Cuba- Could it open up for boaters soon?

In general. I agree with Pascal
The claim that the sanctions on Cuba did not work are not accurate. Cuba was a beach head for Russia to bring Communism to the Americas and ultimately to locate Russian missiles close to the US, which thankfully President Kennedy dealt with. Even without the missiles, Cuba with the support or Russia tried to spread Communism to much of the Americas and actually sent troops to many countries to bring that to reality. Cuban troops were the surrogate for Russia around the world.
The US sanctions kept that goal in check.
Cuba has thousands of political prisoners in jail that will not be released as part of the agreement. Also they recently sold weapons to North Korea.

Now that the Cuba regime was about to collapse, since Russia and Venezuela can no longer afford to prop it up, the Administration has decided to save the dictator and allow the harsh regime to stay in power. Does anyone seriously think the lot of the populace will improve while Castro, a brutal dictator, is in power?
Note below the Washington Post article which is hardly an opponent of the Administration:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...5a15d4-860c-11e4-9534-f79a23c40e6c_story.html

Obama gives the Castro regime in Cuba an undeserved bailout

"IN RECENT months, the outlook for the Castro regime in Cuba was growing steadily darker. The modest reforms it adopted in recent years to improve abysmal economic conditions had stalled, due to the regime’s refusal to allow Cubans greater freedoms. Worse, the accelerating economic collapse of Venezuela meant that the huge subsidies that have kept the Castros afloat for the past decade were in peril. A growing number of Cubans were demanding basic human rights, such as freedom of speech and assembly."

"On Wednesday, the Castros suddenly obtained a comprehensive bailout — from the Obama administration. President Obama granted the regime everything on its wish list that was within his power to grant; a full lifting of the trade embargo requires congressional action. Full diplomatic relations will be established, Cuba’s place on the list of terrorism sponsors reviewed and restrictions lifted on U.S. investment and most travel to Cuba. That liberalization will provide Havana with a fresh source of desperately needed hard currency and eliminate U.S. leverage for political reforms."

Read the entire Washington Post article for more information.
 
Mario, As stated above I understand your compassion and I have the utmost respect for your feelings, but for you to repeatedly state that the American voter, the American taxpayer does not have "any skin in the game" seems a little disingenuous, and offensive.

As a voter and citizen, who has supported the actions of the exiles for generations, as someone who has footed the bill for the CG rescues and searches over several generations, someone who's tax dollars have gone to support the influx of Mariel boat people upon our welfare, hospitals and school systems, I feel that we indeed do have "skin in the game" and our opinions and wishes should carry at least equal value to those of others.
 
I respectfully disagree. The majority of the cubans that arrived in the way you describe are hardened Americans now. That generation, going back to the original exiles have demonstrated to be major contributers to the great American system financially through business and politically (mostly conservative). We have also paid into all that you describe. Their is no difference between you and me as Americans but simply the Cuban understands the ultimate cost another bad policy brings. Clearly we have different approaches as to how to best service a bad policy. There will be a product produced out of this but the product benefits the Cuban government. What I do hear from Cuba is that Obama is a castro sympathizer! This is directly from inside Cuba today! How does that measure up?

You know what 50 years of leftist, communist propaganda has taught the cubans? It has taught them to believe when a tyrant says to "fundamentally transform" something, you believe him, and prepare for the worst...

Thank you for the good debate!
 
MarioG,
I think you raise an excellent point regarding the contributions the original exiles who made their way to the USA.
Working for a major corporation, I made friends with many educated Cuban engineering professionals who were hired and were excellent Engineers and patriotic US citizens. They were anti Castro.

They worked hard, did very well, and were promoted to responsible positions in the corporation. We need this type of Immigrant that is happy to live in our country, adopt our values, follow our laws, and contribute to our society.

I doubt they are happy with the Administration's decision.
 
The success or failure of the embargo can certainly be debated but at this point, if the Castro Government is ready to implode and there isn't a strong American economic presence, who will fill the Vacuum? If we don't get our foot in the door now we may have to deal with the chaos and violent consequences of a power struggle later. Ultimately whatever your feelings are about the past, for better or worse, once property ownership laws and Cuban government regulations are more well defined (which won't happen soon and as painful as it may be to those that actually have skin in the game) the competition for corporations to rush in and get a foothold will be the new story. Just tonight it was reported that American airlines, Hilton and Marriott Hotels have made gestures towards developing a Cuban presence.
 
American Airlines has been regularly flying into Cuba for years. The last few times I have been at Holguin Airport there have been one and sometimes two AA jets at the ramp.
 
More than 500,000 Americans visit Cuba legally every year as of 2013 and American cigarettes and Coke are sold everywhere.
 
Mario says:

"The majority of the cubans that arrived in the way you describe are hardened Americans now. That generation, going back to the original exiles have demonstrated to be major contributers to the great American system financially through business and politically (mostly conservative). We have also paid into all that you describe. Their is no difference between you and me as Americans . . . "

You and I are in complete agreement. There is no difference between you and I. Therefore; for you to imply that my voice should not count, is somewhat offensive.

