Leaving a dock

Gnarley

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exMember
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Mar 7, 2002
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7774
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I would appreciate a better understanding of undocking procedures when leaving a raft up or leaving a dock where other boats are still tied up.

When undocking and there are 2 people working the boat who is in charge?

While under power is the captain the authority on the boat?

If while undocking and the captain cannot communicate easily with the deckhand and the deckhand is working with help on the dock who should be giving orders, the deckhand or the helper/helpers on the dock?

When undocking should a procedure be followed with how lines and fenders are untied, fastened and stowed and what order so as to make it routine so that the deckhand needn't ask any questions because the procedure is scripted?

These shouldn't be censored!
 
the captain is always in charge, as well as responsible for his vessel, the damage it can cause other boats, and the safety of those aboard.

there are wireless headsets to keep captain and deckhands in touch when needed. before approaching or leaving, the captain should tel the deckhands (as well as passengers) what to do and what not to do. having a passenger try to help can put himself (or herself) in danger.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Skeetobite

In all instances: The captain and there's only one per vessel.






Can you send an email regarding that point to my wife? :D
 
I would appreciate a better understanding of undocking procedures when leaving a raft up or leaving a dock where other boats are still tied up.

"When undocking and there are 2 people working the boat who is in charge?"
The Captain

While under power is the captain the authority on the boat?
Who else would be? [:-scared]

"If while undocking and the captain cannot communicate easily with the deckhand and the deckhand is working with help on the dock who should be giving orders, the deckhand or the helper/helpers on the dock?"
The Captain of the vessel is the only person who should be "giving orders". Unless this is a trick question, or I am missing some part of the equation, based on the size of your boats, communication should not be an issue.

"When undocking should a procedure be followed with how lines and fenders are untied, fastened and stowed and what order so as to make it routine so that the deckhand needn’t ask any questions because the procedure is scripted?"
Yes. My crew and I go through the same procedure whenever we leave or return to our slip, (unless some unforseen condition arises). The only communication that is needed is when she tells me that she is stepping off onto the dock.

Based on your low R.O. #, I would assume that you already know the answer to these questions, and possibly are not telling the whole story.
 
I suspect a trick question, and will wait for the punch line.

It is the Captain who is a) responsible and b) gives the orders.

Docking procedure is whatever the Captain says it is.
 
quote:

Originally posted by PeteMrrs

"If while undocking and the captain cannot communicate easily with the deckhand and the deckhand is working with help on the dock who should be giving orders, the deckhand or the helper/helpers on the dock?"
The Captain of the vessel is the only person who should be "giving orders". Unless this is a trick question, or I am missing some part of the equation, based on the size of your boats, communication should not be an issue.

Based on your low R.O. #, I would assume that you already know the answer to these questions, and possibly are not telling the whole story.






This is NOT a trick question and I hope to even learn a bit more from it or help a few others that may have similar communication or procedural problems.

I believe I know these answers and hope I to improve on how we handle our docking. However there is another half that seems to be having difficulty and I want to clarify and get a consensus as I do not know it all! Please note that in most cases we do not need wireless headsets and they also can have problems so in the event of a failure we would still need to return to basic communication or procedures.

When we are about to depart a dock and I am at the helm and have given her instructions she gives in to others on the dock every time when they are available to help her. She believes their decisions override hers or mine as previously discussed since she believes their years of experience or willingness to help outweigh our procedure. I have stated that she needs to let them know the intention and then direct them accordingly regardless of age or experience. I have stated to tell them what she needs and direct them not to let them order her around, it is our boat and our procedure.
 
You should always have a plan when approaching the dock or leaving. Those who are assisting should adhere to that plan, especially if out of contact with the helm ( Captain ), because the helm is making actions based on completion of the procedure as previously discussed.

You can always ignore any comments from the "peanut gallery" ( ie: those on the dock ) simply because, if their advice causes you to sink, they are still on the dock and you are still on the ( now sinking ) boat.

If the dockside assistance offers help contrary to the procedure, tell them , "Thank you, but we have it under control", and refuse their help.

There is always only one authority on board: the Captain. There are no exceptions to this.

If communication is an issue, resolve it. wireless, VOX headsets are available at a reasonable price.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Radioactive

You can always ignore any comments from the "peanut gallery" ( ie: those on the dock )
If the dockside assistance offers help contrary to the procedure, tell them , "Thank you, but we have it under control", and refuse their help.






