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Roy
RO# 114
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 Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 07:56:01
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Many folks on this forum have said that they would not consider an iPad/Dual Electronics XGPS150 combination to replace a "real" chartplotter, be it a Garmin or Ray or whatever. Would you please tell me exactly what characteristics of this combination make it unsuitable as a primary chartplotter.
Thanks..............Roy
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"Livin' life in the laid back lane" - Sunny Jim
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Homeport: Sarasota FL
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manticore999
RO# 17103
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 08:17:07
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My Ipad is ky primary chartplotter. I have a hand-held unit I use as a backup. Works just fine and is a hell of a lot cheaper than a large display chartplotter.
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| I'm not afraid to die. I'm afraid to be alive without being aware of it. |
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Homeport: Oakley, CA
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lark
RO# 26900
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 08:49:13
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IMHO these reasons:
Visibilty, yes you can see it but its not as good as my chartplotter
Water resistance, I don't think the Ipad can survive a good soaking, my chart plotter is often rained on with no ill effects
Mounting, you really can't mount an Ipad securily in your helm. Especilly since you want to use it as an Ipad when not boating. You will be holding it your hands while trying to helm the boat.
I'm a lake boater, so a chartplotter failure would be only an inconvience, I can always find my way back with a simple chart. If I didn't already have a chartplotter, I would consider using my Ipad, but in a real ocean scenario, no way.
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walterv
RO# 12640
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rnbenton
RO# 31163
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 09:17:13
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My main reason for not using it as primary is because of rain/water concerns. On the very rare occasions that I operate from the lower helm I use it as my primary since it's inside. Up on the bridge I always use the Chartplotter and keep the iPad handy (in a protected compartment) for Active Captain information.
Bob
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Captain, Sea Tow Central Florida, St. Johns River
Key West 196 Bay Reef, 150 Yamaha
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Homeport: Palm Coast, FL
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abalmuth
RO# 13885
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 09:45:39
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Ok, so there are multiple issues.
First is the iPad/Dual Electronics XGPS150 combination accurate as a 'Real' chartplotter
and second is it practical to use it as a primary chartplotter
I find the iPad/Dual Electronics XGPS150 combination as accurate as my Garmin PC based system & 2 Northstar systems. Maybe better than the Northstars as they are 7+ years old.
As I run from a lower helm I have no issues with viewing etc.
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Cruisers 5000 Sedan Sport/CAT 12LTR's -
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright
until you hear them speak......... |
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Homeport: Long Island, NY
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manticore999
RO# 17103
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 09:52:36
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I have a waterproof case for my ipad so water isn't an issue. Besides, my bridge is about 15 feet off the water - if it's that bad on the Delta I'm not likely to be out in it! I have a great place on the helm where it sits securely. As for accuracy, I've found to be just as accurate as my Garmin hand-held unit. Brightness can be a bitch, to be sure, but with the screen turned all the way up it's not a problem. I'll settle for slightly less visible to save 3 or 4 thousand!
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| I'm not afraid to die. I'm afraid to be alive without being aware of it. |
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Homeport: Oakley, CA
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 09:57:02
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Another iPad thread?
As beaten to death on a weekly basis, It just comes down to what kind of boat you have... Basically in a smaller open boat, visibility and lack of water resistance is going to be an issue whereas on a larger boat an iPad will be just fine in an enclosed environment
As to functionality and accuracy, I find no benefit to stand alone plotters. Actually since iPad gives you access to nav software that supports active captain data and also make it someway to update charts, I think it has an edge over plotters. This is true for laptops as well
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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folieadeux
RO# 27326
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 12:50:59
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Here is one of the simplest mounting systems for holding a iPad in a cup holder that I have seen. Just use a basic piece of 3" PVC plumbing pipe and cut a couple of notches in the pipe. Install the 360 degree swivel mount on the back of your iPad and presto, it sits right at your helm very easily It is not the best looking, but it sure is cheap !! Paint it white, install a top and call it "marine" so it is worth 3X more !
The case for the iPad that has a very multi-purpose handle on the back of the case.
https://www.speckproducts dot com / tablet...hell-grey . html
Also available from Amazon & a bunch of others. You can hang it in either landscape or portrait.
SeaSucker also makes a simple mount but it is a few bucks more than the DIY PVC model:
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Neal and Barbara
Savannah,GA
"Olive or Twist" 2006 Meridian 391 T-Cummins 380QSB, Onan 9K |
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Homeport: Savannah.GA
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CurrentSea
RO# 10265
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 14:50:24
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Does the XGPS150 require a ipad on 3g?
