Decisions, Decisions, Decisions (3007/2897)

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ChefJunk

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Requesting a little help from the owners of the older generation carvers.

I am in a pickle. I have found two boats that are a good value and good condition. I am trying to decide which one I should pursue more seriously. I like each equally and both are compromises. After all, all boats are compromises aren't they?

One is a 1981 Carver 3007 Aft Cabin (twin 270 crusaders, 1000 hours). The other is a 1985 Carver 2897 Mariner (twin 230 merc's, 700 hours). I like the room inside of the aft cabin over the room inside of the mariner. I like the room out in the cockpit and bridge on the mariner over the aft cabin. The biggest drawback of the aft cabin is the tiny aft deck, almost too small. The biggest drawback of the mariner is the tight quarters when having guests stay aboard. The mariner has one helm station vs. two on the aft cabin (although I have not determined if this is a negative or a positive!)

Assuming both are of the same condition mechanically and cosmetically, both are of similar values (between $15k and $20k for either after little things are completed), both survey out fine, what do you highly experienced Carver owners feel are the biggest pro's and con's of each model in comparison to each other?

So you know how I will use the boat, I am not a serious fisherman or heavily into watersports but would like to be able to do either in a pinch. The boat will be used primarily on Lake Erie. My primary use of the boat will be as a place to stay when I visit the islands for work (I LOVE my job!). I would occasionally like to be able to take a customer or two to the islands for a day or overnight. Taking the parents of girlfriend/friends for a cruise is of course another primary use. I do have 2 lab mix dogs and the aft cabin rises concerns a little, any experiences here? I am 6'2" and not a little guy. I am a Chef so I have already approved the galley in both.

Please let me know what your opinions are and what you feel are the selling points of each. I have heavily researched both models and really want to hear the opinions of people who actually use and enjoy either of these models. Also, with $5 gas on the horizon, I have to ask the question, "which is more economical?" or better stated, "which is the lesser economical to operate of the two?"

I know moving to a 32 aft cabin or the 32 convertible would be the best move to suit my needs but that is just not in the budget for my first boat on my own. These two models presented here are ones that I feel are a good value and fit into my budget.

Sincere Thanks,

Jim
 
Wow, Jim, that is a tough call...

I'm probably going to suggest the 2897, for the same reason I chose a 2896 over a 3326 nearly two years ago (hey look on the bright side - at least you have more money than I did at the time, and are looking at two newer boats!).

The 2897 is (1) newer, (2) has less hours on it, (3) has small block 5.0L engines in it versus the larger motors on the 3007. You didn't mention if the Mariner had the full windshield (big glass/windshield wipers) or the venturi windshield. If it has the full windshield that's another reason to go with it. The single helm eliminates duplication on such a small boat, and the big windshield and a good canvas are a pretty good substitution for the fully enclosed lower helm in bad weather...

The 3007, on the other hand, has the bigger motors, is heavier and will be a gas hog, plus all the other issues you mention. Unless you really, really want that aft cabin, and if you want to do any kind of serious fishing, the 28 is a better choice, IMHO...

Not that the 3007 is a bad boat. Its just that based on your description above you didn't give me any reason to recommend it for your type of boating. I know you said you'd like to do a few overnights but am not sure that sufficiently justifies the extra investment. Were you planning extended trips up the canals or Lakes or something with two couples and/or some kids, it might be a different story...

PS - maybe in the end it will come down to price, or the overall condition of one boat versus the other...
 
I own an '82 3007 and can only comment about it. The dual helm is quite nice. We use the flybridge 90% of the time. However, I've enjoyed having the lower helm for cold or rainy weather. I just limit myself to 7 knots down there, due to the limited views.

I'm 6'0" so I understand the need for headroom, which mine offers. I don't fish much so the aft cockpit is sufficient. We primarily use it in conjunction with a couple of foldable chairs.

We like sleeping in the V-berth, putting guests and cargo in the aft cabin. We find it a convenient place to change clothes too.

I like not having a permanent settee in the cabin. Most boats that size have them. Hopefully, your 3007 comes with the adjustable stock table that serves multiple purposes....eating, cards, laptop.

I have the 220 hp Crusaders in mine and the fuel economy is marginal. However, I don't have exact numbers yet, due to a dirty bottom. It comfortably cruises at 17 mph or my preferred speed, 9-10 mph. The exhaust is piped through the swim platform, thus making the boat exceptionally quiet. Do have the exhaust system carefully checked. Mine was replaced by the seller at 1200 hours. Our modern Mercruiser exhaust system will add extra hours to the engines.

