Any expereince - 2004 & up Sundancer 390/40?

M

MarkGibson61611

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exMember
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9974
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I'm just starting to consider my next boat, and the wife really likes the late model 390/40. I'm looking at gas (I know - heavy boat for Gas), but on the basis of my Silverton 34C with 8.1L Crusaders, I'm expecting that the Merc 8.1L HO (420 HP) would be 'Ok'... I boat on a river, with annual trips up to Lake Michigan for a couple of weeks. Annual usage is ~85 hours per year.

How well did the old Sundancer 380's do with big block gassers? (roughly the same boat w/o the hardtop, right?)

Thanks!
 
Mark,

The 390/40DA took the place of the 380DA in SeaRay's lineup, so the apx dimensions are the same, but it was a new design.

From a running standpoint, gassers do well. Good planing and good cruise speed. The downside is slow-speed handling when compared to a diesel, and of course the economy. The 380 returned mid .7's with 7.4's. I would expect the 390/40 to be in the same neighborhood with 8.1's. That's not terrible, but at 85 hours/year, you're on the higher side of average.

I've actually heard complaints about the diesel 390 being stern-heavy and sluggish. I was slightly surprised at that, but I can believe it. In some boats, the extra weight and turbo lag of the diesels takes a toll on performance.

I've seen several examples where boaters have bought diesels that were notorious, or underpowered or just sat there depreciating and the result was a total or near total loss of their investment. That has made me cautious about throwing around general statements about "too big for diesel" etc. There are many other factors.

With your cruising style though, I'd at least keep the oilburners in consideration.
 
Im not a fan of the 39/40.... Underpowered IMHO... search been discussed . I ll see if I can find it and attach the link . ( I also down like a few other items )

Rob
 
wow - same posting time, to the SECOND?!

Rob, if you buy a lottery ticket today, give me some numbers.
 
Rob,

I saw your post, and I know you ran one... and that you were unimpressed. I assume the issues around the dock are a matter of torque/bite & prop tunnels (although I didn't look under the 40 I saw at a show, I'm anticipating it had prop tunnels). I have much of the same with my Silverton 34C, I'm very used to needing throttle to get it to 'move', and added a bow thruster as well (I blame Walter V for wanting the bow thruster... That man's a bad influence! heheh).

I wonder what the torque curve looks like on the 8.1 HO... It's be nice to compare with the Cummins 5.9.

Thanks again!
 
I ran an '04 390 with Cummins QCB380s. That boat just got better with each passing weekend. Never found it slugish, nor did I feel a weight distribution problem. I too run on the high side of annual hours and the fuel economy was great. Best cruise was 2600rpm, 2 taps of down tab....28mph/26mpg. Not to mention the close quater handling with the diesel torque and the big props. A great boat. The 390 w/8.1s will burn 35 to 38 gal per hour.

Good luck in your search.
 
Why are you concerned about diesel? Diesel fuel is 50 to 75 cents cheaper than gas if you buy at a marina. There is no road tax for red dyed diesel. I think you would get quite a longer life and better fuel economy compared to a gas engine.
 
Mark

I currently own a 2006 40 Sundancer with the 8.1HO's. I think the question surrounding diesels or gas can only be answered with consideration given to your very specific annual use, length of time you expect to own the boat, comfort with manuevering and of course your financial appetite within the cost range for this model. I originally orderd my boat with diesels at a premium of approximately $50,000 over the identically equipped gas boat I ultimately took delivery on. Since my '06 is for sale (looking to move up to a 44 Sedan Bridge) I am well aware of the depreciation and relative values for this boat in gas and diesel. The $50k premium has depreciated down to about a $35k difference, at the moment. That may go up or down depending on a number of market factors. As for specific use, the way I made my decision was purely based on relative low annual use. I put about 60 hours a year on my boat. At cruise I burn between 36 and 40 GPH, the diesel is rated at 28 GPH, for an anuual difference in fuel burn of 720 gallons. At $.50/gal. difference I would have saved $360/yr. on fuel. The $50k premium would have raised my monthly payment by $330. I found that tough economics to get around, even without taking into account depreciation on the additional $50k. The depreciation an original owner has suffered does make the relative difference between the two smaller for a used boat buyer. I know some will talk about diesel torque and prop bite around the dock. I drove this boat with both diesel and gas before buying. Yes, the diesel responded quicker at idle, however I've never felt like the gas set up underperforms in any docking situation that I've faced. I rarely have had to "goose" the throttles to get the boat to move. My sense for any captain is; if handling the boat around the dock is going to drive your engine choice you probably don't belong in a boat of this size anyway. The gas boat also got up on plane and cruises quite comfortably without overworking the engines. I also thought maintenance on the two engine options would be different in nature but comprable in cost. This is where length of ownership comes into play; if you plan on putting a lot of annual hours on the boat or plan on holding the boat a long time, go with the diesels, they will likely last longer and fuel economy has a chance to make more sense, if not gas may be a consideration depending on the your views on the other aspects. All of this is just my limited view on this and I'm certain some will disagree. At the end of the day we've loved the 40 and I think you will too....regardless of your engine choice.
 
