Fuel tank serviced
- Thread starter Billylll
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Capt. Bill1
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30 mic filters!? For a high HP high fuel flow engine sure. But for a low HP low fuel flow engine what's the point?
"Southwest Research Institute found that the most damaging particle size for diesel fuel injection systems is 5 to 7 microns."
From Racor:
"A filter that is marked “10 microns” has some capability in capturing particles as small as 10 microns. However, there is no one accepted method to measure and describe the size of particles that a filter can capture or the total amount of particles that the filter can hold. When you see the filter marked “10 microns”, you will not know exactly what this means unless you also have a description of the test and standards used to determine the filter rating."
I don't know about you but I have never heard of an engine failing because the fuel was to clean.
This is one of those "I've been doing it that way for years and never had a problem" discussions. I have run my 450hP diesels with 2 micron and 20 micrn and not seen any change in performance. I have no way to tell if the fuel is cleaner or not with either size. It is instructive that engine makers use 2-10 micron for their basic filter. That has always indicated to me that they think smaller is important. For the added filtration I liked the idea of the larger size canister filters to stop junk before it gets to the on engine filters that are a PITA to change. I settled on 10 micron years ago for those. Was that the right choice? Who Knows? The absolutely best thing I have ever found for clean fuel is to run the engines a lot. Keep that fuel circulation, keep it looking ruby red, and the engines will be happy.
Older diesels will run on some god awful stuff, truckers have been known to toss old lube oil into the tank, but the mantra of diesel happiness is clean fuel, clean fuel.
Mostly water is more of a problem than dirt.
PS. I never use additives. Popcorn anyone
Older diesels will run on some god awful stuff, truckers have been known to toss old lube oil into the tank, but the mantra of diesel happiness is clean fuel, clean fuel.
Mostly water is more of a problem than dirt.
PS. I never use additives. Popcorn anyone
No popcorn needed Bruce. I think this is a great conversation.
Thanks for your input.
Remember I'm dealing with a boat that has basically not been properly run for the last 2 years.
I have no idea how old the fuel is or its condition.
Bill
Thanks for your input.
Remember I'm dealing with a boat that has basically not been properly run for the last 2 years.
I have no idea how old the fuel is or its condition.
Bill
Well, I'm having the fuel polished and the tank tested at my expense tomorrow. If the fuel needs to be removed it's the same $350.00 fee.
The guy doing the tank service is also a certified marine diesel mechanic.
To make a long story shorter the broker and I are at odds over this well at least who is going to pay for it.
He was actually stupid enough to suggest I not do a sea trial and just start the engines at the dock. Well that's plain old ridiculous because how would I know if the boat was properly propped, if the engines don't start to run hot while under load I could go on and on..... about that comment!
I told him no deal without a full sea trial but I asked that he get the owners permission that I have the fuel inspected, polished and the tank tested.
I think it's the best $350.00 I'll ever spend. I just got an e-mail with the owner's permission.
Bill
The guy doing the tank service is also a certified marine diesel mechanic.
To make a long story shorter the broker and I are at odds over this well at least who is going to pay for it.
He was actually stupid enough to suggest I not do a sea trial and just start the engines at the dock. Well that's plain old ridiculous because how would I know if the boat was properly propped, if the engines don't start to run hot while under load I could go on and on..... about that comment!
I told him no deal without a full sea trial but I asked that he get the owners permission that I have the fuel inspected, polished and the tank tested.
I think it's the best $350.00 I'll ever spend. I just got an e-mail with the owner's permission.
Bill
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Bill,
Clean the tanks and get rid of the old 80 gallons of fuel. 2+ years that fuel is no good. It's not that much fuel and it's not worth having the engines performance effected by it.
You seem to be a very thorough guy, I wouldn't mess around with such a small amount of questionable fuel.
That's just me.
Clean the tanks and get rid of the old 80 gallons of fuel. 2+ years that fuel is no good. It's not that much fuel and it's not worth having the engines performance effected by it.
You seem to be a very thorough guy, I wouldn't mess around with such a small amount of questionable fuel.
That's just me.
I would just use the fuel if it looks clean and smells OK. Low power diesels aren't too particular.
I would not add new fuel just use as much as possible then add some more and use that up. That is the only way to get most of the old fuel out, running on low levels a few times.