The 3007 is a bear in the wind, especially if it has a flybridge cover.

Finally, the holding tank is quite small. One or two days and it's time to hunt for a pump-out.
 
Hi Jim, I think you have already examined many of the pros and cons. I have a 2897 mariner, and I admit, putting the table down or sliding out the sofa for kids/company is a pain in the butt. Of course the trade off is we have a relatively spacious back deck with a walk through transom (I do like that walk through....makes swimming and getting into the dinghy so much easier and more enjoyable). If you have company on a regular basis, the aft cabin would be handy. If it's only occassionally, the aft deck of the mariner is a bonus, as is the larger bridge. As for the 2nd helm, this is our 3rd flybridge boat, and I personally dont miss the lower helm at all. In fact I prefer the extra room in the cabin that would have been lost to a lower helm station, and having a 'permanent' table/sette is a big bonus for us, but as Greg noted above, he likes not having the table.....it's a matter of personal preference. A friend of mine who once owned a 3007 found it rather 'tender' when it got rough, particularly in a beam sea. Personally, I've not been aboard a 3007, so I can only state the 28 is very stable with a beam of 11'1". As for the engines, I personally prefer crusaders, but the mercs youre looking at have less hours. Perhaps someone more mechanically inclined can offer some advice. And finally, keep in mind the 28 will be cheaper to keep in most marinas. In our home port, the 30 footer would cost us an extra 208 bucks a year, plus of course any extra fee's when travelling. Finally, and this is just my opinion, based on purely anectdotal information, I think you'll find the 28 Mariner easier to sell one day, if it's well kept up. Best of luck.
 
WOW! $208 for two feet. That's a lot of dough...

The 3007 is going to feel "tender" because its a tall boat on almost the same beam as the 2897 (11'4" vs. 11'1")

As for the holding tank, I'm sure you could upgrade the tank on either boat - you just have to find a suitable place for it. I have two tanks combined on my 2896 for a total of 44.5 gallons!!!

See, I tell everyone that MY boat can take a lot of $h!t :) ...
 
Agree that it's a tall boat and it can rock a bit when you're on the flybridge. But...we've ran it through SCA on the Sound and had no problems.

The reason I like not having a permanent settee is that it gives flexibility for seating. We have two full chairs in ours and can easily add more as needed. Also, we don't mind eating with tv trays.

As for the holding tanks, ours will last more than two days if I take advantage of my outdoor plumbing in combination with prostrate platform. Speaking of....why is it legal for a man to discreetly whiz in the water but a boat cannot dump a holding tank full of piss?

-Greg
 
Thanks everyone for their input. I think I will lowball the Mariner and see how it goes.

The 3007 is pristine (but dated) and they are asking $22k.

The 2897 is only $10k (think I might be able to get for $7k) but needs a tuneup, tanks drained/cleaned, and probably new canvas. The owner's mechanic assures me he would, for $700-1200, get it running. The boat needs a cleaning and some updating. I am a natural DIY'er so this boat is more up my alley condition wise. I would budget my work on this boat, and the cost of the boat to be around $16-18 after it is all said and done. I think the dogs will be safer in the cockpit as well. Don't worry, no green leaves my hands until a survey is done.

I will let you know how it goes.

Thanks again,

Jim
 
Pete, I agree....$208 for 2 feet is pricey....., but thats what the marina charges ...$104/ft. But that includes spring launch, summer slip, and winter storing and blocking....and free pumpouts all summer long....esp handy for those boats that are full of .....
 
Jim,
Especially with the dogs (we have an 11 year old Labradoodle), I would opt for the 2897. It's a nice performer and quite a stable boat with an awesome galley.

Pete, I think the Skiff windshield was only available on the 2827 Voyager, but I might be mistaken. Being that the boat is in our territory, it more than likely has the venturi windshield as I only remember selling one with the skiff
 
2827 was the Voyager, correct Ken? I know they played around a bit with names on that series for awhile. The brochures of that era are a bit unclear regarding which boats get the regular windshield versus the venturi one. I thought it might have been an option on all of the flybridge 28s at that time, but perhaps not...

"Speaking of....why is it legal for a man to discreetly whiz in the water but a boat cannot dump a holding tank full of piss?"

