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 454 crusader oil, transmission fluid and trim tab
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Author Previous Topic: what kind of wood for trailer bunks? Topic Next Topic: 1988 Silverton 37 bilge blower quesion  

tcarriere

RO# 34076

Posted - Dec 28 2018 :  11:29:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Eventually I will find the trim tab reservoir on this 1988 Silverton 37 motor yacht and will need to put fluid in.
What type of fluid for trim tab?
Will change transmission fluid soon. What type of transmission fluid?
Will change 454 gas engine oil soon and the book says straight 40 which is hard to find. How about 10W 40 fully synthetic?
Clueless

Homeport: PA

Sandy

RO# 1159

Posted - Dec 28 2018 :  18:45:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bennett tabs use any type ATF fluid. If you have 1988 Bennetts this is likely what you should look for:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Older+trim+tab+reservoir&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS736US736&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=QxSYGtqroy2jiM%253A%252C-8qeH3iqBVcZKM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kR_Of5rlbfknZYyd_nj9UH02ZhMiw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiRm5H71cPfAhUGVd8KHWzvB_UQ9QEwFHoECAMQCg#imgrc=QxSYGtqroy2jiM:

The reservoir is the bottom section under the pump and valve section. Don't overfill. Proper level range is marked.


I can't recall for sure , but I believe the very similar Insta-Trim "Boat-Levelor" tabs used the same ATF fluid and had same warnings to not overfill ( ~~3/4 full).
https://insta-trim.com/heavy-duty-trim-tabs/parts-diagram/

The transmission fluid may depend on which transmissions/reduction gears you have .
B/W Velvet Drives take Dexron II ATF.
"V"-drives : SAE 80W-90 Gear Oil though it looks like some Warner "V" drives could opt for Dexron II ATF.

My old 1988 Crusader owner's manual says those 454 engines used SAE 30 , but I would suggest SAE 15W-40 would be a good alternate. I believe that oil has anti-shear properties other multi-viscosities lack.
SAE 40 was only spec'd for ambient temps above 80*F.
I would not switch over to synthetic as reportedly that could adversely affect the old seals or encourage related problems.


Sandy

Homeport: The Vineyard Go to Top of Page

tcarriere

RO# 34076

Posted - Dec 29 2018 :  14:55:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you Sandy. Very helpful. My daughters bought this boat and so many minor issues. I put a new marine starter on port side and the starboard side looks much worse but works. Somebody put hose clamp around solenoid and removed the 50 amp breaker. The boat drives well but trim tabs down so front is up and you can only go about 10mph. I have to hot wire the neutral safety switch on Jan 5th. Would love to get the starboard started one more time before the below 20 weather.

Clueless

Homeport: PA Go to Top of Page

Sandy

RO# 1159

Posted - Dec 29 2018 :  16:27:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thomas, here is the trouble-shooting guide for Bennett tab systems , and as mentioned the Boat Leveler system is very similar.
https://bennetttrimtabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/trimtab_troubleshooting.pdf
https://insta-trim.com/heavy-duty-trim-tabs/owners-manual/
Check the (20A ?) fuse 1st . It is probably right near the battery or main battery switch that supplies the tab hydraulic pump unit /HPU.
It's also very common for older tab ssystem wiring to ust have a little corrosion on terminal or butt connectors connectors or bad ground connection at the pump and harness connector.

Since your engines are Crusaders, there is a fairly good chance they are "FWC: Fresh Water Cooled" with antifreeze in the engine block and exhaust manifolds, but not in the rest of the cooling system .
But they could be "RWC : Raw water cooled" with no protective anti- freeze anywhere and that would be obvious if there is no cylindrical large heat exchanger w/ A/F in it.
Sea strainers by the RW intake seacock, RW pump, exhaust risers and mufflers as well as all RW hoses would have freezable RW run through them and should be winterized by draining and -50* or -60* non-toxic RV type antifreeze run through them even on FWC engines.
If the engines are RWC, the thermostat should be temporarily removed and Non-tox A/F run through the whole cooling system including the whole block after that is drained. This can take a lot of gallons of A/F to effectively protect everything. Put the T-stat back in after and when the boat is blocked up on land leave all the seacocks open to drain , then close all before spring launch.

If the engines are FWC, be sure to test the anti-freeze in the heat exchanger to see what it presently may protect down to. If any question , drain and replace all the A/F with new 50/50% mix.

You will need to winterize everything in the RW side of the engine cooling systems to prevent cracking the block or other damgage, and also winterize the boat's whole fresh water system going from tank to sinks showers washdown , etc., as well as the usually raw water supplied head, macerator pump and blackwater holding tank system.

If that hasn't been done yet and temps have dropped well below 32 at any point already, there could already be damage . If the surrounding water has stayed above 32*or a little lower that will have had somewhat of a tempering effect temporarily ( and if in salt water that doesn't freeze until it drops to 28*.)

