1988 32 Mariner vdrives

D

d r young

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Aug 5, 2008
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30527
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Had a v-drive failure today. IT starting out with a noise like dry gears humming and at it gotlouder i realized it didnt sound right and about then the motort started to struggle and by the time i slowed the engine i could some grinding noise and the engine dies. I went down to take a look and there was oil smoke in the bilge. After it cleared i pulled the dipstick on the v-drive and besides being hot as hell it was bone dry. No oil in the bilge either. not sure where it went. Wondering wht kind drive these have in them and how hord is it to pull without removing the motors? look real tight down there. Wished the was a access hole to check fuilds and service them!
 
Question: Are you sure you are talking about the V Drive or the transmission? There's a lot of reasons I ask, way too much to type out. The main reason, though, is that Carver used Walter V Drives in all of their 80's ventage boats and in the 50 years or so I've been around boats I've never seen one fail as you describe. They are darn near indestructable. Plus, V drives have a warning light that flickers when the oil starts getting low and then comes on solid as the oil gets lower.. Unless the bulb is burned out, you get plenty of warning long before it gets "bone dry".

Transmissions, on the other hand are a different matter. What usually happpens is that the Transmission Cooler (heat exchanger) fails and the fluid is carried out with the cooling water. Thus the "bone dry" condition with no oil in the bilge.

Another Question: You said the engine died. Did the V Drive or Tranny completely seize up or will it still turn over?

Bob
 
I can attest, a v-drive can fail. Had to have one replaced two seasons ago along with having the tranny rebuilt. Mine seized up from the heat of everything. From what I was told, the gears were worn and caused the issue. I had all my fluids though. Best suggestion is to get a mechanic out to take a look.

That being said, we had to pull the boat out and put it on blocks and have the engine removed to pull the v-drive and transmission. I was out of commission for two months and out a lot of money. The V-drive on mine was toast but they were able to rebuild the transmission. BorgWarner tranny I believe and Walter V-drives. I have an '86 but I don't have the exact info handy, its at home and I can look when I get home.

My mechanic had to send them both on to a place called Marysville Marine Distributors. I am told they are the best for Crusader engines and related parts especially for our older stuff. They are primarily only in the midwest, so not sure our in OR where to go. You might want to hit Crusdaer's site to see if there is a distributor out near you.

I know I had a thread out here on my experience with this... I have to see if I can search for it.
 
quote:
Originally posted by imspacemancraig

I can attest, a v-drive can fail.
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Wow. I once saw a Walter V Drive that was so hot it completely seized up from running without oil. They guy that owned it put more oil in, broke it free and ran it another several years.

Another one I saw ingested a bolt, from somewhere inside, and kept going.

Mighty tough little critters. But, I guess with anything man made, it can and does fail at times.

Good luck with the repairs.

Bob
 
Were heading out with the mechanic to check it out. I think its the vdrive, its all the wat towards the cabin in the engine room and has a t-handle dip stick on it. The prop shaft is comming out the bottom of it. It was really hot and had no oil. I'll let you know what he says.
 
rb2@gr5trnbenton - when we sent it in, they told me it was beyond repair and had to be replaced. The first place I sent things to, they told me the tranny had to be replaced too. Got a second opinion from Marysville and they said they could rebuild the tranny, but the v-drive had to be replaced. Runs great now!

rb2@gr5tdryoung - your mechanic may be able to get it off without removing the engine, but it will be a very tight fit. On mine, it was the port side that blew and there is a little more wiggle room on that side. But, my mechanic said it would much easier to pull the engine and really diagnose it. Not to mention a lot less man hours to pull the engine than to mess around trying to get it out, let alone put it back in. Also, once they put everything back together, we replaced the impellers and the oil cooler. The shop said for the warranty to be valid, they wanted me to replace the cooler and change the transmission fluid after running it for 10 hours to flush any potential bits out.

Not a cheap or fun thing to think about. Here's hoping it isn't that bad!
 
Checked it out, he agreed it was the v-drive, the output shaft is moving around when in gear and the drive rattles. Looks like the bearings are out.He's going to try to pullit in the boat by lifting the engine assy and moving it forward. It's the port side.
 
I do not know if this will be helpful, but I have been involved with removing and then re-installing a very drive in a Carver Mariner 36 (many times). You can pull it with-out moving anything else. The property shafts bolts, cooling lines, shift lever, throttle cable, oil sensor wires, and mounting bolts all can be removed if you cram yourself right in there. We put a couple of pieces of wood under the v drive to support it as you pull it back from the transmission. Now if you have a couple of strong buddies and a couple of beers, we wrapped a couple of ropes around the water cooling elbows and have them stand on the deck while someone 'wiggles' the v drive out. Good luck.
 
