Buying a Carver

Georgian Bay Cruiser

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Hi all, I am hoping that I can take advantage of all your 'Carver Expertise'. We are currently looking at a 1986 Carver Mariner that apperars to have been very well cared for. It is equipped with the 220 crusaders. We are having the boat surveyed, but I wanted to ask you if there are common areas in these boats that I should pay particlar attention too. I'm sure the surveyor will do a good job, but I'm also sure there is a vast wealth of experience here, and I'd appreciate any insights.
Thank you.
Terry
 
If you had not planned to do so, make sure you are there for the survey. Ask a couple hundred questions and if you see anything you don't understand or have questions about, stop the guy and discuss it.
 
Make sure your surveyor is certified, see the surveyor forum and Al Priscos website. The Survey is only as good as the surveyor, you should go to that forum and read the problems people have had with their surveyor.

Walter
 
The good thing is that a Mariner of that vintage is regarded as being an excellent boat and very many fine examples of them exist today. Here is a link to an old Boat/US review of the model, dating from May 2003:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQK/is_3_8/ai_101290482

The only difference between then and now is that a well-kept example will be cheaper to purchase. Crusader 220s (5.0L Chevys) are darn near indestructible and parts are easy to find...

One advice from my experience - be ready to replace the head, holding tank, and possibly the fresh water pump and shower pump...
 
Good advice on the surveyor....he's SAMS accredited and has been around for a while. Thanks for the info about the head /holding tank Pete. I will pay extra attention in that area. I wouldnt even have thought to try the shower pump...Thanks
 
I wouldn't be satisfied with SAMS accreditation. My last surveyor was certified, but obviously should not have been. He did catch something I would have missed, but missed much more than I think is reasonable. Please be sure and get some references and find out how much has slipped by your surveyor in the past. No one can find everything, but I had a few thousand dollars worth of repairs that he should have picked up on IMHO.

On the other hand, the surveyor I had in LA provided me with a great education just by watching and asking questions. I'm not trying to dis anybody and I don't want to say more about my bad experience, but it is all on you to find the right surveyor and then be there to learn from him or her when the survey is conducted.

Out of curiosity, what size Mariner are you buying?
 
Hi Tom, thanks for the input. I have spoken with one other customer of this surveyor who found him quite thorough. I know its not much of a statistical evaluation, but it was an independent opinion that wasn't directed by the surveyor. I can't believe I forgt to mention which Mariner it was.....it's the 28'. Thank you for pointing that out. If anyone has experince with that model, I'd appreciate any other feedback.
Terry
 
I also advise getting an engine compression check on both engines and the genset. I bought a boat years ago that only had 280 on the engines that seemed to run great. One cylider had a bad valve. Crusader actually fixed it for the prior owner even though it was out of warranty.

The cost of the comprssion check is money well spent in my opinion.
 
Well, we did the survey yesterday. For the first 2 hours, the surveyor couldnt believe his eyes. He'd never seen a 1986 boat so well maintained and cared for as the 28 Mariner we were buying. The only faults he'd uncovered was a bulb out in the anchor light, and the sea strainers probably needed cleaning. the boat looked like new.....but looks can be deceiving. When he got down in the bilge, which was also spotless, and put his moisture meter on the stringers, it read 100% saturation. He was so surprised, he went and got a second meter. Same thing. Bottom line, every stringer and cross member from the transom to the galley was soaked......talk about dissapointing. To hire someone to repair it would cost more than the value of the boat, and the surveyor pointed out it would be impossible to insure given what his report would reflect.....so sadly we had to walk away......so the search for our next boat continues!
 
"so sadly we had to walk away" Another way too look at this: I am so happy I did not buy this boat :)

Good Find.......

Best of luck on the next one....

Walter
 
Walter, youre quite right, I'm very glad we didnt buy this 'huge problem'.....but we were dissapointed too. It certianly demonstates why hiring a good surveyor is money well spent.
Terry
 
Wow!! Thanks for sharing that info, Terry. I've never heard of an '86 2897 with this much trouble down there. It is a common occurrence on the older 2895 and 2896 models because of the balsa cored hull and barely-glassed-in stringer system. But the newer model is much more soundly constructed. Did the surveyor have any guess as to why this happened??? Was the boat ever sunk or run aground or some other calamity? Did the prior owner do a lot of additions down in the bilge area??? I know that many a 2896 has been ruined by enterprising owners screwing bilge pumps and the like into the hull bottoms and not using any sealant or just using silicone...

Oh, also, was the boat in the water at the time? With so much saturation down there, would there have been any visible signs on the hull bottom such as sagging areas or strange crack patterns in the gelcoat (Dave Pascoe's celebrated 370 comes to mind here)??? How about the stringers themselves - were they noticeably damaged in any way???