Well, you should always re-read before hitting send. I took a look at what I wrote yesterday and the numbers on annual fuel costs are wrong. At todays dock price of $3.75 a gallon for gas and assuming a $.50/gal difference for diesel the annual fuel savings is not just on the 720 gallons difference but on the entire gas fuel burn, sooooooo......it comes out to about $3540/year...if all the hours were at cruise. When I bought the boat, dock delivered gas and diesle were running about the same in NY, not sure what they are at right now, but on land diesel costs about $.50/gal more than gas. Not exactly sure how that translates at the dock and I'm sure it's influenced by the winter heating season and use of #2 oil for that purpose. Anyway, the moral of this is that the extra carrying costs of the diesel (absent depreciation) is about break even somehwere around 70 hours per year at cruise, so maybe 80-85 total hours if diesel is cheaper by $.50/gal........your actual experience may vary.
 
Mark

Well, cruising speed depends on whether or not my wife and kids are going away for the weekend on the boat with me...under most loads the boat cruises around 25 mph at 3600 rpm, burning approx. 38 gph.

Brian
 
BMAC,
Gas< I assume, and if so, sounds right.

Mark,
I like the 38,39, Sundancer, but compared to the Silverton 34c it is truely a huge step down. Smaller boat, mercs vs crusader, and most important, you cant service those motors.

The advantages to the searay is the open area in the cockpit, plus those searay partys.

I will assume you like the open cokpit and that is your draw to this boat. If that is the reason then I get it. Rob, a friend of mine and a die hard searay guy already told you this boat is a pig (underpowered). But let's put that aside, servicing tghis boat is a nightmare, that would be my concern.
 
Walt...I'm not sure what you mean by "Servicing this boat is a nightmare" statement. Impellers are tighter on a Merc than crusader, but anything else specific????
 
Thanks all!

Walter, I do like my 34C, but I'm getting the itch for another express cruiser... I hear you on the tight access! Maybe I need to keep saving and go bigger!

Cheers,
Mark Gibson
 
Mark,
Im sorry I didnt revisit this thread. Bmac. I came from a 34 gas dancer. When i bay tested the 40 the first thing I noticed was the weight. The bay was sloppy and the boat got pushed around way more then my 34 dancer would have. The boat did not feel balanced. Ive been around all kinds of boats my entire life so i feel very comfortable expressing my thoughts as I have the knowledge to back it up. Im just stating my opinion. Its all i have. When compared to a smaller boat 34 and a larger boat 44 . The 40 did very poorly with the gas motors. Docking manners I can not comment on as the dealer docked the boat. Now take it a step further . this was an empty boat no gear no water ( winter ) no fuel. load up the boat and what I experienced will only get worse. Then take the boat out in some real world scenario's ( ocean ) and not a boat i would want. again my opinion. i started in a 26 dancer .... so I have some searay seat time . Please dont take this as an attack just stating my experience as having seat time in alot other boats .

And yes MArk, hand out with walter and ur wallet will be much lighter.
Rob
 
Rob

I have plied the same waters as you, maybe even longer, coming out of the Anchorage and SS3 since the mid 70's. We share the same thoughts on many things related to the bay and SS3, I even have a pic of your 44 and my 40 virtually side by side at Watch Hill. Did the 40 you drove have the base 370HP engines, that may be a difference. I went from very small outboards, to larger outboards, to I/O's...took a few years off for wife and little kids...and before the 40 a 320DA with I/B's. The 40 is indeed a heavy boat compared to the 320, though I've never felt pushed around by the seas even through Plum Gut. Maybe I'm less shy with the throttles or maybe I just haven't yet felt the powerful pleasure of being a diesel owner. I did drive the 40 with the QSB's and didn't see a tremendous difference, at least not enough to fork over another $55k. I'm not sure what the 44 would feel like with my engines much less the base 8.1's but Sea Ray does deliver a lot of those too. I would imagine your 44 cost closer to $500k and my 40 was closer to $300K, and economics for me, unfortunately, does have a seat at the table. Anyway, mine is for sale solely for the desire to move into a Sedan Bridge...which is a whole other set of preferences to debate, but gas vs. diesel won't be part of that, the 44DB only comes with diesels. See you at WH.

Brian
 
Brian.... U werent the guy with the salon a/c issue were u ?

I honestly dont know if the 40 had the standard 8.1's or the HO's. I would hope that ss3 would not order the boat with standard 8.1's.

U own the boat , U would be a better judge... I was only on the boat for a hr ...

Rob

Rob
 
Yes, it's finally been resolved. Wow, SS3 gave you an hour on the boat for a test drive? They must've known you were a big spender.
 
And yes, SS3 did order most of the gas 40's with the 370HP 8.1's....mine was shipped to them by mistake, though they tell me they no longer order them that way. They also have NO chance of seeling me another brand new boat.
 
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