Inverter..do it yourself job???
- Thread starter Waynepj4
- Start date
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- Mar 4, 2009
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- 31091
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- 18
I went with the Magnum 2012 2,000 watt inverter with the 100 amp smart charger (wanted to upgrade the charger as I swapped out the old 12 volts with 4 golf cart batteries..) also added the battery monitor kit and remote display. As FindME states above, there's a lot of costs with going with a decent set up, including an emergency by pass switch in the event something happens to the automatic switching (from dock side power to inverter). His prices quoted above are nearly bang on.
Can't wait to see how this all works! can't launch for another couple of weeks.
As for the question "DIY", my setup is not something I would have considered, far too involved, and too much invested in my boat to want to screw things up. I can handle the plug in kind, get beyond one wire and I'll have a professional do it....
Perhaps but from other posts it seems like you can have a nice inverter set up for about half the cost findme is talking about. Based on my weekend boating needs I think a basic inverter and a few house batts is all I need. Batt monitoring would be nice as well so I can keep tabs on how much juice I've used.
A new charger is more of a nice to have vs. a must have since I already have a batt charger that works.
The essentials ie inverter, extra house batt, cables and labor are relatively inexpensive.
The nice to haves: golf cart batts, new charger, batt monitor, emergency switch in case auto switch fails..those are all nice to haves that drive up the costs.
A new charger is more of a nice to have vs. a must have since I already have a batt charger that works.
The essentials ie inverter, extra house batt, cables and labor are relatively inexpensive.
The nice to haves: golf cart batts, new charger, batt monitor, emergency switch in case auto switch fails..those are all nice to haves that drive up the costs.
THe marine electrician noted that I have 2 24v batts and one 12v batt. He's saying I need to buy 2 new, 12v batts because 24v batts SHOULD be incompatible with my electical set up and appliances. Is this true? My boat, lights, appliances and so forth have been fine. Thoughts?
Wayne,
I would do some simple Internet research to familiarize yourself with the basics of a boat electrical system so that you can speak intelligently and determine the technician's intelligence. You can determine the voltage of your batteries by counting the number of cells(fill caps). Each cell should be two volts. In other words a 12v battery will have six caps. I sincerely doubt that you have 24v batteries in your system and I would run not walk away from that "electrician". I know that you are always trying to do things economically, but against good advice, you had a Detailer do your engine service when you purchased this boat to save a few bucks. After watching your frustration with your engines on other threads, I think I'm safe in saying that that decision didn't work out too well. Find yourself a good, quality and reputable MARINE electrician and spend the money to do it right or don't do it. You and your family's safety are not worth the few bucks you'll save.
It isn't that complicated a job, but you want it done right the first time, not corrected after the fire.
I would do some simple Internet research to familiarize yourself with the basics of a boat electrical system so that you can speak intelligently and determine the technician's intelligence. You can determine the voltage of your batteries by counting the number of cells(fill caps). Each cell should be two volts. In other words a 12v battery will have six caps. I sincerely doubt that you have 24v batteries in your system and I would run not walk away from that "electrician". I know that you are always trying to do things economically, but against good advice, you had a Detailer do your engine service when you purchased this boat to save a few bucks. After watching your frustration with your engines on other threads, I think I'm safe in saying that that decision didn't work out too well. Find yourself a good, quality and reputable MARINE electrician and spend the money to do it right or don't do it. You and your family's safety are not worth the few bucks you'll save.
It isn't that complicated a job, but you want it done right the first time, not corrected after the fire.
It is not likely (but it is possible) that you have a pair of 24 volt batteries on your boat. If you have a twin engine boat, it is quite likely that you have a pair of Group 24 starting batteries. These are the most common 12 volt starting battery you can find in a boat.
24 volt batteries are used on large trolling motors. Large industrial 24 volt batteries are used in large battery banks. I doube you have either. Take some pics of your batteries (and your charger) and post them.
On the other hand, if your guy is a professional electrician, who comes highly recommended by other boaters or boat yards, my hat is off to him for bringing this to your attention. But frankly, it doesn't make any sense. If you have 24 volt batteries, you must a 24 volt charger, and a 24 volt load.
24 volt batteries are used on large trolling motors. Large industrial 24 volt batteries are used in large battery banks. I doube you have either. Take some pics of your batteries (and your charger) and post them.
On the other hand, if your guy is a professional electrician, who comes highly recommended by other boaters or boat yards, my hat is off to him for bringing this to your attention. But frankly, it doesn't make any sense. If you have 24 volt batteries, you must a 24 volt charger, and a 24 volt load.
