Newcomer intro and a question re: engine life

[rapscallion]

Hello all. I'm new to this group. Great group of people you have here. I hope over time that I can learn a few things, contribute to the ongoing conversation, and maybe make some new friends in the process.

I did quite a bit of boating as a kid with my family, worked for several years for a PNW yacht builder, and lived for nine years on a floating home with my own family. I'm now looking at purchasing my first boat. I've asked myself all the usual questions and I have a pretty good idea of the type of boating I want to do, where I want to go, how long I want to be able to stay out for, how fast I want to go, and how many people I'm going to boat with. I live on the south coast in British Columbia and I know the waters in my area reasonably well. After a couple of years of looking at boats and considering the type of boat I want, I've narrowed the choice down to the Carver 3007 and 3207 aft cabin models. As budget is a consideration I'm looking at early 1980s models. I like the two stateroom, two head layout of the 3207, but the 3007 will probably work and will be somewhat more economical.

I have a couple of queries for the group concerning engines. Many of the boats I'm looking at have more than 1,000 hours on the engines. The majority of the boats have 220hp or 270hp Crusaders. One has Fords. I'm aware that at around 1,000 hours one should be at least starting to think about having some fairly major work done on the propulsion system. I'm also aware that well cared-for gasoline engines can last well beyond 1,000 hours. Twice that and more isn't unheard of. It also seems to be generally agreed that the health of a vessel's exhaust systems – risers and manifolds – are important contributing factors to the duration of the engines' lives. Ditto clean carburators and fresh oil. My questions for the group are:

- how many hours are on your boat's engines?
- what have you had to do to them to get them there?
- what do you consider to be the average useful life of a pair of 220hp Crusaders? 270hp? Others?
- have your boat's engines been rebuilt or repowered? What was your experience?
- boats are often sold with engine hours listed as “xxx hours since rebuild." What work is typically done in a marine engine rebuild to give it a second life?

I look forward to your responses.

Thanks!

 

[Oasis]

Rap
I have a 1988 3807. It has Crus 454 big blocks with 2200 hrs on it. I have had it almost 9 years and it had about 525 hrs on it when I bought. I use it like a trawler and cruise at 8.5 mph and get 1 mpg. I have never had a problem with either engine. You may want to look at the mid 80's 3607 that way you can keep it longer before you outgrow it. That boat is an excellent choice. Also, make sure you get one with an aft deck hardtop.

 

[pdecat]

Oasis’ data demonstrates that hours alone are not indicative of remaining engine life. The way he uses them they could last for thousands more hours with careful attention. The real measure of engine wear is the amount of work done or fuel used or how hard was the engine worked? Unfortunately we never get that data but if you get to meet the owner and he describes operating like Oasis that is a good start.
It is worth noting that regardless of how hard engines are worked the vast majority of the engine failures discussed here over the years failed because of poor maintenance primarily water ingestion problems.

 

[awboater]

My guess is the fuel economy between a 3007 and 3207 is going to be negligible.

 

[Oasis]

pdecat,
I agree, regular oil changes and tune ups help.

awboater,
The fuel economy of even a 36 can be about the same. Just stay at or under hull speed and you will get great mileage. The nice thing about my boat is that running at 1600 rpm's I don't have to worry about carbon building in the engine.

 

[walterv]

Bruce is right on target with his response. Get a good survey, do the oil test on the motors. Hours on a motor is not a concern, health of those motors should be a concern. Survey, Survey is how you will get a clue.

Not sure where you are, but post survey questions on the survey forum on this site. Al Prisco is a great guy and the moderator of the survey forum, if he is not in your neck of the woods, I would ask him about the tests your boat needs and how to find the right guy to survey your boat .

 

[bob tait]

Oasis,
I also have 454 Crusaders and I run about 1400rpm to stay under hull speed. After about every 3 to 4 hrs I will bring it up to plane for 15 minutes, about 3,200rpm to clean out the carbon. Is this necessary? Do you ever bring it up to plane? I have about 800 hrs on mine and the carbon build up concerns me.

 

[Mike Dzurko]

I've got 454 Crusaders in a 38 Santego (91). They had around 750 hrs when I bought 4 years ago, now at about 1000 hours. Still don't burn a drop of oil and start and run smooth. I'm generally at around 1250 RPM and get about 1.75 mpg at that speed. I'll occasionally run on plane at 3200 RPM for 10-20 minutes. This is a freshwater boat with original manifolds, etc.

 

[rapscallion]

Great responses; thanks.

Having the boat surveyed prior to purchase is a given; finding a good marine surveyor in the area in which the vessel is located seems to be the tricky part. Thanks walterv for suggesting I ask Al Prisco on the survey forum about marine surveyors. I'll definitely do that.

As it seems to be at least somewhat of a buyer's market at present I was thinking of the following pre-closing sale subjects:

- marine survey by a qualified marine surveyor;
- mechanical inspection by a qualified marine mechanic
- engine oil sample analysis
- transmission oil sample analysis

What about domestic water sample analysis? Anyone have problems with domestic water purity?
Would laboratory analysis of a fuel sample from the tanks inform of corrosion inside the tanks? Anyone done this?

 

[Oasis]

Bob,

The last time I was on a plane in my boat was two or three years ago and only for a few minutes. It has been two years since I replace the plugs and the engine starts and runs perfect. In my opinion it is not necessary to "blow the carbon out" We used that as an excuse when we were kids driving GTO's or Malibu's with big blocks but not now.

 

[rtribble]

The 3607 is, in my opinion , one of the most beautiful boats you can buy in that price range. That having been said,I would follow Oasis' recommendation that you also consider the 3607 with the hard top. With the current price market down as it is you can upgrade to this boat at a very reasonable price and the size difference is well worth it. This is the boat we have and have no regrets with it.
Do stay away from salt water boats as this will reduce your boat's life expectancy considerably. Also some Carvers had "blistering" problems but this was only at the gel coat and can be remedied by a somewhat potentially costly, depending on how extensive the blistering is, but effective procedure of removal and barrier coating. Just be sure that the price of the boat takes this cost into effect and you will be OK on that issue.