The problem with the "peanut gallery" is my wife believes she should listen to them when they are the one's untying the dock lines helping and she is onboard ready to receive them. I have stated to leave fenders down until clear of any and all possible hazards, the "peanut gallery" tells her to pull them up before we depart, and then she goes along with their suggestions, not our procedure. This happens repeatedly and then a heated disagreement ensues.

So Buckaroo Bonzai there ya are!
 
One "work-around" is to prepare your lines prior to undock so that one end of the line is fixed to a boat cleat, then it goes to a dock fixture ( around piling/around cleat ) then back to the boat, to be held by hand( , or temporarily cleated ). The undock may proceed without dockside assistance, and the on board line handler may retrieve the line without assistance, by releasing the loose ( or temporarily cleated ) end and pulling on the other.

You might make it easier for the line handler to allow the fenders to remain in place, if you explain why you wish to do so ( I agree, btw. Leave them in place till after you depart ).

( This is how I undock when single-handing my boat ). No assistance required, nor desired. )

There is noting I can do, however, if your line handler will not follow instructions. In this case, I suggest that the Captain "consider it a challenge". ;)
 
I guess it is the assistance from the "peanut gallery" she has trouble standing up to and I am trying to figure out how to give her the courage to let them know what she wants them to do.

I could give her the helm but she is not capable of maneuvering well in tight quarters so I think asking the dock help to untie and toss her the lines is the best option to keep her safe and once clear of the docks and in the open we can then safely retrieves fenders and stow the lines.

Isn't there something somewhere that covers the how-to's of docking and what to do in these situations? I'm sure I'm not the only one to ever have some difficulties in this area.
 
"Isn't there something somewhere that covers the how-to's of docking" -- Gnarley

Chapman Piloting & Seamanship
 
You don't need boating advice, you need leadership advice and inreased confidence in your own abilities.

A king is a king, except in his own home and with his own family.

You need to go to the source. If other people are telling your wife what to do, you need to go directly to the good samaritans and set things straight. Tell them politely, but directly that while you appreciate their willingness to please that you need them to stop giving your wife directions counter to your own. Often, the friendly advice is coming to fill a vacuum. Meaning that if they understood your plan prior to putting it in execution, that they would not being giving her conflicting advice. They may well disagree with your approach. It's up to you whether you want to consider the help they are offering or give them a polite "thank you, but maybe next time". Do it firmly and politely. The polite part is not optional. If you blow up, you give up your control of the situation. If you do accept advice, don't also give up control. Repeat the advice, but as your own orders and be specific about what, who and when. Give separate instructions for each player. You will retain your control and show that you understood the advice. Get agreement from the players individually before starting execution. The moment somebody starts doing something undirected, NICELY call them BY NAME. You must do it immediately and confidently and use a tone to get their attention NOW. Be nice. Stand where you can be heard and project quick and concise orders without sounding rushed. Rarely do you need to be immediately at the controls when throwing lines and a walk from the side of the boat to your shifter controls should not be too far. If you have canvas getting in the way or other barriers that makes this impossible, then invest in a solution to correct the problem. You can't run a boat without access to see and bark quick orders to bystanders. That's a fatal design flaw if you have one. If you have only a two second walk to your vantage point and that is not sufficient, then brush up on your skills.

Square your shoulders, smile but give no quarter. Somewhere your body language is betraying you. If you don't want any assistance, be sure to call all potential parties together ahead of time and politely let them know. If you want some assistance, tell them exactly what you want them to do. Confusion does not happen when discussed ahead of time. If you have confidence you will not offend, but if you are uncertain deep down you will only come across as a defensive dog biter. A defensive dog biter aggressively and prematurely bites because he is scared, not because he is angry.

You may also want to beef up on your practice and gain the confidence that fills the vacuum that currently exists. You can't BS your wife and there is a reason why she currently lacks confidence in your abilities. She's wrong to try to let someone else be captain, but its not her fault that the situation exists in the first place. The worst thing you could try to do about it though is to fight your wife from shaky ground. That's the best way to bring out the worst in ourselves.

Hope you can deal with the direct tone. Sugar coating is not one of my strong suits.

