Azimut build quality in the long haul

H

hays8010

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I am attempting to narrow the field of choices in the 45-55 foot range, age 5-10 years. I have several makes/models on the short list, one of which is Azimut.

I'm all set on size/shape/layout/resale for those candidates on my short list. I just need help with build quality after some use. Engines are engines in any boat, so we don't need to go there (although the Italians tend to have excess Hp for boat).

Azimut builds in the higher range (in both length and price), and that limits the number of folks with familiarity with these boats. I have heard very little scuttlebutt about this brand (good or bad). The other boats on the list are much more popular overall and on the Great Lakes where I am located.

For similar sizes and years, should I expect same, better or worse than with Sea Ray, Cruisers or Carver/Marquis? Does Azimut shine alongside Princess/Viking Sport Cruisers (excellent quality at an excellent price) or are they pretty-average pretty boats at a pretty premium penny?

I know enough to hire a surveyor to check out a particular boat, but I'm not down to specific boat yet. So if you could, chat up a few dockmates about their experience with Azimut.
 
I personally knew a surveyor that worked directly for a very large Azimut dealer. They had to send him to Italy every 2 weeks for 2 weeks stints to inspect and have corrected all of the defects that were being built into the boats. The dealer would spend 2 months re-doing many things on the new boats before they could be sold, after the new program, they spent about one month the fix the boats.

Me personally, I wouldn't buy an Azimut. Too many real stories I have heard about them that scares me off.

Sunseeker/Princess would be higher on my list.
 
I get several calls a year for their rub rails. Even with a hull number, I have never got an answer from anyone at Azimut or their dealers regarding their OEM rub rail/extrusions (exception being one former dealership closed/sold and had a few select rail parts left over but they went fast once I found them). I have usually had to come up with an alternative replacement or modification.
 
My yard is used by the local dealer for their service yard. There is always 55’s & 62’s in the yard being worked on- most are for sale.
My surveyor recently did a 55 and was surprise how poor it ran in the rough. I found this surprising as well, being a Euro boat I thought this would have been a non-issue and it would be a tank in the rough.
Very Sexy boat, but I agree with Jonathan, if you’re looking for a Euro sedan in that size range look at the Viking/ princess, Sunseeker also check out Beneteau & Uniesse
 
Having looked at a lot of boats in this size range and above, of the brands you mention I would put the American-built Marquis clearly at the top of the list from a quality and ergonomics standpoint. I am a Hatteras man myself, which I strongly suggest you add to your list, but have liked what I saw on various Marquis, which we went through in detail at the Miami boat show. The Marquis is roughly to a Carver what Hatteras is to SeaRay. I did not like the engine room and systems layouts on the Princess (there was a nice one in Westport Harbor) or on the Viking/Princesses I have seen. You would be well served to stay with American-built Marquis or Hatteras for great after the sale service and parts availability.

George
Hatteras 56MY
Boston Whaler 130 Sport
 
i've never owned or run a Mutt but what i've heard (from captains mostly) is not very positive. system installation, especially electrical, seem to be an issue as apparently Azimut contracts electrical work and the results are unpredictable from boat to boat.

very stylish, but usability comes second with things like cleats in the wrong place, poorly designed rubrail than doens't always protect the entire hull and ski slope foredeck making it hard to stand (on the smaller ones).

Looking at 5 to 10 year old boats, you're probably out of luck with Marquis since they only appeared a few years ago. Same with Hatteras... even though Hatteras "created" the small MY concept in the 70s/80s they basically abandoned the market in the 90s.

Viking/Princess and Fairline are probably what you're going to find the most in that size/year range along with the "usual" suspect: Cruisers, Carver, Meridian and Sea Ray. And dont' overlook Bayliner, their 50+ line of PH MYs had very little in common with the smaller models and are actually pretty good boats with a fairly good reputation.

finally, keep in mind that as you get into 8 to 10 year old boat, maintenance history and usage becomes as importnat if not more, than the builder name
 
Matthew
How about sharing the type of boating you do or want to do and besides build quality (which is important) what other features you’re looking for.

The thought of a “mutt” makes me think sporty sedan with a low to mid 20Knot cruise, 2-3 staterooms with 2 heads, upper & lower helm etc…
 
Agree with all the above. I lived in Italy for 3 years and got to see a few boats in fabrication as well as a ton of them at the Genoa Boat Show. Their style and visible things are pure sex. The construction, not so much. I agree you would be wise to add Hatt to your list and take a serious look at the Bayliner 4788. IMO, that boat is very well laid out and as Pascal said not at all like the smaller Bayliners WRT construction. I have never been on their 50+ footer but a freind is looking at trading up from his 4788.
 
Pascal is correct about different teams hired to do each boat. They sub out many areas of construction on those boats. My surveyor friend was amazed at the creative ways the Italians installed electric systems on these boats.

Italian boats are famous for poor electrical systems, design, and installation. Most of the brands, not just Mutts.

I talked to a knowledgeable HVAC guy I know, he had a job on an Mutt, had to remove one or two a/c compressor units that were blocking the unit that needed to be worked on. Who ever designed that should be keelhauled................
 
I have almost no experience with Azimuts other than admiring them at boat shows. A few years ago my wife and I went on one. The broker was a young guy and mistakenly thought we were really in the market for a $600k boat. I poked around the boat a bit and was checking at the helm when I turned around to see the broker all excited as he showed my wife the custome Azimut China in its dedicated storage. I knew right then it was time to leave...
 
I'm happy to see abalmuth on this post since he has one of the boats at the top of my list!

