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Anchor Management

RO# 32420



Posted - Mar 04 2017 :  15:32:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Going to replace my 8D batteries this year. Was thinking about AGM but they are about twice the price. Roughly $600 vs. $300. What's the real advantage of this?
-------------------------
2006 52 Searay Sedan Bridge

Homeport: Haverstraw, NY

PascalG

RO# 12212



Posted - Mar 04 2017 :  16:35:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Honestly I ve yet to experience AGMs lasting any longer than lead acids...

The only real benefits is that you don't have to add water to them so if your batteries are hard to reach as is often the case on many production bias, it s worth depending extra and not have to break your back. If you switch to AGMs don't forget to set your charger for AGMs


Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper

Homeport: Miami, FL Go to Top of Page

GeeBee

RO# 385



Posted - Mar 04 2017 :  17:19:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have used AGMs for years. I have had very good luck with them, usually lasting 6 years compared to 3 for standard batteries. According to many it is the cheapest battery you can buy because it is able to stand more cycles, thus the per cycle cost is lower. I just like I don't have all the maintenance headaches or have to worry about acid spills. I have 3 in my boat, 1 in each Waverunner, 2 in my diesel truck and even one in my airplane. All give very good and very long service. I first found out about them when I saw them installed in a boat operated by the Navy SEALS. They like them because a round can go right through them and they keep working. I don't expect to take any fire, but it is a testament to the capability of the battery.





"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."... Margaret Thatcher

Homeport: Lake Lanier, GA Go to Top of Page

Bill D.

RO# 150



Posted - Mar 04 2017 :  18:50:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Agree with GeeBee.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it." Henry Louis Mencken (1880 - 1956)

Homeport: Gulf Shores, Alabama Go to Top of Page

NY Weasel

RO# 11933

Posted - Mar 04 2017 :  19:04:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am going into my 7th season with 2x4D Insterstate batteries, no weakness in sight. Runs everything plus the bow thruster all day. Add some distilled water as needed. At $220 each I will replace them when they die.

2004 Albin 28TE

Homeport: Freeport, NY Go to Top of Page

ranger42c

RO# 32710

Posted - Mar 05 2017 :  07:25:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Anchor Management

Going to replace my 8D batteries this year. Was thinking about AGM but they are about twice the price. Roughly $600 vs. $300. What's the real advantage of this?



Advantages are usually said to be reduced maintenances (mostly: none), reduced off-gassing, faster charge acceptance rate (potentially useful if you anchor out a lot), in some cases more cranking amps (e.g., Odyssey), and in many cases more cycles and/or longer overall lifespan. Latter depends on whether you follow the manufacturer's charging recommendations.

Disadvantages are price, and they're somewhat easy to murder if you don't follow the manufacturer's charging recommendations.

FWIW, our oldest AGM bank is just now entering it's 12th season... due for replacement sometime this Summer when I get a round tuit.

-Chris


Selby Bay, South River

Homeport: Londontowne, MD Go to Top of Page

mixman

RO# 25362



Posted - Mar 05 2017 :  08:39:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you anchor out frequently there are two weaknesses with AGM batteries; they need to be brought to full charge after every discharge and they cannot be equalized (except Lifeline brand). Both of these points are documented in research by Practical Sailor magazine and my own experience where I only got a year out of an AGM bank (I replaced with flooded batteries and got 4 years). True, they can take a bullet and not spill as they were designed for military applications. They can also be mounted at nearly any angle (except upside down I believe). IMO the best value is still flooded batteries.

--Kurt

20mph cruise at 5-7gph. Two hulls are better than one!
This is an ethanol-free boat.

Homeport: Chesapeake Bay Go to Top of Page

pdecat

RO# 842



Posted - Mar 05 2017 :  10:11:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Never saw the need for anything but wetcells. 3 or 4 years and done. Never had to worry if I was stretching the life of batteries or running on borrowed time.

Bruce



Homeport: Gulf Coast FL Go to Top of Page

Anchor Management

RO# 32420



Posted - Mar 05 2017 :  12:52:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks guys. For me, most important is value. If I'm going to pay roughly twice as much, I want to get roughly twice as long out of the battery. Hate having to remember adding water but they are easily accessible.

