All about Outboards ??. Educate me.

Chesagansett

Chesagansett

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The last time I owned a boat with outboard power, it was the kind where I had to pour the 2-stroke oil into the gas tank. 1 pint per 6 gallons or a 48:1 ratio. I realize that outboards have come a LONG way since then, but I have not followed the technology advances very closely, as I have been very happy with my I/O (sterndrive) boat up in these fresh to brackish waters. (and he occasional full salt use.)

Anyway, the admiral and I are looking at the possibility of getting an outboard powered boat, as it would likely be better for the saltier waters of FL, where we do a bit of boating in the winter.

What are the pros and cons of the various outboard technologies these days? On the more fishing oriented websites, it seems like a Ford vs. Chevy vs Dodge type of pi$$ing match between the E-Tech vs. Verado vs. Yamaha guys, but I figure you guys can give a more objective view here on BE ATC.

What's the scoop? I'm all ears.

Much thanks!!
 
Would you like that answer in 25 words or less?

George
 
The two biggest selling points for stern drives over O/B's were: 1) noise, and 2) Hp. O/B manufacturers took the challenge seriously.

I can tell you that my buddie's Boston Whaler with twin Yamaha's Ocean Series O/B's is quieter than the stern drives on my Cruisers 3372... And, you can now get O/B engines in the 250+ Hp range.

Dos centavos.
 
Over the winter, I bought a Lehr propane powered outboard for my dinghy. I think it's a great idea: no mixing gas and oil, no gas tank to store on the boat when the dinghy is on the davit, and it runs off grill gas bottles.
 
I was also a stern drive fan back in the days were outboards were smoky and noisy,

No more... They have come a long way in 10 or 15 years and have taken over the market for gas powered boats.

As to brand, it's pretty simple. Look at was is hanging on the transom of work boats, launches, pump out boats, yacht tenders, etc.. In other words any application are reliability is critical, you will see a Yamaha or the occasional Suzuki. I think it says it all. Couple of days ago we were at a popular spot here in the Exumas with probably 20 tenders line up on the beach (tenders not dinghies), all but two were yamahas. The other two were one susuki and one Merc.

Personally I believe that if it wasn't for Brunswick owning Merc and imposing them on their brands like whaler, Merc wouldn't have been out of business long time ago.

We have a 12 year old 50 Yam 4 stroke on charmer's tender that is smooth and quiet. In the last 7 years I ve had to clean the carbs once, replace the impeller once and recently replaced th tilt motor and solenoid, not bad. Last Merc I ve used was a 40hp 4 stroke that was a year newer and it always sounded like it was about to crap out any second, smoked more too.
 
As you said, you will find differing opinions on all of the manufacturers. If you do not do your own maintenance/repair, then I would look at the dealer network as my primary decision point. Otherwise, go for the best deal - they are all pretty equal.
 
I'm ready to change the boating class slides to break classes of boat power into Inboard, I/O and Yamaha. Seriously, ubiquitous around here. The Jap brands seem to be the most popular, and Yammie leads by a wide margin here. They also have many service outlets.

The four-stroke outboards from the Jap brands are very complex, yet less so than MerC Verado which is has smaller displacement and a supercharger. USCG runs a lot of Hondas and has Verado on one of their pursuit boat classes. I don't know how well they've held up in CG use. Verado is also "fly by wire" for throttle/shift and steering.

MerC Optimax is a powerful two-stroke that's also complex, incorporating an air "blower" (not quite a supercharger) and expensive specialized injectors for both air and fuel.

Sheriff's marine unit here uses E-Tech and they have that two-cycle speed and acceleration. VERY sophisticated engine management on those things and they've not unexpectedly blown a few.

I'd be looking for Honda, Suzuki or Yamaha (in alphabetical order to avoid seeming prejudiced) four-strokes. A big factor in choosing among the three should be dealer/service/parts support in your specific boating area. My guess is Yamaha will be the winner.
 
