Head Upgrade

R

rawidman

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My new boat has a Jabsco manual head that flushes with seawater. It works fine. The problem is, the boat has a small holding tank, 15 gallons or less. I've already filled it twice and had to clean the through hull vent fitting of sewage.

Would converting the head to electric with the Jabsco kit (at about $450) cause it to use less water per flush? How about the Jabsco elecric head (at about $550)?

Or is there a better solution? A different brand/type of head that won't be a major project to retrofit.

Electric power and potable water are nearby so that wouldn't be a major issue.
 
I think you will get varied responses, but, seeing your boat, I would scrap the head altogether and start over. The biggest upgrade, assuming a switch to an electric head, would be an increase in the size of your holding tank-- if feasible.

What's your budget? Is it-- best at any expense? Reasonable expense? Quiet? Freshwater? I asked myself many of these same questions not too long ago-- so I have a few thoughts from my own reasearch.

Paul
 
quote:
Originally posted by AustinPaul

I think you will get varied responses, but, seeing your boat, I would scrap the head altogether and start over. The biggest upgrade, assuming a switch to an electric head, would be an increase in the size of your holding tank-- if feasible.

What's your budget? Is it-- best at any expense? Reasonable expense? Quiet? Freshwater? I asked myself many of these same questions not too long ago-- so I have a few thoughts from my own reasearch.

Paul

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Well, If I had room I would install a larger holding tank. I don't. That's a known issue with these boats. As far as expense, reasonable would be the answer. Quiet? not so much. I carry about 70 galons of fresh water so that's not a big concern.
 
I used to have a Jabsco raw water flush electric head and a 35 gallon tank. It was never enough capacity. I converted to a VacuFlush (which is fresh water) and a 45 gallon holding tank. It is just my wife and I on the boat but we found on our 4 day weekends we were having to be careful after the 3rd day. With the VacuFlush and shared #1's we find we can get 2-4 day weekends before needing a pump out. For effluent it really does use a little over a pint to flush and clean the bowl. I also like the fresh water and vent line filter cartridge we have no odors. It was well worth the effort. We mainly boat in a NDZ so a Purascan or LectraSan wouldn't do us any good. Our primary boating area is the southern N.J. ICW and Tuckerton area. I bought our SeaLand VacuFlush system on E-Bay from a boating parts dealer it was brand new. I still see the same dealer selling them from time to time. Our total cost for the VacuFlush head, generator, new hoses and tank was less than $1500. It was probably the best money we spent on the boat so far and we have spent plenty upgrading her.
Bill
 
quote:
Originally posted by Billylll

I used to have a Jabsco raw water flush electric head and a 35 gallon tank. It was never enough capacity. I converted to a VacuFlush (which is fresh water) and a 45 gallon holding tank. It is just my wife and I on the boat but we found on our 4 day weekends we were having to be careful after the 3rd day. With the VacuFlush and shared #1's we find we can get 2-4 day weekends before needing a pump out. For effluent it really does use a little over a pint to flush and clean the bowl. I also like the fresh water and vent line filter cartridge we have no odors. It was well worth the effort. We mainly boat in a NDZ so a Purascan or LectraSan wouldn't do us any good. Our primary boating area is the southern N.J. ICW and Tuckerton area. I bought our SeaLand VacuFlush system on E-Bay from a boating parts dealer it was brand new. I still see the same dealer selling them from time to time. Our total cost for the VacuFlush head, generator, new hoses and tank was less than $1500. It was probably the best money we spent on the boat so far and we have spent plenty upgrading her.
Bill

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That sounds like a plan, but what is a generator? And can I use the existing tank (because I don't have room for a larger one)?
 
Bill,
OK, I found their website and understand what a vacuum generator is. Still, it's a pretty bewildering site with dozens of different products and options. According to their website, the system must be installed by an authorized installer.

The big boating retailers each show one model in their catalogs with a "cassette" vacuum pump and removable holding tank. Not really what I am looking for.

How large is the vacuum generator? Which head and generator did you get? Do you remember the vendor's name?
 
Whew, 15 gallons, that is really limiting. That's fine that you have plenty of freshwater for flushing, but it's a moot point if there no room for it to go. Is a pumpout easily and readily accessible? If frequent pump outs aren't a problem, then I would just go the middle-of-the-road route and get a freshwater flush system from Jabsco or Sea Era. They're very reliable and fairly easy to install with little modifications to your current system needed. The main things needed would be to tap into a freshwater line and a 12v source.

Paul
 
15 gallons was fine for my old boat because I pumped it out after each trip (at home). The new one is in a marina and I'm not sure about pumpouts. I know they have a cart that they pull around but they only do it at high tide because they have to pull it back up the ramp from the floating dock.

I don't have an issue with seawater flushing or manual operation, I just need a way to use less water with each flush.
 
quote:
Originally posted by rawidman

15 gallons was fine for my old boat because I pumped it out after each trip (at home). The new one is in a marina and I'm not sure about pumpouts. I know they have a cart that they pull around but they only do it at high tide because they have to pull it back up the ramp from the floating dock.

I don't have an issue with seawater flushing or manual operation, I just need a way to use less water with each flush.

Click to expand...
I see your quandry. The vacu flush will use less water (for #1), but I'm not sure that it's all that radical a difference between it and a regular freshwater system. One option with the Jabsco (maybe with the Sea Era too, but I'm not sure. Vic can address) is that you can simply empty the bowl without using any water. You could add water to the bowl every other time? If you're pumping out often, you probably won't have to worry about having #1 sitting in the line going to the tank. For solids, you definitely would not want them sitting in the line, but flushed all the way to the tank.

