Guys - I'm a current 28 foot express cruiser owner looking to step up. I've become anamored lately with the look of the Sabre/Back Cove yachts. Back Cove has a 34 that looks really nice. Anyone have any experience with Back Cove yachts? How do you feel they stack up to the more ubiquitous Sea Rays, Four Winns etc.
Back Cove
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I am a big fan of the Sabreline yachts. The backcove yachts seem to be smaller and less luxo then the sabreline but the attention to mechanical detail seems to be the same. I have talked to a number of owners of the smaller single thruster backcove's and the all seem to really like them. Having owned a sea ray it is really hard to compare the two boats; but I would surely pick a backcove or certainly a sabreline over the comparable Sea Ray.
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Every Sabreline I've ever seen has suffered from significant cracks in the gelcoat. I tried to buy a 36 Sabreline last year and gave up after looking at 4 different boats. All had bad gelcait and 3 of them had sunk or takrn on a lot of water and the cored hull does not do well when it has been "filled" with water.
Why would you prefer the Sabre over a comparable Sea Ray? Is there a big quality difference in your mind? For the same money, would you prefer a 2 or 3 year old Sabre than the Sea Ray equivalent?
What about the single engine ... is that a big drawback for boating on a great lake or the ocean from a safety standpoint?
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Comparing a Back Cove or Sabreline to a Sea Ray or Four Winns is apples to cocunuts -completely different styles for different markets.
As for a single engine, it is far from a drawback on a great lake or an ocean.
As for a single engine, it is far from a drawback on a great lake or an ocean.
I'm confused - how is a Sabreline MKII so different from a Sundancer from a design perspective? I really the hardtop makes them different from Sundancers with an arch and canvas but I'm not sure it's apples to coconuts. I for one, currently own a Sundancer and will be looking to upgrade and will look at both a bigger Sundancer and a downeast style hardtop coupe. Where am I going wrong?
My comment about the single engine was simply meant from a safety standpoint that the redundancy of twins makes you feel a little better when shore is not in sight.
Are single Yanmars and Cummins etc. so reliable that its not a practical concern?
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In my opinion (which may not be the popular opinion) sea ray is riding on its name and the quality of the product is in decline. I feel that the attention to detail in a Sabreline is an 8.5 and a sea ray maybe 6.5; with 5 being average. At the same time I think that the sundancer is a victim of its own success in the sense that every other boat here seems to be a sundancer. Not a real brunswick fan; so take my comments for what they are; a lone opinion.
I appreciate the opinions and truthfully, kind of feel the same way. We bought a Sea Ray primarily on brand recognition but I feel the boat is ordinary. In general, is the consensus of most on this board to buy a better quality boat that's a couple years old rather than new? Seems to me that the Tiara's, Hatteras', Vikings, Sabrelines etc... seem to hold their value. I'm not mechanically inclined so I tend to be wary. Can you give me examples of where the quality actually manifests itself to the owner?
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Sabre and Sea Ray have in common only the simple fact they are both considered boats. And there the relationship ends.
I'm new to this forum and genuinely trying to learn. No disrespect intended, but comments like this seem to be quite common in threads I've read and don't serve much value to me. Is this meant to be serious or sarcastic? I've openly said I'm one of probably about a million relatively happy Sea Ray owners but am looking to upgrade in both size and quality.
I'll hope for some more helpful comments.
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Sorry about that, dinner was ready and had to give the 10 month old a bath. I had a good rant pretty much framed up in my mind, now I lost the steam. But yes, you're riht, I should have just kept my mouth shut. Gotta plead guilty to being uselessly unhelpful.
In short, Sea Ray mass produces boats. They used to be known as a high quality mass producer, but not so much nowadays. They make a cookie cutter, get there fast at the expense of a good ride, not so high (nowadays) quality production boat. Everything they have approximating the length overall ("LOA") of a Sabre model wll generally have twin gas guzzlers or diesel guzzlers. Sabre is also a production boat, but a totally different style, and much higher quality, and the design is much classier, in my opinion. Where Sea Ray is a so-called Express Cruiser, Sabre is a Downeast style cruiser - I guess it's an "ooh vs. ahh" thing. I'm on the PDA now, I'll get back to this if the thread stays alive, but thats the synopsis.
Again, my apologies for the short response. I have a really really bad attention span issue, and food motivates me. ( Bay scallop season just opened here on Nantucket, been eating and freezing more nubs than I know what to do with...)
In short, Sea Ray mass produces boats. They used to be known as a high quality mass producer, but not so much nowadays. They make a cookie cutter, get there fast at the expense of a good ride, not so high (nowadays) quality production boat. Everything they have approximating the length overall ("LOA") of a Sabre model wll generally have twin gas guzzlers or diesel guzzlers. Sabre is also a production boat, but a totally different style, and much higher quality, and the design is much classier, in my opinion. Where Sea Ray is a so-called Express Cruiser, Sabre is a Downeast style cruiser - I guess it's an "ooh vs. ahh" thing. I'm on the PDA now, I'll get back to this if the thread stays alive, but thats the synopsis.
Again, my apologies for the short response. I have a really really bad attention span issue, and food motivates me. ( Bay scallop season just opened here on Nantucket, been eating and freezing more nubs than I know what to do with...)
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Also, in the interest of fairness and disclosure, I used to own a 1998 Sea Ray 270 Special Edition.
Would you and perhaps others on the board be inclined to prefer a Tiara or Sabre or something of that quality that's a few years old versus something new of lesser quality like Sea Ray?
How many hours on a good Yanmar or Cummins diesel engine can you expect without significant rebuilds?