We are not dock-sitters and want to get out of the marina. We want to get out in the lake beyond the range of death-skis and drunk speedboaters. We will cross Lake Michigan, run up to Mackinaw and even get into the St. Lawrence on long-distance runs. Less floating condo, more sea-faring RV. Need to live on it for a week or two at a time.

Being on the Great Lakes with a short season, we need a vessel designed to take the pounding that these lakes can dish out when the weather isn't optimal. With a short season, we still want to make progress even if wind is a problem (uh, "windy city" is my hometown).

The newest express boats are very much our style, but not our price range. An express with enclosed salon is perfect. We chartered a 2006 Sea Ray 62 in Florida set-up this way and it was awesome. We'd prefer to avoid living in the cave of the express, so at least three-side enclosure of salon is a must (again, only newer models have this).

We basically want a sporty sedan with the flybridge lopped off. We aren't going to use the upper helm enough to justify its cost & weight. The flybridge/sedans with a lower helm are a good compromise, but staying short enough to fit budget is tough. Oh, and the admiral wants a mid-ship master stateroom (ouch! that cuts the list down).

  • We have looked at the Silverton 43 with optional lower helm but it felt as crowded as an express.
  • Azimut has a dual helm below 50ft, but the layout isn't great. The Azimut 55 has an ideal layout--and could be had next year for near $400K--but all my worst fears are being confirmed. I'm striking it and the eventual 43S and 62S expresses from the list.
  • Cruisers 5000 is the shortest dual-helm with a good plan, and I'm quite fond of the larger Cruisers express boats. The 52 and 46 expresses are worthy compromises and the 47 coupe prototype looks like the best express ever in that size, but it will be $700 new.
  • Princess/Viking have a great reputation, but limited availability in the Lakes and only the newest, largest layouts are desireable.
  • Pilothouses (Navigator, Ocean Alexander, Carver/Marquis, big Bayliner) isolate the lower helm from the main salon a little too much for us, although some (Carver 53-57ft) are better layout than others (Nav, O/Alex).

I think I've looked at every brand everywhere (isn't the internet great?) to evaluate the layout, price and availability. I'm surprised how little variability there is in design & layout. Is price/quality the only real differentiator beyond express v. bridge?

We still evaluate newer & nicer boats because everything depreciates (eventually). We may hold until the better boats move into range. However, our brand support is limited in the Lakes, so we would struggle with service on all those Florida brands. And as Pascal states, at our age of boats, there is going to be a bit of service required.
 
IMO, a mid stateroom would not be a deal breaker. How much time do you really spend there? A lot of folks find them ugly as sin, but I like the 48 Sea Ray Motor Yacht. It's on my short list as soon as I hit the lottery.
 
Mathew
Ask me anything you want about the 5000 Sedan Sport , I'm obviously jaded about the boat & right now if you find a good one it should be at a steal.

This is a merge of posts I made on this site:

I run from the lower helm most of the time, visibility is great – a small blind spot looking over my right shoulder where the fridge is, but I will look out the pilothouse door when docking, matter of fact I often run the boat by myself and just step out the door to the dock with the bow and spring lines

Not only does the lower helm have all the comforts of home, heat, A/C, defroster etc.. with its lower center of gravity the ride is much nicer then the bridge in the rough
As far as rough water running, as I get older my idea of ‘rough’ is ever evolving and today we are more likely to hang out than run if very rough stuff

Our last boat was a diesel powered Formula 41PC which laughed at most rough water so I expect a lot and I think the 5000sedan does a great job-

GPH?: A lot depends on winds, wave height & frequency but most often if they are below 2-3 footer I run at 22-26 Knots depending on how much fuel I want to burn –about 42-48 GPH -this range depend on conditions – if it’s like glass I can run at 26+kts and burn about 42-44 GPH-if it’s snotty out, up to about 4 footers, it could be 22kts at the same GPH – at WOT –which is now about 31+ knots I burn 66GPH- if it gets above 4 footers I back down to 17+ kts and it runs nice. For the size/style boat that it is it runs great
When cruisers decided to get into the sedan space they felt they had to compete with a lot of the euro boats – they used some of the best components money could buy – I’m 6’1” 222lbs and can get completely around the big CATS and all the equipment is easy to get to. The boat has V-drives but they’re NOT mounted at the A$$ of the boat; they are under the Salon, at least 6-8 feet in front of the transom. This brings their weigh closer to the center of the boat. The Dripless boxes are in the open and easy to get to

The 5000 has a stairway inside as well as outside to the fly bridge- the bridge seats about 10 people and has a sun pad for 4, has a wet bar/ice maker/fridge, it has 3 staterooms & 2 full heads with separate showers. The Master Queen berth is in the center of the boat and does not touch the hull, read this as no noise (hull slapping), if you want the noise the stateroom in the bow is bigger than most express master staterooms. Couch in the salon opens to a queen. The 3rd stateroom has a washer & dryer and they work! BTW it carries 150 gals of water & 100 Gals of waste
 
A Michigan-built Tiara 5200 Salon might be worth looking at. Great build quality and local to your waters.
 
quote:
Originally posted by caltexfla

A Michigan-built Tiara 5200 Salon might be worth looking at. Great build quality and local to your waters.

Click to expand...
Absolutely a great boat!
 
quote:
Originally posted by abalmuth

quote:
Originally posted by caltexfla

A Michigan-built Tiara 5200 Salon might be worth looking at. Great build quality and local to your waters.

Click to expand...
Absolutely a great boat!

Click to expand...


I was thinking the exact same thing but didn't want to sound like a hommer :-)
 
I was thinking the same thing - Tiara would definitely be on my list.
 
The guy in the slip next to me had a 55 Mutt and just moved up to a 62 Mutt. And can only assume that he is happy with the build quality, I have not spoken to him.
 
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