My recommandation: Get 2 solar panels ea. 50 watts, (about 1000 $ and an inverter for 500 $. Try to get one with an automatic fuse. So when you try to boil coffee while watching TV, the fuse may switch off the power. But, frankly, you don't like to use all of your 120 V equipment at once, you are at the boat, you will adjust to the basic things of life! Enjoy!
Waynepj, You have a Bayliner express cruiser? I've never seen or heard of one with 24 volt systems or batteries, perhaps something was lost in translation? I would expect you to currently have 2-3 combination starting/deep cycle 12 volt batteries, none of which are real deep cycle type such as a pair of golf cart 6v batteries or AGM style. Here is where you really need to know what you have. IF you don't know perhaps someone could help show you and help educate you. I know you don't want to work on your boat but you need to know what you have or else you might as well just throw yourself to the wolves and see who eats up your boating fund.
Do you remember what boat stands for? BOAT= Break Out Another Thousand
There are lot of hungry mechanics around and some who are less than scruples'
Do you remember what boat stands for? BOAT= Break Out Another Thousand
There are lot of hungry mechanics around and some who are less than scruples'
Wayne
Here is a good read: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc.../10001/Selecting-a-Marine-Storage-Battery.htm
Here is a good read: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc.../10001/Selecting-a-Marine-Storage-Battery.htm
I purchased the batts shortly after I bought the boat. It's possible that I accidently bought 24v batts. I just looked for deep cycle batts and one starting batt and focused on cold cranking amps. Maybe I bought the wrong batteries.
Im still a fairly new boat owner and still learning so pardon my not so nautical questions.
Wayne,
FindMe is probably right. 24V batteries are unusual, you probably purchased Group 24 batteries which are a 12 V battery. "Group" type determines the batteries physical dimensions and Group 24 are very common starting batteries. Questions are always welcome and it is often said that the only dumb question is the one not asked.
FindMe is probably right. 24V batteries are unusual, you probably purchased Group 24 batteries which are a 12 V battery. "Group" type determines the batteries physical dimensions and Group 24 are very common starting batteries. Questions are always welcome and it is often said that the only dumb question is the one not asked.
Group 24 batteries are among the smallest batteries you can buy for marine batts. If you're building a battery bank for inverter use, there are much better options that will not cost much more in the long run, but will give you more amp-hrs. Depending on your available space, I would give serious consideration to Trojan T-105 (lead-acid), T125 (lead-acid), 6V-AGM Golf Cart or Lifeline AGM. Battery quality matters.
"I purchased the batts shortly after I bought the boat. It's possible that I accidently bought 24v batts. I just looked for deep cycle batts and one starting batt and focused on cold cranking amps. Maybe I bought the wrong batteries. "
When's the last time ANYONE has seen 24v batteries IN STOCK at a marine store, auto store, or Big Box? I NEVER have. So I very much doubt they are 24v batteries. Possibly 2-12v incorrectly hooked up in series, but 2-24v, well nigh impossible under the circumstances. Also reports no problems with the system; a 24v battery in a 12v system would have caused all sorts of problems.
So I have to question the "electrician".
When's the last time ANYONE has seen 24v batteries IN STOCK at a marine store, auto store, or Big Box? I NEVER have. So I very much doubt they are 24v batteries. Possibly 2-12v incorrectly hooked up in series, but 2-24v, well nigh impossible under the circumstances. Also reports no problems with the system; a 24v battery in a 12v system would have caused all sorts of problems.
So I have to question the "electrician".
Oh, I didn't know you bought the batteries. stmbtwle hit it on the head. You couldn't have bought 24 volt batteries by accident if you wanted to. And he is being kind saying they would have caused all sorts of problems. They would have killed everything deader than fried chicken.
You bought Group 24 starting batteries, and they are the perfect choice for starting gasoline V-8 motors.
I think we have covered the question about whether this is a good do-it-yourself project for you.
At this point, and thanks to this forum, your knowledge on this subject is volumous compared to at least one marine electrician. But hey, there are plenty more just like him.
Now do yourself the slightest favor. Stop by a Radio Shack store, and get a digital volt meter. I'm guessing they are less than 20 bucks, and you'll learn how to use it right here.
Now in review:
You want 300 amp hours of battery. That is a modest request. That is three Group 31's, wired in parallel
If you use Flooded lead (cheap) or Absorbed glass mat ($$$) batteries, you can charge your new battery bank with a conventional charger. A 20 amp charger is do the job just well, but a 30 amp charger will charge the bank overnight. If you use glass mat batteries, you can put protectors over the terminals, and stuff them somewhere quiet. If you use flooded lead, you will have to put them in a box, vented overboard. Acid fumes explode.