Since you and your daughters are learning about this one and boats in general , it would be money well spent to have a mechanic come over now and show you what he is doing to winterize everything.
New engines and labor involved are quite expensive and its VERY easy to neglect some important part of the winterizing process for particular boats and engines if you are not intimately familiar with the systems and how they work.
1 hard freeze can ruin both engines and lots of other items, so don't delay until temps drop to 20*.


Also noting: You've likely figured this out when your replaced the port starter, but it is really important new starters are of the correct rotation for not only the standard LH/CW (viewing the top of the flywheel from flywheel end) or opposite-rotation RH/CW engine but the way the starter is mounted( facing flywheel or pulley end) . Wrong starter will pull RW into the cylinders and hydrolock the engine. Starter rotation is as viewed from the gear end. So on Crusader I/B's the starter would be ordered as same rotation as the engine, LH /CCW, or RH /CW.

This nice diagram from Arco helps get it right:
http://www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/tech%20determine%20marine%20starter%20rotation.pdf

Better check/replace the pencil anodes in the heat exchanger and (since they are 454's) in the combination oil and transmission U-cooler. They get replaced when the anode looks about 1/2 gone as the rest is very porous at that point, and should be checked about every month in service. The threaded cap has tapered thread so don't over-tighten to avoid splitting the female fitting, and don't use teflon tape though a little paste is Ok but usually not needed to seal.

Since your daughters bought the Silverton , I'd encourage you to have them well involved in all this so they learn about boat owning responsibilities too.

Best luck and Happy New Year!


Sandy

Edited by - Sandy on Dec 29 2018 16:45:40

Homeport: The Vineyard Go to Top of Page

jtybt15

RO# 3300



Posted - Dec 29 2018 :  20:17:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Boy!!! Sandy, You are sure getting good at this...but then you been doin' it quite
some years. I had to quit for a while cuz all the answers got so repetitive.
Keep up the good work.





Charlie

There is much to be said, in a world like ours, for taking the world as you find it and fishing with a worm.-Bliss Perry, 1904



Homeport: Ca Go to Top of Page

Sandy

RO# 1159

Posted - Dec 30 2018 :  15:40:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Charlie - Your knowledge & experience ( & exhaust system, heh) is light years beyond mine. Don't let my wordiness keep you from posting the good stuff!
Just trying to help a little when/if I can.


Sandy

Homeport: The Vineyard Go to Top of Page

Gregory S

RO# 2620



Posted - Dec 31 2018 :  15:31:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sandy, hasn't Dexron II been replaced by Dexron III?


Homeport: Norfolk, Va Go to Top of Page

Sandy

RO# 1159

Posted - Dec 31 2018 :  16:12:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gregory S

Sandy, hasn't Dexron II been replaced by Dexron III?



Yes, indeed it has been for a long time now, and it should certainly be even better ( and all you can buy now I expect).
I was just reading off the specs in the 1988 Crusader Owner's Manual.


Sandy

Homeport: The Vineyard Go to Top of Page

Gregory S

RO# 2620



Posted - Jan 01 2019 :  11:09:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My BW 5000s call for Denton II but I have to use III when I replace the fluid.


Homeport: Norfolk, Va Go to Top of Page

cwms

RO# 7357

Posted - Jan 01 2019 :  22:05:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tcarriere

The boat drives well but trim tabs down so front is up and you can only go about 10mph.



Unless I'm clueless on trim tabs....tabs down forces the stern up and bow down. Tabs cannot raise the bow, only push it down.

What are your engine RPM''s when going 10 mph?
Since it is a new to you boat, has the bottom been inspected for bottom growth? Bad bottom growth can kill speed. From the beginning of the summer to the end, I lost 10 mph off my top end due to bottom growth.

I'm guessing at 10 mph, you are running 2500 RPM's or less. To get on a full plane, you probably need to be at least 3000-3200 RPM's, maybe a little higher.



Edited by - cwms on Jan 01 2019 22:18:55

Homeport: VA Go to Top of Page

Sandy

RO# 1159

Posted - Jan 01 2019 :  22:34:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I read that "trim tabs down" as meaning they just were not working/responding to the switches since the "front" was up . But I did wonder a bit about the wording....

Sandy

Homeport: The Vineyard Go to Top of Page

cwms

RO# 7357

Posted - Jan 08 2019 :  09:45:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So Thomas...have you had a chance to do anything with your boat?


Homeport: VA Go to Top of Page

tcarriere

RO# 34076

Posted - Jan 09 2019 :  15:51:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
CWMS. yes I drove the jersey city and worked 3 hours. I fixed some things and found more issues. the 50 amp breaker and bracket was dangling by the electric cable. I saw one hole for bolt but no bolt near by. need to buy a bolt or 2 and pull all the floors out and pretend I am young and small. The manual brackets do not look like mine. The marine web site bracket looks like mine so just asked the marine company for the new bolt or bolts. i think the bracket needs to be bolted so the starter switch will get a good ground. Hard to find this information anywhere.

