How can boat sharing programs be legal?

PascalG

PascalG

Moderator
Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2003
RO Number
12212
Messages
12,214
Lately a number of new sites / services have been launched or advertised offering ride sharing for boats in a somewhat similar manner as Uber for cars. Sailo, boatsetters, Captainscash (don't you love the name...)

I just don't see how such programs can not be in violation of USCG rules...

Basically owners list their boat and take people for a few hours or a day on the water. For small boats if no captain is provided that's fine (if you re willing to let strangers use your boat...)

Where the line appears to be crossed is that they offer the option of using UNLICENSED captains...

FOr instance, Sailo.com specifically states "If you are an experienced sailor and can operate a boat independently, you may not necessarily need a USCG license! But if you are registering yourself as a Captain, a USCG license can go a long way at proving your credibility!"

What am I missing?
 
Boat bound is another. I don't get it and I don't get who in their right mind would do this.
I am pretty experienced at handling my own boat but put me on a strange boat and it will take a few trips before I am comfortable.
Then there is the safety factor. Any moron can say he can drive a boat, we have all seen it. Guy buys a boat and can't dock for crap.

I am not sure if marinas can enforce it but I would like to see a rule in mine that says its against marina policy to hire out your boat from our marina.
I just hate to see some newbie docking in the wind. It's bad enough we have owners that can't dock.
 
U
quote:
Originally posted by CurrentSea

Boat bound is another. I don't get it and I don't get who in their right mind would do this.
I am pretty experienced at handling my own boat but put me on a strange boat and it will take a few trips before I am comfortable.
Then there is the safety factor. Any moron can say he can drive a boat, we have all seen it. Guy buys a boat and can't dock for crap.

I am not sure if marinas can enforce it but I would like to see a rule in mine that says its against marina policy to hire out your boat from our marina.
I just hate to see some newbie docking in the wind. It's bad enough we have owners that can't dock.

Click to expand...


Check your documents. They may prevent commercial enterprises. Ours does. If you run a fishing charter you need to be on the commercial docks.

As to the original question, theses guys don't care about rules and regulations.
 
Not to go off on a tangent, but an OUPV or even a 100 ton proves credibility, on its own, only to the very naive nowadays. Thanks to the proliferation of the "push, pull or drag, pass out test guaranteed or your money back, this weekend only, we'll even hold your hand while you gundeck your paperwork, no reasonable offer refused" paper mills, those licenses mean squat as far as credibility and experience.
 
I don't see the issue. At least with Sailo. You can charter boats either bareboat if you're qualified or with a captain if you're not. Pretty standard stuff. And many of the boats listed indicate captained only. None of it sounds any different to how charters have been run for years and years.

If the insurance is in place to allow an owner to charter his boat, what I'm I missing?
 
Mike you are absolutely right but unfortunately it is the USCG who fails to regulate licensing. I often see charter boats with captains proudly wearing four stripes on their shoulders failing to set their dman anchor!

Bill, the problem is that these sites state that no license is necessAry to "captain" what is basically a charter boat. See the quote I posted from Sailo.

See the FAQ page from http://captainscash.com/faq/

It s basically saying that if you have a boat, a drivers license and insurance, you can take paying passengers...
 
I strongly agree with both Pascal and Mike.
This smells blatantly illegal, even though the captains'-mill "6-Pack" certificate itself means relatively little these days without the true experience and the real-life knowledge and savvy that experience tends to support.

Does the unlicensed captain and boat owner bear all the liability during these charters?
And what vessel insurance policy covers a recreational boat or unlicensed/permitted operator while operating commercially and cover his paying passengers? Can one get commercial liability coverage if not appropriately licensed for chartering??

I guess a lot of similar questions are being asked of the quickly-expanding Uber system after which the boating scheme is modeled . I think some towns are starting to require commercial licensing and other add'l requirements of the ubers to help level the playing field.

I admit I know nothing about this boat-sharing concept. If it was really just a way for boat owners to generously get together with others who would like to enjoy time on the water , and no profit and zero requirement for payment of actual expenses was involved , and passengers clearly assume their own liability , that's a different story.

(Disclaimer: I don't charter or have a USCG license. Or drive or have a cab.)
 
People tried the same thing with airplanes, and the FAA ruled it is for hire operations and shut it down.
 
From Pascal's Captain Cash's faq link...

"Q?
WHAT IF MY INSURANCE WILL NOT ALLOW FOR PAID RIDERS?
A.
We understand some insurance companies have a clause prohibiting paid fares. If you contact our customer service center they can recommend insurance companies that do not have this clause."

I would like to see the fine print disclaimers in these recommended insurers policy's.
 
Sailo seems like a straight forward bareboat or captain charter service to me.

CaptainsCash I'm not so sure about. Although they do say this at the end of their FAQ page:
"Q?
DO I NEED TRAINING AND CERTIFICATION TO GIVE RIDES?
A.
Safety and training education requirements vary by country and state to state. In the USA you can view your state requirements by visiting BoatUs’ State Educational Requirements, which outlines what safety courses and licenses are needed in each state."

The implication is you "may" need a captains license.

If people really are running boats from hire taking people out for pay without the proper license, I'm guessing it will be shut down soon. Unless they are running everything as demise charters. Then they might skirt the license issue if all their ducks are in a row.
 
On a similar note, I had to call USAA insurance Co. today for a fender-bender claim. The very first thing they asked me was if I used my car for Uber or other ride share programs. I think the insurance co's are very up to date on this kind of stuff.
 
quote:
Originally posted by PascalG

Mike you are absolutely right but unfortunately it is the USCG who fails to regulate licensing. I often see charter boats with captains proudly wearing four stripes on their shoulders failing to set their dman anchor!

Click to expand...


I agree. Fortunately where the licensing gives, the industry takes, and any professional outfit will scrutinize a resume.

You know what's funny? Some of the best, most skilled professional boat operators I know don't have merchant licenses. (To me, that just validates my feelings that there is little correlation between a lower level license, and experience or competence. I don't think my own ticket has even left my desk since I renewed, and I'm almost up for renewal again!)
 
quote:
Originally posted by PascalG

Bill, the problem is that these sites state that no license is necessAry to "captain" what is basically a charter boat. See the quote I posted from Sailo.

Click to expand...


Sailo seems to be just putting boat owners together with either licensed captain to charter out their boat or together with non-license people who want to rent the boats bareboat.

As to the statement you quoted, to me that just reads that if you want to rent a boat bareboat from an owner, having a captain's license increases you credibility with the owner of the boat. And may increase your chances of being able to rent that boat bareboat.
 
When operating in US waters - taking passengers, at least one of which is a passenger for hire (that is, has paid for the ride), 46 CFR 15 requires the Master of the vessel to have a valid USCG license. The type of license is dictated by number of passengers and size of vessel. period.

Technically speaking, if you take your buddies fishing, and you require them to give $$$ for gas . . . yup.
 
That's how it reads. But the only ones who use to interpret it that way we're insurance companies as far as I know. And from what I have come to understand, they have backed off on that strict interpretation of the rule.
 
I too have read that splitting the costs or providing lunch is no longer considered a violation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top