Your 2,000 watt inverter will drain your new bank in an hour and a half at full load, give or take.
If you want your existing 120v outlets to be powered by this bank, you will need an inverter with an automatic crossover switch. Sine wave power is quieter and cooler than "modified sine-wave" power. All cost effective inverters are modified sine wave. What ever you get, follow the instructions to the "T". Everything they call for is an absolute requirement. Honest. Things that are optional will be under a section called "Options".
You see where I am going with this. Your new Magnum Energy unit will break the bank, but is Pure sine wave, has an automatic crossover switch, a very powerful charger built in. You can keep adding batteries to the bank until you can make it through the weekend, or run out of storage. I think West Marine will arrainge an electrician for you.
You bought Group 24 starting batteries, and they are the perfect choice for starting gasoline V-8 motors.
I think we have covered the question about whether this is a good do-it-yourself project for you.
At this point, and thanks to this forum, your knowledge on this subject is volumous compared to at least one marine electrician. But hey, there are plenty more just like him.
Now do yourself the slightest favor. Stop by a Radio Shack store, and get a digital volt meter. I'm guessing they are less than 20 bucks, and you'll learn how to use it right here.
Now in review:
You want 300 amp hours of battery. That is a modest request. That is three Group 31's, wired in parallel
If you use Flooded lead (cheap) or Absorbed glass mat ($$$) batteries, you can charge your new battery bank with a conventional charger. A 20 amp charger is do the job just well, but a 30 amp charger will charge the bank overnight. If you use glass mat batteries, you can put protectors over the terminals, and stuff them somewhere quiet. If you use flooded lead, you will have to put them in a box, vented overboard. Acid fumes explode.
Your 2,000 watt inverter will drain your new bank in an hour and a half at full load, give or take.
If you want your existing 120v outlets to be powered by this bank, you will need an inverter with an automatic crossover switch. Sine wave power is quieter and cooler than "modified sine-wave" power. All cost effective inverters are modified sine wave. What ever you get, follow the instructions to the "T". Everything they call for is an absolute requirement. Honest. Things that are optional will be under a section called "Options".
You see where I am going with this. Your new Magnum Energy unit will break the bank, but is Pure sine wave, has an automatic crossover switch, a very powerful charger built in. You can keep adding batteries to the bank until you can make it through the weekend, or run out of storage. I think West Marine will arrainge an electrician for you.
As you already have a charger, to be honest if that fancy inverter/charger hasn't been installed yet I'd take it back and get one a whole lot less sophisticated (not to mention less expensive and easier to install).
A 1800w basic modified-sine-wave inverter can be had for about $300, two extra batteries for $200, and (maybe) a battery combiner for $100. So far you're down $600 plus installation which should be a darn sight less than the $950 quoted.
This basic system would not require surgery to the boat's existing AC system at all, but would have it's own circuit, which COULD be as simple as a heavy-duty extension cord (though personally I'd install a dedicated line with outlets in convenient places).
With the battery combiner, the EXISTING charger will charge the inverter batteries whenever it's on and charging everything else. You'll also be able to charge them while running the engine, which is not an option with the inverter/charger.
The hardest part of the whole installation would be finding a place for those batteries (Make sure you have room for more if you want them).
A 1800w basic modified-sine-wave inverter can be had for about $300, two extra batteries for $200, and (maybe) a battery combiner for $100. So far you're down $600 plus installation which should be a darn sight less than the $950 quoted.
This basic system would not require surgery to the boat's existing AC system at all, but would have it's own circuit, which COULD be as simple as a heavy-duty extension cord (though personally I'd install a dedicated line with outlets in convenient places).
With the battery combiner, the EXISTING charger will charge the inverter batteries whenever it's on and charging everything else. You'll also be able to charge them while running the engine, which is not an option with the inverter/charger.
The hardest part of the whole installation would be finding a place for those batteries (Make sure you have room for more if you want them).
The inverter charger has a 40 amp charger. I'm going to get q volt meter and confirm whether or nt my batts are 24v or 12v. Are you sure my batts won't charge when the engine is running with an inverter/charger set up? That doesn't sound like a very smart system. No clue why they'd build inverters like that if batts don't charge while you're underway. are you sure about this? The electrician, beek boats who is a knowledgeable boater who sailed around the world seems to indicate that I could always run my engines if I wanted to charge my batts and away from shore power.