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Shore
RO# 11418
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 10:59:57
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Dual batteries and dual standard Perko switches on twin outboards. 2000 Johnson 225's
1 starting
1 deep
I just put a new starting in to replace a dead one.
As it sits, both batteries have to be on to crank both engines. While things work, I'm wanting to know if this is correct or a better idea is possible.
1 engine running, both switches on 13v+, both engines running 14+. When I start that 2nd engine the needle certainly increases. I want to say in the 14.5 range at high idle on the hose. 1300 or so. I just never saw the Volts this high.
Here is how it is wired currently.
Switch 1 is a ON/OFF..to engine 1
Switch 2 is a 1/2/all/off...to engine 2
Batt 1 is a deep..to engine 1
Batt 2 is a starting...to engine 2
Switch1---
Left lead>engine
Middle lead>Pos Batt1
Right lead>Left lead of 2nd switch
Engine lead> Neg Batt 1
Switch 2--
Left lead>right lead of switch 1
Middle lead>engine
Right lead> Pos Batt 2
Engine lead> Neg Batt 2
Ground cable from Neg Batt 1 to Neg Batt 2
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Edited by - Shore on Jun 13 2012 11:54:28
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Homeport: Port Orange Florida
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Billylll
RO# 24494
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 12:02:24
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Why do you have negative leads to the manual battery switches?
I'm not understanding your Engine lead> Neg Batt 1 & Engine lead> Neg Batt 2
I think you mean battery #1 follows switch #1 the negative going to the engine block?
The same for battery #2? In addition you have the grounds tied together.
You do not want to connect both alternators together without a centerfielder or isolating the alternators charge wires or you will severly limit your charging current.
Bill
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WirelessOne,
40 Mainship
Sedan Bridge
Little Egg, N.J. |
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Homeport: Tuckerton, N.J.
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Billylll
RO# 24494
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 12:05:47
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I just read that you mention having outboards what type of outboard engines? Many have a hard time charging large batteries but not all. What is the maximum amps a single outboard can generate in your set up?
Bill
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WirelessOne,
40 Mainship
Sedan Bridge
Little Egg, N.J. |
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Homeport: Tuckerton, N.J.
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Shore
RO# 11418
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 12:29:25
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99 Johnson 225's. Carb'd. I believe 35amps for these engines.
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Homeport: Port Orange Florida
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Shore
RO# 11418
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 Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 12:34:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Billylll
Why do you have negative leads to the manual battery switches?
I'm not understanding your Engine lead> Neg Batt 1 & Engine lead> Neg Batt 2
I think you mean battery #1 follows switch #1 the negative going to the engine block?
The same for battery #2? In addition you have the grounds tied together.
You do not want to connect both alternators together without a centerfielder or isolating the alternators charge wires or you will severly limit your charging current.
Bill
Maybe I'm missing something. I do not see any neg to the either switches? All cales to the switches are the White marked cables. Even the cable that ties switch 1 to switch 2 is has the white line.
These are factory OMC battery cables. They are solid black but the POS has a white stripe.
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Homeport: Port Orange Florida
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Shore
RO# 11418
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 12:50:41
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Here are the switches and batteries. The lead from the engine(solid black) back is the neg from the starter mount. The Pos(black white stripe) to the engine goes to the soleniod.
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Homeport: Port Orange Florida
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Pa Mikee
RO# 32785
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 13:33:40
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The pictures of the switches are helpful but without knowing what lugs they connect to on the back of the switch makes it almost impossible to know exactly how they are suppose to work in your setup.
On switch 1, I assume the engine and the lead going to switch 2 are on the same lug. On Switch 2 I assume the common leg is going to the other engine. Here is what should happen in the various positions of the switches; 8 possible scenarios.
Switch 1 off
Switch 2 off
no engines start, no recharing of battery(s)
Switch 1 on
Switch 2 off
Only the engine connected to that switch starts and charges that battery
Switch 1 on
Switch 2 turned to make contact from switch 1 to other engine
both engines will start and will try to charge the battery on switch 1
Switch 1 on
Switch 2 turned to make contact between engine its connected to and the battery its connected to.
Both engines will start off their own battery and be isolated from each other.
Switch 1 on
Switch 2 turned to the All posistion
This paralles the batteries. Both engines start and they both try to charge the batteries.
Switch 1 off
Switch 2 turned to make contact from switch 1 to other engine
no engines start due neither switch connecting to a battery
Switch 1 off
Switch 2 turned to make contact between engine its connected to and the battery its connected to.
Only the engine connected to switch 2 will start and it will recharge only the battery connected to switch 2.
Switch 1 off
Switch 2 turned to the All posistion
Both engines will start off the battery connected to switch 2 and will try to recharge only that battery.
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Homeport:
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Shore
RO# 11418
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 14:25:49
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ok, here is the back of the switches.
Switch 1-- #1 and Common terminals
Common from #2 switch to #1 on switch 1.
