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bdreger
RO# 7573
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 Posted - May 14 2012 : 08:40:49
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I have 2001 maxim 29' with 200 hours on twin 4.3 / V6 carberated / mercruiser / bravo2 . Both engines ran fine last week after spring commission. Yesterday after running for 1/2 hour with no problems , the starboard engine stalled . There was a vague bumping sound prior to shutdown and then it just failed. It will not start , cranks over fine . Getting gas in the carb ( I see it spray when i open the throttle . I removed #1 spark plug , held it's case to ground and see a spark when cranking the engine . The other engine runs fine and uses the same gas tank - so the gas is good- I just refueled last week. Next test would be compression , but how can that just fail ? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Bob
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Homeport: ny
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EdFitz
RO# 32779
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Posted - May 14 2012 : 08:56:25
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Timing belt?
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Ed
2001 Bayliner Ciera 245 |
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Homeport: OC, MD
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bdreger
RO# 7573
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Posted - May 14 2012 : 09:31:42
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Thanks Ed ,
I did a quick look in the service manual and it looks like I have a timing chain , not a belt . I would imagine it would make a hell of a lot of noise if that think broke in the engine ?
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Homeport: ny
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Thudpucker
RO# 10503
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Posted - May 14 2012 : 10:26:53
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I'm betting it's Timing.
Fuel is not likely the problem.
While you have that plug out, check to see the Piston is at TDC and the Timing mark is near firing position. In my Van the EFI engine fired about 8 Degrees before TDC.
I like that 4.3 for Reliability.
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| Conservative in every sense of the word. |
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Homeport: AL.
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Sandy
RO# 1159
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Posted - May 14 2012 : 12:01:40
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Was the plug wet or abnormal color? Is the choke opening fully? Did you notice any exhaust smoke or excess steam? Try spraying a little starter fluid down the throat. Will it fire with throttle open but no pumping? Do the engines have separate pickup on the tank, and if so, is the stbd one farther aft? Do you have an inductive timing light to easliy check if each of the other plugs is firing and timing as well? Check the inside of the dist. cap too.
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| Sandy |
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Homeport: The Vineyard
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jtybt15
RO# 3300
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Posted - May 14 2012 : 12:11:04
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Spark and fuel, you should fire at least. Try adding some fuel/starting fluid as sandy said. Then check the distributor.
What kind of ignition system do you have?
What carb?
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Charlie
There is much to be said, in a world like ours, for taking the world as you find it and fishing with a worm.-Bliss Perry, 1904
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Homeport: Ca
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dancerscap
RO# 20150
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Posted - May 14 2012 : 12:11:16
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Turn the engine over while watching and with rotor cap off. Insure crank and distributor are both turning. If not suspect timing chain or gear. They're not metal anymore so they don't make a lot of noise when they break. If it is a gear or chain it could bend push rods or valve stems, and when they are replaced crankcase should be flushed and filters changed a couple of times to get all the pieces out.
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Homeport: Hudson,Fl.
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EdFitz
RO# 32779
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Posted - May 14 2012 : 12:16:22
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quote:
Originally posted by bdreger
Thanks Ed ,
I did a quick look in the service manual and it looks like I have a timing chain , not a belt . I would imagine it would make a hell of a lot of noise if that think broke in the engine ?
Not necessarily. If the chain breaks, it'll just fall off and lay in the bottom of the cover.
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Ed
2001 Bayliner Ciera 245 |
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Homeport: OC, MD
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bdreger
RO# 7573
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Posted - May 14 2012 : 13:01:33
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Thanks Everyone
The plug was normal , not wet . Choke is open . Separate fuel pickups , but both equal distance from aft. I did notice a little extra steam when the engine was running out of water, but that may be normal ??
When i did the spark test it fires " approximately" on time - in other words it seems like the rotor is turning . I'll do those checks next time i get to the boat .
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Homeport: ny
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EdFitz
RO# 32779
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Posted - May 14 2012 : 13:08:09
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The timing chain may have just jumped a few sprockets, continuing to turn the rotor, albeit out of sync now.
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Ed
2001 Bayliner Ciera 245 |
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Homeport: OC, MD
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troublemaker
RO# 32512
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Posted - May 17 2012 : 15:25:01
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When i did the spark test it fires " approximately" on time - in other words it seems like the rotor is turning . I'll do those checks next time i get to the boat .
When checking spark test it should fire all the time not once, check your coil it might be failing.
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| TM |
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Homeport: British Columbia
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jtybt15
RO# 3300
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Posted - May 17 2012 : 17:49:17
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Could be no oil or no oil pressure registering on the sending unit which will cut out the ignition or fuel(if electric fuel pump)
It's also possible that 'bumping' sound was some mechanical break down.
What you have to do now is really get down and check the fuel spraying in the carb more than just one time. Same with the spark. Like I said before, you got spark and fuel, you should at least get something, unless it WAY out of time...as in broken/spun dist shaft/gear or timing chain. Pull a valve cover to make sure the valves are moving(timing chain good) as it turns over.