We should agree to disagree. My point has been made clear. ATC was not intended for these types of discussions. I'm done.
 
adru,
You raise and interesting point about COKE and other US products sold in Cuba.
Are they being produced in Cuba in violation of international law or imported from Mexico and sold on the black market? The US company is probably not involved and makes no profit on these products.
Coke was very popular before Castro and the know how to make the product was local in the plants. Did Castro shut down these plants?

Hope such international violations get addressed along with extradition of the convicted N.J. cop killer currently living there and protected by the regime as an affront to the family and police.
Think the thief of US technology and trademark violations will end or be increased as the result of the agreement?
Will more US jobs be exported to Cuba to take advantage of the cheap labor?

Lots of details apparently not worked out or explained in the decision to know if it is good for the USA. I doubt it.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...panies-seen-benefiting-from-opening-cuba.html
 
If you believe at least some percentage of the money you spend to buy a Coke in Havana doesn't end up in Atlanta one way or another, you are being very naive. And the last can of Coke I saw there said bottled in Spain on it as I recall.

It's also hard to take seriously the calls by many Cubans to continue the embargo and to continue to stop Americans from traveling to Cuba because any money spent there only helps keep Casto in power, when billions of dollars and supplies have been and are still being sent there by many of those very same Cubans.

http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=94444

The issue of Cuban/American relations in general and the embargo is a very tangled web and has many layers to it as well.
 
Try to remember that when you set foot (by boat) on Cuban soil you are under the control of a brutal dictatorship, the Castro brothers. For any reason they could do an Alan Gross on you.

Also do not forget they have under their wings one Joanne Chesimard, a Philadelphia cop killer whom they won't deport to the USA. Although it might be better that Castro fed her for 30 years than the American taxpayers.

Just cause Zero says to move on does not create sailing Valhalla there. The Castros protect the trash and kill the good guys.
 
How many tourists from other countries have been busted by Cuba?
And-
Talk to me about crime against tourists in Nassau Bahamas and elsewhere in the Caribbean.
 
quote:
Originally posted by boatbum

How many tourists from other countries have been busted by Cuba?
And-
Talk to me about crime against tourists in Nassau Bahamas and elsewhere in the Caribbean.

Click to expand...

+1
We vacation in Mexico regularly and while there are plenty of horror stories to go around a little common sense goes a long ways.
You can find trouble wherever you go but prudence will most often keep you safe.
I think Obama made a good move in starting relations again with Cuba and eventually Cuba will become a major vacation destination for Americans seeking good beaches at affordable prices.
 
And just maybe, politics will turn when the cash starts coming into the country. Look what it has done for Hong Kong. But that place is too far away for our boat.
 
quote:
Originally posted by boatbum

How many tourists from other countries have been busted by Cuba?
And-
Talk to me about crime against tourists in Nassau Bahamas and elsewhere in the Caribbean.

Click to expand...


Some of these countries you mention do not exude personal safety. And I am not taking any chances on Mexico either.

I would not term what happened to Alan Gross in Cuba or Sgt. Tamhoreesi in Mexico as "busted."

I merely point our that the same 2 terrorists run Cuba for over 50 years and the current occupant did nothing to get Gross or Tamhoreesi freed.
 
In Guantanamo City are thousands of doors and in each of those doors there are thousands of....... They hang out the windows with bare naked...... And knock out your brains with low hanging.....

I'd take the ride back up the river, given the chance. And I might even do some tarpon fishing. Cuba Libre.
 
Did we just bail out a brutal, failed Communistic Regime?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/21/w...us-but-affirms-cubas-communist-rule.html?_r=0

"HAVANA — President Raúl Castro declared victory for the Cuban Revolution on Saturday in a wide-ranging speech, thanking President Obama for “a new chapter” while also reaffirming that restored relations with the United States did not mean the end of Communist rule in Cuba."

"In a televised speech before Parliament and a group of favored guests — including Elián González, the center of a tug of war in 2000 between Cuban exiles and Havana, and the three men convicted of spying in the United States who were released as part of the historic agreement announced on Wednesday — Mr. Castro alternated between conciliatory and combative statements directed at the United States."
 
Today, I had the opportunity to speak with someone who is 1st generation American from Cuba. 70 years old. He was born in Havana and moved to the States at the age of 16. Had to learn English here, and went to school. Did very well for himself.

"It's about time we gave up on the embargo".

Seriously it's not working. Get over it, start boating there, and slowly things will come around. You might hate Castro for what he did and still does. But not working with the people directly is not going to help, especially since so many other countries are interacting with Cuba.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Joeshoes

Try to remember that when you set foot (by boat) on Cuban soil you are under the control of a brutal dictatorship, the Castro brothers. For any reason they could do an Alan Gross on you.

Click to expand...


Just like China, Vietnam, Russia, and several other places on the planet. I visited Russia last summer and am finally returning to Vietnam next month. I will happily go to Cuba one of these days. If the embargo was supposed to run the Castro clan out of power, it has failed miserably. Cuba, like the other countries I mentioned, will slowly move to a more free society with exposure to the fruits of capitalism.
Exactly $.02 worth from me.
 
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