issue found during sea trial

L

lsilver

Member
Joined
May 10, 2005
RO Number
17328
Messages
112
Hi,

when on sea trial, when trying to start 96 330 sundancer with 7.4 v drives, the starb engine would not start with the actuater pressed alarm was beeping when pressed, port was fine, but was able to start with emergency actuater. any one familiar with this type of issue. what could be possible causes? engines ran fine from that point on, but trying to figure out what i am possibly getting into, and how much to fix

thanks,
 
I am kind of confused here so I am going back to basics. To me, it sounds like weak batteries all the way around. Two batteries under the jump seat behind the helm. One is for the starboard engine, the other is for the generator. On the port side in the bilge is a pair of batteries. These serve as the house bank and port engine start. The emergency acuator switch you speak of pairs up the port bank and (IIRC) starboard engine starting batteries.

The alarms are supposed to sound when you have the ignition system energized but the engines are not running. If the engines are originals, they are probably carbed. The port engine may have had fuel in the bowl and the starboard did not. Evaporation is not uncommon in carbed engines.

You do not mention how you finally got the stbd engine started. If you jumped it off a jump pack I would still lean toward the spent battery theory. If you got the port started and then farted around with the stbd engine and it finally started via the emergency switch perhaps the port engine charged the port bank enough to jolt the starboard engine. I'm out of brain cells after that.

What is far more important is to see if the risers have been modified to account the distinct probabolity of water injestion due to a poor install design. It's why Saint Max is running 6.2's instead of the original 7.4's.

HTH
 
starboard engine started after surveyer pushed the emergency switch. so it sounds like this might be just a pair of dead batteries. we could not get westerbeke gen started either. wasn't sure why there was a pre heat button, it seem to crank gen if preheat and gen start button pushed at same time cranked over alot but did not start.

now as far as the riser issue ... please tell
what is the design flaw and how do you fix it?
 
I think if you don't know, maybe you should not have a boat.
 
The preheat is a misnomer on the panel and is geared more toward a diesel unit that has a glow plug to preheat the system prior to starting.

The preheat on a gas unit actually energizes the fuel shut off solenoid and the choke amongst other things. If you press the start switch to its "on" position then press in the "preheat" button, you can hear the solenoids engage.

Mine is extremely hard to start when it has sat for some time. I need to have it looked at again this year. The only thing I can think of is that the "STOP" switch cuts off the fuel and shorts out the ignition system to cut it down immediately. That is starving the system of fuel or overloading it. I don't know which. The engine sputters until it is warmed up then it runs like a champ.

HTH.
 
WRT the riser issue. If they are original, walk away. The elbow in the risers need to be 13+" above the water line when the boat is fully loaded to include pax, fuel, water, ice and beer. If the elbow in lower than that, the engine can suck cooling water back into the block while at idle. There is even more of a chance if you are backing down or coming off plane and let the engine go to idle too fast.

The fix is a riser extension that raises the elbow to the required length. If the extension is not there, you are courting trouble

HTH
 
JimPend........?????WTF..........VERY educational. I'm sure lsilver knows EXACTLY what to look for considering the amount of detail you included in your post. I'm not sure I follow how not being familiar with riser problems on a '96 330 sundancer means you shouldn't own a boat???? If I'm off base here I applogize, but I fail to see how this post was either informative or educational.

Pardon my vent, I grow tired of this B.S.
 
quote:
Originally posted by kindredspirits

JimPend........?????WTF..........VERY educational. I'm sure lsilver knows EXACTLY what to look for considering the amount of detail you included in your post. I'm not sure I follow how not being familiar with riser problems on a '96 330 sundancer means you shouldn't own a boat???? If I'm off base here I applogize, but I fail to see how this post was either informative or educational.

Pardon my vent, I grow tired of this B.S.

Click to expand...


It's his nature. They still are working on the correct combo of meds. No luck so far.
 
below picture is of the engines and risers. can you tell if they are new or old style.

IMG_0756.jpg
 
Old style.

http://www.boatfix.com/bykeywordmerc.asp?textfield=riser&texttype=2&submit=Search

Go about 1/2 way down the page and you will get an image of what I am trying to explain. Pix and 1000 words thing.

I "THINK" the mfg part number on the page is "807476A 7". Mike Sibley at Boat Fix could help you better than I WRT what you need should you decide to go forward. As you can see it's not cheap. Some folks better with a wrench than me could aid in explaining the reasons these phenomena happen.

It's not just Sea Ray, it's boats in general that do not have the proper static line clearance that experience this problem.

There are plenty of boats out there. You will find yours. Hell, maybe I own it already!!:)

HTH
 
I think there is a 4" or 6" spacer between the manifold and the riser that is the fix. They are not installed on these engines.
 
"I think if you don't know, maybe you should not have a boat."

Wow, that really contributed a lot .... a man could really learn a lot from Jim!!!
 
Most of us learned a long time ago to just ignore Jim's posts. Me thinks he gets in a bad mood after he tips a few........IMHO
 
Not sure if they are new or old style.......but IMHO they appear to have been spray painted to hide some rust......you can notice the overspray on the exhaust tubes and water hoses. Plus it appears someone eliminated the OEM 3" riser blocks ( to save $$ ). The exhaust angle is marginal at least. Not knowing the true hours and maintainance history.....I'd have the risers and manifolds changed....and add 6" blocks for starters.

I just did this same job on my 7.4 motors last week.......and went from OEM 3" blocks to 6" blocks......for piece of mind.

newrisersmanifolds4-10-09004.jpg
 
quote:
Originally posted by JimPend

I think if you don't know, maybe you should not have a boat.

Click to expand...


This fine forum is supported by those who contribute for the good and welfare of all.

It's a valuable place to learn from those who know more and there are many very knowledgeable folks here who offer their expertise and experience.

Sadly there are a few bad actors among us who would benefit both themselves and the forum if they would consider the value of what they contribute before posting and instead, seek professional help for themselves.

RWS
 
By the way, ISilver, we have a 2001 340 Dancer. It is a similar boat to the 1996 330. We love the boat. I think you would like the 330 if it checks out. They are easy to operate around the marina and a joy to cruise.
 
update:
the fluid results came back

engine 1
Judging by the high potassium and sodium 1.36% of this sample was anti-freeze. If these are
open-cooling systems the sodium may be from seawater but we can't make that call without a little more
info on these engines. Wear was well above average so we think a coolant leak exists and it is affecting
wear. Aluminum comes from the pistons, while iron and lead are from the bearings. Fuel at 1.08% isn't a
problem.

engine 2

Potassium and sodium were very high in this sample, as well, which shows that 2.41% of this sample
was anti-freeze. Iron was even higher in this sample than the portside engine and along with the high lead
shows excess wear at the bearings. These engines need some attention before they see much more use.
Anti-freeze is the great, silent destroyer of piston engines.

plus issues on tran oil of one of the v drives

I am going to pass on this one

unfortunately boating season for me is now ended as this was my last week to decide if i was going to keep a slip
 
If we all were master mechanics like Jim, we would not need this forum.
 
It's not a pass if the seller is willing to drop $30K off the price and everything else checks out OK. Tell the seller the engines are shot and need replacement.

If you have had it surveyed, offer the survey up for sale by HIN. It's a way to recover some money, and...............
 
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