Diesel fuel filter system
- Thread starter BillyK
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I have racors but not a canister mount.
"I am interested in the gauges.
So what gauge?
Any vacuum gage you like rated for fuel preferably with a 0-30" HG sweep or like that with an accuracy rating of 3% or less will work great. I used 2" as in the pictures but some folks like smaller reading faces. You can get back or bottom mount (for fuel inlets) so pick what works for you - the 'snubbers' and glycerin keep the gage needles from vibrating wildly because of the fuel pressure changes from the injection pump cycling.
Where do you add it?
Gages are reading the vacuum between the engine mounted suction pump and the filter you want to read the Hg drop as a result of plugging. Typically they are placed just after the 1st filter coming out of the tank as that is the one that gets the worst loading. Less common is using multiple gages that will allow you to read each filter loading independently but you will need to get 'used to' the combined readings of the upline gages(further away from the tank)
"Does it restrict flow at all?"
I do not have my gages in line as you see from the pics - they are "T"'s off of the main line so the fittings are all that affect the pressure. Use full flow fittings and reducers and avoid 90 degree fittings all along the fuel flow for best flow.
"Sounds like a useful thing to have."
Once you have them you will have completely different conversations about filter changes and maintenance that will surprise you.
"Racor "T" handle gages"
Typically sell for near $100 each but if you can get them cheaper that is a great deal. IMHO I find them to be in the way when trying to change the Racor filters which are much harder and time consuming then a spin on bulk filter which can be changed within 30 seconds into a 2 gallon pail.
"Where to get gages"
The last group of 10 I bought about 3 years ago at "thegagestore.com" but I do not have the part numbers with me or even at home(on the boat). The picture shows the 2" , fuel oil rated, bottom feed, 0-30" Hg, blck/white faced gauge that was in that group. I know from another forum that many are buying these gages on line at various places and choosing other sizes and feeds to meet their specific needs.
Hope this helps
So what gauge?
Any vacuum gage you like rated for fuel preferably with a 0-30" HG sweep or like that with an accuracy rating of 3% or less will work great. I used 2" as in the pictures but some folks like smaller reading faces. You can get back or bottom mount (for fuel inlets) so pick what works for you - the 'snubbers' and glycerin keep the gage needles from vibrating wildly because of the fuel pressure changes from the injection pump cycling.
Where do you add it?
Gages are reading the vacuum between the engine mounted suction pump and the filter you want to read the Hg drop as a result of plugging. Typically they are placed just after the 1st filter coming out of the tank as that is the one that gets the worst loading. Less common is using multiple gages that will allow you to read each filter loading independently but you will need to get 'used to' the combined readings of the upline gages(further away from the tank)
"Does it restrict flow at all?"
I do not have my gages in line as you see from the pics - they are "T"'s off of the main line so the fittings are all that affect the pressure. Use full flow fittings and reducers and avoid 90 degree fittings all along the fuel flow for best flow.
"Sounds like a useful thing to have."
Once you have them you will have completely different conversations about filter changes and maintenance that will surprise you.
"Racor "T" handle gages"
Typically sell for near $100 each but if you can get them cheaper that is a great deal. IMHO I find them to be in the way when trying to change the Racor filters which are much harder and time consuming then a spin on bulk filter which can be changed within 30 seconds into a 2 gallon pail.
"Where to get gages"
The last group of 10 I bought about 3 years ago at "thegagestore.com" but I do not have the part numbers with me or even at home(on the boat). The picture shows the 2" , fuel oil rated, bottom feed, 0-30" Hg, blck/white faced gauge that was in that group. I know from another forum that many are buying these gages on line at various places and choosing other sizes and feeds to meet their specific needs.
Hope this helps
An article really worth reading if you are going to pursue this to some degree...
http://www.sbmar.com/index.php/articles/marine_fuel_filtration_-_the_seaboard_way
Hope this helps
http://www.sbmar.com/index.php/articles/marine_fuel_filtration_-_the_seaboard_way
Hope this helps
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I am with Pascal. I had electric primer pumps on the Viking and it made the process a snap. I have manual plunger pumps on my current boat and they are a PIA.