-------------------------
2006 52 Searay Sedan Bridge

Homeport: Haverstraw, NY Go to Top of Page

Robyns Nest

RO# 4846

Posted - Mar 05 2017 :  15:28:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you are going with wet cells, do yourself a favor a buy/install a battery watering system. Costs money up front but takes the hassle out of battery maint.

Wet cells go south when they are low on water. If you keep the topped off they last.

I installed on both banks of 8d's (24volt=(8Dx2)x2). Very easy to water the batteries now.

http://www.batterywatering.com/

I installed on all of my battery powered equipment in my warehouses and it really saves time and money in the long run.


__________________________________________________
2003 56 Post Convertible 2x1300HP V12 MAN
2001 26' Boston Whaler Outrage 2 x Mercury 225 Optimax
--------------------------------------------------------
"The future ain't what is used to be."
- Yogi Berra

Homeport: Monmouth Beach NJ Go to Top of Page

pdecat

RO# 842



Posted - Mar 05 2017 :  15:58:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I used a battery filler so that I dint have to actually see the liquid level. Stick it in and wait for it to stop flowing.
Distilled water when possible. Cheap and readily available at most grocery stores.

Used a hydrometer to measure how effective my charging scheme was and keep an eye on cell performance.


https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=DChcSEwi9_fDjn8DSAhXXVw0KHe53CdAYABAMGgJxYg&sig=AOD64_1LSBRJ7cF_jh6Aso1Me_2SWY9-Dg&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwiQ9uvjn8DSAhVI8CYKHdHFCHcQvhcINw&adurl=


Bruce



Homeport: Gulf Coast FL Go to Top of Page

GeeBee

RO# 385



Posted - Mar 06 2017 :  20:07:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
All this talk about sensitivity and care of AGMs is based upon the old technology. How is it that Johnson Controls AGM batteries are in my diesel truck with no fancy charging, equalizing etc? The last set lasted 6 years.



"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."... Margaret Thatcher

Homeport: Lake Lanier, GA Go to Top of Page

ranger42c

RO# 32710

Posted - Mar 07 2017 :  06:08:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GeeBee

All this talk about sensitivity and care of AGMs is based upon the old technology. How is it that Johnson Controls AGM batteries are in my diesel truck with no fancy charging, equalizing etc? The last set lasted 6 years.



Charging hasn't been a big deal. Reading suggests AGMs last longest when fully charged after each (or pretty soon after each) cycle. That's not particularly difficult for us.

In an automotive application, the battery would almost always be left in a fully-charged state after each use... and AGMs don't self-discharge much.

Ours are Odyssey, one of the two brands Practical Sailor recommended at the time. (The other was Lifeline. A couple other good brands exist, but apparently you get what you pay for when it comes to the rest.)

-Chris





Selby Bay, South River

Homeport: Londontowne, MD Go to Top of Page

ronbo1

RO# 21769

Posted - Mar 07 2017 :  10:22:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Though too tall for most installations forklift batteries have good longevity. Mine are going on their fifteenth (15) year!

Ronbo



Homeport: Go to Top of Page

boatbum

RO# 36

Posted - Mar 07 2017 :  13:44:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We used AGMs in our house bank which was composed of 2 8Ds in parallel. They never lasted more than 4 years. They were maintained at float with temperature compensation and always charged after a discharge. We went back to Sams Club 8Ds for cranking, and NAPA wet cells for the house bank.
They were a waste of cash but easy to maintain. Our wet cells from Sams lasted just as long.



Homeport: Go to Top of Page

JohnC

RO# 204

Posted - Mar 07 2017 :  20:11:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I add a little distilled water to my old style 8D batteries once a season and have been getting 6 or 7 seasons out of them. Never seemed worth it to me to pay double or more for other types.


Homeport: Long Island, New York Go to Top of Page

Audrey II

RO# 30499



Posted - Mar 07 2017 :  20:18:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have never gotten more the 4 years and have gotten less.
Two of my batteries are very hard to get to both to maintain and replace!


Dave

“Time you enjoyed wasting is not wasted time.” – T.S. Elliotcommon.
-----------------------------------------------------------

1996 440 Trojan Express

Homeport: Haverstraw, NY Go to Top of Page

boatbum

RO# 36

Posted - Mar 08 2017 :  07:24:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Plus 1 on the distilled water. We keep a jug on the boat.


Homeport: Go to Top of Page

Audrey II

RO# 30499



Posted - Mar 08 2017 :  07:28:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That is all I have ever used!