Clueless

Homeport: PA Go to Top of Page

jtybt15

RO# 3300



Posted - Jan 09 2019 :  19:42:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can see the 50 amp burning out if the starter is engaged but not turning. There are basically two types of solenoids for starters...either Ford or GM. Both engage when an electro-magnet connect a heavy duty contact within the solenoid. It's possible this contact welded itself. It's a relatively easy fix...if you know what you're doing. If you can remove it, you can have it tested for free at an O'reileys. If it has to be replaced, replace it with a permanent magnet started. They weigh less than 1/2 as much as the older type.




Charlie

There is much to be said, in a world like ours, for taking the world as you find it and fishing with a worm.-Bliss Perry, 1904



Homeport: Ca Go to Top of Page

cmariner32

RO# 7269

Posted - Jan 09 2019 :  23:27:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If replacing the starter, make sure its a marine-rated starter. Automotive starters are a no-no.

The only thing that works on an old boat.....is the Owner.

Homeport: Clearwater/St. Pete Florida Go to Top of Page

tcarriere

RO# 34076

Posted - Jan 10 2019 :  13:48:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I replaced the entire marine based starter on port side and not a hard job will all floor boards out and I created a bench seat to sit on. The starboard side starter solenoid and starter worked great the last time we drove the boat but someone put a hose clamp around the solenoid before we bought the boat.
i will replace the entire starter but first I need to bolt the 50 amp breaker and bracket to engine to see if this fixes the oil pressure alarm not sounding off. Anyone know if this breaker bracket needs to be bolted to provide a good ground so it will start? We have no idea how long the bracket was hanging off but we may have gotten lucky with ground since edge of bracket was leaning against engine until I moved it.


Clueless

Homeport: PA Go to Top of Page

SteveG

RO# 2657



Posted - Feb 05 2019 :  12:40:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I went back and forth and did tons of research for the first oil change on my 1989 Crusader 454s. Crusader now recommends 15W-40 oil for all their engines, it's on their website if you search for it. Those engines of that year have flat tappets so ZDDP content is helpful. I am running Shell Rotella T4 15W-40 diesel oil (yes, it's perfectly fine for gas engines, the lack of gas engine certification is because of the higher ZDDP levels, so they had to either give up the ZDDP level or drop the gas certification).

Steve - 1989 Viking 35 Convertible

Edited by - SteveG on Feb 05 2019 12:46:36

Homeport: NH Coast Go to Top of Page

cmariner32

RO# 7269

Posted - Feb 05 2019 :  23:14:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Steve...I have '89 454 Crusaders and have always changed oil with straight 40w oil-very hard to find. Where did you see that 15-40w is good for older engines? In Florida...there is no need for 15w oil-if something higher than 15-40w oil works, it could save me several boat dollars. I could sure use some edumication.

The only thing that works on an old boat.....is the Owner.

Homeport: Clearwater/St. Pete Florida Go to Top of Page

Bruce Herrington

RO# 2612



Posted - Feb 08 2019 :  10:07:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I use 30W Rotella in my 80's era 454 Crusaders..

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

Homeport: Cape Coral, FL Go to Top of Page

Gregory S

RO# 2620



Posted - Feb 08 2019 :  10:23:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I use Mercruiser 25/40 in my Crusader 454s and add ZDDP to each oil change because of the flat tappets. If I didn't use that, I would use Rotella T for the above reasons.


Homeport: Norfolk, Va Go to Top of Page

SteveG

RO# 2657



Posted - Feb 08 2019 :  11:47:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The simplest reference from Crusader can be found under the FAQs on this page http://www.crusaderengines.com/classic/#owners, but I saw another reference in the past that was even more explicit. It said "Crusader Marine now recommends 15w40 in all its engines". I couldn't easily find it again. You will drive yourself crazy asking about what oil to use. All new oil is much better than the old stuff. If you are a seasonal boater and changing it ever season after maybe 100 hrs of use, you likely won't have any issues or concern. It's the flat tappets that need a bit more care, and even that you will find debate about. I probably read a hundred pages on the internet and then used that knowledge to form my own opinion. I deciding higher levels of ZDDP certainly aren't bad for the motor, so why take a chance on the newer environment friendly stuff that has much reduced levels (which gains them certain gas engine certifications). So far so good. Seeing Crusader recommend it, I was good with it. I also use it in my Kohler generator. One 5 gallon pail does all 3 motors with about a gallon to spare.

Steve - 1989 Viking 35 Convertible

Homeport: NH Coast Go to Top of Page
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