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Charlie
There is much to be said, in a world like ours, for taking the world as you find it and fishing with a worm.-Bliss Perry, 1904
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Homeport: Ca
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troublemaker
RO# 32512
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Posted - May 17 2012 : 19:57:24
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If you timing chain broke you would not have any spark at your plugs and your rotor would not turn. Now is the motor out of time quick check is to bring #1 piston up to TDC and check your timing marks on your harmonic balancer also check the position of the rotor see if it is also pointing to the #1 post inside the cap.
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| TM |
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Homeport: British Columbia
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Carvervirgin
RO# 32836
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Posted - May 17 2012 : 21:18:00
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This maybe a stupid comment but it happened to me once. Is there a safety lanyard kill switch that was knocked off ?
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Bucket List, 2001Carver 356
Lake Champlain, Vermont
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Homeport:
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jtybt15
RO# 3300
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Posted - May 17 2012 : 21:26:38
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Ah! Slipped my mind. The dist is run off the cam. Broken chain, cam no turn, dist no turn.
What ign system? TB IV or TB V ??
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Charlie
There is much to be said, in a world like ours, for taking the world as you find it and fishing with a worm.-Bliss Perry, 1904
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Homeport: Ca
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bdreger
RO# 7573
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Posted - May 18 2012 : 13:52:09
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thanks everyone
the marina mechanic took a look at it and says the spark is too weak for the engine to start - he suspects either the coil or electronic ignition module is bad. i keep you guys updated when i find the problem.
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Homeport: ny
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bdreger
RO# 7573
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Posted - May 29 2012 : 09:40:45
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So the mechanic replaced the coil and the engine started OK. I ran the engine for 10 minutes at the dock before heading out . Within 5 minutes of leaving the dock , the engine dies again and will not restart . I re-checked spark at plug #1 - is good. I cleaned the distro cap / rotor - looks ok . I swapped electronic ignition module with port engine , checked compression is OK on #1 , sprayed starter fluid in carb - still will not start - not even a single plug firing or backfiring - no sign of any combustion.
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Homeport: ny
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Thudpucker
RO# 10503
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Posted - May 29 2012 : 09:55:58
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It'd be interesting to see if the Coil he took off, would work again.
He may have refreshed a connection when he replaced the coil, so it seemed the coil was the answer.
So now it's dead again, not the Computer, not the coil...
My next move would be to 'hot wire' the Obnoxious, Expletive deleted, bugger!
I'd look to see if some of the Computer inputs are the problem. Fuel pressure relay, Temp sensor, Oil pressure sensor....whatever else.
Put the Expletive Deleted Computer on the other engine to check it.
Swap all the easy stuff, one at a time, till you find the SOB.
The worst problem I had with my 4.3 was spark plugs. It acted like everything associated with that engine was wrong, but it was only the plugs.
That might be worth a try.
PS: Use "Carb Cleaner" as a starting fluid.
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| Conservative in every sense of the word. |
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Homeport: AL.
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j-d
RO# 15782
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Posted - May 29 2012 : 10:16:27
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He says his 4.3s are carbed engines.
OP - Do the engines have mechanical block-mounted fuel pumps?
Is there an inlet filter in the carburetor? What condition?
Other filter(s)? What condition?
Fuel tank vent open?
Fuel tank Anti-Siphon Valve OK?
Perhaps just an aside, but our MerC EFI fills its Vapor Separator Tank (VST, where the electric high pressure pump that feeds the TBI injectors is) with a block-mounted mechanical pump. That mechanical pump failed to the point where if cold it'd start the boat and run it till it'd been shut down awhile. I can only figure that then, engine heat soaked into the pump and it vapor locked. Don't run out and buy parts yet, but a new mechanical pump cured it.
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God Bless, jd
1996 Sea Ray 215EC
Alpha One GEN II 5.7L/350CID/EFI/220HP
14-1/2*19 Stainless RWC
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Homeport: Sunny Florida
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bdreger
RO# 7573
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Posted - Jun 01 2012 : 15:45:52
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Well - the marina mechanic claims the distro cap is bad - waiting to hear if he replaced it and that fixed it. we'll see.
to answer above - the engines use electric fuel pumps , fuel vent is clean , no inlet filters at carb . to recap - I see a nice spray of fuel into the carb throat when the accelerator is opened - also starter fluid did nothing - i'll have more updates this weekend .
thanks to everyone for their inputs - much appreciated !!
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Homeport: ny
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bdreger
RO# 7573
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Posted - Jun 04 2012 : 08:50:05
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So - starboard engine runs ok now- they replaced the cap AND the coil again . their theory is either the first coil was defective or the bad cap caused it fail. great - however after running again for 1/2 hour the other engine ( port ) dies. same symptom as the first - as i started to accelerate it fails and will not restart . the seas were too rough even at the dock to investigate , but it sounds exactly like the first problem . --Cranks good, no sign of ignition. Is this too much of a coincidence ??? i'm going to change the cap, coil , rotor and plugs before I call in the marina guys again ( rb2rb2@gr5tgr5t $105 / hour this is getting costly) . a major tuneup may be in order - i'm also thinking- bad fuel ?? when i accelerate the boat changes its plane and could be sucking in water from the bottom of the tank??? -- could it be vapor lock ?? stupid me didn't try opening the fill cap . maybe the higher spark from the new coil overcomes these issues on the working engine ??? what a bummer this season is turning out to be
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Homeport: ny
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