- Joined
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Well given the type of mount I have I see no place to put a guage except inline.
"Well given the type of mount I have I see no place to put a guage except inline."
Perhaps remove the 90 hose fitting going to the engine from the filter - replace it with a "T" that has the fuel going straight though and attach the gage to the "T" side. If you look through the article I linked right above you will see a few examples of what I was just trying to describe.
Electric primer pumps can be helpful but please keep in mind that many can add an extra amount of resistance to flow if you don't install them 'offline" with a method to engage then when needed (valve). I find that "T"-ing in a large primer bulb has more than enough capacity to prime in a half a dozen compressions for the final on engine filter - at least in my case.
Hope this helps
Perhaps remove the 90 hose fitting going to the engine from the filter - replace it with a "T" that has the fuel going straight though and attach the gage to the "T" side. If you look through the article I linked right above you will see a few examples of what I was just trying to describe.
Electric primer pumps can be helpful but please keep in mind that many can add an extra amount of resistance to flow if you don't install them 'offline" with a method to engage then when needed (valve). I find that "T"-ing in a large primer bulb has more than enough capacity to prime in a half a dozen compressions for the final on engine filter - at least in my case.
Hope this helps
- Joined
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This is why usually you d want the electric priming pumps to be in parallel with valves so that in normal conditions they re out of the loop. Literally.
Usually you don't need priming pumps like when changing filters. We have manual priming pumps on the cats here on Charmer and they re fine when changing secondaries.
Usually you don't need priming pumps like when changing filters. We have manual priming pumps on the cats here on Charmer and they re fine when changing secondaries.
There were a few folks who wanted to add valves near the tanks and bulk filters to help with changes. When you have the vacuum gages with the ball valves you can also use the vac gages to check and see if you have any fuel line/filter/hose etc leaks by closing the valves and taking a short crank (very short) on the starter with the fuel rack closed. You then have a few inches of Hg on the gage and can watch to see if the gages fall over a half hour or so. I have found when everything is in good shape the vacuum will hold for weeks with no noticeable change other than if there is a larger change in temps. Here is a pic of the fuel valve manifold that is on the boat.
Hope this helps
Hope this helps
Here is what looks to be a really good alternative to the dial vac gauge near the filters:
Digivac dash guage with alarm: http://www.digivac.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/model_500_fail_safe_alert.pdf
The sensor can be mounted in place of a Racor-type"T" filter handle or "T-d" off inline.
Still no flow restriction if full flow fittings are used, as with the dial gauges, no fuel goes through the sensor.
And I believe the digital gage/display can read up to 3 sensors , plus can output to a 2nd station Digivac display, if desired.
It allows one to monitor filter status ( or vent , pickup and any A/S valve condition) right at the helm full time, and the alert levels are user settable so one could be alerted to a potential fuel starvation well before the engine falters, so no downtime if you have a switchable filter manifold.
However, the Digivac setup is of course a lot spendier at about $550 for display ( not sure whether or not that includes 1 sensor and cable?) plus $300 for sensors w/ 15' cable. Longer cables are available. I believe there is a single-sensor system for a bit less. Since there is no breakable gauge lens on the sensor the system may be USCG legal for gassers too, unlike most dial gauges.
Smitty has a good point about being able to detect suction air leaks too.
Digivac dash guage with alarm: http://www.digivac.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/model_500_fail_safe_alert.pdf
The sensor can be mounted in place of a Racor-type"T" filter handle or "T-d" off inline.
Still no flow restriction if full flow fittings are used, as with the dial gauges, no fuel goes through the sensor.
And I believe the digital gage/display can read up to 3 sensors , plus can output to a 2nd station Digivac display, if desired.
It allows one to monitor filter status ( or vent , pickup and any A/S valve condition) right at the helm full time, and the alert levels are user settable so one could be alerted to a potential fuel starvation well before the engine falters, so no downtime if you have a switchable filter manifold.
