Boys missing, boat found...

quote:
Originally posted by GeeBee

Just think how the presence of a PLB would have changed the entire story. Sad.

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I'm VERY sure of how it would have changed the entire story - and not based on a guess nor assumption.
 
It all doesn't matter much about PLBs and such. The kids disobeyed and went out side when they were forbidden.

A couple of goofey kids on a yahoo.

Oh well, very sad.
 
You're right and that Aux is wrong.

Part A Rule 1 (g) "The operator of each self-propelled vessel 12 meters or more in length shall carry, on board and maintain for ready reference, a copy of these Rules."

Unless that the boat IS Aux, then everybody.

We promote DSC radio registration, connection to GPS, and EPIRB/PLB, in boating class.
 
I've become very happy with my spot. Not quite as bullet proof as an Epirb, but cheap enough for everyone to own and I'm convinced that the incentive to use during non emergency services makes it more likely to be present instead of a device that gets complacently forgotten about and ignored.

Incidentally, years ago I came down to the salon of my fil boat and found my young nephew playing with the old epirb. Had it out and was trying to figure out what it was and how to turn it on. Luckily my nephew was as dumb as my bil, but sure made my heart skip a beat. The batteries were long ago corroded so it never came on. Sil was happily watching him play, encouraging the little monster. When I told them it was an emergency locator beacon and the coast guard might well be trying to find us, the reaction was that they had hardly touched it and they could just put it back and not tell anybody. Seems there is a dark side to everything.
 
quote:
Originally posted by PascalG

This is why I get so pissed off when I see the USCG auxiliary inspection form which doesn't even reqjire a single bilge pump!!

Then for when the crap really hits the fan, yes: VHF, epirb etc... But if you can prevent the damn thing from flipping your chances of surviving are much higher.

And of course education... Both the USCG Aux vessel check and th state requirement education are a joke. Look at th test and the question...almost nothing on preventing such accident, it is all about regulations where to put the reg sticker, how many drinks can you have, etc.

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Pascal, I can appreciate your frustration, but have to take exception. As an Aux instructor, I can tell you that every class I've ever taught, attended, critiqued or otherwise have been involved with has pointed out that safety is paramount - from basic rules of the road, maintaining a lookout, to VHF-DSC's. The Aux course attempts to put 5 lbs of stuff in a 4 lb bag. It's a CLASSROOM introductory class - not an on-board indoctrination.

I join you in frustration as NYS has authorized on-line classes to meet their 'mandatory licensing' requirement . . . now THAT'S a joke.

Further, as for Aux vessel exams, there is a block for dewatering devices & backup - right side of form, item 2. Yes, the Aux lists it as a 'Discussion Item', as, believe it or not, dewatering devices are not required by federal (or most states, I cannot speak for all states) Law - just like a VHF, NOAA weather radio, EPIRB, anchor and rode, charts (or the knowledge to actually USE a chart), GPS, or Float Plan are also not required by federal law.

Offshore operations are far different than puttering around a lagoon or the ICW - unfortunately, these two boys apparently weren't ready for the difference. . .I'm not sure ANY boating 'class' could have taught, or convinced them, of that.
 
A boat, a car, a plane, a bottle of alcohol, a gun, a lighter, matches, and I can go on and on.
All these come with a responsibility to understand the risks, the rewards and the hazards.

In my view the blame on this one lies with the parents. They let these boys do things and gave the a long leash to do it that most parents would never do. In addition, it doesn't sound like these are poor people so why would they not throw some basic safety equipment into the boat for the boys. These poor kids didn't even have enough money for the fuel!

When i had a jetski, I had a handheld vhf radio, anchor and flares on it, even though it never left the bay!!

I still hold out hope for these kids but this is getting to limit of what a human can survive without water and sleep.

Let this be a lesson to every parent that kids will do what they are not suppose to do and its your job to make sure they are prepared and know the risks!
 
Like everything else, CG Aux and Power Squadron inspections are only as good as the inspector.

Had to explain once that reg numbers do not get put on the hull of my documented vessel and no my 38 Viking did not have a hand pump but had crash pumps. Apparently a bucket suffices for the inspection.
 
The Coast Guard announced this afternoon, they will suspend the search for the boys at sundown Friday.

Although, volunteers in their own planes and boats may continue.

The article said the Coast Guard had told the family last Wednesday they would stop at sundown Friday, if nothing develops, but didn't make it public.
 
A while back, I was exiting my cove when I saw two boys waving their arms for rescue. They had crossed the cove from their dock on a dare, and like most swims it was farther than it looked. Bottom line is boys are going to do stupid things. These two were not supposed to leave the intercoastal and they did. Sad situation, tough lesson but I know looking back on my childhood, there but for the grace of God go I.
 
Gene,

The aux classes maybe more thorough but view people take them

As to the aux inspection and vessel check, being a discussion item is not enough. Bottom line, boaters are given a Safe vessel sticker even though they are missing basic safety equipment like anchor, bilge pump, VHF, etc..

Mike,

Yep... Builders deliver boats with 1 or 2 aquarium pumps (anything less than 2000gph is aquarium grade) with th blessing of USCG, insurance companies, surveyors societies, etc...
 
quote:
Originally posted by mintregila

Like everything else, CG Aux and Power Squadron inspections are only as good as the inspector.

