camano Troll |
Edited by - rawidman on Apr 21 2012 20:09:32 |
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Homeport: Charleston, SC
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rawidman
RO# 25110
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Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 20:14:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Capt. Bill1
All commercial head treatment contain the same ingredients or even work in the same ways.
Not really. There are the chemical treatments that try to kill bacteria and cover up the smell with a perfume and there are the "natural" treatments that encourage good bacteria to digest the sewage.
Odorlos and K.O. are two examples of the latter.
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Ron
2000 Camano Troll |
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Homeport: Charleston, SC
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littlebookworm
RO# 27413
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Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 20:54:15
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Question: I had pumped in some pink anti-freeze through the head into the holding tank last fall. Do I need to flush and pump it out before I can add some tratment to the head and holding tank? Will Odorlos or K.O. work with some anti-freeze in the tank, or will the anti-freeze kill the good bacteria before it can even start to grow? Hy
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Homeport: Eastport, NY
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 22:31:33
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quote:
Originally posted by rawidman
quote:
Originally posted by Capt. Bill1
All commercial head treatment contain the same ingredients or even work in the same ways.
Not really. There are the chemical treatments that try to kill bacteria and cover up the smell with a perfume and there are the "natural" treatments that encourage good bacteria to digest the sewage.
Odorlos and K.O. are two examples of the latter.
You are correct. I meant to say "NOT all". :-)
That is why the following sentence was: "So I'm sure there is something out there that would be safe to use if you wanted."
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Great, now take it to NBR. |
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 22:40:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Dusty Rhoads
As Pascal mentioned, we flush a 1/2 cup vinegar down the head before we leave boat. It helps to dissolve anything in the hoses also. I
1/2 a cup of vinegar is not enough once mixed with water to do much of anything. 1/4 to 1/2 a gallon would be more appropriate.
Once you flush it the liquid in the bowl goes all the way to the holding tank pretty quickly. So a 1/2 cup is going to do little to coat the lines and valves on the way there.
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Great, now take it to NBR. |
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 22:50:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Nancy
You have a Vacuflush? Don't even think about putting Pinesol in it! The previous owner of our F32 did that, and we ended up replacing almost every component when we bought the boat. Pinesol contains petroleum products, if I remember correctly, and it ruined the hoses, seals, vacuum tank components, pump, etc., etc. Odorlos worked well for us after getting the system straightened out.
Pine Sol is pretty benign. I find it hard to believe it could attack all those plastic and synthetic rubber parts unless you use a very large amount of it and very often.
http://www.thecloroxcompany.com/downloads/msds/commercialsolutions/cspine-solbrandcleaner.pdf
I mean some holding tank treatment have formaldehyde in them as I recall. And heads seem to handle that OK.
But there are better products to use for sure. Like KO or Tank Tamer.
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Great, now take it to NBR. |
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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RWS
RO# 25075
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Posted - Apr 22 2012 : 07:04:13
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Here's some additional information.
1) the factory 40 gallon holding tank is actually built into the hull liner between the stringers. A fiberglass lif with gelcoat on both sides is fitted to the tank and has a bafffel in the middle.
Early in my relationship with this boat which was my first experience with an onboard sanitation system, I probably used too much head treatment thius causing a breakdown of the (whatever they used) sealant used to attach the lid to the tank.
That's why after rebuilding the system I chose not to ever use any kind of harsh chemical product in the holding tank.
When i had the tanl apart I found a benign, thick sandy residue at the bottom of the tank. No this was not poop or any kind of actual feeces, waste material residue, but this was what appeared to be actual sand in a sticky mass stuch to the bottom of this long, narrow tank.
My thoughts were that the DAWN would slosh around in there and perhaps not kill the bacteria needed for waste tank biological breakdown, but rather that it would keep the duckbill valves clean and prevent any kind of buildup in the tank.
The addition of pine sol in the bilge was just by happenstance and seems to keep everything clean and fresh.
After reading the replies, I don't think i'll be using it in the holding tank.
I don't see any negative from the Dawn though........
Perhaps I will continue to do the pine sol in the bilge.........
The shower has a large fiberglass sump below a teak grate. A place where hairs of all types accumulate along with assorted tiny particles of bathroom trash and the simple 360 gph bilge pump in there cannot keep the tinng totally dry, or remove all the "debris" so I will probably add an additional shower box to the fwd bilge for the shower condensate.