FYI - if you're ever doing any alterations down there, a liberal dose of BoatLife's LifeCALK is the stuff to use, IMHO...
 
To bad it didn"t work out but if you"ve got your heart set on a Carver my friend has a 3207 Aft Cabin to sell Meticulously maintained .....he"s buying a larger one.
Drop me a line if you want the info.
 
Pete, thanks for the feedback. I'll try to answer your questions. There was no visible signs that there was a problem, other than the bolts and plates that hold the engine mounts to the stringers were badly rusted (this boat had spent 13 years in salt water, and the last 8 in fresh). The owner had replaced the bolts and painted the plates for the V-drives. He said he just didnt like the rusty look, but in hindsight, my guess is if he had those old bolts out he may have had some idea something wasnt right. The boat was in the water at the time. We had just completed that part of the survey which could be done in the water and were preparing to haul it for a bottom inspection when this issue was found. As far as a previous sinking, or 'calamity' as you so eloquently put it, I was not made aware of any, and there wasnt any sign of a problem, other than a red stain about 4 inches up in the far forward storage area under the v-berth. When asked about it he said it was from the anchor locker leaking when waves would come in the locker drain during rough water, and the stain was there when he bought the boat in 99. At the time the surveyor thought that was plausible, but now I have my doubts.
The surveyor had seen simlar catastrophic stringer problems in other boats, not carvers, and felt to have a yard do the repairs would cost about 25K. When you consider the boat was being sold for 26K, (it was listed for 29), the presnt owner must be feeling sick. Interestingly, within 6 hrs of us walking away, the broker had the boat's price changed on his web site.....now 24K....go figure.
 
Yep, I believe it...

I had once looked at a 33 Voyager in MA and flat out told the broker, a nice fellow, that if he was at all worried about the consequences of selling someone a dangerous boat he should call the owner up and tell him he wouldn't represent him. IMHO the boat was run in salt water, in big, big waves, and the hull and stringers just flexed themselves to pieces. That boat was going to fall apart someday...

In your case, I'll bet the same thing happened - the "7" series Carvers are much sturdier than the "6" series they replace, and the 28 footers are more solid than the 32s in any case (IMHO) , but it still is relevant that if you run these boats too hard in rough open seas they will eventually have big problems. I was in six foot waves once in my old 2895 and my brother came up to the flybridge, his face ashen, to tell me that the hull was literally bowing in and out up by the V berth each time we hit a wave. Then the cabinet that makes up the starboard side of the head compartment fell off, and then the starboard side of the bridge fell off (remember old "5" series boats had plywood superstructures) - we turned around and headed back pronto...

I wonder if I can get Al Prisco from the surveyor forum to weigh in on this one. I'll check with him since he may have some good advice for future situations...
 
And some poor shmuck will buy that great looking boat without having a survey done........buyer beware!
 
A survey is worth its weight in gold! Almost bought an older Chris-Craft (vintage 1974 wood construction) where the chines and stringers had been West System repaired. Things look good until he went a bit further on the chines and found that the probe went almost through the chine. Needless to say, he told me that had I taken it out on Lake Michigan, a good wave would crush in the side of the boat and it would be the newest reef in Lake Michigan. Again...the appearance was bristol. Never judge a book by its cover?? Cost me $500 to save thousands.
 
Pete, Looks like there was a good surveyor on the job. Ive seen this type problem from boats that hold a lot of moisture in the bilge area. If there are any weep holes in the stringers, they would just suck up moisture. If air gets to the area, this would cause rot to begin. Depending on the amount of glass that incapsulate's the stringer, this could in many cases be a major problem to deal with. The thing to do is contact Carvers R&D department and ask for there views on this problem. I have seen some that where wet and still where structural.
 
Al, you and some of the other contributors here are quite right. There was a good surveyor on the job....and he saved my bacon. I just hope the owner and broker pass his findings onto any potential purchasers in the future. The broker was there at the time of the stringer moisture measurements and has full disclosure.
 
I had a 22 footer I bought new it was a Corona, made by Seahart Manufacturing. Long story short, water got down in the bilge,(foam filled and the stringers were not encapsulated. I was going to replace the floor (soft spots) and when the floor was pulled up I found the main stringer to be toast. It looked like termites ate through it.

I was told to just fix the floor and sell it, I pulled the motor and outdrive, and junked the boat. I still owed about 5k on the boat, at a time in my life that 5k was a sh-t load of money.

If I sold this boat to someone and they got killed, I could not live with that.
PS. the boat was only 3 or 4 years old, I thought I would be able to get the manufacture to pony up, but when I called them I found out they were out of business, wonder why :)

Sorry for the hijack, but you should be aware that some people will try to pass a huge problem like this to another person.

Walter
 
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