However, the Digivac setup is of course a lot spendier at about $550 for display ( not sure whether or not that includes 1 sensor and cable?) plus $300 for sensors w/ 15' cable. Longer cables are available. I believe there is a single-sensor system for a bit less. Since there is no breakable gauge lens on the sensor the system may be USCG legal for gassers too, unlike most dial gauges.
Smitty has a good point about being able to detect suction air leaks too.
"The sensor can be mounted in place of a Racor-type"T" filter handle or "T-d" off inline.
Still no flow restriction if full flow fittings are used, as with the dial gauges, no fuel goes through the sensor.
And I believe the digital gage/display can read up to 3 sensors , plus can output to a 2nd station Digivac display, if desired."
I always like techie stuff like this - I just gravitate to gizmos and devise that make stuff easy and add data. But this always leaves me with a personal conflict between what I like and what I think is a better solution.
The problem is that most all of the boaters I know find most electrical 'senders' , 'gages' and , 'devices' to be problematic and less than accurate over time. We often take that for granted until we have problem with the tach/oil press/ temp/fuel tank lever/ holding tank etc and then most of us immediately check on accuracy of that sender/gage.
If its a water or holding tank we are in there with flashlights or ohm meters, with oil pressure and temps we check with mechanical gages or IR, with fuel we add sight glass or look by inspection ports , etc , etc. I know that I fell much better looking at my mechanical oil pressure gages on eth filter boss then my panel gages ate each station. We feel this way because over time we have all been involved in some situation with our boat or a friends boat where these senders have been miss leading - you also often see it on this board when someone asks about a 'problem'.
So while I really like devises & gizmos I always keep a hand tach, an IR gun , a VOM , a mechanical oil press gage and a few other 'known' entity test devices on board to check out the engines/tanks/etc.
Perhaps just add 1-5 mechanical vacuum gages to monitor your filters and then add a reasonably cheap wireless camera to view the gages from where ever you want.
Again - I really like techie devices but I need my engines and boat to never fail and for that reason I monitor a number of engine functions with mechanical style gages.
YMMV - hope this helps
Still no flow restriction if full flow fittings are used, as with the dial gauges, no fuel goes through the sensor.
And I believe the digital gage/display can read up to 3 sensors , plus can output to a 2nd station Digivac display, if desired."
I always like techie stuff like this - I just gravitate to gizmos and devise that make stuff easy and add data. But this always leaves me with a personal conflict between what I like and what I think is a better solution.
The problem is that most all of the boaters I know find most electrical 'senders' , 'gages' and , 'devices' to be problematic and less than accurate over time. We often take that for granted until we have problem with the tach/oil press/ temp/fuel tank lever/ holding tank etc and then most of us immediately check on accuracy of that sender/gage.
If its a water or holding tank we are in there with flashlights or ohm meters, with oil pressure and temps we check with mechanical gages or IR, with fuel we add sight glass or look by inspection ports , etc , etc. I know that I fell much better looking at my mechanical oil pressure gages on eth filter boss then my panel gages ate each station. We feel this way because over time we have all been involved in some situation with our boat or a friends boat where these senders have been miss leading - you also often see it on this board when someone asks about a 'problem'.
So while I really like devises & gizmos I always keep a hand tach, an IR gun , a VOM , a mechanical oil press gage and a few other 'known' entity test devices on board to check out the engines/tanks/etc.
Perhaps just add 1-5 mechanical vacuum gages to monitor your filters and then add a reasonably cheap wireless camera to view the gages from where ever you want.
Again - I really like techie devices but I need my engines and boat to never fail and for that reason I monitor a number of engine functions with mechanical style gages.
YMMV - hope this helps
After further investigation, apparently I do have a fuel filter on each engine.
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I think my questions may have become lost in the vacuum sauce, but I need to know the order of parts in a filter system
Would it go in an order like this?
Tanks to engine room
Ball valve in engine room
Electric primer
Vacuum gauge
Racor 1000
Secondary filter
Vacuum gauge
Filter on motor
Motor
Is this correct?
What primer do you recommend?
Secondary filter?