P.S. If you ever have a plan, but the plan changes as it is typical to do when dealing with something you can't control such as mother nature, be ready to bark orders immediately in rapid fire way. Dream up a list of things that might need to be done and be ready with orders, any orders. If there is one thing that will cause your crew to find new and creative ways to mess you up, its when you go silent while trying to figure out your next move. That's the exact moment when you need to start barking orders to your crew to get them busy. A busy crew does not have time to come up with their own plans of action and a boat can only have one captain, even if its a bad one. It's best if the orders you give can have some benefit, but busy you must make them. Here's a gem "I need you to stand on the Port Stern and start calling out distances every 5 seconds. Don't throw any line until I tell you". The distances might not serve any real purpose at all, but they won't hurt either and women are naturally genetically inclined to ignore the best advice in the world when they themselves are in a position to both talk and be heard (or think so).
 
There are a lot of words being written here. I guess they are all good advise, but I am not sure that any have hit the root cause.

I think that your wife just does not want to say no to any of the people helping. Some people are just that way. They think they are being disagreeable or negative.

In a very nice and lovingly (is that a word?) way you need to make your wife understand that you want to do it your way.

In the end, does it really matter on a 29' boat as long as the procedure is accomplished safely? Do you really have it in hand regardless of how the procedure is accomplished. If it all works out OK then just avoid any arguments with your wife and proceed to have a good day boating.

George
 
The Captain of the vessel is always in charge, regardless the circumstance. There' plenty of case law pointing to this. "Honest Mr. Coast Guard, I wanted to handle it differently, but the peanut gallery said to do it like that". This dog won't hunt.

Control your destiny. Control your boat. Control your crew. Keep your dock lines on the boat and pass the eye splice to the helpful dock hands, telling them to loop it on a cleat, then you adjust the lines from the boat. Don't be shy about saying (or yelling) "no thanks" or "we've got it, thanks" as appropriate.

Finally, make sure everyone understands their specific roles and what to do when. I've never struck a dock, but that opportunity is always one approach away. Read the wind, current and traffic. Discuss this with whomever is handling the lines prior to your approach. Be consistent with this and eventually everyone will understand their place. Regardless the outcome (good or bad) I know my wife will always take my direction over that of a complete stranger. I never yell at her because I may want some sugar later.
 
For time immemorial, ship captains have exercised absolute authority at sea. Consequently, early insurance writs -- agreements with ship owners and passengers and the Board of Trade -- dubbed them "Master Under God."
 
Boating is meant to be a fun family/friend experience and as with any family environment there has to be give and take. There's always more than one way to skin a cat, as long as there is no immediate danger of injury or property damage, I will do my best not to criticize my mate. There are times when suggestions/instructions can be made/given but it's not good to dwell on them. Hell, I make just as many bad judgments (in her mind) as she does, and I probably do. We've been married for 45 years and boating for every one of them, rest assured, we've had our differences but life is too short to be criticizing each other’s every move. Just get the job done always taking care not to hurt anybody or damage any property, the boaters you are with mean well, thank them and move on.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Gnarley

I guess it is the assistance from the "peanut gallery" she has trouble standing up to and I am trying to figure out how to give her the courage to let them know what she wants them to do.

I could give her the helm but she is not capable of maneuvering well in tight quarters so I think asking the dock help to untie and toss her the lines is the best option to keep her safe and once clear of the docks and in the open we can then safely retrieves fenders and stow the lines.

Isn't there something somewhere that covers the how-to's of docking and what to do in these situations? I'm sure I'm not the only one to ever have some difficulties in this area.






Actually, from my point of view, it seems that you are the one having trouble standing up to the "Peanut Gallery".

First, why are you letting others un-tie the lines and hand them to your wife on board?

Second, if you are utilizing help from slip neighbors, it is your job, as Captain, to make sure they know exactly what you want them to do. Seems like you are telling your wife, and assuming that she is passing the info on to them.

You need to take charge, tell them "This is how we are leaving, untie this line, then that line and we are out of here."

Also, you can always politely decline the help from the "Peanut Gallery". A simple - "Thanks for the offer, but we should be all set, we have a system that works well for us"

There is one Captain on a ship, and one chef in the kitchen.

The issue here is not your wife - it is you.
 
The Captain is in charge of the boat and everything having to do with its handling and operation, the Admiral is in charge of everything not boat releated. [8D]
 
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