Trojan 440 Express

[JKosinski]

I see that several members have this model. I'm lookimg at a 1998. The boat is shrinkwrapped for the winter, so inspection is difficult.

It seemed like the windshield is very low, I was looking at the top of the windshield frame? It felt like the steering wheel was not centered to the drivers seat, offset to the left? Are these illusions from sitting on land?

Owner claims cruise speed 20kt rb2@gr5t1800RPM fuel consumption 25GPH? 450Hp Cummins.

No boat design is perfect, are there any issues with this model, ride and handling, ergonimics, layout, access for service, things they could have done better?

Is there something about this model that put it above the other boats you considered?

We live more than an hour away from the marina. Every weekend we can, we are on the boat from Friday after noon till Sunday evening. We want more of a live aboard than our 3300 Maxum provides.

The big attraction to this model is the possibility that my RIB will stow in the trunk (101"Lx39"Wx19"D deflated) and a hydralic swim platform to launch it from.

 

[Starry Night]

I see you are new to the forum and this is your first post. Welcome to Boatered and the Carver forum.

Here is some information on the Trojan 440 Express. We have owned our Trojan 440 Express for 2 1/2 years. We look at looked at this model for approximately 1 ½ years prior to purchasing. We owned another Carver for 9 years. It was the Montego 3257 and loved this boat as well. We enjoyed this boat every weekend from Friday to Sunday/Monday, and on our yearly 2 ½ week vacations. Like you, we were in the market for a larger boat as our family was growing. We were looking for a larger boat with the following, Diesels, 3 stateroom, two heads, large beam, accessible engine room, large open cockpit area, large saloon/salon, storage compartment for tools and toys (aka Lazerette/garage), room for Sat TV, outside shower, anchor wash down, larger swim platform. I think everything else was gravy.

So getting back to your questions.
This boat is night and day compared to your Maxum and my past Carver 3257. I could talk for hours about that. Trust me totally different boat. As soon as I took the helm while taking it for a test run I knew right then. With this boat I can cruise by most boats and not back down on the throttles as we pass each other. With my Carver 3257, I would have to throttle back. This boat is heavy and wide. When you get on the boat it does not move. When you cruise with guests and they move from port to starboard the boat does move or list from side to side. No need to play with trim tabs. It’s a beast.

The windshield may appear low, however it is not, and the boat is big. While standing or sitting piloting the boat the wind should not affect you. You can see clearly out through the windshield. You may need a seat cushion if you are trying to look over the windshield while sitting and piloting the boat. The steering may look offset however it is not, due to the double wide helm and passenger seats.

Handling of this behemoth is great. I give it a 9.
Hull is made by Hatteras and solid fiberglass and is not cored. I give it a 9.5
Ride comfort, I give it a 9.5.
Sound decibel level while running, I give it a 9. No need to talk loud while cruising.
Access to Engines I give it a 9.
Ability to access and work on engine, I give it a 9. I can get my but in almost every area in the engine room and I am not small.
Generator Access is good but the access panel was 3 – 4 inches too small. Generator exhaust could be a little quieter. I think a larger muffler lift would help. I am changing that this year. I give it an 8.
Storage, I give it a 9. More than enough.
Galley area, I give it an 8.5
Salon/Saloon, I give it a 10.
Entertainment center with Surround sound, I give it an 8.
Heads, I give it an 8.
Staterooms, I give it a 9.
Design layout, I give it a 10.
Design layout and Ergonomics, I give it a 10, Way ahead of it time and still looks great after the first model was introduce back in 1996
Accessibility to run wire, plumbing, cable, I give it a 8.5
Lazerette and extended swim platform, I give it a 10. Great feature on the boat. A dink cannot fit in the Lazerette while it is fully inflated. My dink is 4’11 wide and 11’2” long. My Zodiac is a 310 with air bottom.
Davit in Lazerette, I give it a 9. Great asset.
TNT Lift in lieu of standard extended platform, I give it a 7. As much as I wanted one initially and probably still due, were more problematic as they got older and parts were in limited supply or no longer available by TNT due to the Katrina flood, plus my boat did not have this feature. TNT lost the info and molds. Parts needed to be custom made if not available. I looked into this prior to purchasing our Trojan. The last person I spoke with paid $8,000 to repair his.