ALSO, #1 to POS Batt #1
Common to engine #1 POS
Switch #2-- 1 & 2 common terminals
Batt #2 POS goes to #1 terminal
Terminal #2 gos to switch #1
middle common goes to engine #2 POS
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Homeport: Port Orange Florida
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Billylll
RO# 24494
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 14:29:27
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It might be easier if you explain what you are trying to accomplish?
Are you limited to the 2 batteries you have as well as the switches?
Thanks,
Bill
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WirelessOne,
40 Mainship
Sedan Bridge
Little Egg, N.J. |
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Homeport: Tuckerton, N.J.
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Michael Clemensen
RO# 2006
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 14:34:14
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Agree with all but two scenario’s.
Switch 1 off
Switch 2 turned to make contact from switch 1 to other engine
no engines start due neither switch connecting to a battery Engine 2 will start from battery 1 and charge only battery 1
Switch 1 off
Switch 2 turned to the All posistion
Both engines will start off the battery connected to switch 2 and will try to recharge only that battery. Only engine 2 will start off both paralleled batteries and both batteries will charge. With switch 1 in “OFF” there is no way to get Battery power to engine 1.
Here's how I would "normally" place the switches, #1 to "ON" and #2 to Position 1, I'd re-label Switch #2 Position 2 as Battery 1 and Change the "ALL" to "TIE" Corrected error on labeling
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Edited by - Michael Clemensen on Jun 13 2012 15:16:42 |
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Homeport: Winthrop Harbor, Illinois
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Shore
RO# 11418
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 14:38:04
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At the moment, I'm just trying to make sure this is not wrong in a way it will hurt something.
Not really wanting a 3rd battery.
What got me going was the increase in voltage at the dash gauge when both engine where running vs 1 running.
Right now each switch lets each engine run. The #1 switch allows the #1 engine to run, the #2 switch allows engine #2 to run.
Seems switch #2(1/2/all/off) could handle all this. I have no idea why switch #1 is there.
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Homeport: Port Orange Florida
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Shore
RO# 11418
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 14:45:25
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BTW, thx for taking the time to help guys.
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Homeport: Port Orange Florida
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Shore
RO# 11418
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 14:52:42
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It seems I have 3 jobs that need to be done.
1. House battery to run radio/electronics etc.
2. Port engine to start
3. SB engine to start
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Homeport: Port Orange Florida
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Michael Clemensen
RO# 2006
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 14:56:09
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Do you have Dual voltmeters at the helm or a switch to read both systems? If not which system is the voltmeter connected to? I wouldn’t run both engine alternators connected together without some form of isolation.
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Homeport: Winthrop Harbor, Illinois
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Shore
RO# 11418
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 15:16:07
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dual volt gauges.
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Homeport: Port Orange Florida
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Michael Clemensen
RO# 2006
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 15:32:17
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Okay after digesting all the above I think it’s wired fine as is BUT here’s how I’d operate the switches.
Battery #1 is a Starting Battery.
Battery #2 is a Deep Cycle Battery.
Connect ALL Radio/Electronics loads to Battery #2.
Operation:
Both Switches In OFF.
Start Power Plant #2 First.
To start Power Plant #2 turn Switch #2 to the present position labeled 2 which is connected to starting battery #1, Start power plant #2 then Turn Switch #2 to present position labeled as 1 Now the house loads are being charged by Power Plant #2
Start Power Plant #1
To start Power Plant #1 turn Switch #1 to On, Start Power Plant #1.
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Homeport: Winthrop Harbor, Illinois
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Shore
RO# 11418
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 15:35:06
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SB engine is #1 Batt #1 Switch #1(on/off)Deep cycle
Port engine is #2 Batt #2 Switch # 2 (1/2/all/off)Starting
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Homeport: Port Orange Florida
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Radioactive
RO# 3238
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 15:36:22
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May I politely suggest that you make a wire diagram. You can use MS Paint ( free on your PC tower w/ Windoze ). Then make a chart showing what is active ( and in what way ) for each switch position.
In this case, a diagram and a chart would go a long way toward making a plate of black spaghetti easier to understand. Just MHO, of course, but it is how I would approach it.
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Bill
"No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Bonzai
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats." - Kenneth Grahame |
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Homeport: MS Gulf Coast
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alien1952
RO# 32487
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 15:54:31
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each motor should have its own battery,period. A simple way to wire this is:
remove everything first
get 2 perco switches labled OFF- 1- BOTH -2
locate motor #1 cables ,locate motor #2 cables
motor #1 neg to batt #1 neg
motor #2 neg lead to batt #2 neg
batt cable from neg #1 to neg #2
batt #1 positive to position #1 on perko switch
common of perco switch to motor #1 cable
batt #2 positive to position #1 on perco switch
common of perco switch to motor #2 cable
batt cable to #2 positions of both switches
Normal position is both on #1 position, eack motor has a battery not combined with each other.
both-both position connects both batteries together to start 1 motor.
this way your gauges and charging systems are not bucking eack other when the motors are running.