Technically its NOT. You are breaking the law when you pee-pee in the water. However, an entire flock of Canada geese can $h!t in that same water and its just fine, and if you try to get rid of them by shooting a couple of 'em out of season, you can go to jail for a nice long while. Where we boat it can be a real problem as we've had times when our kids' feet, clothes and hands are full of nice green goose $h!t. Just another example of our lovely government putting animals rights above those of our children, IMHO, but that's a subject for NBR...
 
quote:
Originally posted by ChefJunk

Thanks everyone for their input. I think I will lowball the Mariner and see how it goes.

The 3007 is pristine (but dated) and they are asking $22k.

The 2897 is only $10k (think I might be able to get for $7k) but needs a tuneup, tanks drained/cleaned, and probably new canvas. The owner's mechanic assures me he would, for $700-1200, get it running. The boat needs a cleaning and some updating. I am a natural DIY'er so this boat is more up my alley condition wise. I would budget my work on this boat, and the cost of the boat to be around $16-18 after it is all said and done. I think the dogs will be safer in the cockpit as well. Don't worry, no green leaves my hands until a survey is done.

I will let you know how it goes.

Thanks again,

Jim

Click to expand...


Again, I can only speak for the 3007 but 22k is a great price. We paid 32k for our '82 which was completely remodeled/updated on the interior. Mechanically, it had deficiencies, primarily from sitting too much in a marina. If your's is a complete package, you might want to consider it and save yourself headaches from having to clean up someone else's neglect. I think DIY's are more fun when improving a boat vs. repairing one.

Regardless, pay very close attention to the survey and have the mechanical, hull, and systems checked thoroughly.

-Greg
 
Well, I appreciate everyones input. I put an offer in on the 2897 and it was accepted. We are signing a contract (seller and I) as an agreement to sell/purchase at the agreed upon price. No money will change hands till the spring so I can have the work done to get the mechanicals operational and a survey done.

Other than a good cleaning and waxing on the outside everything looks good out there. Canvas is decent, probably replaceable in 2-3 years.

The inside is incredibly clean. I did not have a light when I first saw it. Upon further inspection, it pretty much looks like it did when new in 1986. A major plus is there is no dated fabrics!

Can't wait to get to the islands...

Thanks again for all of your help!

Jim
 
Congratulations with the new boat, Jim!!! I hope you have many fun filled adventures with your new purchase...
 
The formica is navy blue, the curtains are a lighter blue, but the seating surfaces are a very nice off white (VERY clean) velour? like material with a square embossed pattern to it. Thankfully there are none of the teal and pink or baby blue and pink fabrics! Got her for $9500 and I am on cloud 9! The extra $10500 that I had budgeted for a vessel will come in handy at the pump! May look into adding air/heat but the window unit setup works reasonably well with this model i think.

I may try to get a few pictures, it's buried in storage though.

Jim
 
Ram,

There's a good chance you guys may have sold it new in 86. They originally bought it in the cleveland area.

Jim
 
that's an attractive interior, really doesn't need any updating. I like that seat material. How come I can never find a deal like that. Anything I look at that cheap...looks like it should be less! Get me the hull number, I can try and track the owner(s)
 
Jim..the upholstery in taht on you gave the link for started out burgundy...kind of a pinkish tan now.
 
Here is a link to some photos of the boat I purchased. I am new to photobucket so I hope I did it right.

http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg1/legochef/

It is filthy dirty, but it has been in storage for a long time so that is expected. The boat, although it may not look it, is in incredible condition. The photo's don't do it justice but are good to have to see where I started from. I will post pictures in the spring as well when I get it cleaned up and ready to go.

As you can see, it lacks alot of options (like dual dockside power, generator, AC/Heat, Oven, Cockpit Washdown, Electric Head, Hour Meters, Skiff Windshield, Spotlight, etc.) but I am willing to settle for a stripped down model for the price I got it for. It's a pretty darn nice boat for a first boat I think.

Any one here add AC/Heat to this boat or a similar sized boat? Any ideas on what it would cost me? Half tempted to just throw a window unit in the rear and call it the White Trash Yacht Club.

Have not decided on a name yet but here are the front runners:

Goody Miss Two Screws
Jimmy's Buffet
Thirsty Howell III (like Thurston from Gilligan's Island, my last name is Howell)
Grocery Getter (I sell food and will use the boat to see customers on the island)
Beer Thirty (I am pushing 30, love the beer)
Nauti Chef (I am a trained Chef)

Thanks again for everyones help!

Jim

_____________________________

Ram,

The hull number is CDRJ9062C686. The photo is not too clear, the second "C" may be a 0. I left the paperwork and etching at my office in Cleveland. I appreciate any info you may have. Is there any way to get a copy of the build sheet and owners manual from Carver?

Thanks,

Jim
 
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