When it comes to cruising here is my information.
I have twin Volvo TAMD-74P-EDC (electronic diesel control) with 480 hp each. Love these engines.
I cruise at 2350rpm, 24knot/ 27-28mph and burns 36-38gls per hour. For the most part this is where I run.
Wide open, 2600rpm, 27-28knots/ 31-32mph and burns 46-48gls per hour.
Hogan who is on this forum as well purchased his Trojan this past year after being wined and dined on ours (LOL) and loved it so much, said, I gotta have one (LOL), only kidding, can provide you his information on cruising speed and burn rate as he has 450 Cummins in his 1999 Trojan 440 Express. Dave, Audrey II also purchased a 1996 Trojan 440 Express, He can also provide you his information regarding his boat.
Man it's tough being a trend setter. LOL. Dave, Audrey II and I are in the same marina. Mike, Hogan's marina is 1/2 mile from ours.

One item I would have like to have on the boat would be a hardtop close to the original one offered but not closed in to the windshield. A little more open.

There is always room for improvement, however for my family, we love this boat and enjoyed it greatly. From an overall perspective, this boat is as perfect as it can be for me and my family. I think they nailed everything a boater wanted in an Express boat. If you need additional info feel free to contact me.

You can also do a search on the forum for additional information. Here is a link with pictures of my boat.

http://www.pbase.com/rbutka/2001_trojan_yacht&page=all

 

[Audrey II]

I have owned mine for 1 1/2 years and love it. Much like Bob there are few things I would change on the boat. I do not have the three stateroom version I have only two I added a filler to the salon couch for a third bed it rarely gets used so I enjoy the additional space and washer/dryer that you gain from this model. There have been very few changes to the hull and interior design throughout the years although my boat is a 1996 many people thought I bought it new I has timeless lines and was ahead of its time in design. I have 3126 Cats in mine with 420 hp each. I do not get the cruising speed that Bob does but I believe I get better economy. I cruise at 20 mph and burn about 20 gph. I do not have fuel monitor like Bob so I can not be as accurate with these numbers I have to use gallons to hours for my numbers but I have cruised far and long enough to be somewhat accurate. I have been very pleased with the comfort and ride it handles like no other boat I have had the pleasure to drive or even ride on. I agree with most of the ratings that Bob has given however with the Cats I find the engine room hard to get around it's hard to get to the outer sides of the motors so checking the batteries is a little hard. I believe they my have relocated them on the newer model to the middle something I should consider. I do not have the extended swim platform but I have been considering adding one this winter.
My pro list is very long and my con list is almost no existent. If you come across a bad review for Pascoe do not let it bother you. After reading it I almost pulled out of my deal when purchasing but 99% of what he complains about I think are unfounded, everyone is entitled to there option. I have spoken to several owners and past owners of this model boat I have yet to hear anyone disappointed with it. If you can get a good deal on a clean and maintained Trojan 440 I would highly recommend it. I don't know you boating experience but this is a big boat it handle great but have not seen one with thrusters so make sure this is a size boat you are comfortable docking. The boat has a 15' beam and draft of 53" that right 53" not 48" make sure there is enough water where ever you plan to keep it.
I hope this helps. If you have any questions feel free to email me at david at phonemd.com
I know Hogan is on vacation but I'm sure he will have words of wisdom to add as the newest member to the Trojan family.

 

[HOGAN]

Checking in from sunny, hot Aruba!

Starry Night is right, after seeing his boat and spending time on it, we decided that it was a good fit for us.

I have the Cummins 450's in mine, but don't have enough running time to give you numbers. When we picked it up, we ran at 25 MPH and it rode great. This is a huge boat with plenty of room. We basically live aboard in the summer and look forward to 2010.