Thanks,
Billy K.
I think my questions may have become lost in the vacuum sauce, but I need to know the order of parts in a filter system
Would it go in an order like this?
Tanks to engine room
Ball valve in engine room
Electric primer
Vacuum gauge
Racor 1000
Secondary filter
Vacuum gauge
Filter on motor
Motor
Is this correct?
What primer do you recommend?
Secondary filter?
Thanks,
Billy K.
"Would it go in an order like this?
Tanks to engine room
Ball valve in engine room
Electric primer
Vacuum gauge
Racor 1000
Secondary filter
Vacuum gauge
Filter on motor
Motor
Is this correct?
What primer do you recommend?
Secondary filter?"
Hello Billy,
I am not very familiar with the DD's and their associated fuel flow and vacuum limits and tendencies or there filtering micron ratings. I know that both boatdiesel(dot)com and the link posted above can speak about your application much more intelligently than I. Given that fair warning I will try and explain what I would do in this case after consulting one of those two sources (Sbmar/ boatdiesel)first for your specific application.
Tanks to engine room
1. Ball valve in engine room / 3 way ball valve feeding both the normal fuel path and a parallel path to primer
- Electric primer, in the parallel circuit after the 3 way valve
2. Single bulk filter like fleetguard in article (single head not expensive)
Typically 30 mic element
3 Vacuum gage here reads the drop between the engine and this bulk filter showing its status
4. Racor 1000 - you like these so keep them
Typically 20 or maybe 10 mic elements
5. Vacuum gauge- This gage will mostly read the status of this filter (and the system)
6. Filter on motor
Typically 2 mic or so
What I have described above is what I had more or less on my last 45 Bayliner with 220 diesels (the Racors were 900's).
FWIW - Once I went with this set up I was able to go at least 2 years between fuel filter changes at about 100 engine hours a year and 1,000 gallons a year total fuel used for mains. (Give or take) Of note is that at the end of 2 years the vacuum gages still did not show a need to replace the filters immediately but it became a convenient time to do so. By the time I went with this system my fuel was 'mostly' clean after originally struggling with poor condition fuel tanks that actually had over 15 gallons of water in them (and crud) from the boat sitting a few years.
Hope this helps
Tanks to engine room
Ball valve in engine room
Electric primer
Vacuum gauge
Racor 1000
Secondary filter
Vacuum gauge
Filter on motor
Motor
Is this correct?
What primer do you recommend?
Secondary filter?"
Hello Billy,
I am not very familiar with the DD's and their associated fuel flow and vacuum limits and tendencies or there filtering micron ratings. I know that both boatdiesel(dot)com and the link posted above can speak about your application much more intelligently than I. Given that fair warning I will try and explain what I would do in this case after consulting one of those two sources (Sbmar/ boatdiesel)first for your specific application.
Tanks to engine room
1. Ball valve in engine room / 3 way ball valve feeding both the normal fuel path and a parallel path to primer
- Electric primer, in the parallel circuit after the 3 way valve
2. Single bulk filter like fleetguard in article (single head not expensive)
Typically 30 mic element
3 Vacuum gage here reads the drop between the engine and this bulk filter showing its status
4. Racor 1000 - you like these so keep them
Typically 20 or maybe 10 mic elements
5. Vacuum gauge- This gage will mostly read the status of this filter (and the system)
6. Filter on motor
Typically 2 mic or so
What I have described above is what I had more or less on my last 45 Bayliner with 220 diesels (the Racors were 900's).
FWIW - Once I went with this set up I was able to go at least 2 years between fuel filter changes at about 100 engine hours a year and 1,000 gallons a year total fuel used for mains. (Give or take) Of note is that at the end of 2 years the vacuum gages still did not show a need to replace the filters immediately but it became a convenient time to do so. By the time I went with this system my fuel was 'mostly' clean after originally struggling with poor condition fuel tanks that actually had over 15 gallons of water in them (and crud) from the boat sitting a few years.
