Flex in fiberglass

danielcooper9

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Wellcraft Martinique 2600.

My wife was walking on the bow to start hauling in the anchor this weekend and I happened to be in the door of the cabin looking forward. I noticed as she walked by the window hatch that the roof flexed as she stepped forward. I think I've read in prior posts that this should not happen/there should never be flex? I have noticed a few water spots in the lining which I couldn't figure out where a leak would be coming from as it was above the mounts for the bow railing but much lower than the hatch (around the hatch did not have water spots. I just resealed around the hatch and all the rail mounts.

Is it true that the fiberglass construction should never flex and if it is, then there is damage? If the water spots stop and no further damage is seen (like cracks), is it ok to not address the flex? I can only imagine that this would be a very large fix if it is water damage.

Thanks for the input
 
Not enough information to answer and not quite the right question (too simple). It's too general to say that fiberglass will never flex, or even to say that it should never flex. Could just be a weaker area of construction, which again is not enough information to even form an opinion on whether its a case of shoddy construction or not. Sounds like a typical area on a boat where as a designer one may not necessarily need or want the weight of a more bullett proof construction method.

That said, often the solution to add stiffness to an area with a minimum of added weight is to core the area. Often this coring material is end grain balsa. Balsa is chosen because of some strength advantages over foam and sometimes due to cost reasons as well. Unfortunately, balsa is not forving to shoddy construction techniques, which quite frankly are in fact the norm, not the exception in the marine industry. Wellcraft over the years has built some good boats but like other builders has not been beyond question on build techniques. Nor is balsa forgiving to leaky fasteners, hatches and any other potential source of water intrustion. I'm being nice by not calling into question what owners/boatyards may have done on the boat since new. While its mostly a myth of balsa wicking immediately across its entire surface (that's why they use end grain), often it was installed and bedded poorly and if the problem has been allowed to fester for a long time, the entire core can be suspect. If you catch it early though, the problem CAN be isolated within a defined area and dealt with accordingly.

So....here are the items you need to consider.

1.) Is the area in fact cored at all? Usually you can pull a fasterner or two to discover this.

2.) If it is cored, what is it cored with?

3.) Has the core seen water intrusion? Again, often by pulling fasteners you can discover this. What you don't want to discover is dark discolored or black mushy. Either is a problem or potential problem.

If your surface is not cored, its likely just a thiner part of construction used to keep the overall boat weight down. There is a big distinction between the cabin roof and location of a possible hatch, and the bow area where cleats/windless would be mounted. I'm not familiar with your boat, but don't accept flex in an area of high stress. The tension on a windless or bow cleat is enough to tear the area right out of the boat.

If the area is cored, I would be highly suspect of a compromised core. This is a VERY common scenario. Depending upon the boat, there sometimes is a silver lining to a failed core in this area of a boat. Namely if you can get easy access to the interior of the area, core can replaced from the inside, where cosmetically the fix will ultimately not be seen. Often these fixes are not as difficult as they seem, IF, you can get access.

Your next question, not asked yet, will be whether you can just let it go? The answer is NO if it is around any areas of needed strength such as around a winless, cleats, etc... If however its just a cabin roof, you will need to stabilize the area and ensure it does not get worse. There is nothing on this planet you can smooge though any glorified straw to "fix" what is in there. However, there are some products that can be smooged through a straw to keep the area from getting worse, BUT, they only work if you can dry the area first. Nothing will work against wet material. Of course the best solution to drying the area, drum roll please....is to open the area up. Once you have done that you have done 80% of the hard work to replacing the core anyway. There are methods by which you can drill a series of holes from the inside to help the drying process, which sometimes can work. They are rarely employed by glass workers as in the final analysis because it in fact takes longer to go that route than just opening up the patient and performing the needed surgery.

So....I think your next step is to take the above summary and go back to the boat and do some more investigation. Do you have a core?

BTW, one last observation. I noted you used the language "resealed around.....". that leaves me with the impression that you have noted leaking rail stantions and hatch. It also leaves me with the impression that your solution to rebedding those items was to simply try to caulk around those items. If I'm right, then I'll state that you not only did not make anything better, but also made an unsightly mess around them as well. Bottom line is this, unless you remove those fittings and "bed" them with a good marine grade sealant, preferably not silicone IMHO then you are wasting your time and just creating a bigger problem to solve. Sealant needs to go between clean mating surfaces. Any other approach just doesn't work. The good news is that when you bed something properly you hardly see the sealant at all and it will last many years if the area is structurally sound.

Good Luck.
 
Ghost,

Thanks for the reply. The flex is in a non-stress area. Regarding sealing the hatch and rail mounts, it is partially a poor choice of words on my part. I re-sealed the rail by removing the screws and lifting the rail up so that I could get sealant in the screw holes. I also intended to remove the hatch but after removing the screws, I could not get the hatch out. It was getting late in the day and I didn't want to force it and break something so I simply "caulked" around the hatch with sealant. I know this isn't a proper fix but a temp job until I have the time to try and pry the hatch out. For what it's worth, I didn't notice any dark material when removing any screws. I bought the boat 2 years ago and the surveyor noted that the construction was "Molded FRP (fiber reinforced plastic) with white gelcoat and non-skid surface, cored." He also noted that this area had several areas with "voids" but downplayed this as most likely "there from the factory".

When you are talking about access to the area to re-core. Can you elaborate? I assume the core material is a layer between fiberglass? There is nothing in the way of getting to the inside construction exept the carpet liner. If this needed to be done, do you take off the bottom layer of fiberglass to get to the core material, replace the core, then re-glass. Sorry if these are stupid questions but I'm not familiar fiberglass construction techniques.
 
You got it Daniel. You would take a zip saw or multi master or something equally dexterous and cut around the affected area, pull off the outer layer of glass (save it), rebed and r&r the coring material.

If you have never done glass work, then get some books to fill in the blanks. I recommend Vaitses as an author, but there are many.

It's pretty common that a surveyor finds a few voids that may be factory. A few in and of themselves is not a big deal, though those voids do allow water to make spread faster if water intrusion comes into play. Better to not have them, but not really surprising to find a few here and there, especially around corners and places where its easy to form an air bubble that cures before it gets found.

If you are pretty sure you have water intrusion, but not positive, there is a only slightly destructive method of testing for bad core and identifying conclusively how far it is spread. Get a drill and a drill bit. Determine how thick your laminate is and mark the drill bit so that you would only drill through one layer of glass and to the bottom of the core. On the inside where you will do no cosmetic damage, drill a hole. If you get black or mush, keep drilling a few inches apart until you find good material. You can then use a marker to draw around the good/bad. If you find foam core or not problem, then stop right there, fill the holes with a marine putty and go boating. If you find wet foam, open it up and give it a way to dry over time. Rebed everything that may be leaking. The worst thing to do is to rebed and seal in moisture if you have any wood in that core. Wood actually can get wet and stay intact for a good period of time. It's when it start to dry that the rot spores take over. So once you start drying, you need to find a way to do so rapidly. This is the phase that things go from bad to worse!
 
We also have a slight bit of flex in the same area. Doesn't seem to be a problem, just the way it was constructed. Now I never said that it flexed with the admiral only with my 200lbs let me clarify that. Your very brave.
 
I thought of that after I posted that sarcastic minds like myself could take that image places not intended. Although, most members of this site would not stoop that low (well at least wouldn't post that as a response). Let's just say that an average size person will make that area of the deck flex.
 
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