Dave

“Time you enjoyed wasting is not wasted time.” – T.S. Elliotcommon.
-----------------------------------------------------------

1996 440 Trojan Express

Homeport: Haverstraw, NY Go to Top of Page

Robyns Nest

RO# 4846

Posted - Mar 08 2017 :  10:53:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dave, you need the watering system. Just sayin'.........

__________________________________________________
2003 56 Post Convertible 2x1300HP V12 MAN
2001 26' Boston Whaler Outrage 2 x Mercury 225 Optimax
--------------------------------------------------------
"The future ain't what is used to be."
- Yogi Berra

Homeport: Monmouth Beach NJ Go to Top of Page

Bob J

RO# 181

Posted - Mar 08 2017 :  17:39:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When I had my 37C Silverton; only used AC Delco Voyager deep cycle batteries. Totally maintenance free. While at dock would leave battery charger on 24/7. Only had 2 on board; 1 for each engine & house 12V. 6/7 years easy !

BOB J


Bob J

Homeport: Waretown, NJ Go to Top of Page

Veebyes

RO# 11224

Posted - Mar 08 2017 :  21:16:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Used wet cell 8Ds on my workboat & got 3-4 years out of them. Put a 4D Lifeline AGM in my 5th wheel trailer spring of 2010. We do upwards of 150 nights on the road each year & do a fair number of nights off grid. It is still there. Winter storage is just that. Battery is disconnected in November & is untouched till April. Will be July this year. No top up charging. No trickle charging. Nothing. Hoping for at least another 2 seasons out of it.


Homeport: Bermuda Go to Top of Page

Audrey II

RO# 30499



Posted - Mar 09 2017 :  06:51:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
4D? did you use two in parallel?

"Dave, you need the watering system. Just sayin'........."
I have a sprinkler system at the house


Dave

“Time you enjoyed wasting is not wasted time.” – T.S. Elliotcommon.
-----------------------------------------------------------

1996 440 Trojan Express

Homeport: Haverstraw, NY Go to Top of Page

pdecat

RO# 842



Posted - Mar 09 2017 :  08:04:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
since I know batteries have a limited life and end of life is uncertain I have always just replaced them after 4 years or so, using wet cells.

I have never understood all the never ending discussions on getting the last bit of life from batteries. Not much more disappointing than the silence of a dead battery when you hit the switch.

I guess in house service you dont care if the lights go off early.


Bruce



Homeport: Gulf Coast FL Go to Top of Page

j-d

RO# 15782

Posted - Mar 09 2017 :  08:45:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bruce, You are a MASTER of the Written Word! Have a great day Shipmate!

God Bless, jd
1996 Sea Ray 215EC
Alpha One GEN II 5.7L/357CID/4V/275HP
14-1/2*23*3 Alum RWC

Homeport: Sunny Florida Go to Top of Page

pdecat

RO# 842



Posted - Mar 09 2017 :  09:29:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks JD

Bruce



Homeport: Gulf Coast FL Go to Top of Page

j-d

RO# 15782

Posted - Mar 09 2017 :  09:52:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sam's Club yesterday. 8D in the "Duracell" brand was just under $200 a copy. From what I could tell, there might be caps that would come off to allow watering. Not sure about that. The little GP 24 "marine/RV deep/start" batts I got from them are so-called "maintenance free" which to me, means: "You can't do anything to try and extend its miserable life."
How'd I do, Bruce?


God Bless, jd
1996 Sea Ray 215EC
Alpha One GEN II 5.7L/357CID/4V/275HP
14-1/2*23*3 Alum RWC

Homeport: Sunny Florida Go to Top of Page

pdecat

RO# 842



Posted - Mar 09 2017 :  14:41:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great as usual. Exactly what I have always done.

Bruce



Homeport: Gulf Coast FL Go to Top of Page

j-d

RO# 15782

Posted - Mar 09 2017 :  15:13:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here it is:



Price $192.50

And it appears to be a maintenance free battery so my memory wasn't right. I have noticed, in their car batteries, that Sam's Group 65 "Ford" battery is heavier, with higher cranking and reserve capacities, than it's counterpart at WallyWorld, EverStart brand, I believe.