I also noticed in one piece of literature that the Back Cove 33 gets on plane at 10 kts or something. My 280DA won't get on plane until 25 mph or so. Is that just a hull design issue or weight distribution or combination? The practical benefit is that for those days when you just want to go for a cruise and enjoy the lake/weather, you can do so much more economically.
IMO Yes, I would prefer owning an older Tiara or Sabre than a newer "less quality" / sex boat. That's just my preference in liking the lines of a typical nautical/maritime fishing or downeast style boat. I just don't like the modern shape and plush luxury accomadations of many of these mass produced boats.
As far as your original question of how does a Back Cove stack up against Sea Ray and others.....As mentioned, it is apples and oranges in comparison. The Back Cove and other downeast style boats may not have the luxury items of a Sea Ray type boat. The Downeast will have basic necessities, classic lines, character, many with single or twin engine and admiration that they don't look like every other boat at the Marina.
It really all depends on your taste, preference, style of boating (weekend overnight, cruising, fishing) and expendable cash.
As far as your original question of how does a Back Cove stack up against Sea Ray and others.....As mentioned, it is apples and oranges in comparison. The Back Cove and other downeast style boats may not have the luxury items of a Sea Ray type boat. The Downeast will have basic necessities, classic lines, character, many with single or twin engine and admiration that they don't look like every other boat at the Marina.
It really all depends on your taste, preference, style of boating (weekend overnight, cruising, fishing) and expendable cash.
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"Would you and perhaps others on the board be inclined to prefer a Tiara or Sabre or something of that quality that's a few years old versus something new of lesser quality like Sea Ray? "
Absolutely YES, I would take an older Tiara or Sabre over a new (or any for that matter) Sea Ray. It really is a preference in design, but I am a traditionalist and love the looks and function of a downeast style hull.
"How many hours on a good Yanmar or Cummins diesel engine can you expect without significant rebuilds?"
Properly maintained and cared for 5,000 - 8,000.
If you are looking for a good quality pocket cruiser - you may want to consider the Albin 32+2
Absolutely YES, I would take an older Tiara or Sabre over a new (or any for that matter) Sea Ray. It really is a preference in design, but I am a traditionalist and love the looks and function of a downeast style hull.
"How many hours on a good Yanmar or Cummins diesel engine can you expect without significant rebuilds?"
Properly maintained and cared for 5,000 - 8,000.
If you are looking for a good quality pocket cruiser - you may want to consider the Albin 32+2
I guess the Chris Craft and Uniflite express cruisers of the late 60's and early 70's were ahead of their time. These new "Downeast" style boats are the same basic layout. What goes around comes around. Bsteven-buy a 1972 Uniflite 31' express, spend $40k for a diesel conversion and another $20k for general upgrades and you can have a $70k version of the $500k Downeast.
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I am also interested in a Sabreline (36 aft cabin) and am interested in what you've uncovered. Where are these cracks that have led to core damage in the boats you've seen? I've seen a few of these boats with some crazing but didn't think too much of it. My experience and reading were that crazing was limited to the gel coat layer only.
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My neighbor at home has a Back Cove 29 single screw with a thruster, and it is a beautiful boat. I really don't think it falls into the same classification as a Sea Ray. Handles well, and good ride even with a good Chesapeake chop. I believe it is now 2 yrs. old, with no problems,,lift kept, and looks great. price was around the $250K mark.
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Some cross-pollenation from other boating forums on similar topic - Downeast Boats
Have you looked at the non-production boat builders on the Eastern Shore of Maryland? They are far from the standard 'plastic fantastics' mentioned above. These builders offer their boats in various layers of 'fluff' & bought at various stages of completion. Mathews Brothers www.mathewsboats.com , Mabry www.mabryyachts.com , Evans Boats, www.evansboats.com/ , Judge Yachts www.judgeyachts.com, Black Dog Boatworks, www.blackdogboatworks.com
There are others, too.
The basic differences between a Downeast boat & a Chesapeake boat are that the Chesapeake boat will likely have more cockpit/less cabin, be hard chined, be shallower draft & be a bit faster (less wetted surface) for same hp & length.
Have you looked at the non-production boat builders on the Eastern Shore of Maryland? They are far from the standard 'plastic fantastics' mentioned above. These builders offer their boats in various layers of 'fluff' & bought at various stages of completion. Mathews Brothers www.mathewsboats.com , Mabry www.mabryyachts.com , Evans Boats, www.evansboats.com/ , Judge Yachts www.judgeyachts.com, Black Dog Boatworks, www.blackdogboatworks.com
There are others, too.
The basic differences between a Downeast boat & a Chesapeake boat are that the Chesapeake boat will likely have more cockpit/less cabin, be hard chined, be shallower draft & be a bit faster (less wetted surface) for same hp & length.
I own a Sabre (42 Sedan). I've seen the Back Cove boats, but can't say that know much about them. I will say that Sabre is a quality company. Like everyone, I've dealt with a gazillion companies in my life, and Sabre stands out as something really special - not just among boat companies, but among all companies I've ever dealt with. They've been great to work with.
I'll add that if you are looking at the Back Cove, there are some other similar boats that you might want to see, including Hunt and MJM. There are others that have that downeast look that I'm drawing a blank on at the moment...
Here are some links:
http://www.mjmyachts.com/models.php
http://www.huntyachts.com/yachts_surfhunter_33.htm
- Dave
- Dave
I'll add that if you are looking at the Back Cove, there are some other similar boats that you might want to see, including Hunt and MJM. There are others that have that downeast look that I'm drawing a blank on at the moment...
Here are some links:
http://www.mjmyachts.com/models.php
http://www.huntyachts.com/yachts_surfhunter_33.htm
- Dave
- Dave