For weekends, and when the water is warm enough to swim in (or it's dark outside and I can use the swim platform), we'll save the head for #2s and for the Admiral's use during the night if she doesn't want to get in the water. That's the best way to extend time between pumpouts.

Of course, pumping and rinsing the tank is the best path to cleanliness and low odors.

Paul
 
quote:
Originally posted by Vic Willman

As long as you're along the Atlantic coast or one of the tributaries leading to the ocean (not on a land-locked lake, or way up a river), you'd be a prime candidate for a treatment system, rather than a small holding tank. That's the direction I'd look in.

http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/purasan/L405v0804.pdf
http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/electroscan/L340electroscan0805.pdf
http://www.boatfix.com/elec/rartoi.asp

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Thanks, I'll check it out.
 
I got a price quote from a local Vacuflush dealer/installer:

$1356 for a used but rebuilt head and a used vacuum generator with a new motor.

$1947 for all new.

Installed prices with me as the "helper".

It's $350 or so more than I was thinking so I'm undecided at this point.
 
I had the same situation on our boat. Room only for a 15 gallon tank and a manual toilet. The solution for us was a Purasan Type I sanitation system. Draws only 15 amps for the two minute treatment cycle. Lower in cost than Electroscan. In fact, if you DIY (like I did) you can get the Purasan in for about the same cost as that rebuilt Vacuflush.

Check to see if type I systems are legal to use where you boat. You can't use them in No Discharge Zones (NDZs) which include all closed bodies of water (lakes) and some other specified areas.

http://www.epa.gov/owow/oceans/regulatory/vessel_sewage/vsdnozone.html

There is no holding tank on our boat now. The system flushes so clean the hoses stay odor free. We stay out as long as our ice lasts: six days... not how long the 15 gallon tank will last us. The Purasan treatment unit isn't much bigger than a single group 27 battery box.

Low flow heads are a plus with a holding tank system. But if you use a Purasan the more water you flush through the system the sweeter it runs. Since you are flushing with an unlimited amount of sea water (any water from outside the boat) through the Purasan and overboard there is no need to conserve water or use an expensive vacuum-type head.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Vic Willman

Do they charge extra if you "help" them? [:-bonc01][:-bonc01]

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Many people do.

He said he would do the job with a helper and since I seemed to know what I was doing, I could be the helper.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Vic Willman

As long as you're along the Atlantic coast or one of the tributaries leading to the ocean (not on a land-locked lake, or way up a river), you'd be a prime candidate for a treatment system, rather than a small holding tank. That's the direction I'd look in.

http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/purasan/L405v0804.pdf
http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/electroscan/L340electroscan0805.pdf
http://www.boatfix.com/elec/rartoi.asp

Click to expand...


Vic, do you have a link explaing how these systems work and the dimensions of the components?

What will my marina neighbors think of this?
 
In addition to the Fed EPA laws I listed above, local laws may apply in marinas (but nowhere else).

In my part of CA local law prohibits use of a Type 1 system in a marina where a restroom is available. We have nice restrooms at the marina, so I have no need to use the Purasan at the slip. You can always have a Y-valve set-up that routes your head from the Type 1 to a tank system and use the tank at the marina like you did before.

If you can use a Type 1 system legally in a marina and have a below the waterline thu-hull for discharge no one will be able to see or smell the Type 1 flushing.

That's not the case when I notice illegal discharges from non-Type 1 tank systems at the marinas, which I have witnessed on numerous occasions at several locations. That's a filthy practice that looks as bad as it smells.

You can download the complete owners manuals for the Purasan and Electroscan systems here. Those will have every detail you could possibly need. I bought my Purasan from BoatFix several years ago.

http://www.raritaneng.com/products/waste_treatment/index.html

Here is how the Purasan works. When you flush the head some of the fresh flush water (not water in the bowl) runs up a vinyl tube to the disinfectant tablet dispenser. This water mixes with the tablets at a metered rate and runs back down into the Purasan treatment unit.

The treatment unit (the main blue box) has two chambers. The disinfectant is added to the waste in the first chamber and macerated. The next time you flush that treated waste moves into the second chamber where it gets mixed again. The third time you flush that treated waste gets pushed out of the second chamber, through the discharge hose, the vented loop and finally out of the thru-hull.

So, every time you flush, the Purasan moves new untreated waste into the system and pushes treated waste out through the thru-hull.

The actual treated waste discharge looks like cloudy water which disappears about as soon as it leaves the boat. I have a below the waterline discharge thru-hull and have never actually seen the discharge in four years of use. I've looked, but I never have seen or smelled anything.

Several of my friends have Lectra-San, which is the first version of the current Electro Scan. It looks a lot like the Purasan but it's a completely different unit that uses salt water and electrodes to disinfect the waste. The rest of the way Electro Scan operates is pretty much the same as Purasan.
 
Ron, in the first two links I sent, they are the Owner's Manuals for each of the two products. They tell how each one works in the text.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Vic Willman

Ron, in the first two links I sent, they are the Owner's Manuals for each of the two products. They tell how each one works in the text.

Click to expand...


Thanks, that will explain it.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Vic Willman

Ron, in the first two links I sent, they are the Owner's Manuals for each of the two products. They tell how each one works in the text.
Click to expand...


It looks like the ELECTRO SCAN might just fill the bill here. And at less expense than a Vacuflush system.

Three questions:
Will it work with my existing Jabsco manual head (the cheap one)?

My discharge through hull is above the waterline (yea, I know). Will it work with this?
or -
Can I run the discharge into my existing holding tank and pump it overboard when convenient (and away from the marina)?
 
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