 

[JKosinski]

Thanks for the responses.
Bob
The big items on my wish list are larger bathroom, island bed, larger salon (for rain days), and a better way to stow the RIB. We have a Roskelly/Olsen tilt davit which is the best solution for my boat, but the RIB always blocks the back of the boat. I will measure the trunk when the shrink wrap is off in the spring, If the RIB can't be stowed in the trunk, almost any 40-45 ft boat can meet my needs.
The maxum cruises rb2@gr5t25MPH, many times the cross chop on lake St Clair will pound you going that fast.
Your fuel consumption numbers are more like what I was thinking.
I agree with your opinion on hard tops when you consider the long term cost of soft tops and how rarely they are folded back. Unfortunately this boat and many are less attractive with the factory hard top.

Audrey
Based on your fuel consumption, maybe the seller isn't too far off on his fuel consumption claims. Thanks for the info on the draft, the boat I'm looking at is on land, I will take measurements.
I noticed that at one piont you were looking at a Cruisers 4270. There is one available for what appears to be a great deal. My wife likes it better than the Trojan. The cruisers was in the water, not shrinkwrapped, so presentation was better. She mainly liked the twin bed set up in the aft cabin and the deal would be less expensive. But........it is a repo, came from salt water, and what troubled me the most, cored hull.
If we move up, this will be the last boat, my wife may trade me if I'm not satisfied with the next boat.
The challenge is determining what the trojan and my Maxum is really worth. The broker pitched the posibility that the seller would take my boat on trade. The pricing guides (ABOS, BUC and NADA) have as much as a 30% differance on valuations.

 

[Audrey II]

I liked the 4270 until I stepped on the Trojan you really need to see this boat uncovered and cleaned they are worlds apart in my option. The one that I was looking at had gas motors which I believe would have been a big mistake. The boat does show well but I will tell you this the Trojan is built like a tank and handles like a dream. As Bob said wakes that used to toss my last 33 footer go unnoticed in this boat it's hard to believe but true. Which ever you decide you will be happy they are both nice boats.

 

[HOGAN]

When I went out on my test drive with the owner, he specifically looked for big wakes to cross to show me how well the boat handled them.

The Trojan is MUCH bigger than the Cruisers.

As an aside, Starry Night, Audrey II and I rafted up last fall. With just our 3 boats, we were 45' across!

 

[abalmuth]

You have very little to worry about with the coring on the 4270, Like many builders Cruisers knows what it’s doing and has a strong reputation of good hulls.
The 4270 is a great boat and I can’t say much bad about,

BUT it does not come close to the 44' Trojan 440 Express! Construction is top notch and the boat is huge, more like the room of a 50- I would feel much more secure in the Trojan in snotty water

From all account’s the Trojan is a better blue water boat and the Cummins C’s are one of the most bullet-proof engines every made. I had those engines in a Formula and at 1800RPM should be less than 25GPH- that amount of GPH 25-26 should be at 2000-2100 RPM- which is a good med-cruise rpm.

If we ever go back to an Express the 44' Trojan 440 Express is very high on the list especially if I can find one with the 635HP Cummins QSM11’s

 

[JKosinski]

Cored hulls concern me. Some sureyors say if the core is dry it may never get wet, some say run don't walk away. It seems that many surveyed cored hulls have some kind of moisture issue. The 4270 we looked at has high moisture reads in the swim platform and the transom. I wish I knew more about it, hopefully I will learn more here.

I know that not every cored hull will have water intrusion. I'm not interested in having the hull surveyed every year or two looking for moisture. I know I can't afford the tens of thousands of dollars it can cost to repair wet coring.

The manufacturers say Coring reduces weight and cost. Isn't the hull where I want weight, to lower the center of gravity for stability?

I might be completely wrong, it's how I feel about it.

The 4270 is a very nice boat. If I could find a reason not to fear the cored hull it would be my second choice after a 440 Express.