Hope this helps
Here is a copy of a pic in the article above showing a typical bulk filter installation prior to a Racor 1000 filter with a vac gage after the Racor....
http://sbmar.com/Articles/images/NS_Marine-Fuel-Filtration_4_600.jpg
http://sbmar.com/Articles/images/NS_Marine-Fuel-Filtration_4_600.jpg
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- 12,204
Tanks to engine room
Tee with valve on each outlet
Electric pump on one line, nothing on the other
Tee with valve on each inlet
Set of dual racor with valve and vac gauge
Motor (mechanical fuel pump inlet)
Secondary Filter on motor
Injector rack
No need to add a secondary, you already have it on the detroit
Having the tees and valves allows you to use the pump to prime yet isolate it completely out of the system when not needed
as mentioned earlier I really like the dual racors as you always have one filter ready to go on line on the fly if you ever need it
Tee with valve on each outlet
Electric pump on one line, nothing on the other
Tee with valve on each inlet
Set of dual racor with valve and vac gauge
Motor (mechanical fuel pump inlet)
Secondary Filter on motor
Injector rack
No need to add a secondary, you already have it on the detroit
Having the tees and valves allows you to use the pump to prime yet isolate it completely out of the system when not needed
as mentioned earlier I really like the dual racors as you always have one filter ready to go on line on the fly if you ever need it
"Tanks to engine room
Tee with valve on each outlet
Electric pump on one line, nothing on the other
Tee with valve on each inlet
Set of dual racor with valve and vac gauge
Motor (mechanical fuel pump inlet)
Secondary Filter on motor
Injector rack"
Hello Pascal,
Curious why you prefer valves on each set of "T"'s. What microns you prefer on each filter and why you do not prefer and initial bulk filter?
Thanks - Ron
Tee with valve on each outlet
Electric pump on one line, nothing on the other
Tee with valve on each inlet
Set of dual racor with valve and vac gauge
Motor (mechanical fuel pump inlet)
Secondary Filter on motor
Injector rack"
Hello Pascal,
Curious why you prefer valves on each set of "T"'s. What microns you prefer on each filter and why you do not prefer and initial bulk filter?
Thanks - Ron
Capt. Bill1
Active member
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- 2017
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- 6,127
You need the valves to isolate the priming pump when you don't need it.
- Joined
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- RO Number
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I use 30 microns for the primaries and 5 microns for secondaries.
As Bill said the valves allow you to only bring the pump online when you need it
I don't have priming pumps on th 8v71Nson my boat and a few years ago the port engine just wouldn't keep running when trying to come home one night. I ended up running a piece of hose from the outlet of th the generator elect fuel pump to the detroit mechanical fuels pump inlet. Turned the Genset key on so the pump would run and made it home that way feeding the DD with the Genset fuel pump...
As Bill said the valves allow you to only bring the pump online when you need it
I don't have priming pumps on th 8v71Nson my boat and a few years ago the port engine just wouldn't keep running when trying to come home one night. I ended up running a piece of hose from the outlet of th the generator elect fuel pump to the detroit mechanical fuels pump inlet. Turned the Genset key on so the pump would run and made it home that way feeding the DD with the Genset fuel pump...
"You need the valves to isolate the priming pump when you don't need it."
"Tanks to engine room
Tee with valve on each outlet
Electric pump on one line, nothing on the other
Tee with valve on each inlet"
I think this says you have a fuel line coming from the tank to one engine.
You take that line into "T" #1.
On each side of that "T" #1 you have a single stage valve. (I would use a 3 way valve and no "T" here)
One of those valves feed to the prime pump and then to "T" #2 and the other goes directly to the engine via that next "T" #2.
Why are valves used on "T" #2?
"Tanks to engine room
Tee with valve on each outlet
Electric pump on one line, nothing on the other
Tee with valve on each inlet"
I think this says you have a fuel line coming from the tank to one engine.
You take that line into "T" #1.
On each side of that "T" #1 you have a single stage valve. (I would use a 3 way valve and no "T" here)
One of those valves feed to the prime pump and then to "T" #2 and the other goes directly to the engine via that next "T" #2.
Why are valves used on "T" #2?