You did get twins for the safety factor, why connect everything together and kill both batteries
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Homeport: nj
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Shore
RO# 11418
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 16:22:00
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ok, here's what I come up with.
switch 1 lets engine 1 charge Batt 1, that is the on/off switch. This switch runs a jumper to switch 2 on position 2.
switch 2 gives the option. On position 1 it lets engine 2 charge batt 2. On ALL or 2 it parallels both batteries.
What I need to be doing is leaving switch 2 on position 1 to seperate the batteries, if the need to parallel them comes, I can put switch 2 on all or 2 to use batt 1.
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Homeport: Port Orange Florida
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Michael Clemensen
RO# 2006
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 17:09:18
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I would wire and use it as I stated above. Connect the deep cycle onto the Perko Switch # 2 (1/2/all/off) with the Radio/Electronics/House loads and the Starting battery onto the Perko Switch #1(on/off) and always start the power plant that’s connected to Switch # 2 (1/2/all/off) first with it switched to Position 2 which is the starting battery #1 then switch it to position 1 prior to starting the power plant that’s connected to Switch #1(on/off).
This will utilize the starting battery for the starting of both power plants and use the deep cycle for the radio/electronics/house loads.
In your above analogy I've corrected it in green below:
switch 1 lets engine 1 charge Batt 1, that is the on/off switch. This switch runs a jumper to switch 2 on position 2.
switch 2 gives the option. On position 1 it lets engine 2 charge batt 2. On ALL it parallels both batteries. On 2 it starts with and charges Battery 1 only.
What I need to be doing is leaving switch 2 on position 1 to separate the batteries, if the need to parallel them comes, I can put switch 2 on all or on position 2 to use just battery 1.
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Homeport: Winthrop Harbor, Illinois
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Shore
RO# 11418
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 17:23:07
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so, I should just flip the batteries around?
edit::
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Edited by - Shore on Jun 13 2012 17:53:34 |
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Homeport: Port Orange Florida
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Shore
RO# 11418
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 17:52:53
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Scratch that last one, the console/house power is hooked straight on Batt #1.
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Homeport: Port Orange Florida
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Billylll
RO# 24494
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 18:17:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Shore
Scratch that last one, the console/house power is hooked straight on Batt #1.
Is that the #8 or #10 red/black wires in the white jacket with NO fuse? I would at a minimum put a reset breaker within 18" of the positive battery it is connected to. I would also clean up the lugs and back of the switches the cable ends with the lugs should get heat shrink tubing on all of them.
Bill
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WirelessOne,
40 Mainship
Sedan Bridge
Little Egg, N.J. |
Edited by - Billylll on Jun 13 2012 18:21:13 |
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Homeport: Tuckerton, N.J.
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Shore
RO# 11418
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 18:49:50
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I did remove all the lug on the switches and gave them a sanding.
For the record, when the engines are running, I can switch between 2 and ALL and watch the voltage change on the volt meters. I'm not turning them OFF just selecting between 2 and ALL.
Both engines seem to show 14v+ at their respective gauge at high idle(1300).
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Homeport: Port Orange Florida
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Billylll
RO# 24494
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 18:55:45
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I'm trying to give you a safety tip Shore I am not trying to be critical, the wire with the lugs at the switch all need heat shrink tubing and the console feed needs a fuse close to the battery it is hooked too.
Bill
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WirelessOne,
40 Mainship
Sedan Bridge
Little Egg, N.J. |
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Homeport: Tuckerton, N.J.
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Billylll
RO# 24494
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 18:57:32
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I wouldn't worry about the voltage readings unless the batteries are getting low on fluid.
You are well within the charge limits. The voltage gauges must be hooked through the engine harnesses correct?
Bill
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WirelessOne,
40 Mainship
Sedan Bridge
Little Egg, N.J. |
Edited by - Billylll on Jun 13 2012 18:58:14 |
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Homeport: Tuckerton, N.J.
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Shore
RO# 11418
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 19:28:43
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No, I understand on the lugs. I don't have any shrink here that big right now. I'll do it. It's easy enough to get to.
The gauges are stock units. 1 is new. I believe them to be right.
Oddly enough, the console power wire is fused up near the console. Yes, it's a better idea near the battery. Amps leads are fused.
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Homeport: Port Orange Florida
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Billylll
RO# 24494
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 19:42:36
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Not only is it a better idea to fuse that lead at the battery but it's an
ABYC requirement also one your insurance company wouldn't like if the boat
was surveyed and ever had an electrical fire. I would use a 40-60 amp
push to reset type breaker within 18" of the battery on that positive feed.
Bill
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WirelessOne,
40 Mainship
Sedan Bridge
Little Egg, N.J. |
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Homeport: Tuckerton, N.J.
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Topic |
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Battery Switches and wiring
