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 Documentation - state registration question
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cwms

RO# 7357

Posted - Feb 13 2018 :  10:47:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK, we all know that documented boats do not have state numbers on the bow.
CG Doc Center FAQ page says that states can require boats to be registered and affix state sticker, but not state numbers.

Is there any CG regulation that says a boater is prohibited from putting state numbers on the bow? Only thing I see is the state cannot require it.

Homeport: VA

PascalG

RO# 12212



Posted - Feb 13 2018 :  11:01:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes I don't have the link handy but there is a CFR which specifically prohibit affixing state numbers to a doc'd vessel

Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper

Homeport: Miami, FL Go to Top of Page

cwms

RO# 7357

Posted - Feb 13 2018 :  11:22:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd love to see it if you find. I'm sure there is a regulation...I've just never seen it in writing, beyond the FAQ page.
Thanks,



Homeport: VA Go to Top of Page

PascalG

RO# 12212



Posted - Feb 13 2018 :  11:32:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is just a BoatUS link but have read the actual CFR.

https://www.boatus.com/boatgraphics/uscg-requirements.asp


Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper

Homeport: Miami, FL Go to Top of Page

cwms

RO# 7357

Posted - Feb 13 2018 :  12:15:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Pascal


Homeport: VA Go to Top of Page

HOGAN

RO# 3813



Posted - Feb 13 2018 :  13:02:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
NY requires a state registration sticker, even if the boat is documented

_________________________


1999 Trojan 440 Express
2005 Scout 175 Sportfish

MMSI# 338049724




Surly to bed, surly to rise...

Homeport: Haverstraw Marina, Haverstraw, NY Go to Top of Page

cwms

RO# 7357

Posted - Feb 13 2018 :  13:28:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HOGAN

NY requires a state registration sticker, even if the boat is documented



I think that is true with all states except for the few that don't require documented boats to be registered. VA does not. Here it is optional.



Homeport: VA Go to Top of Page

PascalG

RO# 12212



Posted - Feb 13 2018 :  14:11:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah the sticker is a different story. We re talking state numbers here

Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper

Homeport: Miami, FL Go to Top of Page

November Charlie

RO# 824

Posted - Feb 13 2018 :  14:20:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can find the cite tomorrow, but there is actual regulation, and it is a “writeable” violation to display state registration numbers on a documented vessel.

My signature line is cooler than your signature line.

Homeport: Northwest Go to Top of Page

PascalG

RO# 12212



Posted - Feb 13 2018 :  15:51:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
But... since some states and jurisdictions are known to ignore the federal laws they don't like (immigration and pot)... some overzealous local LEOs could ignore that one too :)

Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper

Homeport: Miami, FL Go to Top of Page

Good Grief

RO# 13137



Posted - Feb 13 2018 :  15:59:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Let's see what Mike comes up with. Here's my non-attorney non-LEO $0.02 -

46 CFR 67 is the Documentation part of Federal law. 46CFR67.331 says, "The owner of a documented vessel shall not permit the operation of that vessel unless it is marked in accordance with Subpart I of this part." Subpart I (Marking Requirements for Vessel Documentation) talks about Official number and name/hailing port marking; no mention of state registration numbers. Seems that Documented vessels are required to have the name on both sides of the bow and the stern, with hailing port on the stern (46CFR67.123(a)). IMHO state reg numbers would interfere with this requirement - so no state numbers on documented vessels. AN EXCEPTION to the 'name on each side of the bow' requirement is made for vessels documentated for recreational use only (46CFR67.123(c)).

Like I said, $0.02.


-Gene
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking

Homeport: Viking Boat Yard, Verplank NY Go to Top of Page

Sandy

RO# 1159

Posted - Feb 13 2018 :  21:35:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gene- according to the info posted on the USCG doc site, documented vessels must display name and hailing port somewhere clearly visible on the exterior hull, but it is only for documented commercial vessels that name and hailing port MUST be on the stern AND the name displayed on both port & starboard sides of the bow.
Minimum 4" high. Hailing port must include state, territory or U.S. possession.

http://www.dco.uscg.mil/Our-Organization/Assistant-Commandant-for-Prevention-Policy-CG-5P/Inspections-Compliance-CG-5PC-/National-Vessel-Documentation-Center/National-Vessel-Documentation-Center-FAQ/#anchor12


As previously mentioned, besides mandate to remove any state registration "numbers" , the states regulate whether registration and display of sticker is required.


Sandy

Edited by - Sandy on Feb 13 2018 21:45:15

Homeport: The Vineyard Go to Top of Page

Gregory S

RO# 2620



Posted - Feb 14 2018 :  09:52:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Also, some states ( New York is apparently one) are issuing state titles to federally documented vessels which is not permitted according to federal law.


Homeport: Norfolk, Va Go to Top of Page

Good Grief

RO# 13137



Posted - Feb 14 2018 :  13:06:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sandy - I think we said the same thing. . . ! However, no place in your cite (or mine) is there an explicit requirement NOT to show State Reg numbers. We're still awaiting NC. What say you, Boson??

Doc - I had that problem - NY will issue a title to a documented boat, but on notification will acknowledge the error and take it back. For us, NY issued a title and unique Reg numbers (e.g., NY 1234 AB) to our documented boat. I had to mail proof of Documentation, the original reg and the reg stickers (which had to be gingerly removed from the hull) to NYDMV w/ a letter of explanation. They in turn, issued a new reg (w/ new stickers) with the documentation number where the NY1234AB number would be. So NY boats w/ Documentation AND a Title need to return the title . . ..

From what I hear NJ requires a State title be issued for all recreational power vessels, documented or not.


-Gene
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking

Homeport: Viking Boat Yard, Verplank NY Go to Top of Page

Sandy

RO# 1159

Posted - Feb 14 2018 :  22:32:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My apologies , Gene. Right you are , same thing.

Somehow I managed to gloss over the "AN EXCEPTION to the 'name on each side of the bow' requirement is made for vessels documented for recreational use only" in your helpful quote.

As for a requirement to remove any state registration numbers/letters when boats are documented , FWIW I do see that BOAT/U.S. advises that is the case in Pascal's link:
"When a vessel becomes federally Documented, the State Registration Numbers and Letters must be removed. "
https://www.boatus.com/boatgraphics/uscg-requirements.asp


Sandy

Homeport: The Vineyard Go to Top of Page

cwms

RO# 7357

Posted - Feb 15 2018 :  08:33:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sandy


As for a requirement to remove any state registration numbers/letters when boats are documented , FWIW I do see that BOAT/U.S. advises that is the case in Pascal's link:
"When a vessel becomes federally Documented, the State Registration Numbers and Letters must be removed. "
https://www.boatus.com/boatgraphics/uscg-requirements.asp



Yes, Pascal's link is good to see but I was hoping to see something in writing from the CG.

Thanks guys.



Homeport: VA Go to Top of Page

PascalG

RO# 12212



Posted - Feb 15 2018 :  08:47:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Search the relevant CFR available on line.... i dont feel like doing it, that language usually gives me headaches :)

Pascal
1970 Hatteras 53 MY
26' Starfish sloop
12' Westphal Catboat
16' Hobie Cat
13' Sandbarhopper

Homeport: Miami, FL Go to Top of Page
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