RWS
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| 1983 Trojan International 10 Meter Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels |
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Homeport: FL
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Apr 22 2012 : 07:49:41
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quote:
Originally posted by RWS
Here's some additional information.
1) the factory 40 gallon holding tank is actually built into the hull liner between the stringers. A fiberglass lif with gelcoat on both sides is fitted to the tank and has a bafffel in the middle.
That might explain it. The factory made the tank and they used a sealant that was not comparable with what ever is in common head treatments.
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Great, now take it to NBR. |
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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Silver Lining
RO# 29390
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Posted - Apr 22 2012 : 21:10:06
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I put powdered tide without bleach, maybe 1/2 cup down each head every few months. This is recommended by my boat manufacturer and seems to work well. I think it does keep the lines cleaner. They also recommend hydrogen peroxide down the shower drain and sinkks into the gray water tank. I also put this in the AC drip pans every so often.
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-Rick
Viking Sport Cruiser 50FY
"Silver Lining" |
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Homeport: Chesapeake, MD
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bobalong
RO# 19429
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Posted - Apr 23 2012 : 07:52:20
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Seems like I remember a thread on here once about putting Calgon in the holding tank.
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Homeport: Sutherrrn Indianannna
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ranger42c
RO# 32710
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Posted - Apr 23 2012 : 09:26:01
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If also using an aerobic bacterial head treatment (e.g., KO) almost everything else is incompatible. Not sure how cleaning agents may react with anaerobic (septic) treatment products, enzyme treatment, fragrance treatments, etc.
Depending on fresh water source, sand or other sediment could build up over time from the freshwater supply. Using a household sediment filter when filling the tanks or when connected to the shorewater inlet could help. (We routinely do that, since 99% of our water comes from wells.)
-Chris
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Selby Bay, South River
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Edited by - ranger42c on Apr 24 2012 20:13:34 |
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Homeport: Londontowne, MD
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rawidman
RO# 25110
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Posted - Apr 23 2012 : 10:22:21
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Buy this book:
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?51996
And you won't have to ask about how to maintain your boat's sanitation system. And you won't get any wrong advice.
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Ron
2000 Camano Troll |
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Homeport: Charleston, SC
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MikeeH
RO# 6342
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Posted - Apr 23 2012 : 10:52:59
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I actually have an copy signed by Peggy. Great lady and she knows her sh1t! 
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Mike
I recently realized that at this stage of my life I'm now wise enough to know better, but old enough not to give a damn.
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Homeport: Still Pond, MD
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Capt. Bill1
RO# 2017
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Posted - Apr 23 2012 : 10:57:43
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Yes but Peggie will tell you that there is a lot of old info in there that she would like to up date one day.
And I believe your average septic system is anaerobic, not aerobic. So anything put into your aerobic tank that would kill the aerobic bacteria would be a bad thing. And to make your tank go aerobic you need to have very good air flow in and out of it or and an air pump to it.
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The two most common elements on Earth are oxygen and stupidity.
Great, now take it to NBR. |
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Homeport: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
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rawidman
RO# 25110
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Posted - Apr 23 2012 : 15:28:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Capt. Bill1
Yes but Peggie will tell you that there is a lot of old info in there that she would like to up date one day.
And I believe your average septic system is anaerobic, not aerobic. So anything put into your aerobic tank that would kill the aerobic bacteria would be a bad thing. And to make your tank go aerobic you need to have very good air flow in and out of it or and an air pump to it.
I think the word on the street is, Odorlos works better than K.O. without good air flow.
I've been using it since 2003, now on my second boat. The only real odor I have is from the raw water flush and putting a filter on the raw wate intake has helped a lot.
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Ron
2000 Camano Troll |
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Homeport: Charleston, SC
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ranger42c
RO# 32710
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Posted - Apr 24 2012 : 20:14:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Capt. Bill1
Yes but Peggie will tell you that there is a lot of old info in there that she would like to up date one day.
And I believe your average septic system is anaerobic, not aerobic. So anything put into your aerobic tank that would kill the aerobic bacteria would be a bad thing. And to make your tank go aerobic you need to have very good air flow in and out of it or and an air pump to it.
Yep, good catch, thanks... I had a typo in my note, edited now.
-Chris
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Selby Bay, South River
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Homeport: Londontowne, MD
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Dawn vs PineSol in the bilge & holding tank?