The last time I was stopped for a routine check, the USCG was running Hondas if that says anything.

The three things I would look for are total cost of ownership, certified mechanic availibility and NMEA 2000 compliant.
 
Our Honda 130 4 stroke was so quiet you'd forget it was running and try to start it again!
 
Thanks all! From the reviews I've read, the Verado users love the "fly-by--wire" controls, and the Verado 300 is about 150 pounds lighter than the Yamaha 300. On the other hand, as some have indicated, the Yamaha has more displacement, whereas Verado depends more upon the supercharger. The old saying is "There is no replacement for displacement". Given that, does anyone have any actual numbers ... sort of like Consumer Reports, that Brand A is much more reliable than Brand B? Most of what is out there is pretty anecdotal. As for USCG using Hondas, I'm not sure how much that says. It likely comes down to Government bids, and Honda might have been the low bidder for the USCG.

Anyway, we'll probably end up with whatever comes with the boat, as we don't plan to purchase new outboards. But, it's good to have the knowledge, as it can be used for a "tie-breaker" decision.

There are 3 main negative issues I see for us in looking at outboard powered boats:

1. They seem to be mostly made for fishing. We're not against fishing, but the primary use will be pleasure cruising, etc.

2. Most have very little shade, and we're not really thrilled about cooking in the sun all day, and facing future skin cancer.

3. Many have less seating than cruisers. Again, most seem tailored for fishing.

oh, and a forth item

4. Most have very small cabins compared to a similar sized cruiser. Again, the fishing thing.

One of the least "fishy" of the outboard models we found was this:

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2004-Donzi-38-ZSF-2014-GENERATOR-with-optional-Trailer!-102340078

It seems about 1/2 to 2/3 for cruising and 1/3 to 1/2 set up for fishing. It has a decent sized cabin , and a decent amount of shade and seating. For better or worse, it has Mercs. :( Any other recommendations are welcome!

Sea Ray came out with an outboard 37-foot cruiser a couple years ago, but we don't want to spend 300K for a new-ish 37 footer.

Again, much thanks!
 
If you're not sure about outboards why buy a boat with 3 of them? :)
 
quote:
Originally posted by mdoherty

If you're not sure about outboards why buy a boat with 3 of them? :)

Click to expand...


... And that's why I'm asking questions.

As for 3 outboards, that boat weighs 15,000 pounds. 750 hp does not seem out of line. Plenty of express cruisers in that weight range have twin 496 cu in (8.1 litre) I/Os which can be 375-425 hp each, for a total of 750 to 850 hp. Redundancy is never a bad thing, either. I read somewhere that if you lose an outboard on a triple set-up, you can still get on plane and not have to idle back. Is that true?

We'd also like to be able to make the offshore run from Southwest, FL / Marco Island to Key West, which is almost 100 miles of open water before landfall. Southeast FL to Bimini, Bahamas is on our list, too.

Much thanks!
 
Are we talking big outboards or little outboards? My current boat has a Yamaha F40BTLR (40hp 4 stroke) that has been exceptionally reliable. Only con I can think of is you really need to keep your fuel clean - it has tiny little fuel passages that foul very easily if you don't. Up side of that is it's insanely fuel efficient. My little inflatable that I really wish I didn't sell (favorite boat I've ever owned - small boat small problems. Just big enough for me and my dog and dive gear. Loved laying back and puttering around. Kicking myself for thinking I'd never use it again and selling it) had a little Honda. For the 15hp and under market, hard to beat.

As far as those bigger Hondas? I've blown up quite a few of those. Granted, they're on work boats, and they DO get worked, but Yamaha seems to be the reliability player in bigger outboards. Merc is a joke, OMC owns the "I will only buy a 'Merican sounding name outboard, don't care 'bout anything else" market.

Summary: if you can pick it up and move it yourself - Honda. If you need a hoist or another man or two to lift it and move it, Yamaha.