I also heard there is a product called iNavX?
I would be interested in doing this a backup plotter but I am thinking the ipad needs 3g, correct?
Or I guess I could tether to iphone.
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2009 Regal 4080
Volvo Diesel IPS |
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Homeport: Anchorage YC - Lindenhurst, NY
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abalmuth
RO# 13885
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 15:02:05
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The XGPS150 is a bluetooth WAAS GPS that work with just about everything-iEverything,droid, PC etc- no 3G needed
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Cruisers 5000 Sedan Sport/CAT 12LTR's -
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright
until you hear them speak......... |
Edited by - abalmuth on Jun 05 2012 15:05:08 |
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Homeport: Long Island, NY
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rnbenton
RO# 31163
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 15:02:44
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quote:
Originally posted by CurrentSea
Does the XGPS150 require a ipad on 3g?
No. It is Blue Tooth.
Bob
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Captain, Sea Tow Central Florida, St. Johns River
Key West 196 Bay Reef, 150 Yamaha
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Edited by - rnbenton on Jun 05 2012 15:03:55 |
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Homeport: Palm Coast, FL
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CurrentSea
RO# 10265
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 15:57:11
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So to do this and sorry if I stole this thread, you need a IPAD, XGPS150 and charts?
What charts?
Thanks!
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2009 Regal 4080
Volvo Diesel IPS |
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Homeport: Anchorage YC - Lindenhurst, NY
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 16:06:14
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When using apps (iPad, iPhone, droid, etc) charts are included with the app and updated thru the apps. You don't have to get the nav program and the charts separately as you do with a PC
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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CurrentSea
RO# 10265
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 16:10:05
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So what App?
XGPS150 comes with a APP?
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2009 Regal 4080
Volvo Diesel IPS |
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Homeport: Anchorage YC - Lindenhurst, NY
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rnbenton
RO# 31163
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 16:21:01
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quote:
Originally posted by CurrentSea
So what App?
XGPS150 comes with a APP?
I have Navionics, Navimatics and eSeacharts. The later 2 have the Active Captain data base included.
Bob
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Captain, Sea Tow Central Florida, St. Johns River
Key West 196 Bay Reef, 150 Yamaha
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Homeport: Palm Coast, FL
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abalmuth
RO# 13885
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 17:30:02
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quote:
Originally posted by rnbenton
quote:
Originally posted by CurrentSea
So what App?
XGPS150 comes with a APP?
I have Navionics, Navimatics and eSeacharts. The later 2 have the Active Captain data base included.
Bob
And if all those apps cost more than $40-$60, it's would be a lot! Compared to PC based systems, never mind fixed systems, the apps costs
are nothing
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Cruisers 5000 Sedan Sport/CAT 12LTR's -
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright
until you hear them speak......... |
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Homeport: Long Island, NY
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 19:35:48
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"Compared to PC based systems, never mind fixed systems, the apps costs are nothing"
PolarNavy for PC is under $50, OpenCPN is free. Charts are free as well.
As to apps: I use navimatic charts n tides as well as eSeaChart. Forgot the price, but very cheap. I dont have navionics but many here seem to like it
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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CurrentSea
RO# 10265
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 19:43:06
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So you need ipad, xgps150 and one of those apps u named?
I am goona get this as a backup.
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2009 Regal 4080
Volvo Diesel IPS |
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Homeport: Anchorage YC - Lindenhurst, NY
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Roy
RO# 114
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 20:00:33
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OK - Pascal - I promise not to start any more iPad threads. And I thank all who gave their thoughts. All the issues raised are not new to me, and I think, at least for me, I can live with them. I think the iPad/Dual combi is the way I'll go. It seems to cost less than a "real" chartplotter and it has more function, features (supplied by apps) and is more versatile.
Thanks..................Roy
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"Livin' life in the laid back lane" - Sunny Jim
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Homeport: Sarasota FL
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CurrentSea
RO# 10265
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 20:09:59
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So what is the best app to use?
Seems there are a few
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2009 Regal 4080
Volvo Diesel IPS |
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Homeport: Anchorage YC - Lindenhurst, NY
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Jun 05 2012 : 20:58:44
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See above...
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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CurrentSea
RO# 10265
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 11:50:43
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Ok I bought a xgps150, now I just need to get the app.