I would not add new fuel just use as much as possible then add some more and use that up. That is the only way to get most of the old fuel out, running on low levels a few times.
I was informed yesterday that the tank is almost full. I'm meeting the fuel and tank testing company on site tomorrow morning.
I can't for the $350 see a negative side to this being done. I'll sleep better at night knowing I'm starting with a properly cleaned tank and tested and polished fuel.
Bill
I can't for the $350 see a negative side to this being done. I'll sleep better at night knowing I'm starting with a properly cleaned tank and tested and polished fuel.
Bill
what they are going to do is run the fuel through filters probably racors. You wll be able to see how much crud they collect.
The problem with all these systems I know about is that they just circulate fuel.That is a mixing problem where filtered fuel is put back into the tank and the dirty and clean fuel mix to be filtered again, I don't know how many times it would have to be cycled to declare victory. It should however remove water and stir up bottom crud. This is identical to what the engine does on its own.
The problem with all these systems I know about is that they just circulate fuel.That is a mixing problem where filtered fuel is put back into the tank and the dirty and clean fuel mix to be filtered again, I don't know how many times it would have to be cycled to declare victory. It should however remove water and stir up bottom crud. This is identical to what the engine does on its own.
Bruce I understand the process but I would prefer to start out with the engines filters having to do less work cleaning the fuel. In addition I will be going to the dual RACOR setup where I can switch filters as needed without having to stop the vessel. I'll also be installing the water probes to alert me to any water that accumulates in the bowls of the filter assemblies.
Bill
Bill,
If your guy shows up with a set-up of racor filters, send him home. You have that on board as we speak. Tank cleaning requires high velocity and access to the lowest point of the tank. Depending on the vintage of your engine you may well be ok as it sets. I had my tanks cleaned (before I started my own tank cleaning business)as I was to start out on a 36 hour off shore run. Our equipment can move well over 800 gallons per hour and then we cam]n manifold them together for well over 4000 gph. We filter usually at 30 mic but can go down to 2 mic. When we drop to 2 mic we can not maintain the velocity to clean. So high velocity cleans tanks, small microns clean fuel. Our process is to clean the tank with a by-product of clean fuel. Cleaning the fuel and not cleaning the tank "is like putting the baby back in the dirty diaper".
Don't let these guys beat you up. Once your fuel guy comes out, that's one less thing for you to worry about.
If your guy shows up with a set-up of racor filters, send him home. You have that on board as we speak. Tank cleaning requires high velocity and access to the lowest point of the tank. Depending on the vintage of your engine you may well be ok as it sets. I had my tanks cleaned (before I started my own tank cleaning business)as I was to start out on a 36 hour off shore run. Our equipment can move well over 800 gallons per hour and then we cam]n manifold them together for well over 4000 gph. We filter usually at 30 mic but can go down to 2 mic. When we drop to 2 mic we can not maintain the velocity to clean. So high velocity cleans tanks, small microns clean fuel. Our process is to clean the tank with a by-product of clean fuel. Cleaning the fuel and not cleaning the tank "is like putting the baby back in the dirty diaper".
Don't let these guys beat you up. Once your fuel guy comes out, that's one less thing for you to worry about.
Here is a link to the company I am using the machine they use is shown on this page.
http://www.advancedtankandfuel.com/...ement-benefits-of-the-atf-cleaning-system.htm
Bill
http://www.advancedtankandfuel.com/...ement-benefits-of-the-atf-cleaning-system.htm
Bill
The main reason I'm doing this is eventually this boat has to go from the upper Chesapeake through the C&D canal down the Delaware Bay around throgh the Cape May canal either off shore or through the Jersey ICW up to Tuckerton in central NJ. At 8 knots tops this will be a pretty long trip. I want to enjoy the trip not worry about the what if's of fuel and tank cleaning.
I have too many other things or upgrades to perform so I want to leave the fuel and tank testing to the pro's.
I'm a newbie at best with diesels......
Bill
I have too many other things or upgrades to perform so I want to leave the fuel and tank testing to the pro's.
I'm a newbie at best with diesels......
Bill
Capt. Bill1
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I think you mentioned there is one access plate on the side of each tank? If that is correct are they going to pump down the tanks and go in that way? Or just send their magic wand down through the fill tube?