(Side note on Yamaha - those multifunction gauges are EXPENSIVE! Mine somehow got condensation in it. Going to attempt a desi pack and vacuum container)
 
For me mercs are a deal breaker. Period.

Some of thae boats have decent size cabin, at least for a couple of nights but much now, they are about being outside. Many havr fairly large tops to give you enough shade
 
Sad what happened to Mercs. Back in my younger years when speed mattered, nothing beat a 2.4 Bridgeport. Ran all day at 6500 rpms. I am still partial to 2 strokes. Nothing says summer to me than 2 stroke exhaust on the water. Torque better too. I run an old omc v4 on my skiff and its bullet proof. Lil jealous of the silent yamahas at the club but wait til this one dies. If it ever does.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Chesagansett

quote:
Originally posted by mdoherty

If you're not sure about outboards why buy a boat with 3 of them? :)

Click to expand...


... And that's why I'm asking questions.

As for 3 outboards, that boat weighs 15,000 pounds. 750 hp does not seem out of line. Plenty of express cruisers in that weight range have twin 496 cu in (8.1 litre) I/Os which can be 375-425 hp each, for a total of 750 to 850 hp. Redundancy is never a bad thing, either. I read somewhere that if you lose an outboard on a triple set-up, you can still get on plane and not have to idle back. Is that true?

We'd also like to be able to make the offshore run from Southwest, FL / Marco Island to Key West, which is almost 100 miles of open water before landfall. Southeast FL to Bimini, Bahamas is on our list, too.

Much thanks!

Click to expand...


It was a joke!
 
<<..."Are we talking big outboards or little outboards?"...>>

November Charlie - As this will be our primary boat ... not a tender, dink, etc., we are talking bigger size outboards. Unfortunately, I am seeing a lot of brands rigged with Merc Verados and Merc Optimax. Many are not Brunswick boats, but maybe many other non-Brunswick companies have some agreement with Merc? I'm seeing a lot of Yamaha rigs, too. ... Relatively few big Honda rigs out there.

After reading several reviews, as far as Merc goes, the Merc Verado owners seem happier than the Merc Optimax owners. Merc Optimax is 2-stroke. Verado is 4-stroke.

From most of the reviews I've read, the bigger difference in satisfaction seems to be more related to whether the outboard is 4-stroke versus 2-stroke, rather than brand name. The 4-stroke people seem quite a bit happier, overall. As all the Hondas and Yamahas (except very old ones) are 4-stroke, those brands seem to get better ratings, overall. With Merc, they still sell many 2-strokes (with lower satisfaction), so it brings the brand satisfaction average down. ... But, their 4-stroke Verado owners seem pretty happy. If a boat comes with Merc Verado (4-stroke), that seems ... at least from the owner reviews, that that is not a too bad of a choice (as opposed to the Merc 2-strokers). Have any of you had the Verados (4-stroke), and what has been your luck with them?

I'm pretty sure I want to avoid 2-strokers, as they get worse reviews, and the many times I've been stuck behind a 2-stroker in the no wake zone, I end up breathing through my shirt to avoid the nasty 2-stroke smell. That eliminates the 2-stroke Merc Optimax, which is on the boat I linked earlier from boattrader. Okay ... Scratch that boat off the list!

Much thanks, all!
 
<<..."It was a joke!"...>>

Thanks, Mike. My brain is in slow motion today. ... Long day.
 
My issue with 2 strokes isn't the smell, it's the noise. I'd rather be running two strokes - MUCH easier to work on and tune just right - but I'm old enough now that my occupational hearing loss concerns me, so I try to preserve what hearing I have left. Those 4 strokes are a world apart from the old (or even new, if they're still making them) Merc 2 strokes. Blew up a few of those, too (one at the most inopportune time, but that's another story for another time. Never heard that same noise, but it was an unmistakeable death knell), but I always worked those outboards hard enough I couldn't honestly say which ones held up better. They all had a death sentence from the get go.
 
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