I wanted a spare gps and was looking at it but with no dash room, it would have to mount above, which I hate.
If I can do the ipad, which is always on boat, with a suction mount, app, and xgps, that solves the issue for alot less cost.
For navigation I will still use my Raymarine, but I wanted a backup of that ever fritz's out at the wrong time!
So now the app decision comes?
I read about navionics and some opinions say it only works with 3g or wifi.
I want a app that requires neither and works just with the xgps, right?
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2009 Regal 4080
Volvo Diesel IPS |
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Homeport: Anchorage YC - Lindenhurst, NY
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jmeirhofer
RO# 30972
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 12:33:11
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That is not true at all. You need one or the other to download the chart initially but after that it is stored on the device.
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John
1997 Trojan 440 Express
"Son, I've got a very low bull$*%t tolerance" -- Pancho Carter
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Homeport: Baltimore, MD
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CurrentSea
RO# 10265
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 13:58:16
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Ok, I get it now.
So the app just takes the lag and lon from the xgps150 and plots your position on maps it has already stored.
So I need wifi to download app and charts.
I also need to make sure I have room for all the charts on the ipad.
In the end, it really is using the same concept that your expensive chartplotter is using.
Wow, this will kill the chartplotter industry!
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2009 Regal 4080
Volvo Diesel IPS |
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Homeport: Anchorage YC - Lindenhurst, NY
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Billylll
RO# 24494
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 14:04:08
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quote:
Originally posted by CurrentSea
Ok, I get it now.
So the app just takes the lag and lon from the xgps150 and plots your position on maps it has already stored.
So I need wifi to download app and charts.
I also need to make sure I have room for all the charts on the ipad.
In the end, it really is using the same concept that your expensive chartplotter is using.
Wow, this will kill the chartplotter industry!
It will not put a dent in the chartplotter business Dave, MFD's and NMEA2000 networks need plotters to display and control radar, depth, sonar, real time AIS I could go on. The IPad may compliment a network but it will never replace the MFD/Chartplotter.
Bill
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WirelessOne,
40 Mainship
Sedan Bridge
Little Egg, N.J. |
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Homeport: Tuckerton, N.J.
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Mantle107
RO# 32629
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 15:10:49
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Also, if you have the iPad with 3G you don't need the dual gps receiver. You don't need to have 3G service activated, but I specifically bought the 3G iPad bc it has the gps receiver built in. I have never needed to use the 3G service yet, but it is theoretically nice to have.
You will need an Internet connection to download the apps / charts, so do that from home over wifi before you leave...make sure to download all the charts you will need before hitting the water.
I also have a waterproof case for the iPad and "suction cup" mounts for it. Works phenomenal and protects from the elements. I now use that as my primary navigation and the Garmin chart plotter as a backup.
Let me know if there are any other questions.
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"Searching"
2003 Four Winns 268 - Sold
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Homeport: NY
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jmeirhofer
RO# 30972
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 15:13:44
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Until they come out with a blue tooth radar I agree with Billy. But then they have begun to develop Bluetooth depth sounders so who knows. There are also AIS apps out there.
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John
1997 Trojan 440 Express
"Son, I've got a very low bull$*%t tolerance" -- Pancho Carter
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Homeport: Baltimore, MD
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Billylll
RO# 24494
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 15:17:42
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The AIS apps have a time delay unless the IPad is hooked through WiFi to you network. You are also dependent on shore based systems that may not see what your boat's AIS would see.
Bill
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WirelessOne,
40 Mainship
Sedan Bridge
Little Egg, N.J. |
Edited by - Billylll on Jun 06 2012 15:45:11 |
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Homeport: Tuckerton, N.J.
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jmeirhofer
RO# 30972
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 15:26:36
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Here is a site that talks a lot about them.
http://www.panbo.com/archives/2010/05/the_damn_ipad_inavx_x-traverse_navimatics_ac.html
I am currently using the Motorola Xoom (wifi only) with navionics us east coast. It has built in GPS so I do not have a puck either. The last trip I took I laid it over the chart plotter. I found it easier to read, more informative and quicker at tracking. Of course my chart plotter is about 10 y/o too.
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John
1997 Trojan 440 Express
"Son, I've got a very low bull$*%t tolerance" -- Pancho Carter
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Homeport: Baltimore, MD
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 15:29:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Billylll
quote:
Originally posted by CurrentSea
Ok, I get it now.