Does anyone kow what brand should be in there? I had walters in my 77 28' mariner but htese dont look like them at all.
rb2@gr5t NautHome I read your posts looks like your pretty experianced in the removal. Iw ould think the 36' has a bit more room but sound like not too tuff a job. Im very mechanicaly inclined so I have no problem tackeling the removal or rebuild myself. I wish my stairs pulled out, would make it real easy!
 
quote:
Originally posted by d r young

Does anyone kow what brand should be in there? I had walters in my 77 28' mariner but htese dont look like them at all.
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You can call Carver Yachts and talk to their archive department. The guy's name is "Rich Brown" as I recall. I've had several questions like that over the past few years and they have been able to answer all of them without fail.

Bob
 
I have Borg Warner 71's or 72C's in my 86 Mariner-don't remember the exact number. It should be stamped on the side of the V drive. The BW's don't have a light at the helm to indicate overheat-only a temp/pressure switch hooked to the warning buzzer. I had to have my starboard V drive seal replaced-they had to pull the engine to accomplish-added about $800 to the job to R&R the engine. If you're real handy and have access to a block and tackle to move the engine aft, you may have enough room to remove the V drive. The hole cockpit floor is screwed in with only about 10-12 screws around the perimeter, plus removing the the foot pads for the ladders to the top deck. It takes about 15-20 mins. to accomplish that and makes working on engines very easy.
 
I should have added that too. Removing the back deck makes things a LOT easier to get at. Mine is the same setup as cmariner's (although we have the same boat/year too).
 
We figured it would be easier with the deck removed. Im hoping for good weather tomorrow to give it a go.

Arent B&W 71c's transmissions not v-drives?
 
quote:
Originally posted by d r young

We figured it would be easier with the deck removed. Im hoping for good weather tomorrow to give it a go.

Arent B&W 71c's transmissions not v-drives?

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Actually, if I remember correctly, 71c is a transmission and V drive in one hard unit, bolted together.

I have B&W trannys coupled to Walter V drives by way of a short flex drive shaft. But the 71c, I think, has the V drive bolted directly to it.

Also, as I recall, it has a fairly steep down angle which made removing one more difficult. It's been several years since I had anything to do with one, but if my memory is correct, we had to pull the engine and take the whole tranny/V drive unit off at the same time.

Bob
 
Looks like mine are 71C's. I unbolted the V-drive today but couldnt get it out due to the prop shaft companion flange wouldn't come apart. Have to bring a bigger hammer down next time! The fluid that came out smelt burnt. I think Im going to have to remove the trans also since they are married and use the same fluid. Not looking good or cheap!
 
I do believe they use the same fluids to cool and I believe you are right to say that they are BW together. If the fluid is burnt smelling, it heated up pretty good and potential damage inside. Fingers crossed there isn't. The place we had rebuld them told me to replace the oil cooler as well because of potential metal pieces that could float around in the fluid. They also told me to run for 10 hours and then replace the fluids again with new stuff.
 
Talked to reputable crusader dealer today and they confirmed my thoughts. The trans needs to come out too and both rebuilt at the same time and the whole engine trans combo needs to come out together. If I prep it to come out, all they do is lift the engine/trans/vdrive assy, rebuild and set back in, i do all the hook ups, they estimate 1800-2500 to do the job. About what I expected to pay. But they are booked out untill May 24th(my birthday!) and wont have it done for atleast a week after that. Damn! It is the 71C series trans/vdrive compact unit.
 
As a point a reference for you, I had to replace the V-drive part and had the transmission rebuilt. I do not have the wherewith all to pull an engine, so I had my mechanic do it. Along with replacing the oil cooler and fluids (twice), labor, and parts, I was at about $8k all said and done. For your sake, I hope all they have to do it a rebuild and not replace.

Seeing as you are having everything pulled, you may want to have someone check your prop shaft and make sure it is straight and OK. Also, if the engine is completely pulled out, great time to clean the engine compartment (I know I took advantage).
 
yea looks like I will be doing some cleaning for sure! I also noticed my rudder packing seems to be leaking a bit so I'll be able to get in there easy and get it adjusted. I found another reputable marina today that will be able to get me in next Thursday to pull the engine and trans in a unit. They dont rebuild but recommended a place that my buddy also recommended as "THE" place to get them done and it's close by. So next Thursday at 8AM I get it to them prepped to pull.
 
The good thing for you, you are having done early in the season and will hopefully still have plenty of time to get out this season and make sure all is well. When mine happened, it was late July and took almost two months to get everything back together (due a bunch of outside issues). So I had a month to work it in and make sure all was well. That was two seasons ago, so I had all last season to really know, and she is working well now.

Fingers and toes crossed for you! Gut wrenching waiting to find out the verdict, getting repaired, back together, and that first run after (insert sweating bullets).
 
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