God Bless, jd
1996 Sea Ray 215EC
Alpha One GEN II 5.7L/357CID/4V/275HP
14-1/2*23*3 Alum RWC

Homeport: Sunny Florida Go to Top of Page

pdecat

RO# 842



Posted - Mar 09 2017 :  16:35:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
IMO weight is the only indicator we get regarding how goof he battery may be. More metal more weight more electrode inside.

Boat batteries usually have wing nuts though. adapter terminals are available. I have had good luck with Interstate batteries. They have stores everywhere.


Bruce



Homeport: Gulf Coast FL Go to Top of Page

Audrey II

RO# 30499



Posted - Mar 09 2017 :  17:52:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
8Ds have post like the picture above. I have never seen a seal 8D other then AGM? I'm a little confused about this! I would love to know more about this battery.


Dave

“Time you enjoyed wasting is not wasted time.” – T.S. Elliotcommon.
-----------------------------------------------------------

1996 440 Trojan Express

Homeport: Haverstraw, NY Go to Top of Page

pdecat

RO# 842



Posted - Mar 09 2017 :  19:12:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks JD

Bruce



Homeport: Gulf Coast FL Go to Top of Page

pdecat

RO# 842



Posted - Mar 09 2017 :  19:15:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
8d is a battery case size. Same size built in different technology's and configurations

Bruce



Homeport: Gulf Coast FL Go to Top of Page

j-d

RO# 15782

Posted - Mar 09 2017 :  21:50:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I believe over-the-road diesel tractors use, at least used to use, 8D batteries. The ones I've looked at used paired batteries about half that size. Group 31's?
This appears to be an Engine Start battery, not a Deep Cycle. The Sam's Club webpage starts out calling it an AGM battery, which the detailed Q&A says it is NOT. Also says it is NOT a Deep Cycle. This is URL of their page: https://www.samsclub.com/sams/duracell-commercial-battery-group-size-8d/prod3590261.ip
Copied from the webpage:

Features:
Special computer-aided design and heavy-duty manufacturing techniques mean more durability for line haul trucks, buses, farm tractors and off-road equipment. Premium deep pocket envelope separators, protect the plates on all four sides to dramatically reduce shorting and extend service life. Genuine calcium lead alloy provides longer waterless operation and extended battery life. Anchor-locked elements with tight-pack commercial plates resist the damaging effects of vibration, delivering more power-per-pound than other batteries. Available wet and many can be ordered dry. A special dry-charge process completely eliminates moisture for virtually unlimited shelf life. Most popular sizes feature tough polypropylene cases which resist breakage and extend service life. Many are also available with handles and special terminals for easy installation. One of the most complete line of enveloped calcium maintenance-free commercial batteries in the industry including such hard-to-find group sizes such as 3D.

Specifications

Battery Electrolyte Composition:Acid
Battery End Type:Top Post
Battery Purpose:Starting Lighting Instrumentation
BCI Group Size:8D
CA at 32 degrees F:1720
CCA at 0 degrees F:1400
Freight Class:65
Reserve Capacity:430
Terminal Type:TSAE3
Volts:12

Manufacturer Info

For additional questions or concerns regarding this product, please contact the Manufacturer's Customer Service Department at 1.888 - 844 - 7704


God Bless, jd
1996 Sea Ray 215EC
Alpha One GEN II 5.7L/357CID/4V/275HP
14-1/2*23*3 Alum RWC

Homeport: Sunny Florida Go to Top of Page

boatbum

RO# 36

Posted - Mar 10 2017 :  07:01:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I bought 8Ds at Sams in Cape Coral Fl. that had normal automotive posts and caps allowing maintenance this past Fall.

SamsLink






Edited by - boatbum on Mar 10 2017 07:02:33

Homeport: Go to Top of Page

easttnboater

RO# 23415

Posted - Mar 10 2017 :  08:00:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There is really no such thing as a "maintenance free" wet cell battery. They may be advertised that way because over its expected lifespan in a car it will not need water added. But, in the environment that is being discussed here with the timelines involved, you are going to need to add water to the batteries.


Homeport: Johnson City, TN Go to Top of Page

pdecat

RO# 842



Posted - Mar 10 2017 :  09:18:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes they were common on trucks but with SAE posts only Posts and studs are available in starting and deep cycle. All my 8Ds were posts and studs because multiple cables hooked up.

Bruce



Homeport: Gulf Coast FL Go to Top of Page
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