So the app just takes the lag and lon from the xgps150 and plots your position on maps it has already stored.
So I need wifi to download app and charts.
I also need to make sure I have room for all the charts on the ipad.
In the end, it really is using the same concept that your expensive chartplotter is using.
Wow, this will kill the chartplotter industry!
It will not put a dent in the chartplotter business Dave, MFD's and NMEA2000 networks need plotters to display and control radar, depth, sonar, real time AIS I could go on. The IPad may compliment a network but it will never replace the MFD/Chartplotter.
Bill
not sure i agree... it may not replace an MFD but it can replace a stand alone plotter for those like me who like the simplicity of non networked electronics with stand alone sounder and radar
on the other hand, the new Ray system with built in Wifi which can send plotter, radar,depth output to an iOS device certainly makes an iPad into an MFD.
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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abalmuth
RO# 13885
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 16:22:19
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I think you guys trying to compare the 3G iPad with gps receiver built in vs. a full WAAS GPS like the Duel may be mis informed as to the levels of accuracy of your stock 3g units have. Its nowhere close to a WAAS GPS
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Cruisers 5000 Sedan Sport/CAT 12LTR's -
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright
until you hear them speak......... |
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Homeport: Long Island, NY
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jmeirhofer
RO# 30972
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 16:26:55
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As for accuracy, it is pretty much spot on to my slip -
And for information, it does give you a lot. Marinas, photos, plus the normal stuff.
You can also download your tracks to Facebook or send as email. It sends as a Google earth file so friends or family don't need navionics to view.
My wifi Droid was $599. The new Droid with bigger screen and faster processor, etc., is only $499.
The ipad is not that much more expensive.
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John
1997 Trojan 440 Express
"Son, I've got a very low bull$*%t tolerance" -- Pancho Carter
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Homeport: Baltimore, MD
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 16:33:11
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quote:
Originally posted by abalmuth
I think you guys trying to compare the 3G iPad with gps receiver built in vs. a full WAAS GPS like the Duel may be mis informed as to the levels of accuracy of your stock 3g units have. Its nowhere close to a WAAS GPS
I ve logged around 20k miles using a non WAAS Bluetooth receiver and found it very accurate, never noticed any significant difference with the WAAS plotter
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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abalmuth
RO# 13885
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 16:45:30
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I stand(sit) corected
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Cruisers 5000 Sedan Sport/CAT 12LTR's -
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright
until you hear them speak......... |
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Homeport: Long Island, NY
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CurrentSea
RO# 10265
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 17:42:52
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What is the opinion on inavx app?
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2009 Regal 4080
Volvo Diesel IPS |
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Homeport: Anchorage YC - Lindenhurst, NY
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Mantle107
RO# 32629
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 17:57:18
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I too have not had any issues regarding accuracy with the non WAAS gps receiver. Just no screen shots to prove it, but it is much more accurate than I anticipated. Thought I might have to buy an external receiver, but have not even thought about it since setting it up.
Haven't used inavx, only eSeacharts. They are good, just the chart switching is a little finicky for me. Going to give navimatics a shot this weekend and will report back.
If you have a Ray system that will interace with the iOS device I think that would be the most preferred setup. However, with my iPad costing 750 pus the almost negligible cost of the apps it is a great system.
We use it all the time and just bring it with us on the boat. I bought the iPad and used boat nav as a way to justify it to myself bc the screen is so much bigger than the little Garmin. I use it literally 7 days a week, so even if you don't like it for navigation, I don't think you can go with purchasing one. The suction cup setup even works on the kitchen countertops and we got a cookbook app. It will stay to the side of the stove perfectly. If you have optimum cable you can watch tv anyplace in your house - ie: if you don't have a tv in the bathroom you now do (fwiw)
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"Searching"
2003 Four Winns 268 - Sold
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Homeport: NY
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CurrentSea
RO# 10265
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 18:10:36
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Like I said, I had trouble with gps last week nto getting a fix while underway.
Chased it down to a lose wire but underway it stinks if u don't have a backup.
Always need a backup.
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2009 Regal 4080
Volvo Diesel IPS |
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Homeport: Anchorage YC - Lindenhurst, NY
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 18:21:58
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I like iNavx, been using it for a couple of years. It has all the features one needs, NOAA raster charts, past tracks (breadcrums) but you have to manually change charts (no seamless stitching)
eSeaChart also uses NOAA raster charts, has seamless stitching and active captain data (offline). But it doesn't show past tracks and sometimes the automatic chart loading gets a little confused. For instance if you re scrolling a large chart the edge it may load up a detailed chart at the edge. Not a big deal if you re just navigating with your area, a little annoying when scrolling large distances
Navimatic charts n tides has tracks, reliable seamless loading, active captain data but uses vector charts :(.