Had to explain once that reg numbers do not get put on the hull of my documented vessel and no my 38 Viking did not have a hand pump but had crash pumps. Apparently a bucket suffices for the inspection.

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There is an outside chance there was some confusion or miscommunication regarding the bucket. One of the requirements for certain vessels is "some means of removing oily waste" - for which a bucket usually suffices.
 
Was boarded by the Coast guard (not aux) for a safety inspection last week, received a no violation sheet. They didn`t look at pumps.
 
quote:
Originally posted by November Charlie

quote:
Originally posted by mintregila

Like everything else, CG Aux and Power Squadron inspections are only as good as the inspector.

Had to explain once that reg numbers do not get put on the hull of my documented vessel and no my 38 Viking did not have a hand pump but had crash pumps. Apparently a bucket suffices for the inspection.

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There is an outside chance there was some confusion or miscommunication regarding the bucket. One of the requirements for certain vessels is "some means of removing oily waste" - for which a bucket usually suffices.

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Mike,
That's not a miscommunication. The form calls for a means of dewatering. A bucket meets the definition. You can dewater a vessel that is no longer taking on water with a bucket. Depending on the size of the vessel it may take a hell of a lot of time, but it'll work. Now if you're in a canoe or kayak its far more practical!
 
Decades ago, I was stopped and the 16 ft alum flatboat I was in was inspected.

When asked about the "dewatering device", I realized I hadn't brought a bucket aboard.

So, I dumped out my soft drink and displayed the empty ( giant size! ) cup. It met the definition of dewatering device and I passed inspection.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Radioactive

Decades ago, I was stopped and the 16 ft alum flatboat I was in was inspected.

When asked about the "dewatering device", I realized I hadn't brought a bucket aboard.

So, I dumped out my soft drink and displayed the empty ( giant size! ) cup. It met the definition of dewatering device and I passed inspection.

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Bill - there may be a State requirement for a dewatering device, but there is no federal requirement for one (e.g., NYS requires all power driven vessels [sans PWC's] to carry an anchor and adequate rode, Fed Law does not an anchor.)

Pascal, we Aux's always take into account the caliber of the students in a basic boating safety class . . . and remind ourselves that, at least they had enough knowledge to take a class an learn what they don't know! Remember, folks need to start somewhere.

In fact, one of the questions on the final exam for a basic boating safety class refers to the fact that just having the 'required' equipment IS NOT enough to ensure a safe and comfortable boating.
 
So I see this thread turned to safety and the boys are not discussed.
I haven't really seen the news, are they considering these kids gone at this point?

I mean unless they were kidnapped or are on a deserted island, there is no way these kids are living, correct?

Very sad and the poor parents, but they should of done more to protect their dumb kids because no matter how smart you think you or your kids are, we all do dumb sh*t!!!
 
I'm afraid short of a miracle, the boy's are gone. It's been over a week, I can't imagine surviving that long in the water. I would think the cooler or life jackets would turn up at some point. Not sure what the parents could have done - at 14 (younger really) I was running a boat alone, granted on a lake not the ocean. Like these kids I had boundaries which I ultimately broke. If the rule was don't leave the inlet, then putting things like an EPIRB on the boat would just encourage them doing just that. I never heard about any other equipment (VHF etc) but would assume they had at least a radio. My guess is when things went bad, it happened quickly - none of us were there, so it's hard to speculate.

This one breaks my heart, two boys that love the water, a boat, the FL summer and fishing, what could be better. It was just a matter of time before they left the boundaries. If that had been me at 14, I can't say I wouldn't have done the same thing. Like Greg said, some of the things I did, I'm still here by the grace of God.
 
Well, the fact of the matter is, the boys may not have left the inlet voluntarily. Tidal current just rips through Jupiter inlet and if they had en engine failure on a mid falling tide there was nothing they could do about it. The current will take you out and very fast.

Now, couple that with a severe thunderstorm that popped up off shore just after they were last seen. Wind with a easterly element on a mid falling tide in Jupiter inlet is guaranteed to be very snotty. Personally, I have seen 8'-10' swells in less conditions than that. When boating in that area I always avoided Jupiter Inlet like a bad disease.

As for safety equipment, I don't care if they usually boated in a mountain stream. There is no excuse for not having at least basic safety equipment. On the water, unexpected stuff happens and you need to be able to summons help and survive until help arrives. IMHO, a VHF radio and a PLB is the very least you should have.

When I worked for Sea Tow, probably, 98% of the boats I had to rescue were in protected waters, ICW, St. Johns River, etc. Some were sinking, some were on fire and some just ran out of gas or were soft grounded. But the bottom line is, with out a means to summons help you're pretty much screwed.

The loss of these two young men is incredibly tragic. We all need to take a look at where and how we boat and make sure to make every preparation to keep such a thing from ever happening to one of us or one of our family.

Bob
 
" a scared man with a bucket" has traditionally been the best pump.
 
They supposedly texted friends to say they were headed to the bahamas to fish.
So they voluntarily left the inlet if that is true.

I guess it is still possible they dumped the boat, staged this whole thing and ran away from home, but I doubt it!
 
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