Unlike eSeaChart, navimatic lets you update active captain data from the app, a big plus if you want to share data with fellow boaters
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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CurrentSea
RO# 10265
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 18:42:38
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Ok stupid quesiton, what is difference between raster and vector charts?
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2009 Regal 4080
Volvo Diesel IPS |
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Homeport: Anchorage YC - Lindenhurst, NY
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JZ
RO# 11176
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 18:47:31
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My phone is a Samsung Galaxy Note. I find it easier to use then my portable Garmin. The app is pretty bad ass if you ask me.
For lake boating at Lake Mead (110 miles long) it's accurate enough w/o an external GPS.
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Homeport: Camarillo, CA
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Roy
RO# 114
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 19:52:44
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Ipads may not replace big MFDs for you guys with big boats and lots of electronics all net-worked together, but I think for the little guy, iPads may very well replace dedicated chartplotters.
Roy
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"Livin' life in the laid back lane" - Sunny Jim
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Homeport: Sarasota FL
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 20:09:22
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Raster looks exactly like paper charts... Vector do not. Look at the app screen shots, you ll see the difference
Roy, actually i think that of larger boats with upper/lower helms, using an iPad at the lower helm makes a lot of sense, and keeping conventional MFDs upstairs whereas on a smaller boat protection and limited space may favor an MFD
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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jmeirhofer
RO# 30972
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 20:29:10
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At any rate it will bode well for the consumer as the MFD makers will have to give price considerations if they want to stay in business.
BTW - The new motorola xoom is water resistant.
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John
1997 Trojan 440 Express
"Son, I've got a very low bull$*%t tolerance" -- Pancho Carter
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Homeport: Baltimore, MD
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getakey
RO# 32379
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 21:05:03
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quote:
Originally posted by PascalG
Raster looks exactly like paper charts... Vector do not. Look at the app screen shots, you ll see the difference
Roy, actually i think that of larger boats with upper/lower helms, using an iPad at the lower helm makes a lot of sense, and keeping conventional MFDs upstairs whereas on a smaller boat protection and limited space may favor an MFD
I was trying to figure out the frown next to vector in your post. Don't you prefer vector?
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Homeport: CA
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PascalG
RO# 12212
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 21:10:14
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Personal preference I guess but I prefer raster
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Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper
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Homeport: Miami, FL
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getakey
RO# 32379
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Posted - Jun 06 2012 : 21:12:28
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Interesting
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Homeport: CA
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rnbenton
RO# 31163
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Posted - Jun 07 2012 : 07:13:06
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quote:
Originally posted by PascalG
Personal preference I guess but I prefer raster
+1
Bob
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Captain, Sea Tow Central Florida, St. Johns River
Key West 196 Bay Reef, 150 Yamaha
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Homeport: Palm Coast, FL
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Stratocaster
RO# 5509
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Posted - Jun 08 2012 : 04:51:45
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I have a center console, so it's wide open. While I have a Furuno MFC nicely installed in the helm, I use the iPad simply because the Navionics app's charts for Bermuda are 100x better than the Navionics chip for the plotter.
I keep the iPad in a DryPak DPC-1216 soft waterproof sleeve, which keeps it bone dry and still allows me to use the touchscreen. The DryPak was $16.00.
Yes, viewing in direct sunlight is poor, but it's a small price to pay for the convenience and simplicity of this app.
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Mike P.
2001 Cobia 194 Center Console, 150 Yamaha 2 stroke. |
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Homeport: Southampton, Bermuda
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CurrentSea
RO# 10265
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Posted - Jun 08 2012 : 10:37:05
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My XGPS150 came today.
Charging now.
Will report back on my results.
Guess I need to buy a chart app too.
Looked at them, I do say I prefer raster as well. Vector looks cartoonish.
Leaning towards inavx but eseachart is nice for money.
Would like prior tracks saved though.
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2009 Regal 4080
Volvo Diesel IPS |
Edited by - CurrentSea on Jun 08 2012 10:51:36 |
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Homeport: Anchorage YC - Lindenhurst, NY
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CurrentSea
RO# 10265
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Follow up iPad question
